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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/17/2007 12:38:57 PM |
Sounds too bizarre to be "true"--but he isn't the worst I have heard about by far. Look at the news, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, Charlie Manson, Reverend JOnes, and I am sure you can all name the names from the news, but the ones that are the WORST are the ones that will never be "caught" and executed or put in prison.
for instance The Zodiac Killer..he taunted police with letters of blowing up school buses. | |
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xodara
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Joined: 10/7/2006
Msg: 277 | |
| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/17/2007 12:44:00 PM |
Not all people with antisocial personality disorder (sociopath/psychopath) become serial killers. For the most part, they just have dysfunctional personal relationships with people within their circles at work, at home and in general. It is almost a given that they cannot have a functional emotional relationship with a S/O and generally leave people emotionally bleeding in their wake wondering what train hit them.
That was me...emotionally bleeding in my ex's wake.
The semantics of the disorders are really a moot point. ]The behaviors and how to spot them early on BEFORE you get involved with them is the best defense. Years ago when I was working in a hospital that specialized in spinal cord and head injury rehabilitation, a sociopathic nurse manager was hired in a high level position. She literally destroyed the nursing department of the hospital during a critical nursing shortage and within six months all but one of the highly specialized nurses who had worked there, many for as long as 20 years, quit. There were several of us that SAW what was going on, and tried desperately to stem this outflow of critically needed specialists, but in vain!
How do you spot the signs professionally? | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/17/2007 4:58:39 PM | MSN has a free forum, you have to join but it is free, if you google "psychopath forum" it will come up and you can get in. It is totally about psychopaths and narcissists (which are hard to distinguish, but what the label is doesn't matter, "close enough for government work." The whole thing is devoted to professional people giving advice and stories from people who have been victims. GREAT site. I read and read and read last night.
The best advice I can give is KNOW YOUR ENEMY--some are VERY slick, Ted Bundy was one of those very slick ones. Even used his charm to lure some of the women to him.
My PERSONAL "on the street" thing is that many times they will "come on strong" upon first meeting you--want to be your best friend almost immediately. If that happens, step back and watch and wait.
Look for INCONSISTENCIES in their stories. Some are slick liars but they have problems "keeping their stories straight" so watch for that, back peddling on being caught, avoiding answering a question directly.
Watch how they interact with others--are they always calling others dumb, stupid, pointing out how SUPERIOR they are to the others.
READ READ READ and learn, learn learn. It isn't an easy subject, and no "system" of spotting them is fool proof--I've been fooled, but at the FIRST detectable sign, I RUN. No matter who they are, how much I love them, etc. they get NO SECOND CHANCES. That may sound harsh, but self preservation is my goal. I only let "tried and true" people into my "ring of intimacy and trust"---I've weeded out quite a few on the telephone from POF in a couple of calls. One even only by email. He threatened me and to hurt me if I didn't let him have my home e mail address--he, after all, had given me his. His demanding my home e mail address, which hooks to my business web site would have given out more info than I was comfortable giving him, but he was more the "charlie manson" type than the Ted Bundy type who would have had patience enough to wait longer.
REad on the internet, and buy books and learn all you can, and then, most important, put it into practice. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/17/2007 5:57:37 PM |
The best advice I can give is KNOW YOUR ENEMY--some are VERY slick, Ted Bundy was one of those very slick ones. Even used his charm to lure some of the women to him.
His intelligence is what made him so dangerous...he wasn't your average garden variety psychopath He had a high IQ.......... | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/17/2007 9:01:34 PM | Antisocial Personality Disorder
Diagnostic Critera
1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.
- There are a large number of people that have this trait. This trait is to general and vague. Think of all the laws there are that are grounds for arrest. Arresting someone is also at the discretion of the police officer.
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.
- again, vague and general. We all deceive one another in one form or another and to one degree or another. This ties into aliases as well, it's a way to protect our confidentiality. Take this website for example. AS with conning for personal profit or pleasure, isn't this how large corporations are formed? It's all a matter of interpretation. One can simply say that it means conning someone to give you 10.00, as an example.
