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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 5/30/2005 11:02:50 AM | | Hey enviroconsious they are the same root base...they have many similalrities and its rather funny to me that you think catholics are evil. More christians have done evil in the name of the lord than I can count so I do not think its going to crush the catholics any that you point out the same flaw in them. They can atleast take what they dish out. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 9:46:43 AM | Cleo writes:
Hey enviroconsious they are the same root base...they have many similalrities and its rather funny to me that you think catholics are evil.
Cleo,
I think it's rather funny that you got that out of any of my posts, especially since they were defending the Catholic practices. Perhaps you should reread. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 9:57:36 AM | You wrote:
"So does hat help one with the misunderstandings of Christians"
Actually, it is the seriously the worst recounting of history I have ever seen. I looks like you basically transcribed bits from The DaVinci Code and other ignorant resources and mingled them together to create a bad piece of fiction. Any credible historian would laugh you out of the room.
The Black Pope? Money? Gold? Did you know that the Vatican has been running a deficit? Did you know that Pope John Paull II personally donated 2 million dollars to the poor before he died? Not likely, you probably don't read anything about the Catholic Church that doesn't surpass Jack Chick quality.
The Pope does NOT insist he is higher than Christ. He is his REPRESENTATIVE, HIS PRIME MINISTER, If you were at all interested in knowing the truth you would take the time to read his OWN words:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/index.htm
Pope John Paul II was a light in this dark world. He stood for justice and peace. He stood for the rights of the unborn, the elderly, the sick, the poor and every human being on this earth. He suffered tremendously in many ways that you will never know.
He lost both of his parents and his brother by age 21. He lived under Nazi oppression and had to attend an underground seminary for fear of being sent to a death camp. He also had to attend the underground theatre because the Nazi's outlawed all artistic expression that was not Nazi approved. He lost dear friends to Auschwitz.
Pope John Paul II, along with Ronald Reagan, single handedly brought down Communism in Europe. Mikail Gorbechav testifies to this.
Pope John Paul II was shot in an assassination attempt by a Islamic Turk. Later, after recovering from that gunshot wound, he entered his would-be assassins cell. He EMBRACED him and told him he forgave him. JPII even petitioned for his release from jail. He had cancer, arthritis, and Parkinson's disease. Many, many times he could have stepped down from leading the world's 1 BILLION Catholics, but he did not. He embraced the cross that was given him by the Lord, and he served faithfully to the very end. JPII is a great man of God, who constantly turned people's eyes and hearts towards Jesus. Rich? He lived in a small room with a bed and a table. When he died he was buried in a simple pine box.
It's an insult to a man who lived such a selfless, holy life to say the things you have said in your post. Shame on you for speaking about things you do not know about or understand. One of the reasons I am still a believer today is because of Pope John Paul II and how he always pointed to Christ and said "Do not be afraid." I will NOT let you mar his name and the name of the many holy Popes who came before him. I will not let you, in your Theophobia, attack my beloved Catholic Church and my Holy Catholic Faith. I will not let you attack the Holy Saints, like St. Ignatius and call them satanic. I will not let you attack the many holy people who do amazing works of charity, such cleaning maggots off of lepers with their bare hands, like Mother Teresa did.
You, who sits behind your computer screen and casts stones maliciously, claiming it is "truth". How many lepers have you cleaned? How many hungry mouths have you fed? How many people have you taught to read and write so that they can get a job and out of poverty and squalor? How many times have you stooped to pick up people who are lying in the gutter in their own waste so that they may die feeling loved as a human being?
That's what I thought.
So before you go spewing your hatred and lies for Catholicism and Catholics, just remember that you are demonizing the countless, selfless people who DAILY give their lives doing what Jesus said we ALL must do to be counted among the sheep:
"Then the King will say to those at his right hand, "Come, O blessed of my Father,
inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?' And the King will answer them,*** "Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to Me.***' " (Matthew 25:34-39)
Pax Christi,
theBaroness | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 10:57:51 AM | | Why is it that christians preech theese things to catholics and they already have that knowlage? Or speel a long speech of the true workings of christ? Its common knowlage that the formation of the catholic church came from roman rule. Does "ROMAN CATHOLIC" mean anything to you? So they are two parts of the same thing. Gee as if some of us haven't agreed or for the most part already known about most of theese things. I may not be ALL knowing about it but I can read and compare. Some of the things you say you imediately contradict. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 11:01:33 AM | Oh P.S. Just Me...
