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 Author Thread: Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 151
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History
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/26/2007 12:47:56 PM

hank:msg172:The Op’s post is simple enough to understand. Why is it so hard to stay on topic and stay away from insulting an entire nation (U.S. and Iran)?

Hi Hank. maybe you should bring that up with the OP since it was her ludicrous comment in message 8 that really got this whole thread rolling when she decided to hijack her own thread


OP:msg9:Due to the obvious hatred for America that those in power at Columbia have, should we be watching for the grand opening of the Columbia-Iran Campus? I doubt it. They'll just bash this country by supporting crap like this from the safety of their campus right here in the good old U-S of A.


You know hank, folks like you and K-lo and a few others make it hard for me to bring it all to the table with some of the things I'd really like to say.

But the bottom line is a couple of things. Most of us that aren't as subject to the filtering of the news are trying to get a message thru to folks that all is not what it seems with a very very corrupt government. But because of the fact that 60% of Americans get their news thru the 6 o'clock news channels, and then augmented by what 4 women might chat about on the View' a lot of the citizens formulate their own conclusions and then come on here and say stupid things like this guy said this and this guy said that, when this guy didn't say anything of the sort.

They are truly being misled, and my attitude toward Americans has gone right thru the floor in the nine months I've been participating in the forums. It's crazy listening to some of the brainwashed stuff that folks come on here and blurt out without any thinking.

So we not only have to make a case to unveil the dishonesty in your government and military industrial complex, but we also have to back that up. Now are you suggesting that you'd rather see a thread where all the mental midgets just come on here and rant against iran. Regardless of the fact that most of their mindless opinions are premiseless.

You guys were led down the garden path into a war due to cooked Intel and lies. The public bought in because that's all they knew. These forums have proven this fact over and over again. How can any percentage of Americans support this admin? If it helps just a few or a handful of Americans to want to make changes now, then by god it's been worth it.

But now it's happenning all over again with this administration. What's really particularly frustrating is when I hear folks saying things like: "Oh we can't leave now. Those folks need us. How will they ever trust us again. We're trying to give them our way of democracy...yadda yadda yadda..""

i'll give twenty to one odds on a good old yankee buck that if the American citzenry rose up and wilfully and lawfully arrested Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, there would be an immediate ceasefire in the Middle east and everyone but israel would be happy.

Come on. Nobody's trying to give anyone democracy here. You've been pounding on these poor **stards for going on 6 years with absolutely no end in sight. There's been no diplomacy at all to speak of. Your president refuses to back down and it's going to wind up in nuclear holocaust. You need to remove these two from office.

The military is attempting to get a premanent base built to use as a springboard into the Middle East fray. The first priority was to get the oil pumping again. Well guess what. The oil profits have gone thru the roof since '03. The profits have increased fourfold. Tell me something? Did the American people see any of this profit? No. Your debt has skyrocketted whiile your gas prices have as well. Your government no longer gives two sh1ts about it's people. It's a profit oriented complex designed to feed only a few. What the US is doing here really is their own version of the holocaust. Go invade all the little countries that have oil and cloak it something the folks back hiome can buy into...

When nation's individuals do things like this it affects and reflects on it's citizens. TYo research and see what the rest of the world sees really makes me wonder about this 29%. How can there be any percent that support this regime unless they're in on the take as well.

I really do wish you's well down there. I have made some friends on here that I chat with behind the scenes quite regularly and they know my position. I'm scared to death for you folks down there. It's nothing personal when I come on here and try to exercise my own shock treatment and try to jolt some of these folks out of their mindless comas. It's sick and it's sad to watch and read day after day.

It's really a shame that this has reached the point it has in world affairs, but it is just uncanny as to how in the world there is still 29% of your population supporting this regime that's taken you to war throughout it's entire regime. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that you don't get an election next year.

You know America was built on the backs of the American worker thru business. if you have a CEO that's been caught lying to the shareholders three times now on very important matters, you would remove that CEO forthwith. There's something very definitely wrong with this picture down there where no Americans are standing up to this regime. Either they aren't getting the whole picture which I personally can't believe entirely, or the control is in so deep that even if someone wanted to impeach these two clowns, they'd never stand a chance.

These guys honestly hank make Watergate look like preschool.

Anyway, i do wish the Yanks well. But not in war. We are in World War 3 right now. Just nobody's called it that. if you'd rather have nice dainty threads where all the Americans line up and bash this iranian punk, or the University for allowing this guy to speak that's fine. But for me I thought it was novel. If the kids there wanted to rip him so be it. But for folks to come on here and voice opinions that are clearly clearly wrong; sorry hank old boy, it's not happenning here.

Maybe the American Tv is controlled that way, but not this forum, and you're open minded enough to understand freedom of speech which was one of your underlying fundamentals of what used to be great about Americans and America and her patriotic people.

Blind patriotism is what has been taken advantage of by this administration. And it spills out into this forums day after day. Unfortunately, a lot of us are not subject to this controlled media blitz and we will counter back and point out some of the flaws, of which there are many, to the pro pro 'America is great' syndrome. America is not great. It hasn't been great for going on 30 years now. You folks have real issues that need tending to, education, crime, obesity, medicating mind altering prescription drugs and health care are just a few of them. Why spend 50 times more on military defence than on education? We see the results on these forums every day from a lack of adequate spending on edumacation. because your government hasn't got the guts to force Americans to start changing their ways. They haven't got the guts to stand up and say the gravy train does not last forever. because they are making way too much money contracting out war.

You see hank in the end we're all going to be out of oil. All your governments doing by fabricating these illegal wars is buying the Americans a few more years of oil. You'll run out just like the rest of us. But while we're all taking steps around the world to reduce oil consumption, America's demand grows in spite of no real manufacturing base anymore.

After oil, the next wars will be over drinking water because you're almost out of that as well. You can't keep going to the well for oil and water and not expect eventually for some folks to start pushing back and people politely or impolitely saying f.ukk you., you folks have been pigs long enough.

