| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 9:37:05 AM | | I had kids. They were perpetually confused by everything around them, and even by their own actions. I would not worry about confusing the children. Confusion is their natural condition. It's a good idea to offer an explanation so they can be happily confused rather than distraught. "He left because you would not keep your room picked up!" Might as well incorporate the event into some useful lesson about tidiness. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 9:55:03 AM | I read this and didn't even read others post prior to responding.
It is NOT even something that should be considered if your not married.
I have no idea what motive she could have for wanting you to adopt her children outside of a marriage.
Here are some reasons I have seen or heard about.
If you adopt the children and break up you ARE more than likely going to be responsible for some form a child support. Given the fact the father doesn't pay this could be a motive for her wanting you to adopt them.
I ran into a woman one time that had 3 kids by 3 different fathers. She joked about the fact when tax time comes around she gets a crap load of money all at once cause she lets them claim the kids and then takes the tax refund checks ( trust me there are women out there that greed is their reasons for basing parenting choices) please do not think i am thinking this may be her reasons since like i said I do not know her
I may not know her, however that is a very SERIOUS commitment to even be considering when the marriage commitment has not even happened.
Don't ever consider adopting her children if your not willing to adopt her AKA Marry her
For her to even suggest that step outside of marriage is a HUGE red flag and not the thinking of a sane parent whom is considering what is best for the children.
YES I know some will likely think I am being too judgmental here which is not my normal thinking but I was just floored when I read that she suggested you adopt her children so casually when there isn’t even a ring on your fingers and a formal commitment to the LIFE long DUTY she asked you to perform.
Regardless of your choices the words you use to express your concerns will likely stick into her thinking.
I would suggest the response of "I think that commitment is reserved for couples that are married"
or maybe a comment like
"I am honored that you would consider me worthy of adopting your children but I feel we must grow our family unity in the correct stages."
OR
"That level of commitment is not in line with our current stage of relationship development"
Good luck, she has stuck you in a difficult spot and the words you choose to use will have an impact on your future together. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 10:32:05 AM | I did have another thought for her motives in bringing it up so soon
Women in general are kinda strange sometimes (yes men too) But given the fact she is a single mom, It may have been a strange form of shock judging on her part.
Since it is clear you two have some communication issues that need to be addressed first, she may just not know where you two stand together as a couple and whats in store for the future.
By saying a comment like that she may be testing the waters to see if you will tuck tail and run away from commitment.
I am suspecting she may be worried if you will be around for the long term, and maybe that was her way to try to either cause you to grow apart or closer.
I get the impression things may be a little stagnant and hanging in the relationship growth and I have discovered single moms or single parents in general are not content with just allowing relationships to maintain at a constant level.
When kids are involved most would likely wish to see a growth and a blending happening on a regular basis.
From reading what alot of single parents talk about on the forums it is clear that very few would be happy if things just maintain. Most would likely expect the relationship to progress to the next level much faster.
And yes i am a single Dad i am not here talking about single parents in general without understanding the dynamic of a single parent life.
I have raised my son since he was a baby and he is now 8 years old. I still would have a hard time thinking it was acceptable to someone adopting my son even if i were married to her
So she may just be fishing for a ring and a life long commitment from you by letting you know she is ready for you to be in her life perminatly.
Kinda like a SHOCK you into a choice. Maybe she knows darn well you shouldnt adopt unless your married, thus being her whole point for bringing the topic up to begin with.
Would a judge really ALLOW a man to adopt another man's child if it is just a boyfriend and not a husband?????
I would think that marriage would NEED to be required before a judge would consider allowing the adoption. If not then it is clear the children were not the judges main conserns | |
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cquirk
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Joined: 5/17/2007
Msg: 79 | |
| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 11:41:13 AM | Dr. Phil would say, you should have thought about that before you made the decision to move in with her. The truth is you sound like a very genuine guy who cares for her,and her children,but are having all the same fears and anxieties other men go through. I think your main concern is No you legally have no ties to those children nor does she,but by you being there you have already commited to providing food shelter,and safety to those children. The rest is up to mom. Now what you need to decide is, do you intend to marry this woman? and if not you must leave now,the kids will only get attached,and you will all be devistated if you wait! Good luck,pray about it ,and i think it will work out -Chanan | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 12:48:04 PM | no one is reading the post, as the op has updated, he talked it over with the gf and moved out.
