Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > anti-american and anti-christian on here      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 76
anti-american and anti-christian on herePage 4 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

Well, I'd like to keep our industries going, but I'm certainly supportive of our crybaby neighbors actually doing more than just complaining. Sounds good!


A completely meaningless statement.
 marathonman11x7
Joined: 4/29/2005
Msg: 77
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/16/2005 3:20:31 AM
I'm not asking for it to be returned
To post intelligently sometimes it helps to know the context to which replies were made

Follow the post or not...it doesn't matter to me...move on
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 78
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/16/2005 7:23:45 PM

Marathonman- It's ancient history..mooooooooove on. It's done, over, we're not giving Texas back. Sorry.


So basically, anything is okay with you, as long as you're okay.
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 79
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/16/2005 8:04:40 PM

Umm, no. That's a large assumption on your part.


No, it's not an assumption. I'm going by what you have posted.
 acburbank97
Joined: 4/23/2005
Msg: 80
view profile
History
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/16/2005 9:14:46 PM
JAXSTUFF...thanks for the help...cool statue of Buddy Holly also...live in Lubbock?
 acburbank97
Joined: 4/23/2005
Msg: 81
view profile
History
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/16/2005 9:22:00 PM
Sarita...this country was founded by a bunch of white, christian guys of European (mostly ANglo-Saxon) descent..if you're still mad about this, I don't know what to tell you. Christian religion has been an issue is this country since it started...it can be argued effectively, it is WHY it was settled in the first place.

Most laws come from a religious base..
 acburbank97
Joined: 4/23/2005
Msg: 82
view profile
History
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/16/2005 9:45:16 PM
Marathon Man

1) Sam Houston was a NUT!!! all of us know that here, heck he kept his own wife under house arrest. I never brough up Sam Houston...I'm not a fan, I said Stephen F. Austin

2) Of course they were Americans...thats where they came FROM when they settled Texas, whats your point?

3) People have been debating back & forth for years about how many latinos/ Tejanos were in the Texican Army, my point was their contribuation was significant.

4) I never brought up Mexican politics, I was talking the Republic of Texas

5) Being plantation owners has to do with??

6) Sorry you are wrong, Texas joined the Union by TREATY, not by annexation...go to Austin, visit the capitol, and look at it!! We STILL have rights no other state has like 20 miles offshore instead of 3.

7) WHo cares if Mexico ratified the treaty, we won and were fucntioning as an Independent country, and they couldn't stop us. The Texas Declaration of Independence was signed at Washington on the Brazos during the seige of the Alamo in 1836, thats when we became and independent nation. The US declaration was in 1776, but the war was not won until 1783, so does that count as the year.? NO The USA never ratified the treaty of Versaille either, does that mean the central powers didn't lose.

8) the Republic of Texas covered parts of New Mexico, Colorado also...look at a map!

9)Of course we sided with the CSA in the war between the states, we were a slave stae, whats your point?

10) Thomas Jefferson made the phrase Manifest Destiny popular, and with the Louisiana Purchase in 1803 we were well on our way.

11) Great Britain aboished the slave trade/ slavery in 1820, not long since..but again what does this have to do with anything?
 darjeeling
Joined: 3/11/2005
Msg: 83
view profile
History
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/16/2005 11:34:42 PM
...this country was founded by a bunch of white, christian guys of European (mostly ANglo-Saxon) descent..if you're still mad about this, I don't know what to tell you. Christian religion has been an issue is this country since it started...it can be argued effectively, it is WHY it was settled in the first place.


AC,

Being of Native American heritage................ I really gotta remember to thank my lucky stars that a ' bunch of white Christian European guys *founded* this country.

I think you also asked in an earlier post for 'countries' wherein the US government overthrew and occupied the land, or installed a friendlier 'puppet' system ?

Every contact with the indigenous people of America was considered to be conducted on grounds of seperate tribal identities and each was considered to be a Sovereign entity and should properly be considered Sovereign Nation States. Since you lord up the 'special relationship' Texas has to the rest of the Union based on 'Treaty' status, perhaps you would begin to see the folly of your claim since nearly every single Treaty the US negotiated with the indigenous Sovereign Nations, were violated by the US governement, the agents and signatories of those formal agreements.

