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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 5/17/2006 5:14:37 PM | | there is one local profile of such a person, my girl's ex, whom her friends warned her about for years in our real life circle, who apparently "can answer your questions with a smile and a laugh", which is so phony that everyone picks up on it face to face. guy's been online dating for a decade and still single and has left quite the path of destruction in his wake. a self-admitted pathological liar who uses women for sex and everyone else, friends family employers, etc. for money. no conscience or remorse, and his whole life is everyone else's fault. serial cheater who even stole from his church and bosses this past year and cheated on every female he's ever met. just be careful as these monsters are dangerous. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 5/17/2006 5:45:55 PM | Crap! I have every symptom!!!! Who doesn't!
There is A LOT more to it when trying to diagnose somebody with this sort of mental illness. Many people fall into these descriptions. It's just the "Dr. Phil" way of psychology/psychiatry - bullshit!
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 5/18/2006 12:39:05 PM | | so oceanpearl, you have every symptom? really? including the total lack of empathy and remorse? these are pretty much the defining characteristics of the profile. your statement is pretty ignorant. there are an alarming number of people who fit this profile, but if everyone did, them society would never have been able to function. this profile was around long before dr. phil and his bullshit. as has been said before, which you would know if you had bothered to read the thread, most people meet SOME of the criteria, SOME of the time. if you had ever run across one of these people, you would probably recognize how well they fit the profile right away. in the same way that it isn't hard to recognize an extreme paranoid/schizophrenic without a degree in head science, it isn't hard to recognize that someone you know has an alarming number of these symptoms. these people are dangerous and they are everywhere. try to make sure the brain is in gear before you engage the mouth(or keyboard, as it were) next time. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 5/18/2006 2:18:17 PM | | just glancing at the APD Hare Psychopathy Checklist- Revised (PCL-R), which is a clinical rating scale with 20 items, with a score of 2 per trait that is present in a psychopath, a diagnosis which of course could only be determined by a mental health professional under controlled conditions, as in sid's post...my ex would have a minumum of 34...i'm no doctor and no, i don't watch dr. phil, which just happens to be his fave show. nevertheless, i abhor the ignorance in some of these posts...if you've ever gotten to know one of these people up close and personal, then you'd understand that they do unspeakable, irreparable damage and will never care about a thing but themselves, imho. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 5/18/2006 5:36:58 PM | Sidheanwwyn:
You obviously took my post wrong... (extreme paranoia perhaps).. it makes more sense to me now why you posted this thread since you are such an expert on the characteristics of sociopah/psychopath behavior is.. you're a paramedic after all.. I mean 10 months training should really teach you a lot!
I myself have worked with people who actually suffer from these conditions for many years (children and adults) and know first hand of the length of time and testing that is involved with diagnosing a person with these types of illnesses. If you had any idea about that, you wouldn't have posted a list of symptoms. You are dead wrong about recognizing symptoms and being able to diagnose. Most patients who actually have sociopathic/psychopath personalities are smart enough to hide their issues. They know exactly how to get what they want and will stop at nothing to get it (a common symptom). You would never know unless the person is someone who you know very well in most cases - they usually come off as quite charming to the average aquaintence. When it comes to schizophrenic, no it is easy to tell depending on the severity of the disease - some have it for years and people don't think anything of it - they still work, go to school, have families and violent or alarming behavior never presents itself. Your entire origional post is wildly inaccurate and insulting to those who know better.
Symptoms are important, yes, but you can't just rely on symptoms when diagnosing a patient. That is why I found this post absolutely preposterous. Your profile claims that you are a paramedic, I'm suprised that you would be so careless as to post false and misleading information for the public to read. This is why I labelled this thread as "Dr. Phil" - it makes everybody an expert on mental illness - this type of thinking only fuels more ignorance surrounding those who actually suffer from these illnesses. It brings up walls and casts stereotypes - talk about lack of empathy and remorse. You are creating more challenges/paradigms for these people - not to mention those that you will falsely diagnose along the way with your symptoms calculator. If I knew where you worked, I would have your job lady!