For someone who hates Catholicism and the Catholic Church, you sure don't mind quoting Her Saints when it suits you...
From your **own** profile:
"credo ut intelligam"-St. Anselm.
A bit about St. Anselm can be found here:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01546a.htm
Read, listen and learn.
Pax Christi,
the Baroness | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 11:17:29 AM | "Why is it that christians preech theese things to catholics and they already have that knowlage? Or speel a long speech of the true workings of christ? Its common knowlage that the formation of the catholic church came from roman rule. Does "ROMAN CATHOLIC" mean anything to you? So they are two parts of the same thing. Gee as if some of us haven't agreed or for the most part already known about most of theese things. I may not be ALL knowing about it but I can read and compare. Some of the things you say you imediately contradict."
Cleo, are you addressing this post to me?
If not cool, and peace be with you. If so, I would like to make a correction. There ***is no "Roman Catholic" Church***. It's just Catholic. The Roman "Rite" is one of over 20 liturgical rites.
Our beliefs are all the same. The difference is in the way we worship. It has to do with culture.
The Roman Rite is NOT a product of Roman rule. It is called Roman because St. Peter, the first Pope, went to Rome to preach the Gospel and start a Church there. He died a marty. He was crucified upside down. Rome is the final resting place of the first Pope, St. Peter, so that is where the "Seat of Peter" sits.
The Catholic Church was established by Christ Himself on the Rock of St. Peter. We can find this in the Gospel of St. Matthew:
"Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven." (Matthew 16:17-19)
No other Church can claim this legacy. No other Church can trace it's leader back in history to St. Peter. The Catholic Church can. There have been 265 Popes. For list of them all you can go to this link:
http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/articles/popelist.htm
Hope this helps...
Pax Christi,
the Baroness | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 11:27:31 AM | | I can also quote your biblical teachings. Oh like the only living things that have a soul or spirit are human. Follow him for he shall show you the way. I don't believe in any of it it just so happens I was baptised roman catholic. Its all lore to me all of it like I say all the time show me proof, undenyable proof. I do not need a book to tell me how to live and I most certainly will never bend my way unless that truth smacks me in the jaw with a clean upper-cut. I study things and a fav happens to be human behavior and many things tie into that dear so I am not in the I know more bible than you dooo...nah nah nah nah naahhh..I just think it is good to know a little at least of ones heratige and past and ancestory. Also debate is cool as well but I don't touch the bible over-reading sessions much because my nose is not wedged in one 24-7 and I don't feel the need to over-pride in its quoting either its pointless. I think the arguement will go on more so because christianity cares what we think of them but the majority of catholics couldn't care less what you think of them and that fact drives some of them mad. Catholics know about it yeah but they do preech it to everyone under the sun and then try and condem them with biblical quotes or tell them that they need to change their ways. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 11:41:08 AM | Sorry actually got baked and read several threads that contained your name...man I was reading alot of stuff like this: A lot of what is done in the Catholic church seems to be rituals.....man made......
I appologize for that memory short-coming...happens evry here and there for..umm..reasons that are caused by the usage of special brownies..while under the influence of the special brownie an individual can pick just one thing out like that my thing that day just happened to be your handle...
Vows to stop the influences while deeply involed in something that requires attention... | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 12:16:23 PM | the Baroness writes:
No other Church can claim this legacy. No other Church can trace it's leader back in history to St. Peter. The Catholic Church can.