Peace hank. Come on up here and we'll buy you a few beers and sit around the campfire arguing about it. Beautiful time of year now where you can smell the leaves on the ground.
All the best.

"""...Now they're planning the Crime of the Century...
...Who are these men of lust greed and glory?
...Rip off their masks and let's see..."""
~Supertramp~ Crime of the Century- early 70's - (just after Watergate)
 Internetdatingpariah

Joined: 10/17/2004
Msg: 152
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/26/2007 12:57:48 PM
Sly,

I tend to agree with you in theory. And yes, we were fed a bill of goods on Iraq. And NO, I did not vote for george last time or the time before. Nor did I vote for george sr.
I just hate being lumped into a GWB supporter. My whole area being mostly democrats. I haven't voted republican since Reagan. Don't lump me in with k-lo either.
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 153
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History
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/26/2007 1:06:22 PM
No probs hank. I could do worse than be lumped in with K-lo. It was just a point that there are a handful of folks on here that are open minded enough to listen to all sides of the story, and maybe even learn a thing or two, and that provides hope that somehow this horrible mess can be cleaned up and rectified. But it's a challenge to unscramble scrambled eggs.
Drastic times call for drastic measures.
Have a good one.
 gizmosellschickens

Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 154
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History
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/26/2007 1:22:57 PM
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hes sick man, and Bush does has his flaws, and Iran leaders days are numbered unless the regime gives up nuc juice. Speaking at Columbia making the joke no homosexual in Iran is sick joke because the regime kills all gays in Iran. People should not defend Iran because the people in Iran do not have the right to speak out against the goverment. Iran will corperate once Isreal bombs out a few nuclear facilites, or Iran really pushes it regime change in Iran. Iran leader is like Hilter full of hatered for anything and anyone, and using abusing the word imperialism when in fact they pratice it by sending thugs all over the middle east to attack Isreal, and innocent Iraqi civiallians, and American soliders.
 Sactowndude

Joined: 5/13/2005
Msg: 155
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/26/2007 3:23:18 PM
wonder if anyone has any statistics regarding "current event" threads that get hijacked and turn into anti-American rants and "You Americans are all alike...freakin war mongering, and ignorant" threads? This was a thread about The President of Columbia University inviting the President of Iran to speak. It is NOT a referendum on GWB or anything else. It is NOT about Iran. The Op’s post is simple enough to understand. Why is it so hard to stay on topic and stay away from insulting an entire nation (U.S. and Iran)?


Very true Hank,I wish we can discuss current events without the trolls causing trouble.
I also wish that certain posts were not deleted,just because you don't agree with a certain opinion doesn't mean the opinion is invalid.
Now back to the topic.....
 Internetdatingpariah

Joined: 10/17/2004
Msg: 156
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/26/2007 3:27:24 PM
Sly,
True enough and I'm hoping lots of the dyed in the wool republicans will change their tune next election. Even my wife, a staunch republican (for some reason) thinks gwb is an idiot and has led us down an awful path.

Now, I'm not a huge fan of the prez. of Iran either, but I think if you invite someone to talk you at least need to be polite. I don't care who it is. If the prez. of Columbia University was not bright enough to see that the invite might affect contributions then he has no right being president of a university. He showed a lack of class cowtowing to contributors. It would have been better if he just canceled the invite I suppose. I mean what did he think was going to be said anyway? They're all blowhards anyway. I'm guessing even Harper says what his party wants to hear. Of course that's a guess on my part.

Anyway...I think the university prez should have asked direct, difficult questions, but instead he came off more like a jerk. Purely my opinion of course.

Hmmmm...just reread my post. I write "anyway" too often.
 Sactowndude

Joined: 5/13/2005
Msg: 157
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/26/2007 3:28:08 PM
i'll give twenty to one odds on a good old yankee buck that if the American citzenry rose up and wilfully and lawfully arrested Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, there would be an immediate ceasefire in the Middle east and everyone but israel would be happy.



Yeah if we got rid of the current US administration and removed our troops the middle east would be a peaceful paradise.
Thanks for the laugh sly,can I have some of whatever you are smoking?
The Sunnis and Shiites have been killing each other for 1400 years,long before there was an Israel or USA.
I'm not a big supporter of GWB and he will be gone in 15 months but Cinton was in office for 8 years and he didn't do anything to ease the tension between the US and Iran,if anybody thinks a Democrat will change things in the middle east you are living in a dreamworld.
If other countries would stand up to tyrants the US wouldn't have to butt it's nose into other countries business.
 Internetdatingpariah

Joined: 10/17/2004
Msg: 158
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/26/2007 3:33:18 PM
Dude,

Agreed. Even if we COULD arrest them, I'm afraid as long as there is an Israel, there will not be peace in the middle east. At least not soon, but who knows. Maybe one day???
Eh...gwb will be out soon enough and hopefully we can get back on track. Pull the troops out. Nice!!!
 gentalltheway

Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 159
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History
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/26/2007 4:31:07 PM

I think the university prez should have asked direct, difficult questions, but instead he came off more like a jerk. Purely my opinion of course.

It is shared by many.


gwb will be out soon enough and hopefully we can get back on track


As far as I am concerned, it's far to long before Bush is out. He has more than enough time to plan another war. Iran is his next target. The Iranian President knows it as well hence the need to show up at the Security Councils to hopefully open the eyes of blinded or bought out countries. It's also why he had to accept a debate at the university so he can show that he is not the aggressor and he was only looking for peace.
 gentalltheway

Joined: 9/9/2006
Msg: 160
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History
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/26/2007 4:38:13 PM

If other countries would stand up to tyrants the US wouldn't have to butt it's nose into other countries business.


Are you talking about the same vile, sadistic tyrannical dictators that have/had the support and financed by the US government?
 Master_Bates

Joined: 2/10/2005
Msg: 161
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/26/2007 11:14:22 PM
wow, where do I begin. All this anti American hatred makes my blood boil and no one else seems to be standing up for all of us.