Here's my thought on this after the update:
I think it's wrong to push the significant other to adopt his/her child without properly asking and discusing things. Demanding and say, you should adopt them is just too pushy IMO. Especially when you just moved in, you're still adjusting to something new, so why bring another element into this.
But with the laws different in each country, I can understand how things may affect things differently than in the States. And I can see how SOME single parents may use it to their advantage. If those who are anxious over it, just make sure you know the law and know the limitations before you seriously commit to a relationship with kids. If you already know that you dont' want to be financially responsible for someone's child, then to put it simply, dont' date single parents. Then you won't have to worry about it later on when you're with someone if they are taking advantage of the system. I'm saying this with the knowledge of the laws in Canada. But if you don't mind the financial responsibilities later on, then go for it but take things slow.
My advice is that when it involves kids, before moving in, realize that you're not just investing in your relationship with your signficant other, but also to her/his child. Fact of the matter is, adoption shouldn't be asked til after you marry them because it's a big responsibility not just financially but emotionally. I would like to think that you'd want to commit to the relationshp first before commiting your kids to someone else for a long time. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 2:32:52 PM | Doesnt the actual father have to give up his parental rights first before another man can adopt his children?
Sure he may be trying to get out of paying child support but he may not be willing to give up his rights to even see his children.
You might not be able to legally adopt them in the first place so it could be a mute point, I am not sure concerning the laws in your area. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 3:02:17 PM | | I have children and all but one are adults they have a father .I have been single 21 years never in all the years that I have been single have I asked another man to adopt my children.I was once in a long term committed relationship of 10 years and yes when we lived together I did not expect him to share in the responsiblity of my children PTA, other functions ,taking them to the doctor,spending money on them but he did and I did the same with his children.When the relationship ended and my children called he will still helped them if he can.Any adoption ideas should come from you.Her job is to teach the kids to respect you, its up to you to forge a relationship with them.But if you have any doubts about your relationship with the mother or the children move back out until you resolve them.Because if you don't some child will end up hurt. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 3:26:54 PM | | I think I'm correct in saying that you can only adopt a child if the biological parents are either dead or agree to give up all rights to the child. It doesn't sound like this is the case here if the father still sees them regularly, so I don't really think adoption is in the equation. She does seem to be jumping the gun a bit, no matter how complete she wants the current scenario to be, cos surely adoption (if it were possible) wouldn't come into the equation until such a time as marriage was discussed? Don't jump ship because of this though. Face the arguments and talk to her. Explain how you feel (maybe saying that you don't feel it fair on their father etc), but that it doesn't affect how you feel about her or them. As for the financial responsibility bit - can't say I'm too sure of the legalities. However, if you're not married and you split up, I can't see that you'd have financial responsibility to the children, unless you did actually adopt them. Good luck! | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 3:27:58 PM | If you already know that you dont' want to be financially responsible for someone's child, then to put it simply, dont' date single parents. Then you won't have to worry about it later on when you're with someone if they are taking advantage of the system. I'm saying this with the knowledge of the laws in Canada. But if you don't mind the financial responsibilities later on, then go for it but take things slow.
My advice is that when it involves kids, before moving in, realize that you're not just investing in your relationship with your signficant other, but also to her/his child. Fact of the matter is, adoption shouldn't be asked til after you marry them because it's a big responsibility not just financially but emotionally. I would like to think that you'd want to commit to the relationshp first before commiting your kids to someone else for a long time.
You see I wouldn't have had a problem supporting her or the children if lets say, she lost her job or something happened. Things like that I did expect and wouldn't have had a problem with. Also if I had married her and something were to happen that (damn I don't even want to say it) left the kids without their mom, I would have still supported them even though they have a dad.
As I said I wouldn't have moved in with her if I didn't think marriage was the road we were taking. I would have had no qualms with "stepping up to the plate" and being a positive male figure to the kids (in fact I think I already was).
While I was/am scared and feel I'm not ready I don't believe anyone ever is really ready for parenthood. The important thing was I was willing to learn and try, I never expected it to be an all or none situation so soon. I had in fact expected, due to our talks on the subject, that it would be in baby steps and that was ok. Turns out it wasn't and not even on the parenting level but on the monetary level as she said she wants "security".