As for making sure my brain is in gear before shooting my mouth off? I would suggest that you take your own advice on that one. Posting something which is completely fabricated and then trying to pose as an expert on the topic shows a lot about your character. I hope that you will at least learn from this and seriously think of the harm that you are doing to those who actually are sufferers from these problems.
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 5/19/2006 11:25:21 PM | oooooo, gee. where do i start... oceanpearl, your profile lists yer profession as student. i'm gonna address this first cause it pissed me off the most, as i'm sure you intended. i don't know of any medic classes that are only 10 months, but if there are any, i feel sorry for the students, as it's basically a crash course in emergency medicine. less than half of those who start a class finish it, and only a few of those pass national registry the first time. as for the amount of information involved, there isn't much the er staff can do that i can't do in the back of my truck. you obviously think a lot of yourself, especially if you think you could have any effect on my employment status. that's actually pretty funny. if you really want to know where i work that bad, e-mail me, and i'll tell you. good luck trying it, as i have the rep of being good at my job.
as for the rest, i have addressed this over and over in this thread, but i guess you didn't bother to read it. i got the info from a legitimate site, after going through quite a few of them for the one that would make the most sense to laypeople. once again, if i had gotten the list from cosmo, noone would be bitching. that someone would have to know someone well most of the time to recognize the symptoms WAS THE WHOLE POINT. i posted this because i have run across too many of these people, and hoped to give some people a heads up. often the effect these people have is to generate confusion in those who have to deal with them. they leave you with the feeling that maybe something is wrong with you because you have a problem with their behavior - which is exactly what they intend. there is nothing false about the information. i copy/pasted it straight from the site, and later in the thread posted additional info.
the attitude that only professional people are capable of recognizing mental illness is very condescending, as there are plenty of people with the smarts to use the info wisely, and learn to see the warning signs in the people they have to deal with. never claimed to be an expert in that i don't have a degree, but have had some training, both in medic school and in college, and have to deal with the mentally ill on a regular basis.
what else are you going to use, if you can't use symptoms to make a diagnosis? that statement is nothing short of laughable. any fool could see that the point of this thread was to help give those who are involved with these kind of people some idea what they are dealing with, not to have people diagnosing mental illness. i guess yer just sooooo damn smart that you missed that. you also talk about harming those who "suffer" from this problem. i, and i'm sure many people here, could tell you that the only ones who suffer are the people who have to deal with those with antisocial personality disorder, and i don't think it's up to you to teach me anything. get over yourself. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 5/22/2006 5:59:17 PM | Woah, talk about a superiority complex! You have demonstrated this type of "bullying" behavior repeatedly on this thread. It seems that you just want to cause conflicts.
your profile lists yer profession as student
Yes, I'm currently in the process of completing my masters, which I've been working on for a year. I never claimed that I was better than anybody, although after re-reading my last post I can see how you took it that I was dismissive of your education. I will say that I didn't mean to do that. I was just trying to drive it home that only Dr.'s can make those diagnosis and also that those who are considered "medical professionals" have a duty to uphold the beliefs and rights of their patients. I feel that this thread is doing nothing but taking three steps backward and casting more paradigms.
as for the amount of information involved, there isn't much the er staff can do that i can't do in the back of my truck. you obviously think a lot of yourself,
No, I care about the people who are sufferers of these illnesses and the implications that "Dr. Phil-type" analysis like this brings to society.
From what I've read in this thread, you pose yourself as an expert on this topic - I have read through this entire thread and you constantly come back everytime that your opinion is challenged trying to assure your debatee that you are the know-it-all of mental illness. You even challenged an actual psychologist at one point! You have repeatedly been rude to people and at one point even told a person to "get off your thread". Tell me please why people don't take you seriously.
what else are you going to use, if you can't use symptoms to make a diagnosis?
Please tell me where I said that you can't use symptoms to make a diagnosis? You are grasping at straws as an attempt to prove yourself right. What I said was that there is a lot more to making a diagnosis than just going through a list of symptoms. Many people who are considered "mentally healthy" have a lot of the same symptoms that you have listed and also people who are diagnosed with these illnesses may have none or few of the symptoms. It is not a reliable source and you are not a Dr. I am not trying to imply that you are stupid or that you have no experience with people, but I am fairly certain that you have no say in diagnosing anybody.
the attitude that only professional people are capable of recognizing mental illness is very condescending, as there are plenty of people with the smarts to use the info wisely, and learn to see the warning signs in the people they have to deal with. never claimed to be an expert in that i don't have a degree, but have had some training, both in medic school and in college, and have to deal with the mentally ill on a regular basis.
