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 jon_at_pof
Joined: 10/19/2006
Msg: 251
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characteristics of a sociopath/psychopathPage 11 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
Forget "diagnosing". That's not the point.

The point of the thread, as I've read it, is to

a) familiarize people with the existence of these predators.
b) get people out of the "I can fix him/her" mentality (cause you can't)
c) get them to maybe take the first step away from an abusive relationship
d) spot the warning signs to avoid getting into an abusive relationship.

I don't know why people are getting so awfully offended and defensive.

It's as if anything mentioned in a psychology textbook is off-limits until someone reanimates Sigmund Freud's corpse and he starts posting to clarify it all.

From what I've read myself on the subject the info the OP was sufficiently accurate to qualify as sound, general advice.

If you're in an abusive relationship and trying to figure out the "why" of it, it might not be "that his mom just died" or "sometimes he feels really vulnerable and lashes out but doesn't really mean it." It might well be that he's a born predator who will never change and you need to make for the exits.
 xodara
Joined: 10/7/2006
Msg: 252
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 2/12/2007 11:50:49 AM
Great posts, Jon
 loopy
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 253
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 2/12/2007 2:08:07 PM
Thank you. i have found great comfort from this. i have just managed to extricate myself from an 8 year relationship with a man who has most if not all of the traits mentioned. i always thought i was at fault, that i didnt understand him and i clearly didnt. The manipulation was the worst because it is done so cleverly that you dont notice. on the surface and when he was sober he appeared to be the loveliest person. i thank god i am out of it. thank you so much.
 reddwoman
Joined: 2/8/2007
Msg: 254
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 2/18/2007 12:24:29 AM
I think the question here is are psychopaths born (nature) or are they created (nurture)....this will be forever debated in subsequent posts, no one knows the answer but I do want to clarify one thing.......a sociopath is a psychopath.....it's a continumm, with psychopath being the last on the continuum of anti-social disorders....the creepy thing about all anti-social disorders....is they have no emotion......emotion can be faked by them, but its all about playing games with them anyhow....but good news is....as they get older their behaviors become less severe...
 reddwoman
Joined: 2/8/2007
Msg: 255
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 2/18/2007 12:26:40 AM
to comment on Saddam Huessien being a psychopath, he wasn't, he actually had alzheimers disease which as we all know can result in bizzare behaviors, his sond started to run things so if you want to call him psycho, its his sons!!!
 PALEHORSERIDING
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 256
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 2/27/2007 11:13:15 AM
take away 16 15 14 9 13 10 17 and tweak number three depends on what I am doing period as I am ADHD and this is me period. but then again I am a diagnosed ADHD with sociopathich and narciistic tendencies
 Master_Bates
Joined: 2/10/2005
Msg: 257
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 2/28/2007 12:24:56 AM

you see a lot of politicians, talk show hosts, and religious leaders who fit the profile nicely.


Well, that would explain why there are so many wars and other negative crap in the world then, Machiavelli is kinda written like a handbook for that kind of person.

This thread is too long to read but I did read the first few and last bunch of posts, so maybe this has already been mentioned here. A friend of mine is a clinical psychologist and does work on fMRI scans. One of the insights from this is that the brain of a sociopath/psychopath there are emperical differences in brain activity from a normal(non psychopath) person. The scans show a lack of brain activity, not surprisingly, in the part of the brain that is thought to show empathy and compassion.

If it is in fact an organic brain disorder, I suppose that means that no amount of rehabilitation, therapy or anything else will "cure" these people, once a sociopath always a sociopath. Perhaps they can come up with some sort of drug, an antipsychopathant or something, or some sort of medical intervention perhaps. Short of that I don't think anything else will work.
 xodara
Joined: 10/7/2006
Msg: 258
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 2/28/2007 3:12:00 AM

but then again I am a diagnosed ADHD with sociopathich and narciistic tendencies


That's great self-promotion!