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
- vague. Everyone has impulses. I had the impulse to write my thoughts on this 'criteria' check list. POFers have the impulse to register sign in and debate issues in the forums. There is also the people in extreme cases that have the impulse and act on it in regards to murder, or robberies. However, Usually these things are planned ahead. Not so much so that they would write it down on paper, con someone into giving them the banks blueprints, hacking into their security system to disable it, but even thinking of doing it is planning. So failure to plan ahead and impulsivity cancel each other out.
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
- Many factors can play a role into one getting into fights. Many things such as stress, or other psychological factors can cause someone to be irritable. Heck, even being frustrated over something can make a person aggressive.
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others
- What is reckless disregard for self? Do stunt people fall into this category? Sure some would say they are not reckless, but others would. What about those people who constantly speed? There are many reasons why the speed. That is disregarding their safety and the safety of others.
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
- No input at this time. It may well be the most valid one in this list.
these criterias are so general and vague that everyone will fall into this category. Not to mention and I am very sure, that the diagnoses will always be at the discreation of the doctor or whomever, and we all know how wrong doctors can be.
The individual is at least age 18 years.
- I laugh at this. I bet in china it's 16. Something magical must happen at 18.
There is evidence of Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15 years.
- a link to Conduct Disorder is given, yet to be scrutenized by it's validity like this list.
The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode.
- nothing on this because I just don't want to go and read up on those to see how they could or could not relate to antisocial personality disorder.
Need I mention that there is a separate and different criteria for the EU?
the E.U criteria
a) callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
(b) gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules and obligations;
(c) incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
(d) very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
(e) incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
(f) marked proneness to blame others, or to offer plausible rationalizations, for the behaviour that has brought the patient into conflict with society.
There may also be persistent irritability as an associated feature. Conduct disorder during childhood and adolescence, though not invariably present, may further support the diagnosis.
Includes:
* amoral, antisocial, asocial, psychopathic, and sociopathic personality (disorder)
Excludes:
* conduct disorders
* emotionally unstable personality disorder
So one may not have it in the U.S but travel to the E.U and you all of a sudden, with a magical wisp of an invisible wand, you have it.
I guess it depends on where you are situated economically and socially. You may have some traits established in the U.S and you may have traits in the E.U So in either country you don't have it but combined, you do. Also, it would greatly depend on how one chooses the words to describe any given criteria.
man this is such a farce.
oh, my sources
http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe04.html (American Description)
http://www.mentalhealth.com/icd/p22-pe04.html (European Description)
lets not forget yet, another persons description
http://www.lovefraud.com/01_whatsaSociopath/key_symptoms_sociopath.html#glib
Now, what traits do I have?
US description:
1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.
- Hmm. There are things I do that *may* be grounds for arrest but that depends on who the potential arresting officer is, not to mention of such crimes are socially accepted. After all smoking pot is grounds for arrest but rarely happens because it's becomming more socially accepted that it has been in the past. Not to mention politics. If so many people do it, the city or whomever ends up paying more money than it's worth to arrest people.
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
- Since I stated that these two cancel each other out, not to mention they are not sure which one defines a sociopath, I will just say this, I have times where I act on impulse and I never plan ahead. I can't see past 10 minutes. Though I did plan to write this (which means this criteria doesn't fit, but then again, I had the impulse to reply in this thread with such a long post).
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations.
Now, the EU description
callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules and obligations;
incapacity to experience guilt and to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
- I don't know if this would also include learning from ones mistakes.
marked proneness to blame others, or to offer plausible rationalizations, for the behaviour that has brought the patient into conflict with society.
- This is what i'm doing now by discrediting these criterias. Don't even get me started on the government, parenting, Children's Aid (services for the U.S), and my social/economic upbringing.
Mr. Doctor goes into great detail about psychopaths, but I am one to believe that Antisocial Disorder and psychopaths are not related in anyway at all, and I stand by that.
I would like to know how these people get this information because going by the traits they all list, I cannot see how a person with antisocial disorder or a psychopath would be willing enough to participate in such a study, nor give accurate information. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/17/2007 10:24:39 PM | This is what i'm doing now by discrediting these criterias.
A little bit of knowledge really is a dangerous thing.