Well, since everybody's an expert, I guess that we should inform all of the people who have attended university and those who are currently paying tuition for psychology/psychiatry degrees that they are no longer needed and they are wasting their time and money. This is laughable. Yes, certain people will present symptoms, but it is unfair to diagnose people without medical approval - even then many times people are misdiagnosed. Pop culture is so fascinated with mental illness. This is just adding to the problem.
often the effect these people have is to generate confusion in those who have to deal with them. they leave you with the feeling that maybe something is wrong with you because you have a problem with their behavior - which is exactly what they intend.
This sounds a lot like my experience here with you.
A piece of advice for the future: Just because you shout the loudest does not mean that people will listen to you. I am willing to continue this debate if you will attempt to take off the hockey gloves and speak in a civilized manor. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 5/22/2006 9:10:21 PM | Although I am not technically a moderator, I'm afraid I'm just gonna have to moderate and regulate. The same two people have been the only ones posting for some time, and this is against POF rules. Why are you two ladies arguing over whether or not others will listen to either of you if y'all are the only ones here?
And now, MasterBart shall issue decrees. No remorse, no regret, no sympathy or empathy; with only enough "feeling" sufficient to maintain a substandard erection. And considering I'm just some strange name and face over the internet, I relish diagnosi of mental impetulence. I'm crazy, just like what the used car salesman on late-night TV wishes he was. How many dead babies does it take to make a delicious smoothie? Hey, how many licks DOES it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?
MasterBart commandeth thee... to a catfight! First, in undergarments, using pillows. Some hair pulling, rump-slapping, name-calling, ad pervertum. Next, all brazeirres shall be filled with yer summer's eve and used as a weapon. Take it from there, I wish to see bodily fluids and some well-placed subdermal hematobas.
Hmm, I've heard that if you put a bunch o' females in the same facility for long enough, they all start PMS'ing together. Guess it works on internet forums too, huh?
Diagnose that. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 5/22/2006 9:18:37 PM | Okay...
I was finding this quite funny until:
Hmm, I've heard that if you put a bunch o' females in the same facility for long enough, they all start PMS'ing together. Guess it works on internet forums too, huh?
A little paradigmistic don't you think? I'm not PMSing. I'm just giving my side of an arguement. Why do men always think that a woman is PMSing when she speaks her mind?
OP
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 5/22/2006 10:22:31 PM | Hmmm... "paradigmistic"? Paradigm? Mystic? Is the "g" silent in paradigmistic?
And frankly I'm not that concerned over the hemoglobulin count in your vaginal discharge. You're blonde and I'm not putting my mouth on it, period. (Get it, period? Nevermind.) Brunettes taste better anyway.
But to answer your implied question... because we can. Because too many women spend too much time speaking, while changing their mind. Because no matter what we say, we're still wrong, and you're still talking. And we know it really gets yer goad when we mention the ol' monthly cycle, for any reason, especially if we can use it as a foundation with which to blame the fact that you're still talking, and we're still wrong. Because blaming your hormones is as worthless an excuse as anything.
Why still?
Because I'm just some bum on the internet who gets his kicks out of randomly interrupting others' pointless, belligerent debates.
Because I'm going bald.
Because soon my head will be as hairless as my pasty chest.
Because your profile says you're only interested in "the smart ones", yet it's full of illiterate babble.
Because I work a menial job and have no money.
Because I still live at home with my mother.
Because you're blonde.
Because cats frequently pee on my fresh laundry.
Because you think you'll find a boyfriend by calling yourself stupid.
Because no new 'Vette will truly compensate for my small penis.
Because.
Because I'm the Master and you're the minion, all made manifest simply by my saying so. Because I don't toss in random slurs for anyone's entertainment other than my own. Because dumb blondes get huffy when I make fun of their genitals, and there's no reciprocation.
