| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 9/25/2007 6:28:24 PM | Conversation conveys hidden agendas these days?
Wow! You mean if I start talking about things like the weather...It means that I am a psycho with loads of issues, and are probably trying to conceal it all...eh?
In that case..."It's a dark and stormy night ahead of us...and you can't do anything to stop it!" | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 9/25/2007 11:00:20 PM | @Unfortunately the art of listening is lost to many
^^^ might be Belgarion but sometimes its the topics that are choosen. I tend to love talking bout self help in any areas, or music and dancing, or writing or anything else except for politics...hmmmm...thats another story....lol, not challenging enough for me.  all others topics, you got my attention.
seems most think just because we have talked theres expectation at some point...please! say what? just two people enjoying each others conversation, its refreshing sometimes to have someone to talk too, rather then talking to my walls or dog.. she looks at my funny like i am nut..sigh..lmao. | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 9/26/2007 6:52:18 AM | i like the end of your post man!! i know what your saying there, i have ran across that many times, i have initiated a convo with some women and they right away think i am trying to bed them!!
lol
and all i ask them is how they are doing and i would like to get to know them and as them if they would be interested in chatting.
lol | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 9/26/2007 7:43:09 PM | (giggles) thanks Ndnspyter, i only speak the truth.
Op@ the women I have approached so far, most have been blunt or direct in refusing communication, for reasons of their own.
^^^ its their loss then isnt it? they saved you hours of talking to getting know where. | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 9/27/2007 8:52:51 AM | Krimiariver:
A note to men: she wants you to listen, actually listen to her and she does not need you to respond with your solution and fix for all of her problems. Listen.
Oh, rock ON ... I thought I'd NEVER use this communications degree.
Allow me to step in and tell you how to solve your communications problem ... ;)
Here's the deal ... what you've actually described is a -fantastic- example of gendered communication.
Quick clarification ... gendered communication refers to masculine and feminine archetypical traits ... it doesn't -necessarily- refer to the biological sex of the participant. Both sexes have and use both masculine and feminine traits in communication.
I really wish I had the test we took to gauge gendered communications, because how the scores are interpreted is pretty cool.
In a nutshell, you take one of the typical surveys that rates how strongly you feel certain reactions and situations apply to you ... similar to the surveys here.
Then you come away with two numeric scores ... one rates how masculine your responses were to the questions that gauged that dynamic, one rates how feminine your responses were to questions that gauged that dynamic. The test we had used spit out a handy 1-10 score for each.
If you scored highly on either or both spectra, you tended to be more communicative in general. Comparing the two scores then told you if you were more of a masculine, or feminine gendered communicator.
Anyway, the point being, the masculine archetype tends to process communication in a goal-oriented 'fix it' manner. The feminine archetype tends to process communication in an empathic 'listen and appreciate (not necessarily agree, but appreciate)' manner.
With your comment above, you may very well both be -very- communicative people. In fact it sounds like he -is- listening and understanding and responding to you, but he's responding in a very masculine way without as much competence in recognizing/responding in a feminine way as you'd like, and, I think that by implying that he -should- be coming back with a more feminine style, that you have a similar difficulty coding/decoding responses back using a masculine style.
The issue isn't that there's no communication, there seems to be quite a bit, there's just a lack of a comfort level with the other's natural style.
You understanding that he tends to code things in an actionable, task-oriented way (problems to fix or instructions to give (for her, to show her I care)), and his understanding that you're shooting for a sympathetic ear instead of an armored knight will come.
Really cool (for me) to kind of see this pop up in print elsewhere.
-John | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 9/27/2007 9:11:14 AM | Iamreal4u;
Unfortunately, I tend to agree with this sentiment. Especially the two way chat. Pat of it is talking, another part is listening. Or at least trying to listen. Listen hard.
In the movie "The Maltese Falcon" Sydney Greenstreet said something along the lines of talking takes practice. If you don't practice, then you get lousy at it and say the wrong thing at the wrong time and in the wrong way. Sure it's a paraphrase but it seems to make sense to me.
