| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 10/20/2007 3:12:59 PM | Rape, isn't a act of sex, it's a act of control. They just happen to be using sex as the tool.
If I say no, if someone else says NO or STOP. Thats it, end of discussion it stops. If its me saying no and the guy doesn't stop, he's probably going to need re-constructive surgery.
And no it doesn't matter what type of relationship it is. Stopping or responding to NO is a sign of respect. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 10/20/2007 3:28:02 PM | This myth really can't be propagated further. Rape is an act of control on the raped person (that unfortunately the body sometimes automatically responds too, making it more horrid). The rapist does not see it that way and is not motivated that way, the myth comes from a theory that has subsequently been proven baseless. Unfortunately, many psychological theories gain popular foothold and are hard to dislodge from public consciousness. Continuing to propagate this myth about rape actually furthers rape because rapists will continue to believe they weren't raping because they were not attempting to control.
All research on rapists shows that they in fact are about sex. Serial and hardened rapists genuinely believe the women like it and genuinely believe it is about sex. Lesser offenders genuinely feel their sexual response is outside their control and that they need to have the sex and take it impulsively. For the rapist it is about sex.
There are some times, and these are rare, when it might not be about sex. Sometimes a man does rape to take control of a woman. But this is far less common than it being about sex. Furthermore, hard core psychopaths who have completely distorted views of reality may do so. But they certainly don't have a homogenous motivation of control. There are those trying to get back into the womb. Those trying to fulfill an Elektra complex. There are those who have murder and sex connected... etc. But primarily rape is about sex from the rapists POV.
As an example, given that all paedophiles rape you must argue that they only did it to get control of those little children... Obviously there is something more to it than that.
I do think the idea needs to be encouraged among rape victims, that it wasn't about sex for them and that that matters. There's a certain logic to saying that true virginity can't be taken but must be given. Its certainly important for the person raped to be able to eliminate their feeling of responsibilty for how terrible they feel. Its useful sometimes (often) for the psychology of the patient. But making a global statement that rape isn't about sex is a serious error in terms of understanding what is going on and rehabilitating rapists.
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 10/20/2007 3:44:21 PM | This seems to be a trick question for some reason,if 2 adults agree to have sex,are willing to have sex,in the act of having sex, then I would have to say no it's not rape.
Because neither party should start something they are not willing to finish. This is one of the reasons it is hard to get a rape conviction.my rules of thought are:
Make your intentions very clear before you start.Specailly if you aren't married.
Leading some one to the watering hole and saying sorry you can't have a drink is a crime also.I would have to say stupidity. I also know" NO means NO", so starting something your not going to finish is stupidity,I'm sorry but it is. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 10/20/2007 3:49:19 PM | | If someone is raped regardless of how it's perceived by the rapist. It's still control. They aren't going to stop, they want what they want. Regardless of the victim's wishes. Perhaps I should have expounded on my statement. I choose not to because I didn't want to go into a expos'e of all the idiosyncrasies of rape and the various rapist. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 10/20/2007 5:40:17 PM | | I have worked as a rape/crisis nurse teaching in schools. What we teach is, even if the other person is buck naked, and then they say no, that it can still be considered rape. You have to be very careful these day. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 10/20/2007 6:12:46 PM |
Personally...
Off the top of my head I cannot think of a justifiable reason that in the middle of having sex with my BF, Hubby, or SO, I would feel the need to say NO, completely refused to continue, and cry rape.
I mean, if we finished what we started would it be considered rape?
Rape? Come on? Rape? That’s somewhat harsh…don’t cha think?
ahhhh the sweet voice of reason. Thanks Lyricallady
Ok, for the record no means no....even if in mid act. It's never happened to me but if it did I would be done for good with her unless it were a medical emergency or something.