Because I have no sympathy, no empathy, I delight in watching others squirm, I delight in watching myself squirm, and this is a thread on people with these symptoms, right?
Because I can type a novel's worth of pointless idiosyncrasities like this, and some shmuck will read it all and respond to it. I don't even know what "idiosyncrasities" means, and I don't care. Probably didn't spell it right anyhoo. And still don't care. Is "anyhoo" in the dictionary?
What was the question? | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 6/12/2006 2:20:13 AM | I've read a lot of these posts (admittedly not all). I guess I take issue with the whole fact saying you can't diagnose someone a psychopath if you aren't a doctor. If you are in a relationship with an actual psychopath, good luck with actually getting them diagnosed by a doctor!!
1. They won't tell the pscyhopath quite often that they are actually a psychopath
2. Psychopath's often lie and leave out really relative information during councelling sessions
3. Even if they were to get a diagnosis, chances are they aren't going to accept it.
4. You are not going to get YOUR sense of justice from their diagnosis. There are doctors are working on their behalf, not yours.
5. Before any of that actually happens you have to actually get them in to see someone which is very difficult.
I dated a psychopath and I wish I knew then what I knew now. When you are in that situation, its important to know they will most likely never change and you HAVE to get out of there or they will consume you. Don't deny yourself the information you need to protect yourself simply because you aren't a medical professional. There is a ton of research on this stuff and other disorders that if you learn it along with maladaptive behaviors you can kind of start to disguish between the two. Maladaptive behaviors can be damaging though just like psychotic ones if not treated though so are good to know as well.
I have learned so much about the signs on how to recognize abusers (and quite often psychopaths) that I don't really need a Dr. to tell me the person I'm dealing with is dysfunctioning on that level. I probably know more than a lot of GPs on the subject and could hold my own in a discussion with psychologist.
I do find people toss around the term "psychotic" too easily. After being in a relationship with one, its such a serious accusation to make that you should kind of know your stuff before making it. If someone is acting psychotic though, that's just as bad. Just don't label them if you don't know. If you are suspecting things like that though its a pretty big hint to get out of the relationship. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 6/12/2006 6:26:12 AM | With the advent of the Internet, everyone can now be a
"cut and paste' expert. there is very little to be gained by "Tit-for Tat" arguing about "diagnosis"...Diagnosis is simply a shortcut for the so-called mental health world to
classify and medicate.....that's it.....classify and medicate.............medicate.....medicate.
I find it interesting that the "industry" itself admits that a "significant proportion" of people drawn into the "profession" are actually seeking to solve their own neurosis.(and hey!, make a few bucks on the side......Flame out all you want about all the "good" the "profession" does...I say it's America's most dreadful secret(treatment of so-called mental patients) and is America's version of Russias' Gulag.
If i won the Powerball. I would start a self-perpetuating trust fund, buy a law firm. advertise coast -to coast for people who have been abused(by mental health facilities) to sue their "benefactors"......It is truly a dark world,filled with self-important power trippers.
God help you if you ever fall into their clutches. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 6/12/2006 5:07:24 PM | | OMG, I just signed up on this site yesterday. The only reason I signed up was because I wanted to read this particular forum that I found on the net under "sociopath dating". It wouldn't let me leave a comment unless I was a member. Today I logged in and saw the "sociopath" I was referring to on this site.... FUNNY. Why am I not surprised. He likes to go on different sites and prey on young women, especially those who are naive, needy and helpless. I truely feel sorry for his next victim, her name is Jenn and he met her on yahoo personals. Poor girl :( I hope he doesn't hack into her PC like he did mine. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 7/22/2006 2:19:59 PM | | magicfingers - while i tend to agree with what you said, in general, it does not apply to this particular diagnosis, as there is no recognised treatment for the disorder. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 9/10/2006 11:35:52 PM | | The information you provided gave me GREAT insight into a situation within my family... My cousin has MANY of these traits, and perhaps with the info you've given, we can get her some real help.. She's been on antidepressants, blah blah blah... but all to no avail. Her life decisions are so very destructive, and she treats those she loves with much agression, and no empathy ever... only blame... I can't thank you enough for your info.. I've copied it and pasted it into an email to share with my family... I hope that's ok... | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 10/7/2006 9:12:58 AM | | that's a useful site for info. thanks newguy106. "the mask of sanity" sums it up. almost imperceptible to the average person, these people are the most destructive hateful sick vicious predators out there. don't enable them and watch out for the pathological lies in a perpetual attempt to justify/rationalize lying cheating stealing using and abusing their victims, while usually playing the professional victim role to sway puplic opinion in their favour; just a wolf in sheeps' clothing. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 10/12/2006 8:04:01 PM | Did anyone mention, how someone gets this way?