As you mention I do find it very interesting with the age of countries around the world and culture and history (of which the US is mostly devoid due to age and attitudes towards lifestyle, or has imported and claimed to be of it's own) that they seem themselves fit to tell most of the world what to do and judge others

This from someone who lives in Vancouver B.C.? I grew up near Port Townsend, Washington- how is it that just 50 miles away you guys are SO much more civilized than us barbaric Big Mac eating Americans? Gimme a break, British Columbia essentially has the same culture as Washington/Oregon. So is British Columbia devoid of culture then too?

The president of Columbia university was covering his beehind, he did what he did out of his own self interest without taking into consideration the international backlash. Unfortunately putting self interest ahead of everything else, even if it is destructive to our national interests, does seem to be a pervasive problem with our politicians and other elites these days. Besides, Draculanijihad did a really good job of making an a** of himself in the speech, he didn't need the president of Columbia University to do it for him.


I'd agree with that. One thing Americans tend to forget quite often is that theirs is not the only culture on this earth.

I reject the notion of cultural relativism, but this is not the place for a deep philosophical debate and proof.


To be honest, they really have little culture when compared to nations that have been on earth for 5, 6, and 7000 years.

We are transplants to the new world, but our present culture(whether you are genetically related to that culture or not, I am not) can be traced back through Middle Ages Europe, Roman Empire, Greeks, Minoans and even as far back as the Egyptians. The culture that was Persia was destroyed by the Islamic invasion, which is no older than 7th century Arabia.


Their own culture seems to be one where 3/5's of the country is basically illiterate, 2/3rds of all adults are obese and divorced.

do you have statistics to back this up? ***edited to refrain from well deserved personal counter attack**


They live on Big macs, Whoppers, fries, cola's and hi-octane for thier SUV's.

I had a McDonald's breakfast once last summer, and it has been well over a year since my last Bigmac. I drive a Ford Ranger, and I hate cola or any other kind of soda pop(I do sometimes drink root beer, I know euros hate that stuff hehe)


And theyir manufacturing base left the building years back. So they must all be pretty much living on credit...aka...borrowed time.

how is Canada doing these days, eh?


Yep. That's quite a culture. We should all be like them.

Ahem, you ARE like "them", you live in Canada.


They own 2% of the oils resources and use 25% of the supply. Do the math. Everyone around the world knows what this is all about.


That is probably due in part to the fact that the place where most of that other 23% of the oil comes from the women are not allowed to drive cars. actually that is not funny, that is really quite sad.


So it's the Americans that don't give two sh1ts about international law. Thats how classless and rude this nation is.


at least we didn't point a gun to his head, take him hostage, blindfold him and publicly humiliate him, unlike, ahem, certain other countries have done to diplomatic representatives who were guests in *their* country.


1. Because this guy never believed in the holocaust. Wow, there's one helluva reason for starting another war,
or,
2) It's all about oil.

or maybe, perhaps, it is about nuclear weapons. Even if Iran never uses the nukes themselves, this will lead to run away nuclear proliferation in the Middle East. That would be bad...very bad. You see, once Iran has nukes, Saudi Arabia will get nukes, Turkey will get nukes, and Egypt will get nukes as well. This dramatically increases the likelihood of a nuke getting into the hands of a radical Islamist group that will eventually use it on a western city. I somehow think you would not care too much if a US city gets nuked, since you are obviously so blinded by your hatred of Americans, but I do, because I live here. By extension you should too, because it will not only effect the USA but the entire Western World whether you like it or not.


I'll tell you, this country, the USA, will be good fodder for the history books when it looks at how immoralistic it's own society was before their eventual collapse.


Immoralistic? and the culture in Iran is not because it is just "different"? You either buy the notion of cultural relativism or you don't, please make up your mind. Anyway, if the United States collapses there probably be won't be any history books, at least not for several hundred years. You will be living in a mud hut and bowing to Mecca 5 times a day. At least if you are rich and own enough goats you will be able to have as many wives as you want. Perhaps that is why you seem to think the Middle Eastern culture is so much better?


Anyways, it's time for the class to learn your new subject: Burma. I'm sure everyone will be resident experts by the end of the day on Burma now that Bush has told the UN how horrified "all" Americans are at the human rights violations in Burma. Now not only would I bet, that 90% of Americans never ever even heard of Burma before, but they also likely couldn't find it on a map. Yet, lo and behold, what's the big newsmaker today on all the websites? Yep. Burma.

I was not that impressed with the human rights record of Burma even back in 1991 when I considered visiting the place. Why is it that a western tourist cannot cross the border from either Thailand or India at the time of my visit to that part of the world? Why did I need to obtain special permission and an expensive permit if I wanted to visit the place?(as was the case in 1991, I doubt it has changed much) It cannot possibly be because they have something to hide, like human rights violations, now would it? Of course not. Oh, and Burma is a southeast Asian nation that is sometimes called Myanmar depending on the political situation, situated between Thailand, China, and India, and on the map it looks sorta like Thailand's doppleganger.

-an igonarant, stupid American
 Jemue

Joined: 1/26/2005
Msg: 162
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/27/2007 1:44:59 AM

how is Canada doing these days, eh?


Really well
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 163
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History
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/27/2007 3:10:04 AM

...no one else seems to be standing up for all of us.

That is what concerns me the most as well marco. It's not hatred marco. You may want to go back and reread some posts, People like hank get the point, but you indirectly got the main point being that no one in America seems to want to stand up and find out some truths about this present administrative regime and the direction they're taking the nation. I'm the least of your worries.

And no, I'm not into democrats more than republicans. i don't see a helluva lot of a difference between the two to be quite honest with you. Except maybe the democrats come across as being kind of wimpy. But then again, I don't see a helluva lot of differences between the Conservatives or the Liberals up here. Your politcians are much like ours in being nothing more than a bunch of dishonest empty suits. I doubt very much that democrats would do much better at fixing some of the present challenges.