First point: Your research fails to adequately relate the actual language of the DSM-IV
On the first set of points (you listed 1-6 yet there are 7) items 1-7 are descriptive of the language in paragraph A
A. There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following: (1) failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
(2) deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
(3) impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
(4) irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
(5) reckless disregard for safety of self or others
(6) consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
(7) lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
Though the specific words of the US and EU criteria are different, the meaning and intent are identical.
EU criterion 'a' and US A-5 & A-7 (and to some extent A-1 & A-3), EU 'b' and US A-1 & A-6, EU 'c' and US A-2 & A-7, EU 'd' and US A-5 & A-3, EU 'e' and US A-7, A-3 & A-1, EU 'f' and US A-7 (and to some extent A-2).
Point 2:
B. The individual is at least age 18 years.
This is to distinguish Axis II adult disorders from Axis I childhood onset disorders as well as recognition that the diagnostic criteria for Conduct Disorder are not necessarily indicative of future Antisocial Personality Disorder.
There is nothing magic about it, it comes from both societal norms for adulthood, legal issues surrounding consent for treatment and age-related disgnostic criteria.
Point 3:
C. There is evidence of Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15 years.
Childhood-onset and early Adolescent-onset Conduct Disorder is statisticaly related adult Antisocial Personality Disorder whereas late Adolescent-onset Conduct Disorder is directly diagnostic. There is also the diagnostic criterion that the pattern should be present since age 15.
Again, nothing inconsistent here.
Point 4:
D. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode.
Schizophrenia and mood disorders with Mania are entirely different beasts. These can actually be medically treated whereas Antisocial Personality Disorder can't.
Point 5:
Every example you use to 'illustrate' how everyone shows the symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder are both ludicrous and disingenuous. They appear vague only because your examples completely ignore the issue of degree and severity, both qualitative and quantitative. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/17/2007 11:30:52 PM | WELL SAID MUNGOJOE! 
Another couple of things I'd like to say about what you said or the way the thread is turning is "If you try to teach a pig to sing, you only frustrate yourself and irrirtate the pig."
"My mind is made up, don't try to confuse me with facts."
Unforunately psychology is one of those sciences which, unlike math, seems to fall into the class that a few people who read a book or two, or try to "prove" a point by showing that nothing can be "proven" (like in math 2+2=4) or that in psychology there are few absolutes, overlook the point that psychology is a study of the patterns of behavior of various disorders and illnesses along a broad range of hereditary and enviornmental differences. Doesn't mean those patterns aren't there, it just means that those patterns are that, PATTERNS, not absolutes. In every individual with every disease or disorder there are degrees and differences regardless of which disease physical or mental.
Since I have practiced in both medicine and psychology, and my first degree was in family medical practice (which by the way is about 50% psychology) I realize that the mind and body have no dicotomy. They are one.
There are some great web sites on sociopath/psychopath/antisocial personality disorder and some great books, I would recommend Dr. Robert Hare who studied them in prisons for over 25 years and has written well and understandably about this subject. Since we all have to deal with these people at one time or another, and the potential for damage from dealing with them can be grave--physically and emotionally--I would highly recommend that any person educate themselves to the potential problems in dealing with them.
We try to educate our kids and ourselves about possible sexual predators inside and outside the family, and these people are just as dangerous. Sometimes are one in the same. In the 1970s I lived in Lonoke,AR and was accquainted with Jack Walls III who was one of the worst sexual predators who did not killl his victims. Over a 20 year period this man, from a good and prominent family, molested over 1500 young boys, and eventually when one of them "told" he persuaded the young man to kill his parents. Jack also molested his own sisters boys and one of them committed suicide. Jacks father, Charles "Jack" Walls II, was and, unless he has died recently, is, one of the most upstanding and honest men in the world. He was General Patton's legal aid. I never liked Jack III and knew he was an A$$hole , but never for one moment dreamed he was a pedophile. They can be slick. But I wasn't the only one he fooled. I can only imagine how his lovely wife and two children must feel, and what hell she, they and his father went through in a town of 3,500 when all this came out.
My own psychopathic son killed a girl and is in prison, but he didn't do it in the state in which we lived, and all our friends didn't know it. The "victims" of a psychopath are not limited to the people they molest, or kill, their own family also suffers. Even the ones that are not the Charlie Mansons, Ted Bundies, or Jackie Walls III still wound those the closest to them, and make them emotionally bleed. Sometimes for years and years, with wounds that will never heal.
