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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/5/2007 12:27:19 PM | | gotta and in the same token Sir! how do you know that Christ was not speaking to satan and not to peter!and sir, you are a a user of "mental gymnastics" , God in the beginning said believe me by your own will, as the church sees it now, that refers to all those of the Christian faith, for the church teachs that if a man or a woman beleaves in the holy trinity then thay are your brothers and sisters in faith, so what if i believe that peter who was the first pope, was the rock Christ spoke of, that his truth would and be and is spread though that rock? from a historic point, none of the other churchs would have existed without peter and Christ church. i do not attack anyother person who beleives in the trinity, but rather i defend my faith | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/5/2007 12:55:37 PM |
how do you know that Christ was not speaking to satan and not to peter!
A lot has to do with grammatical usages, and I am not the one who claims that the Bible is infallible. If it is infallible, then the words "said unto Peter" would mean that he was speaking directly to Peter. It would also leave doubt as to whether he was referring to Peter when he said "On this rock," because we do not know if he indeed motioned to a rock when he said it, but we could in fact assume he was not speaking of a person because he would have used a personal pronoun, like "On Thee I will build my Church"
I also defend my faith, but I don't need to take a position that first defends the infallibility of the Bible, and then assumes errors. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/5/2007 9:47:56 PM | goota, so you speak from on high you have it, excuse the use of this pharse, the horses mouth, you said the bible was infallible, how do you know that your view on what is in the Good book is not wrong, it comes down to faith sir! for they spoke in old arabic the bible was frist written in greek, before latin, and then translated into multiples
so lets end this by giving respect to both our faiths ok | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/5/2007 10:53:36 PM |
you said the bible was infallible, how do you know that your view on what is in the Good book is not wrong, it comes down to faith sir!
Actually, I claim that the Bible is errant and fallible, but it does come down to faith, and the belief that God will reward you for faith the size of a mustard seed. I do not find any error in the statement that God will answer you if you ask for truth in faith. I do find error in the statement that he will give you a Mercedes Benz if you ask him for one. I find no error in the morals and laws which Jesus proposed for man.
I find much respect for Jesus, his words, his ceremonies, and his teachings within the Catholic Church, and I give the Catholics enormous respect for preserving those words and teachings for mankind, and only ask that they and others would focus on the Golden Rule. Even secular people have adopted this teaching that Jesus gave.
Others have said we should focus on what we agree on, instead of those things which we disagree on, and for the most part I do. It just isn't much fun to have a debate without a few contrary points to discuss.
I do believe that Jesus taught us to beware of people who would deceive us. In fact I can quote the verses:
"Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."...
"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread [or Pharisees and Sadducees, for that matter], that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?"
It's a metaphor for how people will distort the truth, and how even the "bread" of the scriptures are tainted by the opinions of men. Still, the light of wisdom shines through when the metaphor is revealed, and the bread is nourishing without the leaven. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/7/2007 7:49:19 PM | | waiting: i do not know about you, but any church is not about what you see as much as it is about a faith! what you see is what you desire to see, do you see the good john 23rd did in this world oe john paul 2nd? do you see the good works the mission are doing around the world, howq in your own back yard, the giving to the poor, the feeding of the hungry? no you do not, as i said you see what you desire to see, sir, when i look at another faith/church i take a hard look at their faithful, for in them you will see the church/faith, and sir have come across no christain church that i would call satanic! i may disagree in there teachings but i do have respect for them! so continue to see the devil in everything you disagree with or dislike, for it only makes you the fool in the end, just some advice | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/7/2007 10:07:44 PM | | I have faith! I do see the good in the church. I also see the evil and deception that is called the catholic church. It is you who are the fool to not see what is right under your nose. Know thy enemy! | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/8/2007 11:21:20 PM | In an answer to the OP on this thread......is it really about other Christians being against Catholics or is it really that they are searching for another religion completely as the followings of Christ the way the RMC does it is just NOT the right way?? I see so many churchs just pop up because people feel that the other church is "not preaching the TRUE word of the Lord Jesus Christ", cause they feel their version of the Bible is "wrong" so they re-do it to fit their needs. I wonder.....how many Christians are more Pagan or Heathen or Buddist or "Insert-other-faith-here"......they just don't know it. My folks, who go to church every Sunday are so bloody Pagan it is almost funny. At one point, growing up when we used to heat with wood and we ran out one Sat. night, dad and I headed out to the woods to cut some. Mom was livid....."Why can't you wait to do it AFTER church" she told dad. His reply was...."I can find my god out there in the woods just as easy as I can in the four walls of the Church". Makes you wonder.....