The only I guy I see worth his salt in any political arena, be it yours, ours, internationally or otherwise, is this guy they call Ron Paul. The last half decent politician I ever saw was Trudeau here in the late 60's. Before him would probably be JFK, but i was quite young at the time, but remember my mum crying about him being shot. I never saw her cry about anything else all the time I've known her come to think of it.


do you have statistics to back this up?

Yep. The obesity rates have been brought up in the dating section of the forums many many times and usually by people that just want to point out their disgust with 'fat' people. Hopefully we're not going to go anywhere near that topic with this info. Some of the posters are very well versed on the obesity subject., so I'll only include a little bit of data for that. I'm tired of reading obesity threads, but here's a bit of data nonetheless. So let's try to stay more with the focus on the topic of education since it's more in theme with the OP which has to do with a University, a place of learning and exchanging ideas and ideals, inviting a foreign diplomat to speak.
-----------------------


American obesity rates lead the world with 64% of adults being overweight and almost a quarter being obese

Obesity Statistics-U.S. Obesity Trends
http://naaso.org/statistics/obesity_trends.asp
---------------------------


Thursday, October 19, 2006
Obesity Epidemic: US Temporal Trends

Although well known to most obesity researchers and epidemiologists, the public generally is not aware of the full magnitude of the obesity epidemic. Below is a classic report by the CDC of the emergence of the obesity epidemic in the United States from the early 1985 to 2004.

It is also worth noting that the data presented in these maps rely on self-reported weight and height from the BRFSS. Because people tend to underreport their weight and overreport their height in telephone surveys, these figures are underestimates of the obesity prevalence in the US*. When measured height and weight data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey are used, the prevalence of obesity in U.S. adults is about one-third greater than the prevalence reported in these surveys.

http://www.epidemiologic.org/2006/10/obesity-epidemic-us-temporal-trends.html

-----------------------

National Medical Spending Attributable To Overweight And Obesity: How Much, And Who’s Paying?

Further evidence that overweight and obesity are contributing to the nation’s health care bill at a growing rate.



More than half of Americans are either overweight or obese. Moreover, the prevalence of overweight and obesity has increased by 12 percent and 70 percent, respectively, over the past decade.

This trend is alarming, given the association between obesity and many chronic diseases, including type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, several types of cancer (endometrial, postmenopausal breast, kidney, and colon), musculoskeletal disorders, sleep apnea, and gallbladder disease

...an accounting of the lifetime net costs (costs minus benefits) of overweight and obesity imposed on government is likely to show that these costs are much larger than the lifetime costs imposed by smokers.

...The NHIS relies on self-reported height and weight, and overweight and obese people tend to underreport their weight.20 As a result, overweight and obesity prevalence and corresponding expenditures may be underreported.

Unless programs aimed at reducing the rise in obesity rates are successfully implemented, overweight- and obesity-attributable spending will continue to increase and government will continue to finance a sizable portion of the total. Moreover, given that such spending now rivals spending attributable to smoking, it may be increasingly difficult to justify the disparity between the many interventions that have been implemented to reduce smoking rates and the paucity of interventions aimed at reducing obesity rates.

Funding and support for this study were provided by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.w3.219v1/DC1
---------------------

Obesity Still a Major Problem

Obesity and overweight are a result of an imbalance between food consumed and physical activity. National data have shown an increase in the calorie consumption of adults and no change in physical activity patterns. But obesity is a complex issue related to lifestyle, environment, and genes. Many underlying factors have been linked to the increase in obesity, such as increasing portion sizes; eating out more often; increased consumption of sugar-sweetened drinks; increasing television, computer, electronic gaming time; changing labor markets; and fear of crime, which prevents outdoor exercise. Obese adults are at increased risk of type II diabetes, hypertension, stroke, certain cancers, and other conditions. Overweight adolescents often become obese adults.

In 2003-04, 17.1% of children and adolescents 2-19 years of age (over 12 and a half million) were overweight, and 32.2% of adults (over 66 million) were obese. Almost 5% of adults were extremely obese

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/06facts/obesity03_04.htm
----------------------

The prevalence of overweight and obesity in the United States makes obesity a leading public health problem. The United States has the highest rates of obesity in the developed world. From 1980 to 2002, obesity has doubled in adults and overweight prevalence has tripled in children and adolescents

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity
more references and cites are available there if you wish to peruse the subject further
-----------------------------------
----------------------------------

To establish an actual divorce rate requires tracking and analyzing significant samples of actual marriages through decades, which is not an easy task. Recent US scholarship based on such longterm tracking, reported for example in the New York Times on April 19, 2005...the percentage of all marriages that eventually end in divorce peaked in the United States at about 41% around 1980, and has been slowly declining ever since, standing by 2002 at around 31%. Some have attributed this decline to the popularity of co-habitation without marriage.

...States in the US handle billions of dollars in alimony and child support arrangements, which commonly result from divorces. (According to a 2003 US census report], 43.7% of custodial mothers and 56.2% of custodial fathers, are divorced or separated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce

See what happens when you question things marco. You get answers. And we find that the original numbers on divorce were overstated. Reminds me a bit of some overstatements regarding weapons of mass destruction. See what can happen when closer investigation is undertaken. The truth can be uncovered. And someone once said, the truth will set you free. Good work. Now, unfortunately we have to address the fact that nearly 60% of all Americans get their news from 53 minutes on TV per day on average.

-------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Literacy in Everyday Life: Results from the 2003 National Assessment of Adult Literacy
Summary
This chapter examined how the literacy levels for the total adult population of the United States, as well as for adults from different demographic groups, changed between 1992 and 2003, and also how literacy levels varied among different demographic groups in 2003.
Total Population

There were no statistically significant changes in the average prose and document literacy of the adult population of the United States between 1992 and 2003.