Even when we try to have decent conversations, people seem to find it sooooo longggg and soooo boooring. So we adapt by keeping it short.
I can't put my finger on it, but part of it is the media that we are exposed to on a daily basis. TV, radio are often in short sound bits or talking points. That is how we are programmed, so that is what we do. That may be a lame answer, but I'm sure that smarter people than me can add their thoughts.
my 0.02 | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 9/27/2007 11:00:07 AM | The last POF date I had about all the fellow could talk about was money and how his ex did not want sex or affection after they got married. This was a coffee dat for heaven sake. I barely knew him and was not about to talk about money, my ex, or sex. I thought it was gauche. My judgment was he was anxious about having lots of sex and if I could take care of myself financially. it was quite a turn off. Those are things I will share if I get to know someone but not on a coffee date.
Good conversation to me is about being interested in the other persons life. It moves from the innocuous to intimate that takes time and trust. Perhaps in this fast food culture we are in too much of a hurry to share the intimate details of out lives. The sad thing is we miss a lot of really great people along the way because of our need to rush into intimacy.
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/7/2007 1:17:53 PM | Conversation is very important, But when u get one liner emails after uve been emailing a few times, it kinda makes u think whats the point?
If your going to chat to someone atleast answer the question and keep it going with one of your own, Mmm that seldom happens here, which is why i guess im still single.. | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/7/2007 1:48:15 PM | Well, when you meet someone that you have a real mental connection with, it just works. It's easy. Even if you both talk alot, you CONVERSE, ask questions, listen, pay attention, get involved, not just sitting ther nodding your head, uh huh yeah uh huh.
I do believe this is the # 1 red flag whenever you meet someone. If someone is the total opposite of you, it will show up in conversation. Who wants to be in a relationship with no mental connection? | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/7/2007 2:46:33 PM | | I for one have given up trying to chat with anyone on POF,one rainy saturday i spent 4 hours in the morning trying to get one woman to chat a bit and got nada! I'm pretty well read,read the news every day,and am nothing but a gentleman in my conversation,it was not random chat i read the profiles ,decide there might be some common ground on which to work ,introduced myself using the I.C program and got nothing but rudeness,chat windows closed on me and so forth. On many of the profiles they expounded about how much the valued communication, oh well talks cheap as they say so i went back to re-spooling fishing reels,real fish are more interesting anyway(and you can eatem) | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/7/2007 3:24:19 PM | semilucid:
... i spent 4 hours in the morning trying to get one woman to chat a bit and got nada! ... (some editing for brevity) ... introduced myself using the I.C program and got nothing but rudeness,chat windows closed on me and so forth.
It's laziness on my part, but I leave the IM on even though I'm sure 90+% of the time I won't actually use it when an offer pops up. I work from home most of the time, and while I'm working, sometimes I'll be logged into the forums here, or I'll just forget I ducked in to check my mail and whatnot, and still have the browser tab open. Boom, the window just sits there unnoticed.
And hell, sometimes I don't want to talk to anybody.
The point being, just because IM is turned on, doesn't mean I want to (or am even available to) chat with anybody that happens to be online too.
What I completely don't get is being bent out of shape when the chats are denied, and then being surprised at getting handled rudely after you've persisted for four hours.
If somebody can't or doesn't want to chat, drop them a mail, let them know when you'll be available, arrange a time to talk. If they respond, you'll likely find a way to make it work, if they don't, you've just saved yourself a Saturday morning headache. Win/Win
I look at just starting up chat windows with the other participant not forewarned to be very similar to telemarketers calling my house. It's not usually a good thing.