I hope you weren't really looking to meet someone on this site because, if you were, you just killed any chance of that!!
 PALEHORSERIDING
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 259
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 2/28/2007 1:18:48 PM
this site never worked for me as it is. I come here more for the forums then anything else.
 FOR U
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 260
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/2/2007 3:25:23 PM
Wow......justaguy. You should stop talking about my ex that way.
He would not appreciate everyone knowing. Hummm...after reading
this interesting thread I now understand more about human nature.
I just thought he was __________ flat line ! Thanks
 skunk12pu
Joined: 1/28/2006
Msg: 261
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History
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/2/2007 6:49:14 PM
OP:The Hare's Checklist would seem closer to reality...at least in my neck of the woods. But, I believe, we are all products of our environment. Society sets the benchmark of
good and evil,and civilizations, with their so called civility, makes policy and polices itself to make sure adherence is mandated. I would submit that neither path is the real answer but possibly a character flaw.
Good Grief!
Skunk
 whitesburgwade1
Joined: 4/20/2006
Msg: 262
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characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/6/2007 4:51:44 PM
I have voted for many of these people. I call them polititions
 whitesburgwade1
Joined: 4/20/2006
Msg: 263
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characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/6/2007 4:52:23 PM
I have voted for many of these people. I call them politicians......sp
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 264
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characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/6/2007 7:03:20 PM
I read an interesting article on psychopaths once. It speculated that 1% of the population were psychopaths.

One thing that was kind of neat, if you hook up a regular person to a machine that shocks you every 10 seconds, the person will anticipate the upcoming shock, grow nervous, increase heart rate, hairs stand on end, sweat, *ZAP* , relax a little, grow nervous...etc rinse and repeat
The psychopath just sits there. Pulse, breathing, sweating, etc doesn't change. They would probably be quite curious what the point of getting worked up about the jolt is...its not like getting nervous about it will stop it from zapping you again.

If a psycho witnessed a fatal car accident where one person died and one lived, they might closely watch how the survivor reacts to seeing their friend/family member die. In case the psycho loses someone close to them one day, it'll be useful to know how they should look to make it appear that they're all torn up about it.

No conscience. That'd be weird.
 MuseInspired45
Joined: 1/6/2007
Msg: 265
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/11/2007 1:51:44 AM
Hi everyone - I work as a domestic violence counsellor and have some experience of the consequences of sociopathic/psychopathic behaviours - and I guess my comments would include having an understanding of what it means to 'survive' any encounter with people of this nature. They are high manipulators and will use vulnerability as a way of gaining 'power'. Violence (in its many forms - social, financial, physical, emotional, legal and psychological) is a strategy for maintaining control and domination over the 'other' (victim/survivor). For me the psychobiosocial explanation is useful and is inclusive of all of what has been discussed in this forum - what is clear is that people are taken 'hostage' psychologically, supported by environmental and social norms (ie. the Cinderella story) and socialisations (ie. we need a partner in our life) and then gradually over time the sordid nature of sociopathic tendencies reveal themselves. The consequences are Stockholm Syndrome (surviving as paramount) and post traumatic stress - no one 'chooses' to be in aviolent relationship and often leaving can be significantly dangerous (the violence often escalates). I think we need to educate educate educate on the preindicators of potential violence (some of them are considered 'romantic'!!) and hence provide information and support rather than victim blaming..............Hope that's useful to the discussion The Muse
 OxDrover
Joined: 7/20/2006
Msg: 266
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/16/2007 10:25:53 AM
I would like to chime in on this thread. I'm a retired mental health professional, and I also am the biological child of a sociopath, and the mother of one. Fortuately, I did not inherit it, but there is no doubt that my son did. He fit's Hare's check list 100%. Fortunately my son is in prison where he can't hurt anyone in free society again. My biological father, because he was very wealthy has been able to live in free society and get away with the crimes he has committed.

