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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 4:39:04 PM | | ITS the idea of people telling othewr people how to live and its none of thier dam bussniess | |
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DrDAL
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Joined: 10/1/2007
Msg: 77 | |
| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 4:55:45 PM | Anyone who believes that the issue is even remotely in doubt, has their head up their ass so far, that they cannot see the forest for the trees anyway. No one...and I repeat...no one...coming from an unbiased angle on this, has anything positive to say about the effects of second hand smoke. The real facts...and I do not mean those allegations from funded self serving groups with an axe to grind...but rather from the reputable scientific and medical references...with no commercial interests...are no longer even remotely disputable. To allege something so inane, is to be entirely out of touch with reality. It also totally flies in the face of any common sense at all. Smoke builds up on the inside of smoker's windshields and on steering wheels, as a thick brown layer of gunk, but is harmless to passengers??? What planet are you on anyway? Read this case study, and find the flaw in the reasoning. Oh...I have no doubt you will...but your rights leave off, where my rights begin...especially if I am but a child, and incapable of protecting myself.
"Isn't a smoking and nonsmoking section in a restaurant, kind of like having a peeing and nonpeeing section in a pool?" Think about it.
I grew up with chain smoking parents, who at the time I was growing up, did not know the difference. That truly was aversion therapy, and I know how ill it always made me feel...being forceably exposed to second hand smoke...especially on lengthy trips in the automobile. I read this with great interest, and it jives perfectly with my own observations.
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A Colorado city ban on smoking at workplaces and in public buildings may have sparked a steep decline in heart attacks, researchers reported on Monday.
In the 18 months after a no-smoking ordinance took effect in Pueblo in 2003, hospital admissions for heart attacks for city residents dropped 27 percent, according to the study led by Dr. Carl Bartecchi, a clinical professor of medicine at the University of Colorado School of Medicine in Denver.
"Heart attack hospitalizations did not change significantly for residents of surrounding Pueblo County or in the comparison city of Colorado Springs, neither of which have non-smoking ordinances," said the American Heart Association, which published the study in its journal Circulation.
The association said this was further evidence of the damage wrought by secondhand smoke.
"The decline in the number of heart attack hospitalizations within the first year and a half after the non-smoking ban that was observed in this study is most likely due to a decrease in the effect of secondhand smoke as a triggering factor for heart attacks," it said.
It said the researchers had taken into account other variables such as air pollution and community-wide changes in preventive care and concluded that they did not have an impact on their findings.
The American Heart Association estimates that more than 35,000 nonsmokers die each year in the United States from coronary heart disease because they inhale secondhand smoke.
Working-class Pueblo has a higher percentage of smokers -- 22.6 percent -- than the statewide average of 18.6 percent.
"Adopting a non-smoking ordinance has the potential to rapidly improve the cardiovascular health of a community," Bartecchi said in a statement.
Pueblo forbids smoking in indoor workplaces and all public buildings, including restaurants, bars and recreational facilities such as bowling alleys.
"You can save lives with drugs and expensive, sophisticated devices, but this single community action led to 108 fewer heart attacks in an 18-month period," Bartecchi said.
"Each hospital admission for a heart attack costs an average of $20,000 here in Pueblo," he said. "So in addition to saving lives, non-smoking ordinances also save a lot of money."
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It is not what you wish to hear, and therefore, you will find it to be all wrong, but it is indeed quite factual, and not at all an isolated independent piece of medical research. It has glaringly become the majority medical opinion. Somehow I would readily believe such well respected research publications as the New England journal of medicine...the Lancet...the National Institute of Health...ad infinitum...long before I would accept the smoker's advocate sources. What is said, also carries the requisite logic, and is not a stupid irrational or emotional response, to a very glaringly obvious situation. | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 6:07:53 PM | | I hate those selfish parents that can think only of themselves and not their own childs health. I think it is a fantastic law!! | |
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DrDAL
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Joined: 10/1/2007
Msg: 79 | |
| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 7:35:28 PM | H--m-m-m-m....
