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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 9/9/2007 3:41:19 PM | First of all, I am a Christian and I am not Catholic and I feel that the contribution of the Catholic Church has been huge. The survival of the sacraments of communion, baptism and confession were preserved through many dark years of paganism. The care of orphans and widows is the meaning of religion and that being the case, the Catholic Church shines like a star in that regard.
Unfortunately the church itself has imploded over the centurys. The command for some not to marry, to obstain from certain foods and many, many other legalistic ideals have rendered the church divided and immobile. The hierarchy of the church has proven to be it's undoing as well. Hypocritical finger pointing and oppressive mandates have created a burden so heavy the tired old priesthood aqnd congregations have become powerless. It is sad to watch the last living dinosaur sink into the tarpit but it seems inevitable. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 9/9/2007 3:47:12 PM | | I have a Church of Christ background as well. I had to go. The humanistic accountability, the attempts to control, manipulate, shame and the constant bashing of other christians was just too much to swallow. Dont get me wrong, the doctrine is great, right on the mark, but they way they look at themselves and carry out their mission....nothing short of abusive. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 12/29/2007 1:17:24 PM | I've read some of these posts and some are correct while others are so very far from the TRUTH. Although I'm Catholic, I won't make judgements on others, but I will say that the reason's are all there for people to educate themselves. There is a long history of the Churches and how they split off from the Catholic church. Even the Bible was changed into different versions. I suggest the people really interested in the truth do their homework, don't take anyone's word for the reasons it happened. It is all there and if you don't understand something check it out yourself. It is a great story and one worth the journey. I took it myself and found all the answer's to my questions.
For those of you who are not Catholic and would like to hear others with the same questions as you. A great show to watch is on EWTN (The Eternal word Television Network) The show's name is (The Journey Home) hosted by Marcus Grodi. I'm pretty sure it comes on Monday or Tuesday nights. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 1/5/2008 10:50:59 AM | I am part of the whole body of Christ of Portland with no denominationalism at all!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey jimyg, have you read "Mere christianity" by C.S. Lewis?
It is a wonderful book!
Peace | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 1/6/2008 2:42:24 AM | | Isn't it more important to have faith than the politics of it?? The issue of Common Communion has been discussed amongst Catholics and protestants for years---at the church I attend (Lutheran)--ALL who believe in the triune God and Spirit are allowed to partake in Holy Communion. It is far more important to lead a Christian lifestyle than the name of your church. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 1/6/2008 12:17:31 PM | The generalized question, "why are Christians so against Catholics?," does not reflect my view of Catholics or any other Christian denomination. As far as I have been taught, Catholics are Christians too as they believe -as we Evangelicals do - that Jesus took our sins upon the cross. I have two friends who are Charismatic Catholics, believing strongly in the indwelling Holy Spirit, just as I do.
I grew up in a predominantly (Irish) Catholic neighborhood, and was exposed to their traditions simply through associating with the children raised with the Catholic faith. Though I wasn't a believer at the time, I had a certain respect for their liturgy and still do. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 1/6/2008 10:11:54 PM | I cannot believe all the incorrect information regarding the Catholic Church here.
It is rather unfortunate, actually. It would take me a month to go through the thread and reply to those who are misinformed. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 1/6/2008 10:20:44 PM | They don't "clam" [sic] to be Christians...by any common definition as found in a religious studies textbook they are Christians. And more importantly, they self-define as Christians. Keep in mind that some other group stating that they and they alone are the arbiters of who may be of the "One True Faith" is not only against the forum rules here, it is a logical fallacy (no true Scotsman) it is also just damn silly.
Someone may disagree with Catholic dogma or tradition all they like, but if they want to refer to them as not Christian, they can do it elsewhere because it is not welcome here.
See the Religion subforum rules (http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts7666528.aspx) | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 1/7/2008 8:37:18 AM | I was just saying smoething, sorry that i went against the rule's. I'm just use to anouther forum, so sorry if I offend anyone.
But the Catholics are the one's that started all this. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 1/7/2008 11:02:31 AM | Sorry, I didn't mean to bite your head off either...it was just a pre-emptive strike against anyone considering anymore anti-Catholic nonsense as there tends to be a lot of that around here. No harm done, no worries, you didn't do anything.
Let's shake on it  | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 1/7/2008 12:48:00 PM |
But the Catholics are the one's that started all this.
okkkkkkkkkkk
Has it crossed the mind of anyone else what a Christian is? It is someone who believes in Christ..
Therefore Catholics are still Christians.
DOH!
Maybe some people should have a look here for a little bit of explanation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 1/27/2008 10:48:02 PM | It might be of interest that many non-Roman Catholics also consider themselves as part of the universal Christian Church which exists since the founding of the faith by the apostles. The Orthodox Christians for example, regard themselves as the 'True' Catholic church and the Roman Catholics and the Protestants are technically heretics, but also in Anglican and Lutheran services I've been to, during the recitation of the creed you hear the words 'I believe in the Catholic Church and the Communion of saints' (adapted from the Nicene Creed). In the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church itself, anyone validly baptised is also a member of the universal church, though those validly baptised in non-RC churches are in 'imperfect communion' with the true Church, which is the RC itself (because it has valid apostolic succession).