Thanks for your great post joe | |
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FOR U
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Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 285 | |
| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 7/8/2007 9:50:07 AM | | Excellent thread. Having been married to a sociopath all I can add is.....they are unable to give of themselves on a personal level because they have no emotions or personal needs. Being empty, the most damaging element of their personality is the inability to feel guilt because there is no conscience. That is a fact. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 7/19/2007 8:25:35 AM | 1) Seems like a player. Well, I guess that 75% of the world is a psychopath or a sociopath.
So: if a person seems to be good to be true, then they are probably a psychopath or a sociopath.That makes sense. I've met people like that and it fits.
Mind you, all this is very possible. I one saw a film called "The Corporation". It was all about how most businesses are so selfish and money-oriented that they have the same personality as a psychopath.
I guess the same holds true for people. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 8/1/2007 5:19:11 AM | | Kudos to jon and the Muse for covering the most essential elements of what my best girlfriend got free of last year. Forget diagnosing; people need to be educated in order to avoid these predators and unfortunately our society blames the victim rather than to suppport and encourage these people. She's been banned for life since she inadvertantly revealed his sordid, sociopathic true nature. Having met and fell in love with this monster several years ago, he was charming, witty and sweet; very convincing facade. Over time as the violence, backstabbing, control and fits of rage took over in private, she had to make for the exit. It was a psychological war in which she was held hostage, and she also now suffers from Stockholm Syndrome and post traumatic stress disorder. Yes, machiavelli is the model for this evil, as they're always lying and manipulating behind the scenes to destroy those who expose and/or leave them, while pretending to be just as sweet as sugar ar0und people who can advance their goals and status. Families, friends and counsellors need to be supportive and nonjudgmental. My sista has been through years of indescribable hell and this site is one of the few ways that she can get the word out on these monsters and warn other people to protect them from what she'll go through for the rest of her life. If anyone hears of sees things like her profile on here~ooomaadoll, they might want to take what some people say with a grain of salt and bother to find out the truth; she's not the cause, but is trying to cope with the effect, also from other sociopaths like her sister, ex-sponsor and a few more former friends of both genders. Imagine coming back from a 4-year tour of duty and having the very people who are there to lend help and support are blaming the victim. If they want to hear tapes, hear voice mails or read years of emails to know the truth, which most people should know by her character anyway, it's all there for backup proof. Evil does thrive when good men fail to act and this town is a disgrace; find out the facts before you destroy an already mortally wounded soul, as she did nothing but ask for your support. shame 0n all of you. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 8/10/2007 4:28:21 PM | Kitty, you are sooooo right!
Just been through another "war" with my psychopath son--and finally "won"--but like most "winners" in "war"--I've got some terrible wounds, and the cost has been horrible. I will survive, but AT WHAT COST.
My psychopathic son's "puppet" (also professionally diagnosed as Anti-social Personality disorder--the newest name for psychopath) is in jail, on several felony charges stemming from his being a felon in possession of a fire arm, attempted murder with a fire arm, and attempted breaking and entering. Plus, my son C's wife BOUGHT THE GUNS --and she is also in jail with a felony charge as well. Good thing, too.
My psychopathic son P had all this planned out--but K, his "friend" decided to have an affair with son C's wife, and they got caught, so they just decided to hurry things up a bit and kill C before they took off with thousands of dollars they had scammed out of my confused elderly mother. I have been trying for months to get my son C to see what was going on with his brother and his brother's "friend"--but no one believed my "rantings" and "paranoid ravings"--how could "any sane person believe such a stupid story?"--MAYBE BECAUSE IT WAS TRUE???? not a chance!!! They wouldn't even look at the evidence that the private investigator I hired found to prove that K was lying, that he WAS A PEDOPHILE--their "evidence" that they had was "he said it wasn't true." DUH!