"The FUNDIES are coming.....the FUNDIES are coming!!!"  | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/12/2007 8:08:51 AM | First of all, are we talking roman catholics, because the word catholic means universal christian
I have no problems with roman catholics or christians,when martin luther...................... (the great reformation)had there break from the roman catholic church,what did he really do.we still have the clergy and laity distinction,there is no priesthood of all believers(the christians will say they do,but really they dont)If Christ is the head of the church and we are the body,then why do we have all these go betweens,why is it that only the pastor or father gets revelations from God,why is it that they have a conference for themselves and not the rest of the body,you know what they say (if you dont have it on the wall you dont have it on the ball)the problem comes down to laziness,people only read what they want to,Iam a messianic jew,when I learnt about the bible,I read everything on both sides,(and I am from missouri SHOW ME)no if you want to learn you have to go back 2000 years in history not 1700 years.well that is all for now and have a good day,bye for now larry | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/12/2007 8:39:56 AM | Oh where or where do I begin. Being raised Strict Roman Catholicand having left the faith let me point out a few things that I have issues with.
1. Church in one form or another been around for 2,000 years, has had two councils to "address" issues.
2. Not allowing ordination of women.
3. Hitler's Pope.
4. Anti-semitism.
5. Anti woman and anti-poor in general. (Refer to what went on in Central America and the priests that upset the apple cart, it happened not too long ago).
6. Really just a political organization.
7. Not following biblical doctrine.
8. Painting Mary Magdelene as a whore.
9. Coming up with "Christ Mass" to stomp out a pagan holiday.
That's just a few...
10. Oh wait, not dealing with the pervert priests...thats a biggie. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/12/2007 1:42:28 PM | I'm not against Roman Catholics. My grandparents are RC.
I just don't like they way the Vatican believes in evolution when it's completely unbiblical.
If they deny Genesis, then they deny all of Jesus' ancestors, God's creation and actually call Jesus a liar.
Read Mark 10:6.
If they compromise this, what else in the bible do they not believe?
(There are other things I disagree with, but this is the main one for me) | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/12/2007 2:00:43 PM | To rephrase the question: Are there Catholics who are against Protestants? I believe the fighting in Ireland has just about ceased. Am I correct? | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/12/2007 2:26:49 PM |
To rephrase the question: Are there Catholics who are against Protestants? I believe the fighting in Ireland has just about ceased. Am I correct?
The fighting in Ireland is at a low ebb after centuries of bloody conflict but there are a variety of reasons there not just religious but certainly that played and still plays a major role in it...and there was equal bias from Catholic against Protestant, however in the North, Catholic populations were far and away in the minority.
I just don't like they way the Vatican believes in evolution when it's completely unbiblical.
If they deny Genesis, then they deny all of Jesus' ancestors, God's creation and actually call Jesus a liar.
Read Mark 10:6.
If they compromise this, what else in the bible do they not believe?
It's pretty evident from a lot of the feedback on this thread that a lot of Christians of the "born-again" stripe do not regard Catholics as Christians...certainly for the longest time the Protestant Church did not...however I think it could be argued that mainline liberal Protestantism is no longer actively making war against Catholicism and an ecumenical truce has emerged between the faiths...
Obviously with beliefs like this in existence there will still be holdouts...
The funny thing is with beliefs like the Trinity, something that did not emerge until well into the first few centuries of the emergence of the Christian Church and can hardly be called an original "biblical" belief, no matter how it may be sourced by apologists later, it is retained by Protestants and "born-again" believers alike and is traditional dogma from Catholic teaching.
Ironic for faith groups that dislike and wish to divorce themselves from Catholic teaching. I'm sure a long list could be formed of similar beliefs/dogma that have been passed along from Catholic to Protestant and retained, while others are dismissed as "only tradition" and not "biblically inspired." The biggest of all being Biblical Canon. The current list of books considered to be "inspired doctrine" is purely the creation of the Roman Church, yet Protestant Churches never convened their own council to re-examine all of the Gospels in light of what could be construed the Roman heresy...