----------------

Number of Adults in Each Prose Literacy Level
Prose Literacy

Below Basic-30 million-14%:
no more than the most simple and concrete literacy skills
Basic:63 million-29%
can perform simple and everyday literacy activities
Intermediate:95 million-44%
can perform moderately challenging literacy activities
Proficient: 28 million-13%
can perform complex and challenging literacy activities

http://nces.ed.gov/NAAL/kf_demographics.asp

-------------------------------------------

adults with Below Basic or Basic health literacy were less likely than adults with higher health literacy to get information about health issues from written sources (newspapers, magazines, books, brochures, or the Internet) and more likely than adults with higher health literacy to get a lot of information about health issues from radio and television.


http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/webcasts/NAALhealth/webcast0829.html
-------------------------------
In the International Adult Literacy Survey (IALS) assessment, 1994-98:

The average composite literacy score of native-born adults in the U.S. was 284 (Level 3); the U.S. ranked 10th out of 17 high-income countries;
The average composite literacy score of foreign-born adults in the U.S. was 210 (Level 1); the U.S. ranked 16th out of 17 countries.
(Sum, 2002, p21, Table 12)

-------------------------------------

In the International Adult Literacy Survey (IALS) assessment, 1994-98:

The mean prose literacy scores of U.S. adults with primary or no education, ranked 14th out of 18 high-income countries;
The mean prose literacy scores of U.S. adults with some high school, but no diploma or GED, ranked 19th out of 19 high-income countries;
The mean prose literacy scores of U.S. adults with a high school diploma or GED (but no college), ranked 18th (tie) out of 19 countries;
The mean prose literacy scores of U.S. adults with 1-3 years of college, ranked 15th out of 19 countries;


http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/facts/facts_overview.html
----------------------------------

United States

There are various definitions of literacy. Governments may label individuals who can read a couple of thousand simple words they learned by sight in the first four grades in school as literate. But the most comprehensive study of U.S. adult literacy ever commissioned by the U.S. government proves that such adults are functionally illiterate--they cannot read well enough to hold a good job. Several studies have shown that millions of Americans never read another book after leaving school.


A five-year, $14 million study of U.S. adult literacy involving lengthy interviews of U.S. adults, the most comprehensive study of literacy ever commissioned by the U.S. government, was released in September 1993 revealing the shocking details.

It involved lengthy interviews of over 26,700 adults statistically balanced for age, gender, ethnicity, education level, and location (urban, suburban, or rural) in twelve states across the U.S. and was designed to represent the U.S. population as a whole.

This study showed the percentages of U.S. adults who worked full-time, part-time, were unemployed, or who had given up looking for a job and were no longer in the work force, and it showed the average hourly wages for those who were employed.


These data were grouped by literacy level--how well the interviewees responded to material written in English--and indicated that 40 to 44 million of the 191 million U.S. adults (21 to 23 percent of them) in the least literate group earned a yearly average of $2105 and about 50 million adults (25 to 28 percent of them) in the next-least literate of the five literacy groups earned a yearly average of $5225 at a time when the U.S. Census Bureau considered the poverty level threshold for an individual to be $7363 per year.

The report of a follow-up study by the same group of researchers using a smaller database (19,714 interviewees) was released in 2006 that showed no statistically significant improvement in U.S. adult literacy.


These studies prove that a minimum of 46 and a maximum of 51 percent of U.S. adults read so poorly that they earn significantly below the threshold poverty level for an individual. The only reason we do not see that number of families in poverty is that most low-income families have more than one employed adult and almost all low-income families receive financial assistance from the government, family, friends, or charitable organizations.



Many U.S. citizens believe that the U.S. literacy rate is much higher than these reports would indicate.

The World Fact Book prepared by the CIA claims that the U.S. literacy rate is 99 percent, but defines literacy as being able to read and write when a person is 15 years old or older. A person who can only read a few hundred--or even a couple of thousand--simple words learned in the first four grades in school, is only marginally literate.

Jonathan Kozol, in his book Illiterate America, states that there may not be any intentional deception, but explains that the census bureau reported literacy rates of 99 percent based on personal interviews of a relatively small portion of the population and on written responses to census bureau mailings.


If the interviewees or written responders had completed fifth grade they were considered literate.

In the 1970 census, for example, five percent had less than a fifth grade education. The census bureau considered eighty percent of those with less than a fifth grade education as being literate and reported a 99 percent literacy rate. In the 1980 and 1990 censuses, most of the census bureau calculations of literacy were based upon grade completion. They used written questionnaires and a small number of home visits and telephone interviews. If a respondent stated that they had completed less than five grades, they were asked if they could read and write, and their unsubstantiated answer was recorded as a fact. Kozol explains that this method of determining literacy is quite certain to underestimate illiteracy for the following reasons:

Illiterates would not respond to written forms and their family members--also likely to be illiterate--would not either.

Illiterates are less likely to have telephones than the general public, because of unemployment or low paying jobs.

Illiterates may distrust anyone knocking on their door or calling on the telephone and seeking information because they are often hounded by bill collectors, salesmen, and others because of their financial condition and because they may have been cheated as a result of their illiteracy. Therefore they cannot be expected to give accurate answers to questions asked by census bureau workers they do not know, especially if the answers are embarrassing.

Grade level completion does not equal grade level competence.

Those who have no permanent home address, no telephone, no post office box, and no regular job--a condition shared by more than six million adults, most of whom are illiterate--cannot be found by the census bureau in time to be included in the count.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy

---------------------------------------

Grading the Public
What Americans Know: 1989-2007

Released: April 15, 2007
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=319
--------------------------------

Internet News Audience Highly Critical of News Organizations
Views of Press Values and Performance: 1985-2007

Released: August 9, 2007

Summary of Findings

The American public continues to fault news organizations for a number of perceived failures, with solid majorities criticizing them for political bias, inaccuracy and failing to acknowledge mistakes. But some of the harshest indictments of the press now come from the growing segment that relies on the internet as its main source for national and international news.


The internet news audience – roughly a quarter of all Americans – tends to be younger and better educated than the public as a whole. People who rely on the internet as their main news source express relatively unfavorable opinions of mainstream news sources and are among the most critical of press performance.

