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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/16/2005 10:28:53 PM | Why do Christians hate Catholics, Why do Christians hate Wiccans/ Pagans, Why do Christians hate muslims, jews, or any other religion for that matter that is not the same as thier own????
Simple matter of the fact is that many of these religions were around wayyyy before Christianity, and the Christian faith have tried to take over all claims on what is right. They took over all the pagan holidays one by one and made them as thier own.
Christians want to make sure that everyone is following them, to bring in the bucks to thier congragations...to make sure the ministers are driving big expensive cars and living like movie stars, to make sure that they feel secure in thier own lack of faith. When it comes down to it, they really are scared.....
Thats my opinion on the matter. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/16/2005 11:07:31 PM | Jimyg, this: "...but someone took a translation aparently and tried to simplify it, as if Jesus didn't speak simply enough" describes virtually ALL the 'new versions of the bible. the KJV is probably one of the most inaccurant as there was much political influence in its writing.
Taurus, with this: "Take a close look at Catholicism with it's worship of Mary and the saints..." you are showing a lack of understanding of Catholicism and a common misconception regarding Catholic doctrine.
Shan, you're pretty much hitting the truth dead on. Thanks. :)
Sactowndude, Catholicism isn't a 'sect' of Christianity, it's the originator and by definition is for everyone. The word Catholic means 'universal'. That's the whole point. And there's a big difference between the 'people' and the 'church'. The 'church' is the ideology itself, basically.
13thPortal, you're not describing 'Christian', you're describing people. Christians, again by definition, 'hate' no one. If they are true to their faith they can not. Christians, like true Muslims, teach tolerance, forgiveness and to love everyone. I think that's cool. | |
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jimyg
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Joined: 1/6/2005
Msg: 53 | |
| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 12:02:35 AM | The first faith,
Adam and Eve had a relationship with God and didn't need religion,
THen they wanted to be like GOd without GOD, Indepentdent (an independent spirit which is rebellion or witchcraft --- the first religion was born), with that fist religion came insanity or no accountability (it wasn't me it was that woman YOU [GOD] gave me--- it was your fault and the woman's, and then she blamed the snake),
but GOD being good, took full responsability for His creation and said, the seed of the woman (Jesus), would come and crush the head (authority) of the snake.
then Cane came and being very religious killed his brother Able who was not religious or a witch, but followed GOD and heard his voice and knew GOD and knew what He liked.
Then finally Abraham came and said, "the Just shall live by trust," again doing away with religiion and witchcraft (ritual and rite), but the later Hebrews fell back into religion and lost the faith, but GOD sent the law to show them they were sinners, and made a sacrafe for them to cover sin until Jesus came and removed sin altogether.
Then Jesus sent his Holy SPIRIT so man can hear GOD again, but that has fallen into religion and reliance on the mind instead of the Spirit which is basic sorcery or witchcraft, and everyone does what is right in his own eyes. THe Holy Spirit teaches us all things, and if we likstened to him there wouldn't be denominations but only one church.
soon the great falling away will come and separate those that follow God and the spirit from those that follow the their mind, and look to scripture instead of first looking to the Holy Spirit.
after the apostles John trained Polycarp, and Peter trained Clement, and soon they trained someone else and all of a sudden the home churches that Paul and Barnabus Peter and Apollos started turned into Catherals and mixture with control and territorialism, and the Catholic church was born, a religion.
BUT GOD didn't leave some monks knew Jesus, and the desert fathers escaped religion and even the Celtic Scots came to them for guidence and miracles.
Hess rose up in faith again and said, again, "the just shall live by trust," the Catholic religion burned him at the steak, for trusting GOD.
and others came and a 100 years ago Smith Wigglesworth raise 23 people from the dead, and John G Lake healed 100,000 in SPokan, and mabe a million in Africa including whole bubonic plague collonies, and even went to a witches convention in England, and snapped his finger and levitators fell to the ground and snake people stopped stopped slithering and got up and found Jesus. Also Charles Price here in the NW also, had fingers grow back on people in the name of Jesus,
and now anyone who wants to leave his mind, religion, and witchcraft, can call on the name of the Lord, Jesus, and hear the Holy Spirit again and be a "son of GOD"
Jimmy
If we all listened to the Holy Spirit who teaches us all things then there would be one Church and no denominations at all!!! | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 5:27:22 AM |
13thPortal, you're not describing 'Christian', you're describing people. Christians, again by definition, 'hate' no one. If they are true to their faith they can not. Christians, like true Muslims, teach tolerance, forgiveness and to love everyone. I think that's cool.
Yes you are right, hate is the wrong word here. However, go to church for awhile, then stop paying your percentage and see what happens, you will be tossed out. The bible says do not judge; Christianity judges the most, declaring any other faith wrong, and declaring other human beings to hell of thier own accord if they do not follow the christian ways. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 5:42:02 AM | Taurus, with this: "Take a close look at Catholicism with it's worship of Mary and the saints..." you are showing a lack of understanding of Catholicism and a common misconception regarding Catholic doctrine.