Instead they "cherry-pick" what is considered "heavenly-inspired" and what is "man-made-tradition."
Kind of amusing when you think about it...bit of a tempest in a tea pot for those on the outside looking in. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/12/2007 8:59:31 PM | | blady: any self-respecting irishman would tell you its not religiioue, the english came and and took the land , hilled raped etc... and to make themsleves look good they made it a prod verces catholic thing! and it snowed balled from there.when the irish target the ememy its not a prod its english! | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/12/2007 9:31:22 PM | Protestant comes from the word "Protest"
We protest the authority of the Pope
Most see Jesus as the leader of the Church, and haven't found a man his equal.
Some might protest the authority of the Nicene Council. (You don't take a vote on something and call it God's word)
Some protest the trinitarian concept. (I accept the wording in metaphorical terms and won't be bullied into accepting it otherwise)
Some protest the idolatry of the statues and the graven images of crosses. ( I think you can make statues and crosses, but you should pray to the father, not to a cross or a statue)
Some protest the inerrancy of scripture, which was a Papal proclamation.(Did God really create the world in 7 days? Is the Earth really flat?) | |
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Mia828
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Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 318 | |
| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/13/2007 5:21:54 PM | AH got love the titles of Religion. What ever happen to faith, turst and Love? What happen to Love one another? I don't think God cares what title you go by. A
ll he want from us is our faith in him.
Tell that to your so called Christian friend at work
I have many friends that are Catholics and some that are Christians, as well as other faiths that has nothing to do with my beliefs.
As for the Born again Christian, not all of them are like that. I know a lot of open-minded ones that don't judge other people. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/14/2007 8:45:28 AM | gotta: ok your protestant, so you do not have accept the athority of the pope, we are not asking you to! sir. to the Catholics Jesus is the church, is the faith! the pope is the leader.
the idolatry of statues( as you call it) now every nation has statues of their great leaders and teachers so do we! sir are you saying catholics have to have the crosses and statues to pray, if you are then sir, you do not know the catholics! we do so to remind us of his passion for us, to remind us of his teachings, the teachings that were brought to us by the saints, remind us that though his love we can proform mircles!
as for taking the scriptures word for word, for my life time and that of my father's the church has alwas said that when you read the scriptures there is a "personal" message from heaven for you!
the nicene council and the papal proclamation are of hundreds years old, is that what you base your objections to church on? you end your post with the question did God really create the world? and is the earth flat? pls! those questions were put to rest hundreds of years ago! for in the 15 hundreds the church stated that the measurement of time at the creation is unknown , that we cannot base the seven days of creation on the measurement of time that man created! as far as the earth being flat, i know for a fact that the church has not taught that since 1492, considering that the church give their support to isbell of spain in her backing of columbus!
sir, you base you r deabate on what the catholic church was, not what it is! | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/14/2007 7:08:15 PM |
the church has alwas said that when you read the scriptures there is a "personal" message from heaven for you!
Well, that's all I needed to hear. You can consider me of the same exact faith; but without the complex traditional rites, without statues, and without a leader. Of course you might also have a problem with my failure to accept "the trinity" as a literal, and my insistance that Baptism must be performed by full immersion in the presence of no less than two reliable witnesses, if it is to be performed at all. (It speeds receipt of the message, IMO) I actually think the message is pretty generic, but becomes really personal to the one who recieves it when he recieves it. Love God. Love your neighbor. Hate the worldly. I didn't need the Pope to proclaim it. I don't need his leadership, and I don't need to follow a man whose authority was compromised by the men and beliefs of the Church of the past, and whose authority is apparently based on bad grammar. I don't need the Pope to tell me how to act, but I do respect his power.