In the end this all came down to; do I believe (as much as I can) right this moment that she is the "one" and we won't end in divorce, risking a percentage of my earnings over the next 13-15 years?
In my mind the "choose now or lose me forever" demand just proved that she wasn't. I feel that finding "the one" is not a race and you should never be pressured into making a decision such as marriage. Then again our discussion (her and mine) wasn't even about marriage but adoption, this in turn made my decision that much easier.
Thank you for your comment wanderbaby. I appreciate you talking with me not at me. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 3:42:06 PM | | my thoughts on this as a single mom i wouldnt want my b.f adopting my daugther mostly cuz im selfish like that i really do like being me and my baby girl it has always been just us and i really do like that. my other thought on this is my cousin met a man married him after x amount of time at their wedding they told my cousins daugther he was marrying her too wich i thought was cute but again thats a big differance to the guy im dating and maybe i wana spend the rest of my life with but im not really sure at this point to the guy of my dreams who i plan to spend the rest of my time with. i think ur better off seeing where this goes if it leads to marrage she would already have u screwed so whats the differance second because dad is in the pic would he sign over rights because he would have to allow u to adopt them personally me in ur situation i wouldnt | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 5:21:39 PM |
You see I wouldn't have had a problem supporting her or the children if lets say, she lost her job or something happened. Things like that I did expect and wouldn't have had a problem with. Also if I had married her and something were to happen that (damn I don't even want to say it) left the kids without their mom, I would have still supported them even though they have a dad.
As I said I wouldn't have moved in with her if I didn't think marriage was the road we were taking. I would have had no qualms with "stepping up to the plate" and being a positive male figure to the kids (in fact I think I already was).
While I was/am scared and feel I'm not ready I don't believe anyone ever is really ready for parenthood. The important thing was I was willing to learn and try, I never expected it to be an all or none situation so soon. I had in fact expected, due to our talks on the subject, that it would be in baby steps and that was ok. Turns out it wasn't and not even on the parenting level but on the monetary level as she said she wants "security".
In the end this all came down to; do I believe (as much as I can) right this moment that she is the "one" and we won't end in divorce, risking a percentage of my earnings over the next 13-15 years?
In my mind the "choose now or lose me forever" demand just proved that she wasn't. I feel that finding "the one" is not a race and you should never be pressured into making a decision such as marriage. Then again our discussion (her and mine) wasn't even about marriage but adoption, this in turn made my decision that much easier.
Thank you for your comment wanderbaby. I appreciate you talking with me not at me.
I agree, when you know the relationships going forward and finding the one, there shouldn't be a race or pressure to jump into things fast. I guess it's a good thing this happened now than later. It does suck that she didn't value the relationship as you did.
good luck in finding the "one" | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 6:43:17 PM | Ok hun, I gotta say something. I am a single mom, And Im going to give you the straight goods. RUN FOR YOUR LIFE< DONT LOOK BACK< DONT FEEL BAD!!!
I get that you have been with her for two years, I get that you live together now, I get that the kids dad isnt the greatest, BUT THEY HAVE A DAD!! You dont need to adopt them, thats just her trying to gain financial responsibility from another man, other than the one she chose as the father to her children, Its her second chance at getting child support. IF you love her and split the household bills, thats all you are responsible for, and any responsible mom would say and do the same thing. Why? Because we can, will and have survived before the men in our lives, and will be fine after they go. Why? Because its part of being grown up and accepting that we are single parents. Until you are married she has no right to ask for anything. And if you decide to stay and in the future get married, be prepared, SHE WILL RAISE THIS TOPIC OF DISCUSSION AGAIN.
Sorry I was so blunt, Just thought Id give you the straight goods from someone who has seen this whole thing go down with some of my male friends
Listen to the song Gold Digger by Jamie Foxx and clarity will come!!! | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 6:45:49 PM | | Oh and one more thing, whether you live with her for more than 90 days consecutively in the same residence you will pay her, because she will screw you in court. If you reside with her with her kids, you are screwed a lil worse. If you adopt her kids, you are on the line for them until they are 21. Sorry just wanted to let you know how the law stands, Everything has a legality behind it. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 6:53:55 PM | I would take yummymummy's advice, not only is she hot but she is bang on with her input.