In the eyes of the law it's rape. In the big picture it's beyond stupid and pretty damn rude to boot. Anyone who would go back after something like that is even stupider | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/2/2007 9:03:21 AM | For those of you who think it is permissable to rape your husband or wife, and that their "body" belongs to you...You are too far gone in the hope to ever understand
what marriage and love are all about.
Kimberly | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/2/2007 9:31:31 AM | | Stupidity. Its not rape. You put yourself in that situation, you agreed to have intercourse in the first place. Its rude, and also wrong for the guy to ignor the demands of the woman... but, its not rape. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/2/2007 11:36:45 AM | | Oh that substances thing is total bullshit; I am perfectly capable of making informed decisions when drunk. This law was passed so that people could just blame alcohol and shirk their own responsibility. YOU chose to get drunk, YOU walked up to the guy, YOU asked a MALE if he wanted to have sex, dont go blaming the booze which YOU chose to drink. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/2/2007 11:43:55 AM |
Oh that substances thing is total bullshit; I am perfectly capable of making informed decisions when drunk. This law was passed so that people could just blame alcohol and shirk their own responsibility. YOU chose to get drunk, YOU walked up to the guy, YOU asked a MALE if he wanted to have sex, dont go blaming the booze which YOU chose to drink.
AMEN! I don't excuse anything for drinking, especially cheating. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/2/2007 11:47:00 AM | The best solution?
Let the lady be on top. That way, she's the one in control and if she wants to stop all she's gotta do is jump off of you.
But granted, many of the laws are a convoluted cluster**** of weird little rules.
So, what if a drunk girl tries to get a sober guy, sober guy says no, drunk girl doesn't stop and rides him regardless of his pleas? Does the man still get charged with rape? | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/2/2007 11:55:49 AM | | I think that this would be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. It sounds somewhat similiar to a situation where 2 people have sex and the woman regrets it the next day and accuses the man of rape. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/2/2007 11:57:27 AM | | Exactly, Brock. The law was passed because these idiots convinced the court that alcohol is this magical mind control substance that turns good girls into sluts, so that girls who regret what they did could use alcohol as an excuse and make the man look like a villain. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/19/2007 8:16:12 AM | I agree with don'tmakecookies .... "making a global statement that rape isn't about sex is a serious error in terms of understanding what is going on ...."
I've never gotten why some people insist rape is mostly about control and not sex. Most rapes end after the man 'shoots his load' - that in itself kinda explains it.
As for the man not accepting "no" once fully engaged in (mutual) intercourse ... I'd dare say it is fully about sex and satisfaction at that moment - not about his desire to "control" her. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/22/2007 8:09:53 AM | stormee-dee
[As for the man not accepting "no" once fully engaged in (mutual) intercourse ... I'd dare say it is fully about sex and satisfaction at that moment - not about his desire to "control" her. ]
Once they have mutually engaged organs, can be difficult to want to pull out til after climax, sounds like you understand that. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/22/2007 8:33:22 AM | | If anyone stays stop and the other person doesn't stop then it's rape. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/22/2007 8:37:15 AM | Actually the roles CANT be reversed
If a woman is shagging a bloke and he says stop and she doesnt thats actually not illegal at all and the man would be the laughing stock if he tried to prosecute her
If however the genders are reversed then the woman says stop its rape
Infact if you want to see JUST how silly the rape law is, all she has to do is THINK stop, she doesnt have to say anything, she doesnt even have to try and stop him or resist the continuation of the intercourse at all and legally in the UK that is STILL rape if he makes just one more thrust after she "thinks" or says that she doesnt want it to cotninue EVEN if she has on countless occassions previously said "no" when she hasnt wanted him to stop (check the updates in rape legislation since 2002 if you dont believe that btw lol)
My personal view however differs from that, if the woman doesnt make it clear she DOES actually want the festivities to cease then she should either grow up or stop having sex and the continuation bloody well serves her right for being a pathetic idiot IMO
If she does however make it perfectly clear she wants to stop, then I dont think I am overly comfortable with it being called rape per se, but it does become wrong and the man OR WOMAN should be equally liable for prosecution for not respecting the change of mind the other person has had
Infact, if they carried on seeing that person afterwards they ought to be committed too I reckon for dating such a numpty in the first place | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/22/2007 8:41:31 AM | And jeez, not the old "rape is the act of control" fembot nonsense still
Thats like saying burglary is the act of controlling someones possessions, or that mugging is the act of controlling someones financesits not
Its the act of someone having what you want that they arent willing to just "give" to you freely so you take it
Sex itself is "about control", if you removed all sex acts that didnt have some aspect of either physical or mental control or domination you'd pretty much be left with nothing more than shaking hands
So claiming rape is ONLY about control is like saying that because all cars have exhaust pipes on them that all car crashes are about exhaust pipes
Its ludictous and quite dangerous feminist driven oversimplification of a VERY complex topic | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/22/2007 11:09:51 AM |
All research on rapists shows that they in fact are about sex. Serial and hardened rapists genuinely believe the women like it and genuinely believe it is about sex. ....For the rapist it is about sex.