They most certainly can....the Orthodox Church has Apostolic Succession as well. The Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church were the same until 1054 AD when the Pope changed the Creed of the Church and his role in the Church thus breaking away from the original Church and establishing the Roman Catholic faith. | |
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shrimp
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Joined: 3/10/2005
Msg: 161 | |
| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 12:40:27 PM | | some,not all,Catholics worship their pastors instead of GOD.No,Catholics are not all evil.Alot of the "so-called" pastors who have molested children are very EVIL. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 12:41:18 PM | Free writes:
Can pray to Mary and/or the saints to intercede for us to God...Ahh..
Neither the Orthodox or the Catholic deny that there exists one Mediator between God and man, nor do we deny who He is. However, I think Fr. Kallistos Ware, answers this question the best. He writes:
"In God and His Church there is no division between the living and the departed, but all are one in the love of the Father. Whether we are alive or whether we are dead, as members of the Church we still belong to the same family, and still have a duty to bear one another's burdens. Therefore just as Orthodox Christians here on earth pray for one another and ask for one another's prayers, so they pray for the faithful departed and ask the faithful departed to pray for them. Death cannot sever the bond of mutual love which links the members of the Church together." | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 1:26:28 PM | To add on to what "enviroconscious" said...
Hello all,
As a Greek who was born into the Orthodox faith...I have something to add about Greek Easter and the relationship with the Pagan holy day which takes place on the SPRING EQUANOX.
Most Pagan religions in the ancient Mediterranean region had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at, or following, the spring equinox. In one religion, Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a consort who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. He was Attis, who was said to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25; i.e. at the time of the vernal equinox in the Julian calendar. Sounds like someone we are know??? did you all think Jesus was the first to be resurrected?
Wherever Christian worship of Jesus and Pagan worship of Attis were active in the same geographical area in ancient times, Christians "used to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on the same date; and pagans and Christians used to fight bitterly about which of their gods was the true prototype and which the imitation." Since the worship of Cybele was brought to Rome in about 250 years before Christianity, it is obvious that if any copying occurred, it was the Christians that copied the traditions of the Pagans.
OK, just wanted to shed light on what I know about Greek Easter. About hating Catholics...Greeks under ROMAN rule became the first Christians when St. Paul brought the faith to ancient Greece. Since then we broke away and became Greek Orthodox. We have nothing to do with the pope. We have no such person that ranks that high as to place him next to god. I have no issues with Christians in general other then the normal stuff, but I do blame the Holy Roman church for some of the worst attrosoties started in the name of god...such as the crusades and the Spanish Inquisition to mention a few. And what about those catholic popes...don't get me started on that. But I will end it on a good note...the last Pope was one of the best ever!
-Mikel | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 3:24:52 PM |
In one religion, Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a consort who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. He was Attis, who was said to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25; i.e. at the time of the vernal equinox in the Julian calendar. Sounds like someone we are know??? did you all think Jesus was the first to be resurrected?
Attis was known as Dionysus (the god of wine) to the Greeks...they had celebrations for him almost every month of the year. Also, growing up Greek Orthodox you might remember that Greek Easter never falls in March.
Most Pagan religions in the ancient Mediterranean region had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at, or following, the spring equinox.
Yes, you are right. However, Greek "Easter" which is actually called Pascha comes from the Jewish Passover (Pesach). Since the Resurrection actually took place after the equinox the Church has determined it's celebration must also take place after the equinox every year.
The date of Eastern Orthodox Pascha was originally held on the same day as the feast for Passover each year, which was the 14th day of the lunar month of Nisan (on the Julian Calendar) no matter what day of the week the 14th was. But because the 14th could fall on other days of the week besides Sunday the date for Pascha soon moved to the first Sunday after the 14th of Nisan. Then the Jews switched calendars and the date for Passover became less predictable so the Orthodox developed their own system for determining the date of Pascha, following "paschal cycles" of the moon.
So although Orthodox 'Easter' falls after the equinox each year it isn't based on the Pagan rituals of the time. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 3:35:23 PM | You have not told me anything I don't know...and I get a kick when you say Pascha(PAS-XA). Are you Greek? LOL
Three things have to happen in order for Greek Easter you are right. The next full moon after the Jewish passover, after the spring equinox and always after the 25th of March.