Well, now, we are working to get enough evidence to get a "conspiracy to murder" charge against my son who is in prison, and in Texas that is his THIRD STRIKE and he will NEVER GET OUT...and K will go to prison in Arkansas and I think I might be able to get his "sentences stacked" so that they are not "served at the same time" which will make him do more years. But in the meantime, they have our address, so it is move somewhere they can't find us--move from our family's home siince 1833--but at least I am alive to move, my son C is alive and my mom is alive and still has her estate intact.
But our family will never be the same again--my mother will go down to her grave in grief and pain, but the knowledge that her "beloved grandson" did this to us, to her, and that her disbelief almost caused my son C and me to lose our lives---how can that be "fixed"--??
I've spent almost $40,000 in legal fees, private investigators, etc. and wasn't able to accomplish anything, except put them on notice that I was "after them"--but in the end, they brought down their own house of cards with the "affair"---and got caught.
When I showed up at the bail hearing to give an "impact statement" to the judge, the psychopath sat over in his orange jump suit--smirking--not the least ashamed or "sorry" for anything except getting caught. Even if he got caught, he had still "won" because he got the pleasure of making my life miserable, of hurting me, of destroying my son's marriage---
But I did get the bail so high neither of them could make bail, and my DIL did decide to give the money back in exchange for a little "good will" and to sign the divorce papers without contest--and she will most likely get probation. But she will have a felony conviction, and when she does come out of jail, she will have "everything in the world she owns" on her back---so there is some justice in this world. Some vindication for us "victims---and yes, there are plenty of people that deal with these folks that are 100% INNOCENT VICTIMS. They are excellent con-men and can use you like TP and not care.
Vindication does feel nice--but I am not gloating in any sense of the word. I am just glad to be alive and kicking. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 8/12/2007 7:14:49 PM | | hugs) to you oxdrover. it's heartbreaking to read what you've been through; it's just inconceivable and heartbreaking to read. my best friend who's been banned from these forums by her XNP and all of his lies gets a lot of support on some other sites that you've mentioned before. you can't appeal to the conscience of an np as they don't have one, no guilt no heart. however, her lawyer has now got years of his chat archives, complete medical history, emails and the tapes of every conversation they've had for over a year now, to have him arrested. sociopaths are pathological liars, master manipulators and they've got a perverse sense of entitlement/irresponsibility. the only way to hold them accountable and to stop the projection/smear campaign is to get the courts and police involved. narcissists tend to underestimate their prey sometimes and overestimate their own intellect, attractiveness, powers of persuasion, etc. par for the course as you know that they're a legend in their own minds. he became violent by last fall, smashing 2 pc's and her phone outta her hand. good thing there is so much evidence and an endless array of witnessess. it's for his own good as his fits of rage almost killed her while he was driving as well. you're so right that there's no vindication in locking them away. they hurt everyone including themselves and their families, people who loved them most. at least knowledge is power and she'll never be a naive, trusting target again~that was stolen by him. you're an inspiration oxdrover; glad that you're alive and kicking too, kitty | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 8/12/2007 7:56:42 PM | Thank you for your kind words, Kitty, I don't know about "inspiration"--I do know that my "little darling" son did underestimate this "tough old bird"--yes, he is arrogant like you can't believe--and he has fooled me in the past--or rather, I LET him fool me, which is in some ways the hardest thing to admit. When you love someone it is difficult to admit that there is NO HOPE for them, and that they are literally a MONSTER.
My son qualifies in the "monster" "Hannibal Lechter" (I'm not sure of the spelling on that). catagory. Back years ago I had worked in head and spinal cord injuries, and then when my beloved step son suffered a massive head injury, I told my husband that I think that that job was "God's way of preparing me to deal with this." The time I spent working in the psych field I also think was God's way of "preparing me for dealing with my son."
Depending on which studies you read, there are from 1 to 4% of the general population that qualifiy as "certifiable" Psychopaths (Narcissists are the "nicest" form of this, but is essentially the same) all Ps are Ns, but not all Ns are Ps--
In prison, 20% of the inmate population are certifiable PPDs--and they do about 75% of the violent and repeat crime. Many people on the outside never get afoul of the law and go to jail or prison, but the wreck lives and leave a wake of emotionaly "bleeding" corpses, financially ruined people, scarred children, wrecked families, and other devestation behind.