You can be as much of a father figure to her kids as you like, if you enjoy being that father figure to them as they enjoy you as a father figure that is more than enough. Adoption is not a way of showing love for them, actions are more than enough! Good luck and be wise. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 7:23:52 PM | hmmm. Something about that bothers me...She is not a widow. Dad would have to agree. If dad agrees, it is probably because then he is relieved of his financial duties. I think you need to start looking around to see if there are other clues that this is not all it seems.
Definitely not something to consider at all, unless you are married, AND, I think the children should have a choice when they are older and understand it better. I think steps should have to earn the title of parent, not just be handed it. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 8:29:38 PM | i have to tell you if you have doughts dont do it , and you should never have moved in , when i was a kid my mom who was single got remarried there was 3 of us and my step father loved us like his own kids he bought us stuff , kissed and huged us , and when we were bad yeah he spanked us , and we loved and respected him like our dad , if we got hurt he would worry and take care of us, being a parent is a lot of resposabilty and if you dont know the best thing you can do is tell her and i think maybe you should move
a single mom wants a man to love their children as theirs you know the happy family thing , so think about before you do it, if its just your afraid ask for more time be sure cause its not just the mother you will hurt its the kids and thats the part that matters even more, my name is masterpiece2 i f you want to talk just look me up ok, good luck! | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 10:05:19 PM | Okay I have read the entire thread and know you are moving out, but let this be a lesson if you even discuss changing the child's name to your or adopting them you can be helds in "loco parentis" in other words being forced to pay child support for a child that is not yours if the relationship breaks down.
I think this woman is just looking for another support check, run as far away from her as you can and do not speak to her again.
Here are the guidelines (I am copying and pasting friom a differant thread):
Standing in the place of a parent
48(1) A person is standing in the place of a parent if the person
(a) is the spouse of the mother or father of the child or is or was in a relationship of interdependence of some permanence with the mother or father of the child, and
(b) has demonstrated a settled intention to treat the child as the person’s own child.
(2) In determining whether a person has demonstrated a settled intention to treat the child as the person’s own child, the court may consider any or all of the following factors:
(a) the child’s age;
(b) the duration of the child’s relationship with the person;
(c) the nature of the child’s relationship with the person, including
(i) the child’s perception of the person as a parental figure,
(ii) the extent to which the person is involved in the child’s care, discipline, education and recreational activities, and
(iii) any continuing contact or attempts at contact between the person and the child if the person is living separate and apart from the child’s father or mother;
(d) whether the person has considered
(i) applying for guardianship of the child,
(ii) adopting the child, or
(iii) changing the child’s surname to that person’s surname;
(e) whether the person has provided direct or indirect financial support for the child;
(f) the nature of the child’s relationship with any other parent of the child;
(g) any other factor that the court considers relevant.
So based on these guidelines do not agree to adopt the children or you will be S.O.L.
She was trying to play you for a sucker in my opinion. If she truely wanted you to adopt her kids she should have waited at least a few months (but less than 6 months) to see how things were going, but what really makes me think she is a gold digger is that the kids already have a father...I mean who gets someone to adopt a child when both parents are in the picture?
In my opinion you should see a lawyer and make sure your behind is covered. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/20/2007 10:09:27 PM | to beerbag,
I have read all your posts and I would first like to say...you are a very caring and sensitive guy. I have also read all the replies to your origional post...and I hope the negative opinions of the political and financial aspects didn't affect your decision to move out and give up on this lady you obviously had some deep feelings for.
You don't strike me as a stupid man. It is obvious that you were aware of the possible future financial responsibility you may have if you two were to break up sometime in the future....regardless of the bio father's involvement.
Unlike everyone else...I interput your girlfriends request more like a gift than a demand. You don't have to adopt them...but I think on her part it was more of a gesture of her feelings towards you....and let me tell you...that is one hell of a gift!
The messages we send are all in the delivery...you felt trapped....maybe all she meant was to make you feel like an important piece to her puzzle...that included you, and her and the kids!