Why is that?
How many people knew that Easter fell close to the biggest pagan holiday next to our Xmas?
I didn't.
I was shocked. I had no idea and there is something to it...like it or not. You don't think it was by design?
You don't think since people celebrated on those days anyway, why not let them...just chance the reason why...but let the celebration go on.
Coincidence??? perhaps...
-Mikel | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 5:31:36 PM | "That is the history of the roman catholic church.....
See a book called, "The secret history of the Jesuits" by Paris
I am not portraying any hatred, I am stating truth."
I am telling you that this is NOT Catholic history. Period. **I** am a practicing Catholic.
Anyone reading the drivel you post can see you don't know what you are talking about. First of all because you call it "Roman Catholic Church". There ISN'T a "Roman Catholic Church". Anyone with credibility would know this.
Secondly, you, an NON-CATHOLIC, claim to be telling the "truth". Any CREDIBLE historian would laugh you out the door.
As for your "resource" "The Secret History of the Jesuits" by Edmond Paris, it's a Jack Chick publication, meaning, that the same organization who publishes Jack Chick comics published this book.
Isn't it ironic...don't you think?
I stated in my previous post that you probably got your information from Jack Chick material. I was absolutely right.
For those who don't know who Jack Chick is, he is a recluse. The validity of his information has been high suspect. Some of the "testimonials" given by people such as the fictitious "Dr. Alberto Rivera" have been exposed as complete fabrications.
Even secular sites that have do not have a bias towrd religion see for what he is, a old man with a mental problem and too much time on his hands:
http://www.revolting.com/1.2/chick/chick.html
http://www.geocities.com/atypicalcommentary/tricktracts/index.html
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/04.02.98/comics-9813.html
( I have another one but I don't want to post the link because the site is evil. I don't want to lead anyone to sin by making it accessible. It's suffice to say that many non-religious people think Chick is a joke.)
Wikipedia says this about him:
"It should be noted that many Protestants, including many of the more mainstream evangelical Christians, find the views of Chick Publications offensive or embarrassing, and consider them to be misrepresentations or distortions of general Christian or evangelical views and values." (Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_Publications)
Here is what a Protestant website says about him:
http://www.cornerstonemag.com/pages/show_page.asp?228 (exposing "Dr. Alberto Rivera")
Here is a **very** anti-Catholic Protestant site who published an open letter to Jack Chick to **stop** publishing his "comics":
http://www.iconbusters.com/iconbusters/current/alberto.htm
Reputable Catholic resources have refuted Chick over and over:
http://mafg.home.isp-direct.com/jtchick/?N=A
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0210fea4.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0210fea4.asp (this one exposes "Dr. Alberto Rivera")
http://www.losangelesmission.com/ed/articles/2001/1201sf.htm
http://mafg.home.isp-direct.com/jtchick/jtc02r.html
http://www.catholic.com/library/sr_chick_tracts_p1.asp
So dear brother, you see that what you have posted is basically calumny. Bearing false witness against your neighbour is a grave sin.
If you are truly serious about truth; and I don't doubt that you are because I was when I was a Protestant who believed this stuff about the Catholic Church, you will go to **Catholic** resources to learn. You wouldn't go to a plumber for heart surgery, it is reasonable to say that you would not go to someone who knows NOTHING about the Catholic Church and Catholicism to learn about it.
God bless you brother.
Pax Christi,
the Baroness | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 5:43:27 PM |
but I do blame the Holy Roman church for some of the worst attrosoties started in the name of god...such as the crusades and the Spanish Inquisition to mention a few. And what about those catholic popes...don't get me started on that.
here is some info you will find interesting:
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ421.HTM#Inquisition(s)%20and%20Persecutions
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ421.HTM
God bless you brother.
Pax Christi,
the Baroness | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 5:49:28 PM |
You have not told me anything I don't know...and I get a kick when you say Pascha(PAS-XA). Are you Greek? LOL
I just found it interesting that a Greek would choose to cut and paste from a website about Attis instead of Dionysus. And yes, I am Greek Orthodox.