-John | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/7/2007 8:07:37 PM | Maybe it's the company you keep that is the problem.lol
I love to talk,so dating someone who is open minded with conversations is
key for me. | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/7/2007 8:49:52 PM | | I don't consider typing messages back and forth online conversation. Absolutely people are forgetting how to converse face to face and I believe it is because of the internet. I am outgoing and have no problem talking with people but when I'm in a room with other people and start a conversation 9 times out of 10 they look at me either surprised or dumbfounded and have no idea how to respond. I've also messaged back and forth with men online who were funny, smart, intelligent and had no difficult y expressing themselves while behind a computer but when we met in person they could not keep a conversation going and could only manage short yes no answers. We are losing our social skills. It started with TV and now the internet. Very sad. | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/7/2007 9:00:03 PM | I can agree with the original poster.
I also believe that asking certain questions gives us an opportunity to get to know more about someone. I believe that the way these questions are worded is very important, and may vary from person to person.
The art form for me is properly wording or asking questions. | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/8/2007 3:51:04 AM | conversation is not a lost art form what is a lost art form is actual people you wish to have meaningful conversations with and what people do for fun now.
Also this so called womens trait of able to hold like 8 different conversations at once is not just limited to women alot of men can do it as well.
and you can get inflections on what someone is saying on a msn conversation it just takes the ability to read what people say.
I have a friend who said I read her better online then most people do in person and she will use the same amount of words for it. | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/8/2007 4:25:17 AM | What has been lost concerning conversation is the ability to really listen.
All too often people use the time, when they should be listening, to formulate their own answers.
That causes many nuances and often part of what is actually being said to be missed. | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/8/2007 3:50:31 PM | I believe that emailing a while before you meet, is a good start.
Sometimes face to face we clam up with nerves and say things that we wouldnt normally say and may come across different than we really are.
By emailing yes you can have a conversation and thinking before you type really brings the real you across. You then decide wether or not you think its worth meeting. Then when you do meet, you kinda get an idea what your both like. But when you meet and get the whole picture, if that little gremlin with the watering can is there to put out the spark, it aint happening anyway.
Its a funny world, everyone is different, some feel comfortable talking on the phone and emailing, others prefer face to face at such an early stage. And theres a lot that want to know its worth giving up an evening for. | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/9/2007 11:01:25 AM | A great conversation to me starts by wanting to get to know a person for who they really are. Asking questions and being very inquisitive about all subjects is the best way...at least for me. It not only sparks more topics to talk about, but it also allows the other person to really open up and think about what you are asking them. I would want the same from the person that I am speaking too. E-mailing is a great starter especially for those long distance relationships. Once you are comfortable with the conversation via e-mail, then you can exchange numbers and get into much deeper, more meaningful talks which you can use as a foundation for a great friendship and ultimately a strong loving bond with someone.
I am very interested and intellectually stimulated by a very loving man on POF, and he admitted to me in the beginning that he is the shy, quiet type. He was very surprised by our conversations because he was telling me things that he would not normally talk about with someone that he has never met in person. We talk for hours on the phone. We say that we will only talk for a few minutes because its already 1:30 in the morning, and we end up hanging up because its 5:00, or because the cell phone battery has died. LOL!
Now that is an awesome conversation!!!  | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 10/9/2007 1:46:53 PM |
What I completely don't get is being bent out of shape when the chats are denied, and then being surprised at getting handled rudely after you've persisted for four hours.
Not the same person for 4 hours Einstein,a wide variety of people,and chatting on a dating website with folks who's pics say "IM user" can hardly be compared to telemarketing, | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 2/1/2008 8:05:23 PM | | Not sure what you mean by hidden agendas and expectations. Perhaps you need to try expanding the typical criteria of a woman you message. Many women on here prefer to just have conversation. :modhammer: | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 2/4/2008 9:42:47 PM | It always frustrates me when I was talking with a girl and all she says for the next two hours are:
Lol
Heh
cool
It's nerve racking. | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 2/4/2008 9:49:49 PM | I was being a smart ass on another chat site and I wrote this about two years ago. It was in response to some people complaining about guys coming in to a chat with "ASL"
Now, picture old skiping film and the "50's educational film voice"
I'm here to tell you about this great way to spend hours pleasing a woman over chat and have them stuffing your message box with invites to chat later or, even gifts.