'Catholic' means universal and its sense can be taken to mean Christians who are baptised in any denomination and follow the basic creeds set out by the early Church Councils. As to the term 'Christian' itself, depending on which branch of Christianity you follow it can mean someone who accepts Jesus as Lord and saviour and believes in the Bible, to someone who has been properly baptised. In my own view, a Catholic Christian is someone who:
1) Believes and accepts the Gospel and the basic teachings of Jesus as set out in the Gospel
2) Decides to become a part of the community of Christian believers by freely accepting baptism with genuine and sincere faith in the Gospel message and the teachings of Jesus
3) After baptism continues to follow the teachings of Jesus and worships regularly in some form of liturgical worship with other Christians (the recitation of the creeds and basic Christian prayers usually occurs in these services)
Clearly this definition should include Christians outside the Roman Catholic Church itself, including those who for whatever reason, do not undergo 2 or 3. I think the bare minumum to consider someone a Christian though, regardless of their church denomination, is they accept 1) strongly and mirror it in their living. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 1/28/2008 4:56:35 PM | Absolutely, Greg! I agree that #1 believing and accepting the Gospel and the basic teachings of Christ and mirroring it in their way of life is a good definition of who is a Christian.
I too consider myself Catholic in many ways, but I also share some beliefs with the Episcopalians who also confess a belief in a Catholic and apostolic Church. "Catholic" also does mean universal, and I also believe in universal salvation, along with believing that all religions have something good to teach us. So there's an element of the term "universal" that fits much of what I believe. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 1/29/2008 1:04:36 PM | I found a few lines in the Gospel of John where Jesus explains that God's doctrine will be known by those who apply the will of God into their lives. Those who's hearts are with God regardless of their chosen or circumstantially ordained branch of Christianity will find it petty to argue over discrepancies in worship rituals. It's your faith and the life you lead that matters.
John Chapter 7:
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 3/2/2008 5:56:17 PM | You people do realize that there are 42,000 different branches of 'christianity', do you not?
And that Catholics Eastern and Western disagree over which was first but that one brand of Catholic was?
But kudos to Garry1949.
I think everyone needs to commit Matthew 22:34-40 to memory. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 4/19/2008 10:30:37 PM | | Hello. Hopefully I can answer some of your questions. I am a Fundamentalist Christian (don't bother looking it up, because it is often defined incorrectly - basically it just means that the follower of the Bible has strong intent to follow it as our creator would wish us to, that it's words are to have great meaning, and should not be made insignificant. Fundamentalists can belong to a number of different sects of Christianity, and although most churches violate the scripture to one extent or another, there are usually not any true "Fundamentalist" churches that exist, so we gravitate towards the Church that does the best job at fulfilling the scripture.) There are likely problems with all the major organized Churches today, however, it is better to go to church and spread the truth, than to lock oneself in their home. (some Fundamentalists may disagree with that though). Anyway, one example a Fundamentalist would have with the Catholic Church is that the Bible teaches that we should not kneel down before mortal men, that we should kneel only for our Lord and savior. However, Catholics believe differently, and have ceremonies where they regularly kneel in front of their priest. To a Fundamentalist this is unacceptable, since it goes against what scripture has told us, and since we take the words of the Bible serious, it is not insignificant that this is happening, but concidered an abomination. However, Fundamentalists will not cause any riots over this...but may speak against it in order to tell others what they are doing is not in accordance with the word of the Bible. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 4/19/2008 10:43:42 PM | | Hello Christian friend. There is a distinct difference in your analogy. If you ask someone to pray FOR you, then that person is still praying to our Lord and Savior. However, if one prays TO a Saint, then they have REPLACED the Lord and Savior with a Saint, and that goes directly against the Biblical scripture. If you read closely, it is revealed that such an act of replacing the Lord and Savior with any mortal man is idolatry, which is sinful in the Lord's eye. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 4/19/2008 11:02:20 PM | Hello, ChristianFaith.
Allow me to provide an explanation for why our rites do things the way we do them. You said:
way, one example a Fundamentalist would have with the Catholic Church is that the Bible teaches that we should not kneel down before mortal men, that we should kneel only for our Lord and savior. However, Catholics believe differently, and have ceremonies where they regularly kneel in front of their priest. To a Fundamentalist this is unacceptable, since it goes against what scripture has told us, and since we take the words of the Bible serious, it is not insignificant that this is happening, but concidered an abomination. However, Fundamentalists will not cause any riots over this...but may speak against it in order to tell others what they are doing is not in accordance with the word of the Bible.