As many as 38% of those who rely mostly on the internet for news say they have an unfavorable opinion of cable news networks such as CNN, Fox News Channel and MSNBC, compared with 25% of the public overall, and just 17% of television news viewers.
Generally, the press receives its most positive ratings for its performance from people who rely on television as their main source of news, with those who rely on newspapers – and especially the internet – expressing more critical opinions.

Dislike of both major cable news networks runs notably high among Americans who count newspapers and the internet as their main sources of national and international news

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=348
-----------------------------

THE DISILLUSIONARIES - 4 PUBLIC AWARENESS QUESTIONS
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WmBgrboeoy8


Mainstream Media is Selling Another War
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hwxzt4iPkNE


Project for Excellence in Journalism
Missing in Action: News Coverage of Private Contract Forces in Iraq
Limited, Intermittent Reporting Leaves a Major Story of the War Largely Uncovered
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/520/missing-in-action-news-coverage-of-private-contract-forces-in-iraq
---------------------------------
----------------------------------

Back On Topic:

Bush is Ignorant and Extremely Dangerous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSZXWDfxNnY

U.S. Allies and Neighbors: Bush is Worlds Most Dangerous Man
A new poll claims UK Canada Mexico, and Israel puts George W Bush at the top of the list of Most dangerous people in the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NLy_y0zYRo&mode=related&search=

Former CIA officer: US to attack Iran within 6 months
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqA2vo-7UG0&mode=related&search=

IRG - Iran can recruit 12 Million fighters in 48 Hours
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaYQqHjnPu0&mode=related&search=

What if America does attack Iran?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLN6OPcL5v0&mode=related&search=
----------------------

The story of Two nations heading toward their ultimate destruction.


"Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defence against a homocidal maniac."
~George Orwell~

 pogue maliopa

Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 164
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 9/27/2007 3:38:03 AM
("They don't fall for our President's propaganda")

Hmm, really.
 AUSTIN.

Joined: 8/10/2006
Msg: 165
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 10/22/2007 11:09:52 PM

That is what concerns me the most as well marco. It's not hatred marco. You may want to go back and reread some posts, People like hank get the point, but you indirectly got the main point being that no one in America seems to want to stand up and find out some truths about this present administrative regime and the direction they're taking the nation. I'm the least of your worries.

And no, I'm not into democrats more than republicans. i don't see a helluva lot of a difference between the two to be quite honest with you. Except maybe the democrats come across as being kind of wimpy. But then again, I don't see a helluva lot of differences between the Conservatives or the Liberals up here. Your politcians are much like ours in being nothing more than a bunch of dishonest empty suits. I doubt very much that democrats would do much better at fixing some of the present challenges.

The only I guy I see worth his salt in any political arena, be it yours, ours, internationally or otherwise, is this guy they call Ron Paul. The last half decent politician I ever saw was Trudeau here in the late 60's. Before him would probably be JFK, but i was quite young at the time, but remember my mum crying about him being shot. I never saw her cry about anything else all the time I've known her come to think of it.



do you have statistics to back this up?

Yep. The obesity rates have been brought up in the dating section of the forums many many times and usually by people that just want to point out their disgust with 'fat' people. Hopefully we're not going to go anywhere near that topic with this info. Some of the posters are very well versed on the obesity subject., so I'll only include a little bit of data for that. I'm tired of reading obesity threads, but here's a bit of data nonetheless. So let's try to stay more with the focus on the topic of education since it's more in theme with the OP which has to do with a University, a place of learning and exchanging ideas and ideals, inviting a foreign diplomat to speak.
-----------------------



American obesity rates lead the world with 64% of adults being overweight and almost a quarter being obese

Obesity Statistics-U.S. Obesity Trends
http://naaso.org/statistics/obesity_trends.asp
---------------------------


Thursday, October 19, 2006
Obesity Epidemic: US Temporal Trends

Although well known to most obesity researchers and epidemiologists, the public generally is not aware of the full magnitude of the obesity epidemic. Below is a classic report by the CDC of the emergence of the obesity epidemic in the United States from the early 1985 to 2004.

It is also worth noting that the data presented in these maps rely on self-reported weight and height from the BRFSS. Because people tend to underreport their weight and overreport their height in telephone surveys, these figures are underestimates of the obesity prevalence in the US*. When measured height and weight data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey are used, the prevalence of obesity in U.S. adults is about one-third greater than the prevalence reported in these surveys.

http://www.epidemiologic.org/2006/10/obesity-epidemic-us-temporal-trends.html

-----------------------

National Medical Spending Attributable To Overweight And Obesity: How Much, And Who’s Paying?

Further evidence that overweight and obesity are contributing to the nation’s health care bill at a growing rate.




More than half of Americans are either overweight or obese. Moreover, the prevalence of overweight and obesity has increased by 12 percent and 70 percent, respectively, over the past decade.

This trend is alarming, given the association between obesity and many chronic diseases, including type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, several types of cancer (endometrial, postmenopausal breast, kidney, and colon), musculoskeletal disorders, sleep apnea, and gallbladder disease

...an accounting of the lifetime net costs (costs minus benefits) of overweight and obesity imposed on government is likely to show that these costs are much larger than the lifetime costs imposed by smokers.

...The NHIS relies on self-reported height and weight, and overweight and obese people tend to underreport their weight.20 As a result, overweight and obesity prevalence and corresponding expenditures may be underreported.

Unless programs aimed at reducing the rise in obesity rates are successfully implemented, overweight- and obesity-attributable spending will continue to increase and government will continue to finance a sizable portion of the total. Moreover, given that such spending now rivals spending attributable to smoking, it may be increasingly difficult to justify the disparity between the many interventions that have been implemented to reduce smoking rates and the paucity of interventions aimed at reducing obesity rates.