The Treaties were violated continually and routinely, and based on 'Manifest Destiny' carried out by the use of force.

Yes....... I am *still* mad about this. To some ............ this is not ancient history.

As for not 'knowing what to tell' someone who is so, perhaps some simple honesty with yourself about the 'founding of the country' would temporarily suffice as well as exhibit some foundational tidbit of Christian values your side is so fond of trumpeting about.

Lastly, the whole reason there is the constitutional clause to not creating state sponsored religion, was drafted for, and with the intent to. ...... PROTECT the Christian religion from undue governement interference. The Christian community at the time was instrumental in establishing the clause and properly fearful of being dictated to by a State sponsored religion, as happened with the Church of England.


darjeeling
 acburbank97
Joined: 4/23/2005
Msg: 84
view profile
History
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/16/2005 11:42:30 PM
darjeeling,
I was contradicting Marathon Mans rant against/ about Texas history without any regard whatsoever about the Natives who inhabited this land for 1000's of years before us. If it came off as insensitive I apologize. The genocide/ extermination and complete disregard for the native peoples rights in this country (and Canadas) is along with the institution of slavery the great tragedy of our history....
 MajMikeW
Joined: 10/9/2004
Msg: 85
view profile
History
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 8:13:50 AM
darjeeling

As a (amatuer) historian I readily acknowledge the many treaties (all of them) which were violated by the expansion of America, as well as the virtual extermination of the native peoples (by incidental disease or intentional violence). By today's standards there is no excuse for this, and the cultures/knowledge lost to mankind can never be replaced.

A few comments though:

Most Indian tribes had forcibly invaded the lands they held at the coming of the white man and taken them from earlier peoples. A state of constant warfare existed between most of the tribes, as the only way to become a "warrior" or to gain wealth was to raid and count coup and steal horses (or whatever).

Also, while some tribes had begun agriculture to various extents, most depended on large amounts of land to sustain their nomadic lifestyles. As the European settlers saw these lands their culture of concentrated settlement and land cultivation simply couldn't fathom all this land being left fallow (to their eyes). Whereas it might take up to a thousand acres to support an Indian family (via hunting and gathering), the settlers could take 40 acres and develop it and support themselves, which of course allowed them to support much larger populations. It was simply a matter of a more efficient culture pushing out a lesser one (not that the culture was worth less, just inefficient compared to the Europeans), as has happened around the world from the beginning of time.

Add to that the discovery of gold in many tribes lands, the railroad, and the cattle and timber industry, and the end was predestined, they simply couldn't compete. Also the white man's way of lying (or being betrayed by other white men in a well-meaning treaty) to get what they wanted, and our method of sustained warfare was something the Indians didn't understand until too late.

Please understand that I am not trying to justify what happened to our native peoples, I hate to think of all we (mankind) have lost. I am proud to say that I have some Cherokee blood myself, although a very small amount (great-grandmother), and wish that things had been done very differently, but in the perspective of history what happened to the Indians was no different from the rest of the world.

MajMike
 BBRedhead
Joined: 5/16/2005
Msg: 86
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 9:40:01 AM

The reason christian americans get bashed is in reply to their own bashing of everyone else who isn't both christian and american.


Ah, Thank you! I couldn't have said it better myself.
 acburbank97
Joined: 4/23/2005
Msg: 87
view profile
History
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 1:14:09 PM
I think that is in response to the constant attack on everything conservative Christians hole dear...not that I agree with everything they do, but see their point...
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 88
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 4:40:30 PM

Whereas it might take up to a thousand acres to support an Indian family (via hunting and gathering), the settlers could take 40 acres and develop it and support themselves, which of course allowed them to support much larger populations. It was simply a matter of a more efficient culture pushing out a lesser one.....

but in the perspective of history what happened to the Indians was no different from the rest of the world.