Were they raised to be this way?
Were they raised to be narsicisstic?
I know someone who has almost every trait you mentioned!!! | |
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Anno41
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Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 222 | |
| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 10/13/2006 9:59:43 AM | | Actually, when referring to the term "antisocial" in this thread, it refers to an "antisocial personality disorder" which has nothing to do with being an introvert or extrovert, most often people afflicted with this disorder are very extroverted. Antisocials tend to blame everyone else for their problems and believe that laws and social mores don't apply to them yet they are quick to point out everyone else's transgressions. There is no medication or therapy that can cure these people because they don't think they have a problem to begin with. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 10/13/2006 11:07:34 AM | ^^ Very true. Anti-socials are known to be very charming people. Often highly intelligent also. Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to current beliefs in the psychological community psychopath is no longer used. In general most people that fit the traits for a psychopath are referred to as having aspd (anti-social personality disorder). Could be wrong but this is the impression I have from my learnings thus far. There seems to a whole lot of different opinions/beliefs about psychology.
As for the post before this last one, I do believe aspd may be triggered by events of violence/abuse during childhood. Could be wrong about that one also, I haven't been reading much about psych for a couple years now. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 10/13/2006 9:16:27 PM | HI there! I know that there are many men out there who are sociopaths but they really don't need the title as they would never understand. Almost a year ago I was very involved with a significant other we were actually engaged. He did a lot of strange things like put his buddies first even when he should put me first. But this was not the way it was when I first met him. He was saying how wonderful I was how he never truly told me how he felt and how I had changed his life, showing me a lot of affection. Then I started living at his house. Things changed. I did all the things I could for him, followed all his wants, (believe me now I know) and he would tell people bad lies about me that were not true. He made me tell every possible personal mistake a person to his parents and family and yet I certainly did not do this to him but when push came to shove he was a very egocentric person, started telling me things like What makes you think you are beautiful(I thought he did and that was enough) denying me affection, said he did not like to kiss me anymore, it was not his favorite part, soon I was sleeping alone and he was on the computer all night. He did not care that I stuck with him through thick and thin and threw me out of his home just before Christmas. I for some reason still loved him. He threw tantrums all the time and it got so I had to watch my words carefully around him. I was very good to him, but I know now he was not very good to me. I remember how I would have to take the bus or walk because he did not want to burn gas to drive me anywhere and I would go and buy flowers for myself as he did not want to get out of bed. I would go the flea market alone, shopping alone etc. Why didn't I just leave well I loved him and thought maybe he would change back to the man he was before, but in the end he did something totally shocking to me, and I left with clothes and not much else. A few weeks later he says he met someone. HMMM funy how fast that happenned. Anyway I am now looking for a man who is a REAL man, one I can lean on and cry on if needed even. He would just yell after insulting me or threatening me that he would hit me, don't you dare cry! He stole money, lied to me, I did start to catch on to it. He took lies his friend told him over my word. The oddest thing is he had been married before and he had said and his family that his ex wife had gone crazy when he asked her a question! Yet she still lived there then. When I asked him an innocent question, it went from where do you want to go I will take you anywhere you want to You are leaving and you are never coming back. I tried to talk sense to him as I felt he must be sick but it did not work. We had broken up a number of times before but got back together because I would go back, but he told me I will never ever ask you back. Now I want a man that would never let me go if he said he loved me. When I left with hangers flying at me and really a small amount of stuff, he said relationships come and go get used to it. I guess I did not think that happenned so violently when you were promised to each other and he used to say if we got married and I would say I don't want to again(married before a long time ago to an abusive man then but alot of time had gone by and I had raised two kids alone) I did not think I would have the rotten luck to find another. And he had no remorse so is