It's certainly not because Catholics are abominable, Bible-hating idiots. The Bible has many instances where bowing or even prostrating before a person as a sign of respect is perfectly acceptable. Allow me to demonstrate. Since fundamentalist Christians tend to prefer the King James Bible, I will quote from that version unless specified otherwise:
In Genesis 19:1, Lot greets the angels at his house by bowing to the ground: "he bowed himself with his face toward the ground."
In Genesis 42:6, Joseph's brothers bow before him: "and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth."
In Joshua 5:14, Joshua prostrates himself before an angel: "And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, 'What saith my lord unto his servant?'"
In 1 Samuel 28:14, Saul bows before Samuel: "he stooped himself with his face to the ground, and bowed himself."
In 1 Kings 1:23, the prophet Nathan prostrates before King David: "he bowed himself before the king with his face to the ground."
In 2 Kings 2:15, the sons of the prophets prostrate before Elisha: "and they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him."
In 1 Chronicles 21:21, Ornan bows before King David: "and bowed himself to David with his face to the ground."
In 1 Chronicles 29:20, the congregation bows to the altar to worship God, although they also bow in the direction of King David: "and all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshiped the LORD, and the king." This is similar to how in the Catholic Mass, the acolytes prostrate their noses to the floor when the priest consecrates the bread and wine on the altar to the Body and Blood of Christ. The priest is standing there, but the people are worshiping God.
In 2 Chronicles 29:29-30, King Hezekiah and the assembly bow before the altar and the sin offerings: "the king and all that were with him bowed themselves, and worshiped." Not unlike how Catholics bow before the Sacred Host in the Mass.
In Daniel 2:46, Nebuchadnezzar bows before Daniel: "then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshiped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odors unto him."
In Revelation 3:9, Jesus says that He will make people bow before the people of the church of Philadelphia: "I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."
I take the words of the Bible quite seriously as well. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 4/19/2008 11:03:17 PM | | Hi, I am a Fundamentalist. As a fellow Christian, I am trying to help people understand that we are in times of great deceit. Although Jesus is often referred to as being of great light, the anti-christ is said to use a great white light as a form of deception. Today there is a movement towards universal "spirituality", which is undoubtedly characterized by spiritual light. This is the beginning of people replacing the Bible with their own individual interpretations of right and wrong...and it is believed to be the deception of the many anti-christs. For if a person lives their life for themself, then they have chosen themselves over God, and this is of great sin, it is the denial of Jesus Christ our savior, it is the denial of all the words that have been given to us by our creator. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 4/19/2008 11:14:12 PM | ChristianFaith said:
If you ask someone to pray FOR you, then that person is still praying to our Lord and Savior. However, if one prays TO a Saint, then they have REPLACED the Lord and Savior with a Saint, and that goes directly against the Biblical scripture.
The traditional English meaning of "to pray" means "to ask". Hence, an Englishman in Shakespearean times would say, "I pray thee, "or I prithee" in short, to [pass the butter, or whatever]. Hence, if you're asking someone to pray for you, you are praying to him (meaning you're asking him). At the same time, no orthodox Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox ever worships a saint, because he knows that his Church quite clearly teaches that worship is directed only to God. Or, to provide a direct quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (published in 1992 under Pope John Paul II, it is a reference book of all major Catholic beliefs) under its section on the First Commandment:
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46
2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47
44 Mt 6:24.
45 Cf. Rev 13-14.
46 Cf. Gal 5:20; Eph 5:5.
47 Origen, Contra Celsum 2,40:PG 11,861.
There seems to be a lot of confusion in non-Catholic, non-Orthodox circles on how we treat the saints. We see them as elder brothers and sisters in Christ who have gone before us, and we ask them to pray for us just as we ask our living friends and relatives. For example, in the Litany of Saints, when a saint's name is invoked, we say or sing in response, ora pro nobis ("pray for us"). Or, in the Ave Maria, we pray, ora pro nobis peccatoribus nunc et in hora mortis nostrae, "pray for us sinners now and in the hour of our death." Saints cannot grant prayers, but only deliver them before the throne of God in heaven. Reference Revelation 8:3-4, "And another angel came and stood before the altar, having a golden censer: and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints, upon the golden altar which is before the throne of God. And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel." | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 4/19/2008 11:21:39 PM | | It is good that we both take the Bible without pride, and only to learn what our Lord desires of us. If I am in error then show me it is so, and you have done a justice unto me. I must admit some discrepancy still amongst us finding truth in the words. A question; Is to bow one's head to the ground the same as kneeling? One would have to bow their knees in order to kneel, not bow their head. If one kneels are they not looking upwards? If one bows their head, are they not facing the ground? Does not Satan tempt Jesus to kneel to him as if he is to replace God, and then Jesus refuses such temptation? (Matthew 4:9). Is there an occurance that is mentioned about kneeling towards mortal men, or is it true that kneeling is for the Lord and Savior only? | |
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