Ted Bundy was very obviously a very successful sociopath because he was very charming and hid his crimes for a very long time. No one who worked with him or knew him socially would every have imagined he was one. Charlie Manson, on the other hand would not have been able to "charm" most "normal' people, but he did charm a segment of the population who were on the fringes anyway, and very lost and needy.

Many CEOs are Socipaths because they are willing to walk over the bodies and backs of co-workers, to without conscience do whatever is necessary to get what they want from others without regard to the consequences of others.

The science of genetics is now finding that many many mental illnesses that in the past were thought to be environmental have a strong STRONG genetic component. Personality DISORDERS however, are not "illness" per se. Talkk therapy is of no benefit because they see no need to change.

Hare summed it up best I think in his analogy of "They can learn the words to the song, but not the tune." They can learn to use the word "love" but have no concept of the EMOTION attached, or the behavioral nurturing that goes with it.

He also did some experiments with hooking soicopaths to an EEG, and exposing them to words that have high emotional meaning to norml people, such as love, cancer, etc. and where a "normal" control would h ave brain waves showing emotional responses to these words (braiin activity) the sociopath's was flat. The is also evidence that their brains are physically hooked up different.

They can, however "approximate" emotions with substituting adreniline rushes (which many times they get "hooked on") and anger. It is almost like they know they are "missing something" by not feeling the emotions others apparently do and feell some need to "feel something." But like a blind person can't see colors, or a deaf person hear music (except maybe the vibration of a beat or drum) the sociopath somehow feels some lack which they seek, but never find.

My own son scored in the top 1% on IQ tests, was given every opportunity (private schools when it stretched me as a single parent to provide them) and it wasn't until he started stealing at age 11 and even when caught RED HANDED denied what I ws looking at, denined denied and denied that I knew something was wrong. Counseling, counseling, and then after "fooling them"--into antisocial behaivor and more stealing, leading others to do his bidding, no remorse--even when arrested, deny deny.

I have worked with antisocial adelescents in mental health for many years, conduct disorder, and all the other names they put on these kids--the bottom line is the kid may know it is "wrong" to do,but they don't care. Consequences don't change them except when they are in a situation where they MUST behave. As soon as the handcuffs are removed, they are right back at it.

My son "becoming" the grandfather he had never seen (fortunately my mother divorced him when I was 3 months old and I didn't even meet him until I was adult) and even their handwriting, mannerisms, facial expressions, etc. are sooo very much alike, was the deepest hurt in my life. I still go to visit him in prison a few times a year (he is 800 miles away) and write him and send him a little commissary money, but in no way do I want to see him ever get out of prison.

During his time in prison he has learned and honed his "charming" skills and if you didn't know his patterns of repeated criminal and anti-social acts, the heneious things he has done totally without remorse, including killing a girl in cold blood, you would think he is the nicest, most charming, philosophical saint in the world.

There seems to be about 20% sociopaths in prison, and the rest have some "problems" but are not sociopathic, in the general population there is about 4%--that is still a scary number. Some, by virtue of social position, education, intellegence etc. manage to function in society without going to prison--either they don't get caught, or they just use their skills to get what they want without doing overt criminal behavior. However, in all social relationships they leave havoc, chaos and misery in their wake.

My son and my biological father are good examples. Both came from "good" homes in ones in which the morals of society were taught to them from birth, they had educational opportunites and intelligence well above average.

Many people who deal with them end the relationship wondering "What the hell happened?" They can't see a "motive" for why this person would treat them this way. Because as children we are led to believe that there is good in everyone, and to expect "fair" treatment from others we just "don't get it"--WHY would someone behave so utterly "mean?"-- because they do not value other humans as anything except a sub-human species to bleed for their own sustinence and pleasure.

For most people, avoiding dealing with the Charlie Mansons of this world is not too hard. (unless they break into your house at night) but avoiding the Ted Bundy's is much more difficult and they can "sneak up on you."