Don't Catholics pray to Mary and the saints?That constitutes a form of worship as near as I can tell. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 7:06:00 AM | | I will say AGAIN. Praying to the saints is respect for their deeds (don't know all the saints or all their deeds) and I guess hope that they will have the same strengths. I don't for a second believe that mary was a virgin though even if it is blasphemous..... | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 7:22:54 AM | | Amen reverend...lol Strong views but good points. I have a similar veiw on the christian faith. I am not a practicioner of any religion (I think religion breeds hate) and I dislike it when some of the groups out there just will not lay off it. Its cool to talk about it and all but when we say Hey I just don't believe it or don't want to know or don't care to disscuss it further they come flying at you like they are a messenger from heaven and you must be saved soley by them and when ya" still don't take a bite they try their best to do their own little condemnation as if they were going to send you to hell themselves. It doesn't make any sense ya everyone get in on a conversation and say what you've got to but know that others will to even if you do not like what they have to say. Its like beating a dead horse and they jus' don't get it sometimes. Most of us let it blow in one ear and out the other and even if you tell some of them so they will still give it another go. Other religions are like a stepping stone for them they will find everything thats wrong with yours (not mine lol no religion) and forget totally that theirs is as flawed as any of the others and speeling on about it to somebody who is not interested isn't going to improve it any. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 9:10:45 AM | | 13th, I must say I've experienced that (getting tossed for non-payment) in many churches, but not in the Catholic church here. I am quite impressed with the local one. There's only one Catholic church (out of 6 total) I've been too that was all about the cashflow, and that was right smack in Vancouver. Not impressed. :) | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 9:15:28 AM |
Don't Catholics pray to Mary and the saints?That constitutes a form of worship as near as I can tell.
No, they don't.
And if any *people* are, they aren't supposed to and should know that. It's not rocket science.
That's exactly the misconception I was talking about. I wish people would check facts prior to making statements. (This is directed to people in general, not just you Taurus.) These people would be the first ones to jump up and scream foul play if I were to make some racist statement out of a lack of understanding, yet they go about daily making anti-religion statements with the same sort of ignorance. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 11:45:21 AM | Just Me....
Why are here so many statues of Mary in their churches?
Why is it thaat they come to kiss Mary's feet?
I probably shouldn't answer right now because I'm not in a good mood at the moment and I only have a minute, but what the heck.
As has been said, why do YOU pray to the Cross? Oh wait, you probably don't. Funny though, that's how it looks doesn't it?
Why do you pray to a bowl of water? Oh, wait, you don't, it's called baptism isn't it? Or is that praying to water?
Why don't you try to learn something about the subject before you spout off?
I am sorry I do not wish to go on with you here...
Typical self-righteousness, when you sense that you're getting blown out of the water you back off with 'I don't want to talk about it, WAAAAAHHHH.' Then, when someone else throws a bone to you, you jump on that and all of a sudden want to jump into the fray again with the person you didn't want to talk to before because now maybe you don't feel so alone and insecure. How predictable. 
I told you I was in a bad mood. :) | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 11:46:25 AM | @CStech,
I think you need to read a history book,there are many sects of Christianity and NO the Holy Roman Church isn't the first one:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/cults.htm
Speaking of the Holy Roman Church,I find it ironic that the Vatican is in Rome when it was the Romans who crucified Jesus. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 11:58:08 AM | Oooohhh.... CSTech... I see a challenge there! I guess you don't
know about your own religion as much as these guys do.... sorry. 
So what does this mean exactly?
Jesus assigned to Peter the responsibility of establishing
the Christian church. Peter traveled to Rome where he was the first pope.
At his death, his work was continued by a continuous succession of popes. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 1:11:04 PM | I believe christians and catholics are headed to the same place.... just taking a little different routes... peace.... ill see you there!!! | |
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jimyg
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Joined: 1/6/2005
Msg: 68 | |
| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 1:45:05 PM | Sorry,
but Jews weren't allowed in Rome, and Peter (Simon) was a Jew that's why we see Percilla and Aquilla having to leave Rome in the book of Acts.
IN fact some believe that Simon the Sorcerer (who was a believer) who Simon Peter the apostle, said to, You and your money go into perdition because you tried to buy the Holy Spirt, made his way to Rome and the Simon became the first pope.
I don't like to repeate things, but Jesus said, to Peter which in the Greek is Petro or pebel, on this Petra which in Greek is a totally different word and means bedrock completely different than a pebel, and meaning himself or Jesus himself, upon that he would build his church, and Peter or pebel had to finally come to himself and weep bitterly when he denied Jesus 4x and realised it's true nothing in Peter's soul could overcome it had to be the rock Jesus!