...Sometimes a man does rape to take control of a woman. But this is far less common than it being about sex....
So claiming rape is ONLY about control is like saying that because all cars have exhaust pipes on them that all car crashes are about exhaust pipes
I'd be curious to learn about your sources, dontmakecookies... I actually read a lot on this topic, and most of the research that I have read (some of it cited at the end) suggest that majority of rape cases are agressive acts of violence and have little to do with sexual desire. Note that I say majority, not all cases and not all types... Different types of rape include but are not limited to: date rape, gang rape, marital rape, prison rape, acquaintance rape, and wartime rape. Although we usually think of rape as male-female type, there are numerous instances of male-male rapes as well as female-male rapes (the later are under-researched and believed to be even more under-reported than other types of rape)
War rapes clearly speak against the sexual desire explanations. Motivation here is a desire to humiliate the enemy, most of the time it is a message that men of one group pass to the men of the other group ("you are lesser men, for failing to protect your women") using the women's bodies. The sheer number of women being raped in some of the modern conflicts is scary enough... they ranged from very young females to ones well into their 80s, most of the cases involved group rapes (so, in addition to power, dominance, also peer pressure for example).
Here is a bit of stats on war rapes:
As many as 80,000 women were raped by the Japanese soldiers during the six weeks of the Nanking Massacre. 200, 000 Comfort women were forced into prostitution in Japanese military brothels during World War II. Red Army soldiers raped at least 2,000,000 German women and girls. An estimated 200,000 women were raped during the Bangladesh Liberation War by the Pakistani army and at least 20,000 Bosnian Muslim women were raped by Serb forces during the Bosnian War. - In the case of Bosnian War rape was used as a weapon of ethnic cleansing, many women were raped untill impregnated and then let go... For many that meant being shunned by their own families and communities (for bringing shame on them, excellent movie about a child born as a result of war rape - Grbavica)
And, here is some info on your regular, everyday rape...
Every two and a half minutes, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted.
One in six American women are victims of sexual assault, and one in 33 men.
In 2004-2005, there were an average annual 200,780victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault.
About 44% of rape victims are under age 18, and 80% are under age 30.
A little bit about the rapists:
Approximately 73% of rape victims know their assailant, according to the 2005 National Crime Victimization Survey.
Approximately 38% of victims are raped by a friend or acquaintance;
26% of victims by a stranger;
28% of victims by an intimate;
7% of victims by another relative;
in 2% of cases the relationship is unknown.
For more info visit the source of this data at: www.rainn.org
To go back to the OP, NO means NO each and every time.
Selected readings :
Brownmiller, Susan: Against Our Will : Men, Women, and Rape, Ballantine Books, 1975.
Cothran, Helen, Sexual Violence: Opposing Viewpoints, Thompson Gale, 2003.