Funding and support for this study were provided by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.w3.219v1/DC1
---------------------

Obesity Still a Major Problem

Obesity and overweight are a result of an imbalance between food consumed and physical activity. National data have shown an increase in the calorie consumption of adults and no change in physical activity patterns. But obesity is a complex issue related to lifestyle, environment, and genes. Many underlying factors have been linked to the increase in obesity, such as increasing portion sizes; eating out more often; increased consumption of sugar-sweetened drinks; increasing television, computer, electronic gaming time; changing labor markets; and fear of crime, which prevents outdoor exercise. Obese adults are at increased risk of type II diabetes, hypertension, stroke, certain cancers, and other conditions. Overweight adolescents often become obese adults.

In 2003-04, 17.1% of children and adolescents 2-19 years of age (over 12 and a half million) were overweight, and 32.2% of adults (over 66 million) were obese. Almost 5% of adults were extremely obese

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/06facts/obesity03_04.htm
----------------------


The prevalence of overweight and obesity in the United States makes obesity a leading public health problem. The United States has the highest rates of obesity in the developed world. From 1980 to 2002, obesity has doubled in adults and overweight prevalence has tripled in children and adolescents

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity
more references and cites are available there if you wish to peruse the subject further
-----------------------------------
----------------------------------

To establish an actual divorce rate requires tracking and analyzing significant samples of actual marriages through decades, which is not an easy task. Recent US scholarship based on such longterm tracking, reported for example in the New York Times on April 19, 2005...the percentage of all marriages that eventually end in divorce peaked in the United States at about 41% around 1980, and has been slowly declining ever since, standing by 2002 at around 31%. Some have attributed this decline to the popularity of co-habitation without marriage.

...States in the US handle billions of dollars in alimony and child support arrangements, which commonly result from divorces. (According to a 2003 US census report], 43.7% of custodial mothers and 56.2% of custodial fathers, are divorced or separated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divorce

See what happens when you question things marco. You get answers. And we find that the original numbers on divorce were overstated. Reminds me a bit of some overstatements regarding weapons of mass destruction. See what can happen when closer investigation is undertaken. The truth can be uncovered. And someone once said, the truth will set you free. Good work. Now, unfortunately we have to address the fact that nearly 60% of all Americans get their news from 53 minutes on TV per day on average.

-------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Literacy in Everyday Life: Results from the 2003 National Assessment of Adult Literacy
Summary
This chapter examined how the literacy levels for the total adult population of the United States, as well as for adults from different demographic groups, changed between 1992 and 2003, and also how literacy levels varied among different demographic groups in 2003.
Total Population


There were no statistically significant changes in the average prose and document literacy of the adult population of the United States between 1992 and 2003.

----------------

Number of Adults in Each Prose Literacy Level
Prose Literacy

Below Basic-30 million-14%:
no more than the most simple and concrete literacy skills
Basic:63 million-29%
can perform simple and everyday literacy activities
Intermediate:95 million-44%
can perform moderately challenging literacy activities
Proficient: 28 million-13%
can perform complex and challenging literacy activities

http://nces.ed.gov/NAAL/kf_demographics.asp

-------------------------------------------


adults with Below Basic or Basic health literacy were less likely than adults with higher health literacy to get information about health issues from written sources (newspapers, magazines, books, brochures, or the Internet) and more likely than adults with higher health literacy to get a lot of information about health issues from radio and television.


http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/webcasts/NAALhealth/webcast0829.html
-------------------------------
In the International Adult Literacy Survey (IALS) assessment, 1994-98:

The average composite literacy score of native-born adults in the U.S. was 284 (Level 3); the U.S. ranked 10th out of 17 high-income countries;
The average composite literacy score of foreign-born adults in the U.S. was 210 (Level 1); the U.S. ranked 16th out of 17 countries.
(Sum, 2002, p21, Table 12)

-------------------------------------


In the International Adult Literacy Survey (IALS) assessment, 1994-98:

The mean prose literacy scores of U.S. adults with primary or no education, ranked 14th out of 18 high-income countries;
The mean prose literacy scores of U.S. adults with some high school, but no diploma or GED, ranked 19th out of 19 high-income countries;
The mean prose literacy scores of U.S. adults with a high school diploma or GED (but no college), ranked 18th (tie) out of 19 countries;
The mean prose literacy scores of U.S. adults with 1-3 years of college, ranked 15th out of 19 countries;


http://www.nifl.gov/nifl/facts/facts_overview.html
----------------------------------

United States

There are various definitions of literacy. Governments may label individuals who can read a couple of thousand simple words they learned by sight in the first four grades in school as literate. But the most comprehensive study of U.S. adult literacy ever commissioned by the U.S. government proves that such adults are functionally illiterate--they cannot read well enough to hold a good job. Several studies have shown that millions of Americans never read another book after leaving school.



A five-year, $14 million study of U.S. adult literacy involving lengthy interviews of U.S. adults, the most comprehensive study of literacy ever commissioned by the U.S. government, was released in September 1993 revealing the shocking details.

It involved lengthy interviews of over 26,700 adults statistically balanced for age, gender, ethnicity, education level, and location (urban, suburban, or rural) in twelve states across the U.S. and was designed to represent the U.S. population as a whole.

This study showed the percentages of U.S. adults who worked full-time, part-time, were unemployed, or who had given up looking for a job and were no longer in the work force, and it showed the average hourly wages for those who were employed.



These data were grouped by literacy level--how well the interviewees responded to material written in English--and indicated that 40 to 44 million of the 191 million U.S. adults (21 to 23 percent of them) in the least literate group earned a yearly average of $2105 and about 50 million adults (25 to 28 percent of them) in the next-least literate of the five literacy groups earned a yearly average of $5225 at a time when the U.S. Census Bureau considered the poverty level threshold for an individual to be $7363 per year.

The report of a follow-up study by the same group of researchers using a smaller database (19,714 interviewees) was released in 2006 that showed no statistically significant improvement in U.S. adult literacy.



These studies prove that a minimum of 46 and a maximum of 51 percent of U.S. adults read so poorly that they earn significantly below the threshold poverty level for an individual. The only reason we do not see that number of families in poverty is that most low-income families have more than one employed adult and almost all low-income families receive financial assistance from the government, family, friends, or charitable organizations.