As for apostolic sucession it didn't exist the first 12 were called by Jesus and the other 7 or 8 apostles like Paul, Barnabus, and Apollos were called out by the Holy SPirit the same as today
no group of men sitting around voting or thinking will ever produce a apostle, the best they can hope for is a pope of which Peter wasn't.
When the Holy Spirit speaks and calls a man out there isn't any need to vote!!!!!!!!!!
Jimmy
THE early church met in homes and that hasn't changed either even though buildings are OK
Oooohhh.... CSTech... I see a challenge there! I guess you don't
know about your own religion as much as these guys do.... sorry.
So what does this mean exactly?
Jesus assigned to Peter the responsibility of establishing
the Christian church. Peter traveled to Rome where he was the first pope.
At his death, his work was continued by a continuous succession of popes. | |
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jimyg
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Joined: 1/6/2005
Msg: 69 | |
| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 1:52:17 PM | By the way the reason we meet in homes isn't only because the early church did, we meet in homes because Jesus told us to and we don't put a burdon of debt on anyone to pay for a building or anything else,
we just worship Jesus and see signs and healing, and miracles.
Jimmy | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 1:54:34 PM | So what does this mean exactly?
Means I think its pretty funny that you guys argue amongst
yourselves on whos version of Christianty is the right one.
And I think I may be routing for the Catholics.... | |
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craww
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Joined: 2/16/2005
Msg: 71 | |
| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 2:53:15 PM | the good ole pope......... in the nice costume, with the fish hat and everything, with some women all dressed in black with hoods on to help.....claiming he's appointed by god, waving a cross around...............scary.
i wonder why people can't tell that's scary? | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 3:52:33 PM | I'm coming in late to this fight..
While I read page 1 and 4, I just skimmed through the middle, so if I restate something, just fill me in or whatever..
Jimi mentioned that he didn't get the praying to the saints thing..
I think Catholics keep little figurines of saints and ask for their help not because they are praying to false idols, but rather because of this..
There's practically a saint for everything. At some point in time, there's been a human who stood out who overcame particular obstacles in any kind of crisis. For this, they were given sainthood and awarded a title. The reason folks pray specifically to these people is because they weren't the son of god and they managed to show fortitude and strength when faced with adversity. Basically, despite being flawed as all humans are, they acted like Christ would have wanted them to, and for this they are remembered. Catholics ask for their guidance in hard times when they need help in that area. I think the idea is to seek the strength they need in that moment by remembering that there was a human, like them, who faced the same obstacle and overcame it. This is comforting. The inverse is to say that they should be praying to Jesus Christ and not anyone else. I see this point too. Catholics do pray to Jesus Christ, but REMEMBER (key word there) the strength that Jesus was able to provide to whichever saint that's pertinent at that given time.
I think protestants will always argue that you only need one savior, and his name is Jesus. Catholics will always say, "He is our savior and lord, but the saints help give us strength".. Quite the knundrum..
one thing to keep in mind about catholosism is this: Those statues of Mary, Saint whoever, Jesus, or the apostles aren't idols that are prayed to. They are memorials. The statues are to encourage remembrance of that particular figure. When you see people holding a little figurine of Mary and are praying intently while kissing the little plastic thing, they aren't praying specifically to that little hunk of PVC. It's something tangible that gives them comfort. Alot like a blanky or something.. :)
if there's something that gives someone a little hope in a dark time, I'm for it.. little plastic figurine or not.. :) | |
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jimyg
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Joined: 1/6/2005
Msg: 73 | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 5:20:40 PM | | Craww how scary is it to revere a man who was famous for being tormented to death? I mean catholics are up on jesus too but we know that it wasn't pretty when he died. Do you have any idea how many christian cults there are or christain based cults? The mormins, jehovah's witnesses to name a couple. Now whats scarier than a bunch of people who force others into their cult by theese means: you catch more flies with honey. This being true they make it seem all nice from the outside then lure unsuspecting people in. Many young girls forced into bigomist marrages bearing children for a husband who has how ever many other wives. Some of theese girls very young teens being excomunicated from their families. Their hunting grounds are almost everywhere. Also catholics are not the only religion to cover their heads either does it not say in your own little phamplets that men in church should have short hair and women should have their heads covered? Yet almost every single depiction of christ has long hair, usually shoulder length and he has a beard. Hhmmmm...thats a little strange..Also the nuns habit is black as a sign of mourning to gods son, many cultures wear black for this reason, for the chinese it is white. Lmao..... | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/17/2005 6:14:14 PM | Sactowndude: I've read a LOT of history books, and I've also read versions of the bible in the old languages.
There are many sects of Christianity, yes, and the Catholic is not a 'sect' (ie: offshoot), it is the original. Not once did I or do I refer to the 'Holy Roman Church', as that is a geopolitical term. I refer to the Catholic (Universal) church that was founded upon the resurrection of a man named Jesus who was the Christ.
And yes, it is ironic that the Vatican is in Rome. The wasn't just done casually, there was a purpose in that. | |
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