Smith, M. D. (2004). Encyclopedia of Rape. USA: Greenwood Press
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/22/2007 11:15:33 AM | Well, I had a lady that always cried no.. and stop while we were making love. She never called it rape. Then again My hands were tied up and she was on top..... soo!
If we started making out and she said no.... then I would. If the roles were reversed, and she used no or stop... I would stop. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/22/2007 12:14:04 PM | | Solution.................draw up a contract before you start , that way , the lawyers will have something to play with , if the situation arises . However, all passion will probably fly out the window before the guy even gets it up,hence there shouldn't be a problem!!!! | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/22/2007 12:28:15 PM | tough one OP....
I have been raped and it was rape at 14 years old by a 36 year old.... that is rape
two consenting adults saying no mid between is tricky..... if she say's no... then stop... but rape? no .... that is completey different..... she changed her mind... but that is not rape... a man forcing himself on someone who is scared and no way wants sex is rape......  | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/22/2007 12:39:57 PM | ^ if either person says NO and the other ignores that and carries on regardless, it is RAPE. If you change your mind and the other person refuses to acknowledge that, it is rape.
a man forcing himself on someone who is scared and no way wants sex is rape......
Very true, my heart goes out to you regarding this.
two consenting adults saying no mid between is tricky..... if she say's no... then stop... but rape? no .... that is completey different..... she changed her mind... but that is not rape...
Yes it is.
It is a different experience of rape to yours but still rape nevertheless. | |
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| rape or just stupidity?
Posted: 11/22/2007 12:44:01 PM | Redcassandra, to really understand the significance of any studies or statistics you first have to understand the politics, views and aims of the people compiling them as its almost invariably the case that they already know what they are going to "prove" at the outset and will make sure they DO prove it whether or not its actually a reality or not
There is a strong drive to convince people that rape is ONLY about power and control and anyone, no matter how qualified that dissents from that view is openly chastised and have in several cases then had problems attaining funding or publication for and of totally unrelated work which as with some other topics stiffles any other equally and even more highly specialised and educated views on the matter than the politically convenient view
The problem with rape NOT being about power and control is that its inconvenience permeates many levels of society and with it carries an implied view that women should be responsible for their own safety and should be aware of danger and take at least SOME effort to avoid it, which in the current political climate is seen by much of the academic and political scene as being both an abhorrent and a misogynistic view
One of the major bug bears in the theory is that people seeking power and control are actually more likely to direct someone to self mutilate as that is considered a far higher level of power and control to exert over someone
And both humiliation and power/control are natural aspects of many peoples non rape based sex lives too anyway, so it would actually be "odd" rather than a eureka discovery to NOT find any or all of those being part of any sexual act as they are already prevalent and almost unnavoidable in sex to begin with, rather than something ONLY seen in the instance of rape which would have to be the case for the "conclusion" that rape is about power, control and humiliation based on their presence in the act
You might as well claim rape is about ejaculation, vaginas, clothes, hair, teeth, penis' and anything else that is predominantly present when a sex act either consentual or otherwise is taking place, even god forbid, that rape could, just possibly also be about release, frustration, need, fantasy or sex itself
And considering the diversity of the human mind and people in general its a bit odd that pretty much every action a person can do has countless individual reasons, driving forces and motivations which are dispersed in the individuals reasoning to differing levels, EXCEPT for a very tiny group of female orientated things where we are asked to believe that every single instance that has ever occured the world over and throughout time has been for one singular reason irrespective of the person, country of occurence or any other factor
Make that claim about any other topic and most reasoned people would laugh at it infact, yet its pushed as fact on this and a few other topics
Now dont get me wrong, I'm not saying its NEVER about those things, but even when it is its also the case that for those people their normal consenting sex lives will ALSO be about those things too as will the sex lives of countless men and women who ARENT rapists also
Sex is about power, control and often humiliation
Rape involves sex | |
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