Not all single women are out for finacial security....but we are all of the same mind when dating with children...day to day stability. As a Mom, I know my kids are an extention of me...and I want to know if the person I choose to be seriously involved with could share any and all responsibilities that are in my life...as I would want to do the same for them.
You waited two years to move in..I am sure you knew what the score was with moving in with a woman with kids...I think you took something she meant more of a gesture..(and perhaps a little test) as an ultimatime....wish you luck
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/21/2007 6:16:37 AM | Lizbeth:
You seem like a very kind lady but there are some women out there looking for the next "daddy" to entrap. I know not all are like this but many are and the way that the OP describes the way this woman brought up the subject and when seems like she has the shovel out and is digging for gold. If she truely is giving this man a "gift" why not wait a little while to see how things are going? If they are going great then bring up adoption...but even that has a flaw because the children already have a father and that father needs to sign over his rights. Why upset the kids by saying Daddy will not be part of your life, here is your new daddy?
A better idea would be to get suport from bio father and leave this man as step dad and try to make the relationship work. That is how it should be done.
If the father was not in the children's lives at all maybe then you have a point, but the father is alive and while the OP ways he is not the greastest dad he is still a dad. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/21/2007 9:41:23 AM |
If the father was not in the children's lives at all maybe then you have a point, but the father is alive and while the OP ways he is not the greastest dad he is still a dad.
Child support aside the kids dad is a great father. When he has them he buys them toys and clothes, takes them out all the time during visitation. Why he doesn't pay her I don't know (I never asked, it's not my place) but the amount he spends on them every two weeks has to be a few hundred bucks at least.
If after two years you aren't ready for marriage and everything that comes with it then you are not with the right person. (one of my best friends beats this into my head regurally). And actually I think it's only 1 year.
Don't you think any preconceived time line to marriage is rather arbitrary?
Hell even marriage counselors say you don't truly know a person until you've lived with them for two years.
Seems too me that a 1 year deadline is jumping the gun to say the least.
Just so you know I'm not attacking your views here, only having a friendly conversation.
I've found ( lol and been guilty) that it's easy to take offense to another opinion online because one can't see facial expressions or hear the inflection in the others voice. It's easy to take things the wrong way. | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/21/2007 7:08:25 PM | | hey I am a single mother myself and let me give you a bit of my insight if you may. Now of course this is just my opinion but it might help.. Firstly you can't adopt the children without the biological fathers permission.. and are you going to ask him?... Second you would be liable for child support or I mean you could be set by a court of justice to pay support if you did adopt them and then split up. It sounds a little selfish for your girlfriend to ask you something like that without any notice and then getting angry. I not matter what unless it was brought up by my guy friend that is was any interest to him doing that. My daughter has a father no matter how bad he is. Justhaving you there being a great influence to the kids should be enough. Her kids are lucky to have a male influence in the house whether you are there father or not. It is only a peice of a paper that could get you into a whole lot of trouble if you were to break up. Just be cautious and don't rush into anything like that without speaking to a lawyer first. If she really loves you she should understand.. Hope that helps | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/22/2007 9:18:21 AM | Well SelenaNJ, you my dear are not alone! My son is 14 and it has been just me and him since he was born. I wouldn't even consider letting someone adopt him. I know my son wouldn't want it either.
Just my gut feeling, beerbag, if I were you I'd run as fast as I could. It sounds to me like she has formed a plan. Do her kids even know she has mentioned adoption? They might not even know about it. If that is the case, why would that legal action mean anything to the kids. They already have you in their lives. Just be careful!! | |
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| Well I just moved in with a single mother and kinda have a few questions
Posted: 9/22/2007 2:15:03 PM | i can tell you from my experiance my dad didnt need to adopt us to be my dad my mom brought it up once while they were talking about getting married but they would need my sperm donors aproval and decided against it
he has always been my dad from diapers to riding my bike to going after the only guy i ever dated that ever hit me
i think you need to explain to her that although you do love the kids its not a step that needs to be taken right away then step up your involvment with the kids take them to the park buy them each a kite that was a great memory of mine
plans outtings with all you guys like the zoo or go feed the ducks then mom can see your going to be the role model she needs for her kids without having to sign papers to prove it
perhaps suggesting bringing up the subject again in a year or so if it means alot to her | |
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