I have long ago come to terms with my son's condition and behavior, and accepted him as he is and recognized what he is. I love him, he is my son. But I firmly hope he never is released to society and when he comes up for parole again in 4 years I will be there along with the mother of the girl he killed, asking that he not be released.
 xodara
Joined: 10/7/2006
Msg: 267
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/16/2007 11:30:45 AM

If a psycho witnessed a fatal car accident where one person died and one lived, they might closely watch how the survivor reacts to seeing their friend/family member die. In case the psycho loses someone close to them one day, it'll be useful to know how they should look to make it appear that they're all torn up about it.

My ex used to do that. He'd watch people closely to see how they react to certain situations, then he'd react the exact same way when the opportunity arose.

While discussing his cruelty with his exwife, we learned that he took her reactions to certain situations and used them with me.

He once told me I was good for him because I teach him how to act in public in certain social situations.

Oxdrover,
I'm so sorry about your son and father.
 Dr.Strange
Joined: 3/6/2007
Msg: 268
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/16/2007 11:39:40 AM
to comment on Saddam Huessien being a psychopath, he wasn't, he actually had alzheimers disease which as we all know can result in bizzare behaviors, his sond started to run things so if you want to call him psycho, its his sons!!!


Sorry but... any one who raises statues of themselves and calls himself a god in my book is a psychopath
 OxDrover
Joined: 7/20/2006
Msg: 269
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/16/2007 3:12:30 PM
Xodara, thanks for your empathy in the matter, it has caused me untold grief in the past, but "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" and I think that ultimately, dealing with my father for a couple of years while I was a young adult and working for him gave me some insight later into dealing with my son. "Losing" a relationship with my father was not the horrible thing it could have been, because I did have a wonderful, loving step father and had grown up in a home free of anger and violence. "Losing" my hopes and dreams for my very gifted and talented son was another matter entirely. However, again "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" and it actually led me into the mental health part of health care. It helped me work through the grief and the losses and see the WHYS.

Many parents who give birth to these children, or adopt them, wonder if there is something that "they did" to make the child this way. In the past, a newborn infant was considered by mental health professionals as a "blank slate" and it was assumed that if you were the parent of Charlie Manson or Ted Bundy it was becasue you were a poor parent. At least we have gotten past that point now and are not blaming sociopaths on their childhood.

A criminal can be "taught" to be a criminal or abused and made angry enough to hurt people, but a sociopath is BORN in my humble opinion. The only thing environment can give him/her is to either "socialize" them to become President of the US or CEO of a major corporation, or an officer in t he military, or a police officer instead of Charlie Manson. Some take to the socializatin and live in our society, not crossing the laws and going to jail, but devestating lives as they go, and leaving crushed individuals in their wake.

There are times that since his imprisonment my son has gotten so SLICK that he ALMOST convinces me that he has "found Jesus" and made a turn around, but then it won't be long until just for a second he lets the "mask of sanity" drop and I can see that he is just getting slicker. The CONTRADICTIONS in what they say and do is a big TIP OFF. On my last visit with my son, we were discussing some things about settling his dad's estate, etc. and several people who had tried (unsuccessfully) to take advantage of me (not family, but friends). He had been talking to me about my hurt and anger concerning these people and all about "forgiveness, and what woujld Jesus have done" and on and on, he sounded like a ministerial counselor. SOOOOO sincere.
Then not long after this we were talking about a "friend" of my husbands who had actually stolen some things that belonged to my husband--my son dropped the mask for a minute and looked at me through "Charlie Manson eyes" and said, "You tell that SOB if he doesn't get that stuff right back to y ou, I will have one of my friends come up there and cut his balls off, and you better believe I can do it."