Punishment doesn't "work"to help them clean up their act in the least, and therapy (according to a recent study) only gives them a better arsenal of weapons to work with and hones their skills as con men, and emotional fakes. Some of them are quite good at it.
If you are interested in protecting yourself, go to --the psychopath dot freeforums dot org and READ AND LEARN. That is one of the best support sites for survivors of these human vampires that I know of. MSN also has one.
About 99.9% of "abusive" spouses would qualifyt at least on the low end of the scale in these qualities, and your friend's husband qualifies. They can become quite violent when they are thwarted in their goals. It is amazing to me that so many of us "victims" allow ourselves to be abused over and over and over and over, some victims NEVER escape the clutches of these people.
There are a great many "red flags" that are generally apparent when you meet one of these people, but most ignore it and let them get their clutches on you before you even realize it. We try to be "too nice" and just like a wolf seeks out the weakest deer in the herd to focus on, these people can almost "smell" someone who is emotionally needy enough to fall for their BS--not every Jackass is an N or a P, but all Ns and Ps qualify as jackasses for sure.
A friend of mine who just "fell in love" with a guy she met on the internet, saw fairly quickly that this "princecharming" was setting her up for the "emotional kill"--no benefit to him, really, except the satisfaction of another victim on his resume.
I have met several guys on POF and other sites that I would "bet the farm" that qualified, but "picked up on" the RED FLAGS. I didn't however, pick up on those red flags when I started dating one after my husband died because I had "known" him casually for about 10 years. Many times they have a mask of "mr nice guy" to the world at large and only abuse those nearest and dearest to them. Fortunately, I got out of that relationship in only a few months, but if I hadn't eventually realized he was a P, I could have married the man and been in "hell on earth"---
Most people are basicly good people and do the best they can. We all have things that are "baggage" of one sort or another, but the "red flags" of the N and P are the "instant love" and the "too soon too fast" "sweep you off your feet" stuff that should be a red flag. They are a heady "narcotic" and lure you in with "the love affair of the century" but as soon as you are "hooked" they start to fillet you alive and throw you in the hot fire to cook.
I am just sorry that I gave birth to one, but I hope he stays in p rison for the rest of his life and if I can facilitate that, I will. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 8/15/2007 8:54:56 PM | There are some good books on this subject:
"Without Conscience" by Robert Hare. He developed the psychopathy checklist used in forensic psychiatry to determine if someone is a psychopath, and "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout already mentioned in this thread.
Another book is "Snakes in Suits -When psychopaths go to work" by Babiak & Hare. It's about psychopaths in the workplace. Not all psychopaths commit violent crimes. Some of them lie their way to high places in business and could be your boss from hell. I had a boss from hell once who didn't give a sh*t about her staff and let her staff be bullied by their male co-workers and didn't do anything about it. She attacked the female staff with lies on their evaluation etc.
She finally left as she was caught in lies and got a job somewhere else and got fired from that Manager job for drinking and having sex in her office.
Psychopaths make up a small percentage of the population but people need to be aware as these are the people who will woo a lonely woman/man and then take them for all their money and leave, or the telemarketers who rook the elderly out of all their savings.
Most people are decent, but we need to be aware of those who do not have any ability to have a conscience and there is no treatment for this. Schizophrenics can be treated with antipsychotics to treat their delusions and voices but there is no treatment for psychopaths. MRI studies have shown that their brains behave differently then normal people when shown images of things that would create emotions in normal people. The areas in their brains regarding emotions do not light up on the MRI's the same.