Many U.S. citizens believe that the U.S. literacy rate is much higher than these reports would indicate.

The World Fact Book prepared by the CIA claims that the U.S. literacy rate is 99 percent, but defines literacy as being able to read and write when a person is 15 years old or older. A person who can only read a few hundred--or even a couple of thousand--simple words learned in the first four grades in school, is only marginally literate.

Jonathan Kozol, in his book Illiterate America, states that there may not be any intentional deception, but explains that the census bureau reported literacy rates of 99 percent based on personal interviews of a relatively small portion of the population and on written responses to census bureau mailings.



If the interviewees or written responders had completed fifth grade they were considered literate.

In the 1970 census, for example, five percent had less than a fifth grade education. The census bureau considered eighty percent of those with less than a fifth grade education as being literate and reported a 99 percent literacy rate. In the 1980 and 1990 censuses, most of the census bureau calculations of literacy were based upon grade completion. They used written questionnaires and a small number of home visits and telephone interviews. If a respondent stated that they had completed less than five grades, they were asked if they could read and write, and their unsubstantiated answer was recorded as a fact. Kozol explains that this method of determining literacy is quite certain to underestimate illiteracy for the following reasons:

Illiterates would not respond to written forms and their family members--also likely to be illiterate--would not either.

Illiterates are less likely to have telephones than the general public, because of unemployment or low paying jobs.

Illiterates may distrust anyone knocking on their door or calling on the telephone and seeking information because they are often hounded by bill collectors, salesmen, and others because of their financial condition and because they may have been cheated as a result of their illiteracy. Therefore they cannot be expected to give accurate answers to questions asked by census bureau workers they do not know, especially if the answers are embarrassing.

Grade level completion does not equal grade level competence.

Those who have no permanent home address, no telephone, no post office box, and no regular job--a condition shared by more than six million adults, most of whom are illiterate--cannot be found by the census bureau in time to be included in the count.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy

---------------------------------------

Grading the Public
What Americans Know: 1989-2007

Released: April 15, 2007
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=319
--------------------------------

Internet News Audience Highly Critical of News Organizations
Views of Press Values and Performance: 1985-2007

Released: August 9, 2007

Summary of Findings

The American public continues to fault news organizations for a number of perceived failures, with solid majorities criticizing them for political bias, inaccuracy and failing to acknowledge mistakes. But some of the harshest indictments of the press now come from the growing segment that relies on the internet as its main source for national and international news.



The internet news audience – roughly a quarter of all Americans – tends to be younger and better educated than the public as a whole. People who rely on the internet as their main news source express relatively unfavorable opinions of mainstream news sources and are among the most critical of press performance.

As many as 38% of those who rely mostly on the internet for news say they have an unfavorable opinion of cable news networks such as CNN, Fox News Channel and MSNBC, compared with 25% of the public overall, and just 17% of television news viewers.
Generally, the press receives its most positive ratings for its performance from people who rely on television as their main source of news, with those who rely on newspapers – and especially the internet – expressing more critical opinions.

Dislike of both major cable news networks runs notably high among Americans who count newspapers and the internet as their main sources of national and international news

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=348
-----------------------------

THE DISILLUSIONARIES - 4 PUBLIC AWARENESS QUESTIONS
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WmBgrboeoy8



Mainstream Media is Selling Another War
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hwxzt4iPkNE


Project for Excellence in Journalism
Missing in Action: News Coverage of Private Contract Forces in Iraq
Limited, Intermittent Reporting Leaves a Major Story of the War Largely Uncovered
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/520/missing-in-action-news-coverage-of-private-contract-forces-in-iraq
---------------------------------
----------------------------------

Back On Topic:

Bush is Ignorant and Extremely Dangerous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSZXWDfxNnY

U.S. Allies and Neighbors: Bush is Worlds Most Dangerous Man
A new poll claims UK Canada Mexico, and Israel puts George W Bush at the top of the list of Most dangerous people in the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NLy_y0zYRo&mode=related&search=

Former CIA officer: US to attack Iran within 6 months
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqA2vo-7UG0&mode=related&search=

IRG - Iran can recruit 12 Million fighters in 48 Hours
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaYQqHjnPu0&mode=related&search=

What if America does attack Iran?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLN6OPcL5v0&mode=related&search=
----------------------

The story of Two nations heading toward their ultimate destruction.



"Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defence against a homocidal maniac."
~George Orwell~


Bravo sly, but don't you know anything of your own?! Once I admired you immensely, but lately I have serious doubts.
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 166
view profile
History
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 10/22/2007 11:37:43 PM
Well thank you kindly austin. That's mighty high praise coming from you knowing where we're both from.
It's good to have doubts, even better sometimes that they're serious doubts. And it's good sometimes to realize we know very little in the overall scheme of things, since really both you and i amount to two little pebbles of sand in the whole cosmos of things probably. All i can leave you with tonite to help with your doubts, is something a friend once pasted into my facebook thingy.

Knowing that we know nothing...the only true knowledge consists in knowing we know nothing and in knowing we know nothing makes us the smartest of them all-Einstein

Hope that helps.
 AUSTIN.

Joined: 8/10/2006
Msg: 167
Iranian President to Speak at Columbia
Posted: 10/23/2007 6:28:01 AM

Well thank you kindly austin. That's mighty high praise coming from you knowing where we're both from.
It's good to have doubts, even better sometimes that they're serious doubts. And it's good sometimes to realize we know very little in the overall scheme of things, since really both you and i amount to two little pebbles of sand in the whole cosmos of things probably. All i can leave you with tonite to help with your doubts, is something a friend once pasted into my facebook thingy.

Knowing that we know nothing...the only true knowledge consists in knowing we know nothing and in knowing we know nothing makes us the smartest of them all-Einstein

Hope that helps.


Sly, it certainly does. Many would see your tactics as the blind leading the blind. When I need a laugh my friend, I come here and read 'some' of your posts.
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