he a sociopath or a psychopath? He never remembers what he did to bring it on. I never verbally fought with him as it was useless and he would go crazy. I was so starved for even a kiss I would have to constantly ask for it. Well guys sorry this was so long. I needed to vent I guess but I just do not want to make the same mistake again ever. I do not know what story he has told people but I know he never tells the truth. I did not know this for a long time though. So how do I learn to trust someone else? I was broken down and felt like I was worthless and he did not care. Threats and how it affects him not me was all that mattered. Well ladies stay away if you see that kind of man. I am very vigilant now! I just hope I know who to trust next. Thanks for reading. Any advice appreciated. | |
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| characteristics of a sociopath/psychopath
Posted: 10/13/2006 11:35:14 PM | Dear Group:
There is not a member here that I could not in someway show maladaptivity. None of us are perfect and can be falsly misconstruded in a way to show false maladaptivity. If you're going to base your future development ambitions with someone on the basis of the posibility that they may be maladaptive then you may as well never have a realtionship again in your life. As defined a maladaptive person exhibits traits that display injurious behavior to ones self, or to others or to society. From this I can say the following in a rediculous seniaro:
Everyone that smokes cigaretts or drinks alcohol is injuring self. If you don't drink you might be also be anti-social as most of the adult population does.
Everyone that drives a vehicle is endangering the lives of others.
Anyone that ends a relationship with another person is injuring that person.
What if a man drinks excessively gets in his car causing a major traffic accident killing three people. Is he anti-social ? NO : based on the description. But if he drank excessively because he had a deep hatred for a person or people then he would be anti-social. If he purposely and with intent depressed the gas peddle and not the brake because he wanted to cause bodily harm to others then your talking sociopath.
With regard to personality testing; There is not one test that has ever been developed that cannot be manipulated by the test taker. Anyone that may be anti-social, a sociopath or psychopath would easily manipulate the test because they are very intelligent people in most cases and always read between the lines and meanings. Yes if a person takes the test and answers the questions honestly then they work. These other maladaptive individuals are definately not honest and if fact very manipulative and elusive as well.
The DMS set of two books of refference. Base refference only. They are guides to assist the Psychologist in HELPING them determine maladaptivity not the diagnosis of it. Just as the Merck manual is the refference for physicians.
The general public, students and so on have a bad tendency to assertain maladaptivity falsly in order to defend their own position on an issue about a person they don't like generally. In an example : A man throws a rock at a passing car cursing loudly at the person inside. Where I live a person might see this and say something to someone with them to the effect " Hey! did you see that Buddy; that's a crazy M.F'er we better say away from that boy , he'll kill us all ". Yeah. Sound familiar ? LOL. Not to break any bubbles but the word crazy doesn't exist in Psychology. The word is maladaptive. You don't know why this man may have thrown a rock at this car. Perhaps it hit his 6 year old hit and took off ( Hit and Run ). If that were the case is the maladaptive or just expressing rage. I think the latter and doubt seriously that on a daily basis he would be throwing rocks at cars on a regular basis. You have to know WHY, how frequently , to what extent and many other factors in determining a diagnosis. Example 2: A mans wife and her lover are engaged in sex in the bedroom. The Husband comes home enters the room goes to the closet grabs a 357 magnum kills both of them and is then arrested in North Carolina. Is he going to jail for murder ? NOPE. Why State Law; crime of passion. Man entered the room and while in the same room obtained a weapon and in a fit of rage killed his wife and her lover. He'll be convicted of voluntary mansalughter caused by hurtful rage. He probably stay in a mental facility by court order for 3 to six months be freed and be required to seek periodic mental health care until released. Free Man. If that same man had entered the room then went back outside to acquire a weapon from his truck for example then returned to the room and killed his wife and her lover then he would have been convicted of 1st degree murder in North Carolina. LOL ;moral of the story; make sure there aren't any weapons in the same room you're fooling around in.
Maybe my long post has helped.
Joke: Man goes to see his psychologist sits down and says to him " Doc everyone hates me". The doctor looks at him and replys " That's ridiculous ; not everyone's met you yet".
Have a good day
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