The one's who have been convicted of vicious crimes and even white collar crimes need to be kept locked up as they will do it again when released as counselling does not work on them in prison except teach them how to fake caring and emotions to dupe other victims when they get out. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 8/16/2007 9:40:36 PM | you are so right on the money regarding all that you've posted oxdrover; clearly having a firm grasp of this evil from both a professional and a personal level. my best friend left her exNPbf last winter and will never go back~not a victim.. i'm staying with her sometimes to help with the nightmares and just to lend support, since most people could never grasp the depraved insanity of "such a nice guy". that is how they hook in their victims initially, faking to care about others, etc. since she left this monster, of course he is stepping up the smear campaign and recruiting loyal followers who are not smart enough to catch on. once she read, studied and talked to some of his ex's, family members and psychiatrists, the puzzle pieces clicked together and she got out. also, this male friend of hers, who helped her move into a supposedly "safe" place and lives a few blocks away w/his girlfriend and their kids, gleefully bragged at full volume in public last winter, that he was an ex-con/diagnosed psychopath as well. at least they're easy to spot now, it's just too bad that they convince everyone that they're the victims, thereby isolating the real victim and simultaneously blowing her entire support network to shreds. they contradict themselves often, have a low i.q. and derive their only pleasure from delierately hurting as many people as possible, with an evil smirk while they doing this. how ironic that people believe such lying, spin doctors no matter how much evidence points to the contrary. hope that you're well and thanks for all the useful input. hugs, kitty
re: the other post about them having abnormal mri's; hopefully this could be forced by the courts once he goes jail, then they will throw away the key, no? perhaps giving a set of tapes of these ppl, including her sister and a few others, along with the other documented/recorded proof to the CMHA, in addition to her lawyer and the police, would land them in penatang, where they must have an mri machine as well. peace | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 8/17/2007 8:50:01 PM | Shy Lady, the "terms" for Psychopath/sociopath/anti-social personality disorder are debated and used and changed on a frequent basis even by professionals, so in essence they are THE SAME. A Narcissist is also on the same scale. There is a continuium from "Bad to worse" with narcissist at the "bottom" (least violent usually) up to Psychopath/Sociopath/Anti-social personality disorder. i.e. a 1 to 10 scale.
In any terms, these people leave chaos, havoc and misery in their wakes to one degree or another.
Yes, their brains are HARDWIRED different and there is an 80% correlation to heredity, but probably not just one gene. Dr. Robert Hare studied these folks for his entire career and is one of the top experts on them.
Unfortunately, it is not "PC" to say that there is anyone who is not subject to rehabilitation etc. etc GAG! Unfortunately, a recent study proved that PPD (psychopathic personality disorder) are WORSE and more violent AFTEr therapy--they gain new tools to use against their victims.
Because they do not many tiimes have a "motive" that makes sense to the rest of us, it is difficult for "normal" people to actually see what is happening until they are hooked in deeply with these people. Some motives are apparent, scamming money, but others are more difficult to see--but many times it is nothing more than the "thrill of the chase" to "get away with a con."
They are experts at picking out prey that are vulnerable to their charms and they sense somehow what it is emotionally that the prey "needs" and pretend to fill it, then when the pray is "hooked" the abuse starts--sometimes just for the sake of huring someone or somthing "weaker" than they are. They need constant adoration and have an inflated sense of entitlement and that "rules don't apply to them."
Many times the victim is made to lookk like the scammer, and they ruin body and soul, reputation and sanity of the chosen victim. They do as much as they can to make the victim accept the "blame" for their behavior. A PPD husband may come home, and beat his wife, then apoologize and blame her, "Honey, if you had had supper on the table when you should have, I wouldn't have had to smack you." He was hitting her "for her own good"--GAG YUK--they love to taunt their victims and brag about how sly they are. A pair of them can be beyond belief if they can work together on a scam. In the end, though, if they are caught, they will "roll" on each other because they have NO loyalty to anyone except themselves.
There IS NO HOPE for these people to make them "normal"--to make them see the light. They are unable to feel empathy, or love, but they learn to mimic the emotions in conning their victims. They are NOT all in prison. Reading and learning the RED FLAGS will help, but some are so sly they frequently fool professionals.
The damage they do to humanity and to society are unfathomable. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 8/19/2007 12:51:25 PM | Interestingly enough, a sociopath can appear to care about the norms if getting what they want leads to an end. In this way, the more complex successful sociopath has learned more mutifaceted ways to get the win. However, I agree that the key variable in all sociopaths is their lack of empathy and ability to appear caring through charm.
Newpaths | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 8/23/2007 12:12:13 AM | Wow, Oxdrover, I just revisited this thread after a long time and saw your excellent posts.
I started studying psychopaths and other behavior disorders as a hobby because I had a couple experiences with them at work.
One, I'm pretty sure was an aggresive narc. We were lucky he was aggresive, which made him easy to spot. He didn't last long, but the damage he inflicted on the company took months to clean up.