It's called "Intelligent Conversation". Now, I understand for for some, this will be harder than others. Part of it requires having a wide range of interests. The other part is to be able to make it sound interesting. You can gain a wide range of interests by reading, or participating in activities that do not involve your computer. However, sites like Google and wikipedia can provide information while you are chatting and supplement your knowledge of your interests.
Now, a good way to start off a conversation, is to ask them what kind of things they like to do or how their day was. From my experience, women like to have people take interest in them for more than their bodies. A lot of them are quite intelligent as well and have interesting hobbies too. After you ask them, and this is very important, wait for them to answer. This answer they give you will give you a wealth of information. You can also base your response or next question on what they say. Usually, a show of further interest, or even being able to associate similar experiences is a good start.
Usually, if you are lucky enough to get an interesting and intelligent woman, she will ask you about your interests in return. Be honest. No matter how geeky or nerdy you may think your hobbies are, chances are, they will will listen and try to show some interest since you were kind enough to do the same for them. I have also found, they will actually find it interesting. Some of them are even surprisingly in to the same sort of things.
Once you have established that you have are either A) Interesting, or B) Share some common interests, start treating them like a friend. As you get comfortable with each other, share funny anecdotes. Funny things that happened to you as a child or something funny you saw that day. Everyone likes a good laugh. The occasional sexual innuendo is even OK, but don't be lewd or crude. Their response will tell you what level they are comfortable with.
At the end of the conversation, if they have not already, ask if you can friend them. This will also indicate if they really did enjoy the time spent with you. You can look at their site to see if they friended you too.
If you practice, you will get better, but in the long run, your friends list will be full and your evening will be busy. I have also found that women like to buy gifts for guys that don't start a conversation with "ASL" | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 2/4/2008 10:00:54 PM | There are times when I talk way too much. My nickname when I was a kid was 'Chatty Kathy' after the doll: you pull a string on her back and sooner or later she'll be saying the same things over and over again.
But believe it or not, and despite all the written evidence to the contrary in my forum posting history, I can shut up too. One of the reasons why my personal relationships suffer from an outpouring of verbal diarrhea, is because people genuinely talk to me about their problems and I genuinely listen. I also remember what's been said and I like to be there for people.
The vast majority of jobs I've held in my life involved people, customer service, determining customer need etc. So it wasn't surprising that I'd come home feeling a little bit of resentment as to "what about me?" Sometimes in my friendships, I'll give more than I take. And sometimes, we change places and I'll take more than I give. It's those reciprocal relationships that make me consider someone to be a good friend. | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 2/4/2008 10:16:36 PM |
Does anyone really know how to talk anymore?
No! Or know how to write! I've communicated with a dozen or more women on this site. For the most part their email responses are short and don't reveal anything about them. Telephone results are the same: little is learned.
I met with three woman from POF. Like you, I am interested in a wide variety of subjects and can easily keep a conversation going, provided there is one. The three women I met from this site were just interested in romance. Maybe it's the age group I appeal to: 50-65. Whatever it is, I agree with you:
Conversation is a lost art form | |
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| Conversation is a lost art form
Posted: 2/5/2008 7:47:50 AM | | I went out on a POF date the other night - and we had GREAT conversation - mainly because I believe neither one of us was intent on pressuring each other into telling about ourselves on any levels other than movies we like and just day to day activities or general observations about our surroundings, because I firmly believe pretension is just a rediculous way to start any kind of relationship. In the end, after some drinks, a wonderful dinner and the unexpected but definitely delightful kiss goodnight, I went home satisfied and confident that I'll see him again for another wonderful evening. I think what happens online is we converse too much between each other and then there's nothing to say once we meet. I'm itching for Date Number Two! I just can't wait to find out more about him, and who knows, we may find out that we're not perfect for one another, but at least we have the option of becoming great friends, and it wasn't time wasted! | |
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