The contradiction was so ABRUPT and he didn't have any idea that the two didn't mesh. Then shortly thereafter he went back to talking about forgiveness. That is one of the things Dr. Hare talks about in some of his books, about the fact they know the WORDS but not the TUNE. One example is a mother who says "Of course I love my kids" but doesn't feed them, she can't equate "love" with caregiving behavior"

When I came home after that visit, I made up my mind that just in case I were to die before he comes up for parole again in 4 years, I want my voice to be heard at that hearing. I think that because I am his mother, they might listen to me. I have written a letter and made a video, and let enough money earmarked for that purpose to hire an attorney to present this to the parole board. He has a 100% chance of going back to prison again anyway. Since he was 17 he has spent a total of 5 months outside of prison, he is "into firearms" and stole his first gun at age 15 from his grandfather, stole one at 16 from a customer of our business, and stole at least one more (which he used to kill the girl) He has partcipated in home invasion robberies where people were held and terrorized at gun point and committed murder in cold blood. If I am alive, I will be there in person. It isn't about hating my son, I don't hate him, I just recognize that he is violent and will not change. Occasionally sociopaths calm down when they reach upper middle age and become less violent. Not complete or healthy people, but at least safe to live in the community as far as criminal behavior is concerned, but I have no hope that he will be among them.

I have great empathy for all the other people who are married to them, give birth to them, were given birth by them..those people CAN be helped. Education is the key to helping them to get out of the relationships and stay out of the relationships. RUN like hell.
 lotacus
Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 270
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/16/2007 3:12:35 PM
Please people, lets not combine sociopath and psychopath as one entity. They are both totally different mental disorders. I hate seeing references to 'sociopath/psychopath' as if they were inter-related in some way. When I see someone use this as such, my only conclusion(s) is that they have either been mis-informed, mis-educated, or do not know exactly what disorder a given person has so they play it safe to combine the two. This can be dangerous and a properly educated person would only relate to one disorder.

I would self-diagnose myself as a sociopath but not a psychopath. Now, of course the creditbility points at me self-digonosing myself and not getting a medical opinion, but no one knows me better than I do and unless I was forced to seek help, I really don't give a sh*t and won't even bother with it.
 OxDrover
Joined: 7/20/2006
Msg: 271
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/16/2007 6:46:54 PM
Definitions of socio-path, psycho-path, anti-social personality disorder, conduct disorder, and oppositional-defiant disorder depend on many things. If you are talking to professionals or lay persons. They also depend on the age of the person you are speaking about. A child who will become a psychopathic adult is labeled (before age 18) as either "conduct disorder" or "oppositionally definant."

According to The Merck Manual, 7th edition (copyright 1999) : "Antisocial personalty disorder was previously called psychopathic or sociopathic."

The use of socio/psycho path interchangably when speaking to lay people is quite correct. There are some professionals that will put a little bit of different spin on them, but for most practical purposes they will suit. Keeping in mind that there are levels of these disorders from BAD to VERRRRY bad.

I don't know by what criteria you are "self diagnosing" yourself as a sociopath, but not a psychopath, but please remember the old adage "A lawyer who h as himself for a client, has a fool for a client"--the same goes for physicians and clinicians. Self diagnosis is seldom accurate.

If you are truly sociopathic, I feel for both you and those people that you associate with. (and yes, I am a retired mental health professional.)
 Dr.Strange
Joined: 3/6/2007
Msg: 272
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/16/2007 6:56:58 PM
^^^Great Post thank you...very educational


<div class="quote">I don't know by what criteria you are "self diagnosing" yourself as a sociopath, but not a psychopath, but please remember the old adage "A lawyer who h as himself for a client, has a fool for a client"--the same goes for physicians and clinicians. Self diagnosis is seldom accurate.

that line of thinking came up for me also.......


the people conducting the studies to what makes a sociopath or psychopath is still under debate and have not come to a conclusion


Well I'm no sociopath..lol..but it looks pretty straight forward for Me.
 lotacus
Joined: 12/25/2006
Msg: 273
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/16/2007 7:03:39 PM
hehe. sorry, but your post was funny.