I also liked the last few Popes, but I like Buddha, and Ghandhi too. That doesn't mean I have to do everything they say or accept it as the revealed word of God. God reveals things to me personally. The election system that the Church uses isn't quite the same as a dictatorship, but it definitely limits the choice of candidates to a narrow field and apparently the term is only limited by life expectancy. I certainly don't need to argue with a Catholic about that, or any of the other things I mentioned, but it would keep me from calling myself Catholic out of respect for all of the Saints who opposed the Church when it wasn't going in the right direction. If it is headed slowly toward reconciliation with Protestants on these points, then there really is no "Christian" reason for either one of us to nag the other about it. We all have our personal crosses to carry, and unless the one that the Pope carries is going to solve my problems; I will have to continue to carry my own. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/15/2007 8:15:51 AM | gotta: don't you beat all, 1) trinity: the trinity is 3 spirits in one, the father, the son, and the holy spirit, God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit. God the father watchs over his holy family, his creation! God the son brings the salvation of God the father to creation, God the holy spirit is here among us watchs and protectus if we have faith.
2)baptism: full immersion is upon request, must Catholic churchs have a "baptism pool" just for those who would request it.
3)the pope:why are you just thinking of yourself ( you would not make a good catholic) others need the leadership, others need the pope to tell them things, we do not follow a man, but the faith he represents, the faith of jesus chirst
the church never said you should not like the ideas of other spirital leaders as you mention!the election system yelds a dictator! limits the feild? sir in the last election their were over 400 canidates offered according to the church history there were times when the field exceded 1000!
the "saints" as you call then who protest the church, dose this includ a real saint who protested the church in his time( St.Francis of Assi) the church is greatful now for their protest because it made us more aware of a commandment " thy shall beleave in me by thy own will"
the reconcillations , the door was "blasted wide open" by blessed john paul the 2nd he also built the foudation to bridges to the other faiths
crosses: i beleave in both letters of both St.paul and St peter you will find that the church teachings that each person dose have his own cross to bare of worldly problems, but though the church and the faith its a hell of alot easier to bare that cross!!
fyi: within the holy church their are many different sections; thr roman catholis, the irish catholics, the american catholics etc...each has their own way of praticing , but their is one common bond that brings us together we all beleave in the faith and in the teachings of the church. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/15/2007 9:16:38 AM | Discussions such as this are good for the soul. What I am reading ,for the most part, are differences of interpretation and differences of opinions generated from these intepretations. I believe, in my heart, that God did not use a "cookie cutter" to make all of us. We all have different fingerprints, therefore we are not to have the same mindsets. All of nature has some form of communication, plants as well as animals and humans. If all always agreed there would be no need for communication because all living things would already know what is going on. I hope to see these discussions continue in the respectful way that most of you are presently presenting yourselves . It is most unfortunate when we attact the person instead of respectfully disagreeing with their statements.
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/16/2007 7:17:48 PM | Religious fanatics are the problem, not Catholics or any other religion.
Fanatics will turn those around them off. I have had to deal for years with a fanatically RC mother who even drives the priests around here crazy. I wanted to leave the church as a teen because she was talking about apparitions, which I do not believe in. As it turned out, a priest friend told me that I do not have to believe in apparitions to be a Catholic. Whew, what a relief.
Over time I've gotten to know many people from different religions, and see the good in many different religions. I do have a beef with those who are of the "Religious Right" mentality. Basically they are religious fanatics who want their idea of religion forced onto our political scene.
I stopped going to Mass at one church because it was getting too political for my taste. A more moderate parish is located nearby, and I enjoy going there for Mass. The priest who says the Mass there is a good friend, as well. While away from home, I often attend an Episcopal church. I am not so devout a Catholic that I HAVE to go to a Catholic church. There may come a time in my life when I make the full "switch" over to Episcopal, but I don't feel the need to do so at this time. I enjoy going to both types of Masses, and get just as much out of both of them. The Episcopal side of me likes the married and women priests of the Episcopal Church, while the Catholic side of me believes in Purgatory. Guess you could say I am a moderate mishmash rather than being purely of one religion.
BEWARE of anyone who claims that their church is the only true religion! Some fanatical Catholics (and other fanatics as well) say this, which can turn those who are not of that religion off. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 2/20/2007 6:42:44 AM | | I just don't understand why Catholics are required to practice things that are not supported biblically. Such as celibacy for priest ( all the Old Testament priest were married, heck some had multiple wives/concubines), worship of Mary, confession to a priest, etc. Christianity is about a personal relationship with Christ , not a relationship via another person, in the form of a priest. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 3/14/2007 2:20:15 PM |
BEWARE of anyone who claims that their church is the only true religion! Some fanatical Catholics (and other fanatics as well) say this, which can turn those who are not of that religion off.
AMEN  | |
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