As I believe you mentioned, the most common tool in the manipulator's arsenal is the pity play. The "bad boy with a heart of gold". 'He's not really bad, he's just misunderstood."
The second one was in the sales department. Something about the guy didn't strike me as genuine. He had what I now know was the CLASSIC predatory stare.
Later on, found out his wife was pregnant and he was sleeping with a girl in marketing.
Another woman told me how he had explained his plans to retire off his stock options and start a charity. A hard-nosed, cut throat sales guy starting a charity. Right.
Another girl he was working on. Found out from a mutual friend that she was considering hooking up with him, and had even talked the matter over with her mother for advice. All the while knowing he was married. Mother wisely told her to stay away and so far as I know, she did.
I asked a lot of questions about it, because this particular girl he had targeted already had a boyfriend and she didn't seem like a dope. Yup, the pity play: "He had fallen out of love with his wife but felt he had to do the responsible thing and be there for the kid." Other explanations I heard he offered: "His wife had cheated on him, but he took her back, but just couldn't feel the love for her, but stuck around for the kid, etc. etc. etc." | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 8/27/2007 5:43:12 AM | Basic stats that are correlates, and as you know, are not relective of the whole polulation. Random studies do not reflect the truth. I agree that there can be similar characteristics combined, based on stats from records-diagnosis, self reports, twin studies, and brain research per chemical activity. However, we still are shooting in the dark since most information is still subjectively based.
I agree that these terms have been merged into personality disorders. I work in the field and have to assess on a regular basis. I also agree that the DSM-IV and other code books are based from studies and board representatives concluding their perspectives on different breakdowns of characteristics.
I do know when a diagnosis becomes accepted, we suddenly see a flood of people with it. Recently, where I live, it is Bipolar. In children- hyperactive behavior was diagnosed as ADHD. Now we realize that some have anxiousness-related to poor stability in their home. Or they are consuming chemicals in the food that create an alergic reaction.
I use the DSM-IV because I have too, not because I see it as the psychology book of diagnosis.
I do know this-------------------------------------------------that sociopathic behavior can be diverse. However, lack of empathy, perception of others at fault, inability to see their own contribution to problems, and strong manipulation skills to get what they want with leaving people behind baffled about what is real or not can be signs of a possible sociopath.
Newpaths | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 8/27/2007 5:54:47 AM | Basic stats that are correlates, and as you know, are not relective of the whole polulation. Random studies do not reflect the truth. I agree that there can be similar characteristics combined, based on stats from records-diagnosis, self reports, twin studies, and brain research per chemical activity. However, we still are shooting in the dark since most information is still subjectively based.
I agree that these terms have been merged into personality disorders. I work in the field and have to assess on a regular basis. I also agree that the DSM-IV and other code books are based from studies and board representatives concluding their perspectives on different breakdowns of characteristics.
I do know when a diagnosis becomes accepted, we suddenly see a flood of people with it. Recently, where I live, it is Bipolar. In children- hyperactive behavior was diagnosed as ADHD. Now we realize that some have anxiousness-related to poor stability in their home. Or they are consuming chemicals in the food that create an alergic reaction.
I use the DSM-IV because I have too, not because I see it as the psychology book of diagnosis.
I do know this-------------------------------------------------that sociopathic behavior can be diverse. However, lack of empathy, perception of others at fault, inability to see their own contribution to problems, and strong manipulation skills to get what they want with leaving people behind baffled about what is real or not can be signs of a possible sociopath.
Newpaths | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 3/22/2008 5:26:00 PM | I spent almost 14 years with such a person! It's been a year since the last time we were toghether and I'm still struggling with myself and getting as much information as possible to get rid of all the harm this person caused to myself. He used to be an "functional addicted" and it seems that the use of drugs made him an incredible lovable person, even though he lied about almost everything and I felt like walking on edge most of the time. He kept me hanging on with promises he never kept and used every person in his way. When he entered in Narcotics Anonymous, about 2 or 3 years ago, his true personality emerged and believe me it was really scary. He started a fight for nothing or for the most stupid thing you can't imagine. The shouting was incredible and very out of proportion.... | |
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