1. I don't associate with anyone. I guess you missed that trait in your studies.

2. I am not looking for any pitty or sympathy, I just don't care. (I guess you missed that trait as well).


The fact being, every single one of you get your information from books and those sources of information come from books as well. As I read in this forum, the people conducting the studies to what makes a sociopath or psychopath is still under debate and have not come to a conclusion. What does that tell you? It tells me that they are trying to understand it's nature and anything they have come to publish is only done so to satisfy their understanding, much like how a doctor will make up some fake name to diagnose a patient to fit it's purpose or his/her understanding of what is going on.

If a person truly wants to understand a disorder, they are just going to have to have it themselves.

ok, fine yea, in order to diagnose myself, I would need a source to compare myself with, granted. However, my sources are updated not from some teachings from 1999. I also don't claim to be any given profession or act accordingly while using google as a source of information to try and convince people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
is one example of someone blabbing about the disorder where definative proof or diagnosis is not present. This can be seen by how the author(s) presents the article writing with 'unknowns'. Lets not forget the references to revised content, paying special attention to the way a person is diagnosed. So the only conclusion that I can come up with is that there are different stages. There are no definits, much like herpes, though the latter is a viral infection.

Why would someone revive a 2yr old thread anyway? there should be a lifespan on these things.
 Love_on_fire
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 274
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/16/2007 9:51:14 PM
The best understanding I have is that a psychopath is someone who is not all there and they are dangerous to themeselves and others and they clearly do not exhibit normal behavioural patterns thats a "normal person" does. A sociopath is someone who may seem and act "normal" and they appear to be normal and well spoken and controlled and like they have thinsg together, when inside them they are coniving, manipulative, selfish, greedy, uncaring, uncompassionate (even though they may 'appear' to show these qualities) , they are cruel minded, only thinking and care for themselves and use others for their own gain. Sociopath is just a variation of a psychopath, except a sociopath is harder to detect, because they are better at hiding their sickness and depravity.

Both can be dangerous, and both have an irregular thinking pattern.


I am sure alot of us know the characteristics of a "psychopath", -constant and irregular paranoa, unpredictable anger and overall mood swings to the extrem without warning and often very dangerous, and other characteristics.

But with a "sociopath" , the problem is that many of the characteristics they exhibit seem and in fact are like many "normal" people have. Some examples and these examples are probably of a higher degree then in "normal: people and they include, selfishness, narcissism (sp?), superficialiaty/shallowness (on an unnormally high degree), denial of wrong doing, apathy, willful ignorance, uncaring, un compassionate, extremely materialistic, manipulative, judgmental , not feeling any or very little guilt, thinking that what they beleife/think/do is right even when clearly it is not because of the harm it causes to others in any way emotional/psychological/physical, they are crule, possibly perfectionists and very clever (NOT wise-BIG difference), and thick headed at the expence of others, and many traits like these.

But they both are essentially troubled people who have defaulted from a regular path or course. The only difference is one can control and frame it better so as to appear "normal" , and the other is more easily explosive and has less control.


 OxDrover
Joined: 7/20/2006
Msg: 275
characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/17/2007 12:26:27 PM
Living it up, Ted Bundy was a very charming person by all those that knew him socially (put up a great front of "normal") Charlie Manson, on the other hand was not so "charming" to MOST people. They were both antisocial personality disorder, which is the "newer" name for sociopath and psychopath. Early on in the useage of the names of many mental disorders or illnesses, one "term" or "label" would be used, and then as information on these syndroms (a cluster of behaivors) developed someone would try to "rename it" and the new term and the old term would be used sometimes together. PSychopath and sociopath are two names for the SAME syndrome (cluster of behaivors) the newer name is antisocial personality disorder (for adults) and in children it is called "conduct disorder" untiil they reach 18. Some children who are "bad actors" are labeled "oppositionally definant" instead of the practitioner putting the "conduct disorder" on them and labeling them for life.