How many people knew that Easter fell close to the biggest pagan holiday next to our Xmas?
There are pagan holidays year round, so any time of year is bound to be near one. However, that does not change the date that Jesus was crucified, nor does it change the date of Passover which was 1000 years before that. And as far as it falling close to "the biggest pagan holiday" I don't see your point as I don't feel a holiday falling within two months of another one is close. That's like saying Pascha and Memorial Day are related because they are near on the calendar. And again with Xmas, yes the date chosen was also a pagan date, however that's as far as the ties go in the Orthodox Church. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 6:02:18 PM | Baroness writes:
There ISN'T a "Roman Catholic Church".
I always thought you called yourselves the Roman Catholic Church as well....since the word catholic is Greek for universal (as I'm nearly everyone who found their way to this post already knows). My Church, the Orthodox Church is catholic but not 'Roman Catholic'...
I am assuming that it is the same as the fact that I am Greek Orthodox, however all the Eastern Orthodox Churches are the same (with minor cultural differences). Is this correct? | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/1/2005 6:36:21 PM | Mikel writes
Three things have to happen in order for Greek Easter you are right. The next full moon after the Jewish passover, after the spring equinox and always after the 25th of March. Why is that?
1) As I explained before Passover no longer has anything to do with the date of Pascha, although they used to be the same. However the Jews use a similar method to calculate Passover which is also based on the equinox. This is why they occur near each other.
2) It occurs after the vernal equinox because Jesus was crucified after the equinox.
3) Where in the world did you get that date? The date the Eastern Orthodox fixed the equinox is April 3 (this is why Pascha NEVER occurs in March).
The actual means of calculating Pascha are by algorithm. However to simplify, it is based on a 19 year paschal cycle. Greek Easter occurs on the Sunday after the first paschal moon (not full moon) after April 3. | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/2/2005 1:06:06 PM | The late Pope John Paul II worked tirelessly to mend the 1000 year old rift between the Orthodox and Catholic Church.
Baroness, you are so right...and that's why many Greeks liked this Pope. He did try and as you might have seen during his funeral the Greek Orthodox church as well as the Russian church paid homage to this great Pope.
I have many issues with "the church" but I do respect others rights to pray.
-Mikel
Ooops, where did you thread go??? | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/2/2005 1:17:30 PM | enviroconscious writes:
I just found it interesting that a Greek would choose to cut and paste from a website about Attis instead of Dionysus. And yes, I am Greek Orthodox.
You are funny, and you are right...I should have use the name "OSIRIS" since I do believe it's older??? LOL
Either way the point was this... the celebration of this pagan holiday which by coincidence(I think not) fell during the same time as EASTER. Maybe not Greek Easter since that does change from year to year. But the date of the pagan holiday is on the same weekend. You can disput this all you like, it's a fact.
-mikel
harika poli | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/2/2005 1:29:59 PM | I don't know...
I worked so hard on that too...
Just remember that I consider the Orthodox Christians to be my closest brothers and sisters in Christ, there is very little that is separating us.
Pope Benedict XVI has pledged to work just as hard to restore unity to the Orthodox and Catholic Church. I can see the schism being mended by the time he passes on.
Pax Christi,
the Baroness | |
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| Why are christians so against catholics?
Posted: 6/2/2005 1:50:31 PM | Catholics and non catholic Christians are like brothers.Often there is sibling rivalry but they come together against outside agressors. The same is true of many philosophical variations in MOST religions.You just happen to live in a area where Christianity is the most widely professed,therefore you happen to witness the internal issues.If you lived in Lebodan,Syria,Iraq,Pakistan,India your perspective would be different.
I also want to note that the non Roman Catholic Christian tradition did NOT all come from Roman Emperror Constintine "converting" to Christianity.There was an Ethiopian tradition and church BEFORE the advent of a papal seat in Rome.There were churches in Syria that were vital to the development of all branches of Christianity in a sense. | |
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