No, it did not take 40 acres to support a First Nation family. Not all First Nation peoples were nomads. Many tribes lived in adobe houses, earth houses and long wooden houses. (These can be seen in natural history museums, for those who live in a city with culture. I don't, I live in Florida). These were all permanent housing. Those First Nation peoples who were nomadic, generally moved from site A to site B, then back to site A, then back to site B, and so on, back and forth depending on the season, just like the old snowbirds in Florida, who go back up north in the summer. Birds do the same. Some followed the buffalo on their natural travel. In all these they set up a tipi or wigwam. Their life styles were not inferior simply because the Whites wanted to steal their land.

I sense that some of the justifications you provide can best be described as White privilege or White right. Long before today, I'd heard comments such as, “Well, they were nomads”, “Well, they were *only* using a part of the land anyway”, “Well, they did not have the superior White culture”, “Well, they were not perfect”, and others, used to justify what was done to First Nation peoples by Whites who believed (and believe) it was their right to do so.

I think the worst thing that happened to the First Nation people is that in the U.S. today, the true story of what Whites did to First Nation peoples is still not being told. Any time anyone attempts to tell it, White apologists say history is in the past, why bring it up, let’s just forget about it. Okay, fine, but if history were really in the past, and unimportant, and we should just forget about it, why then is White history being taught in schools? Plymouth Rock? The first colonies? George Washington? The founders of the White government? Reason is that Whites are writing history and they only want to hear the good parts... about Whites.

Here’s a thimbleful of truth about the First Nation peoples in the U.S.:

In the 1490s, there were approximately 15,000,000 First Nation people living in what is now the land called the U.S. They had been here thousands of years. Approximately 750 different languages were spoken by First Nation peoples.

Then the Whites landed.

By 1776, there were 2 to 5 million First Nation people left.

By the time of the 1,900 Census, there were approximately 237,000 First Nation people alive. That’s an extermination rate of almost 99%, and it was as systematic a holocaust as The Holocaust of the Third Reich. The White history of this nation is filled with its systematic plans, plots and ploys to destroy the First Nation peoples. They designed it as carefully as an architect designs a house.

From the 18th to 19th Century, the White govt. made approximately 370 treaties with First Nation peoples. Almost all 370 were broken by the White govt. in order to get away with violations against the First Nations, usually involving stealing what little land was left to the First Nations. Between 1776 and 1800, the White govt. stole Indian land holdings to the tune of reducing it by 95%. The reason used by the Whites was called, “Manifest Destiny.”

The term Manifest Destiny was from a 12/27/45 editorial in a newspaper, which said basically that it was "manifest destiny" for Whites to spread to the whole continent and own it. In the eyes of the Whites, this meant that it was “God's will.” It gave Whites a perfect alibi. "God" willed it that these atrocities be committed against First Nation peoples.

This was easy in part because the Whites considered the First Nation people to be inferior to begin with. For example, in the Declaration of Independence, the instrument in which the Whites declared themselves free from oppression by outside nations, the people they had oppressed and were still oppressing, First Nation people, were referred to as “Indian savages without mercy” or some such thing.

Nowadays, conservatives find it highly politically incorrect, and very insulting that anyone should mention the White extermination of First Nation peoples.

The only history ever taught to children in the U.S. (including First Nation children) is that pilgrims landed here, worked the land hard, had a happy Thanksgiving with the “indians” and made a “great” nation. The truth is concealed to protect the descendants of the guilty from feeling guilt, as if feeling guilt were wrong somehow (which it isn't). However, by concealing the truth, we are lying. Lying, as we’ve all been taught, is wrong. Further, the descendants of Whites need to understand that there are still problems very much alive today and caused by their ancestors, and these need to be addressed now. One such problem is that First Nation people are the poorest racial/ethnic group in the U.S. The first step in addressing it? The lies need to stop. Even Germany teaches about the Holocaust in its gory detail. The holocaust of First Nation peoples by Whites needs to be taught in all U.S. schools now.
 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 89
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 4:48:26 PM
Steal from the rich?
You are a criminal.
Steal from the poor?
You are a CEO

Terrorize the rich
You are a terrorist
Terrorize the poor?
You are a president.