The cluster of behaivors exibited by a sociopath=psychopath=antisocial personality disorder. It is the same rose by another name. It IS CONFUSING to non professionals and even some professionals.

Now, given all the different labels for the SAME THING. There are also differences in the DEGREE of each disorder. Some who only exibit mild behavior consistent with the disorder may be labeled antisocial personality disorder TRAITS. This means that they have some of the TRAITS but not enough to really hang the "label" on them.

Not all people with antisocial personality disorder (sociopath/psychopath) become serial killers. For the most part, they just have dysfunctional personal relationships with people within their circles at work, at home and in general. It is almost a given that they cannot have a functional emotional relationship with a S/O and generally leave people emotionally bleeding in their wake wondering what train hit them.

The semantics of the disorders are really a moot point. The behaviors and how to spot them early on BEFORE you get involved with them is the best defense. Years ago when I was working in a hospital that specialized in spinal cord and head injury rehabilitation, a sociopathic nurse manager was hired in a high level position. She literally destroyed the nursing department of the hospital during a critical nursing shortage and within six months all but one of the highly specialized nurses who had worked there, many for as long as 20 years, quit. There were several of us that SAW what was going on, and tried desperately to stem this outflow of critically needed specialists, but in vain! In the end, the psychopathic nurse manager was fired, her boss was fired and the corporation that owned the hospital eventually had to close it and sell the property because there were not enough available specialty nurses in the country to staff it for its specific purpose.

How many people who were spinal cord or head injured that NEEDED the very excellent and special care that this group of highly trained specialty nurses provided ended up with less than ideal results because of this one woman's venom?

In order to find something good out of this disaster, I did realize that the moving on of this many wonderfully trained professionals did spread their knowledge to a great many other places that I am sure it helped to educate more people in the medical system to an aspect of care that they had less knowledge of.

Dr. Robert Hare and others estimate that 4% of the general population are full blown psycho/sociopaths. The estimate that 20% of the incarcerated population is full blown also gives us an idea that more of them commit legal offenses that will land them in jail/prison.

Not all of them are "criminal", but they are 5 times more likely to be. Not all criminals are psycho/sociopathic, but have some other problem or personality disorder.

For the other 96% of us on the street, though I have no data or research to back me up, I would "guestimate" that with the divorce rate at 50%+ and domestic violence at a high rate, that MOST IF NOT ALL of us have encountered one at one time or another in some form that they "bit" us to one degree or another.

Since there seems to be increasing evidence that there is a high rate of inheritability to the personality disorders (all of them) and more evidence coming about as they are now recognizing the "adoptive syndrome" and are realizing that children of these people, even if raised in a loving adoptive home from birth have a VERY high chance of showing signs of personality disorders at a young age, even as low as 8. With very dangerous behavior and no willingness to conform, no matter what therapy is used.

I successfully raised a child whoo was very ADHD and he is a productive member of society and very loving. In the "wrong" home or with a less knowledgable mother he might have been a criminal. Enviornment helped him greatly. But I also raised a psychopathic son in the same loving and educated environment who has spent most of his adult life in prison for increasingly violent crimes. But I guarentee if you sat down to talk to him, he could convince you he was Jesus Christ himself. He is extremely intelligent and can quote from every religion in the world, the most sincere sounding sermons on forgiveness, etc. yet, he sits there as charming as Ted Bundy--and just as toxic.

I have no doubt about the hereditary aspect, my biological father is a full blown psycnopath with ALL the worst aspects, including murder, but he has gotten away with it, partly because he is very wealthy. But 7 ex wives will testify, and a multitude of former business partners, to say nothing of the people whoo have "gone missing" with him on trips out of the country. Sounds too bizarre to be "true"--but he isn't the worst I have heard about by far. Look at the news, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, Charlie Manson, Reverend JOnes, and I am sure you can all name the names from the news, but the ones that are the WORST are the ones that will never be "caught" and executed or put in prison.
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