The deck is stacked...... and some still deal off the bottom.
 MajMikeW
Joined: 10/9/2004
Msg: 90
view profile
History
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 6:13:15 PM
sarita

I wasn't trying to justify what happened in any way, and when I discuss efficiency of cultures I am not referring to relative worth. All peoples and cultures are worthy of existing, but a human tendancy to project their own values upon newly met peoples has had similar results throughout history, just as we 'back judge' history through the prism of modern mores.

As you might remember, I called the genocide against indigenous peoples exactly that, and I never said that 'white' culture was superior or had any 'right' to do what they did. But, in terms of relative efficiency, and with the difference in how warfare was conducted (seasonally and in limited scope by the Indians - continuous and total by the whites) that it was inevitable that the "native culture" be subsumed by the American explosion.

I agree that this part of history should be taught in our schools, but deny that our existing 'white' population should bear guilt for what happened. Just as with slavery, neither I nor any contemporary Americans had a part in either of these horrors, and I refuse to be included in this politically correct, collective 'white guilt' syndrome.

Perhaps that wasn't your intent, and if so I beg your pardon, but I have simply tired of this issue and so may a bit sensitive to suspected accusations.

MajMike
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 91
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 6:27:47 PM

Perhaps that wasn't your intent, and if so I beg your pardon, but I have simply tired of this issue and so may a bit sensitive to suspected accusations.


If you're tired, imagine how tired the victims of this genocide are, of Whites flippantly saying they're tired of hearing this (even when it's only brought up in passing).
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 92
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 6:30:23 PM

I refuse to be included in this politically correct, collective 'white guilt' syndrome.


Politically correct is what Whites demand of society, when Whites insist on being spared from having to hear any of the gory details of what this country meditatedly did to millions upon millions of people. Sorry, but we're not talking about mannequins here, or some pictures in a book. These are/were real humans.
 GuyInTally08
Joined: 11/17/2004
Msg: 93
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 6:38:41 PM
Let's face the white people won, they wrote the history books and they still leave out the atrocities commited in the face of Manifest Destiny
 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 94
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 6:42:50 PM

Let's face the white people won


Nope, they just ended up on top, ......this will change, ....hence: Fear, fear = hate.

What a person hates is a good indicator of what they have to loose.
 fatty429
Joined: 10/31/2004
Msg: 95
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 6:58:04 PM
Excuse me! This continant was already occupied when the first white anglo saxson ventured onto the rock.So,maybe we should all just let it go!Nothing was discouvered,cause it was already here and had the spanish not landed in south or central America first and wiped out almost an entire civilization some 600 plus years ago,things would be completely different.So lets move on cause I don't care what colour,race,religion or ethnic back ground you are for I AM CANADIAN! And thats all that matters.
 SaritaTallahassee
Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 96
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 6:59:58 PM
Okay, break out the beer then
 BulldogMedic
Joined: 12/31/2004
Msg: 97
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 7:08:47 PM
The Indians killed the native, noble bison that were here millions of years before them. It's a shame that the Indian culture of death and destruction wasn't more respectful of those who were here before them.
 late™
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 98
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 7:10:32 PM

The Indians killed the native, noble bison that were here millions of years before them


Cite?
 GuyInTally08
Joined: 11/17/2004
Msg: 99
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 7:13:56 PM

The Indians killed the native, noble bison that were here millions of years before them. It's a shame that the Indian culture of death and destruction wasn't more respectful of those who were here before them.

Yes they killed them, and fed off of them, and wasted nothing. A small village would hunt a couple of bison. It was a matter of the food chain. The whites however, wiped out the bison. An entire bison herd would essentially be wiped out in a day. Partially due to the fact that they knew that the native american population based much of it's food supply on the Bison. Big difference between hunting for food and resource and killing just because you can.
 fatty429
Joined: 10/31/2004
Msg: 100
anti-american and anti-christian on here
Posted: 5/17/2005 7:33:23 PM
Are you on glue? The Bison where wiped out by the white man for plessure.The aboriginal people used the bison for food and shelter not sport.You moron!
Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > anti-american and anti-christian on here