Maybe the law is needed, because childish adults cannot see past their own needs, and are unable to sublimate their obsessions, even for the good of their own children. Basically...they just don't care...as long as they can feed the compulsion for that cigarette...when they want...and where ever they want.
What you are basically tell everyone, is "Go to hell...my rights outweigh your's!"...but that is not the case...and certainly is no adult way to approach things...especially with defenseless young children...who definitely also have rights...rights equal to your own...and who so obviously need protection...protection from you!
Get a clue! | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 7:53:29 PM | hmmm...this is one odd topic. I do know in some custody cases, the fact of one being a smokers home has been used against them in court.
Soon going to be outlawed to smoke in your own home...some buildings now advertise apartments for rent in "No Smoking" buildings.
I figure, what you do in your home or car is your choice, not to be left up to "Big Brother". | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 8:25:34 PM | | The issue I have a problem with here really isn't about smoking (or not) nor is it about the thought process involved with the parents and their choices, it is about the government, in my opinion, over stepping their boundaries. Where will the line be drawn? Next on the plate could very well and very easily be to outlaw smoking in your own home much the same as in your own car. The same justifications for this law can apply just as easily for your house. Will the government stop there? Will they find something else to make illegal next? Do not compare marijuana and tobacco usage, as one is legal to purchase and possess and the other is not. Your vehicle (in most states) is considered an extension of your home, and the laws that apply in your home regarding your safety and unwanted 'visitors' is the same. This can, and most likely will, change how all of that is seen in the eyes of the courts. I see this law as a violation of the sanctity of my home, my residence, and my freedoms as an American. | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 8:30:40 PM | Ahhh,
come on now.
It's really not about smoking or not smoking.
It goes further/deeper than that.
It's about the government, state, local and federal,
controlling every aspect of our lives.
Say burning the American flag.
It's not right, makes me sick, and would like to string up idiots who do it
BUT
it's their right to do it if they choose too.
I would not want another law mandating/outlawing the burning of the American flag because it's a tiny piece of our freedoms.......chipping away.
Every new law is another bite out of the already dwindling freedoms we have.
So it starts with the no smoking in cars with minor on board.
Got a tootsie in, then no smoking with more than one person in the vehicle.
Another tootsie in....
OK, no smoking in your vehicle after you leave your drive-way.
Now the law makes have made it to your drive-way...what better way to enter your house.
More and more laws.
Control.
I hear people say, the government should do something about that.
They are usually the same folks who live off the government.
So how about a law preventing people who live in low-rent subsidised housing and get food stamps, welfare....
no smoking for those persons.
Not allowed to purchase cigarettes or booze.
No new cars.
And no cable TV..
if ya can afford all those then get off the rolls and provide for yourself.
Well how cruel and inhumane......
you got it, dictating to someone about their personal habits and behaviors.
Maybe in pueblo......the people who would of had the heart attacks left the area.
There's many government offices there or there used to be,
maybe those people got transferred or were downsized.
Maybe they went some where else and had a heart attack.
Maybe they died of other causes..car accidents.
OK, no cars.
Gees, that's like running through a briar patch and trying to identify the
ones that stuck you.
That's one state that I can do without, lived there, loved the prairie dogs.
Colorado has laws about when you can burn/use your own fireplace.
They already control your fireplace in your home.
California, Paradise to be specific, if you want to burn limbs and leaves in your yard, there are only two times per year they'll let you do it.
And you have to pay out the nose for the privilege to burn.
If you want to rilled about children and the abuses they suffer,
then get rilled at the number of children who go hungry every night.
Get rilled at their crack head mama's who used before they were born.
Get rilled over alcoholic mama's laying passed out drunk, pregnant and her other
children running amok all over the neighborhood.
Get rilled over the number of children who need a home and have no one to love them.
Why has no one mentioned that there are no seat belts on school buses?
That's child abuse..actually neglect.
There's more ways to be pro-active than simply yelling for another law to be heaped on us.
Or say, "I think it's like a good law since there's like so many stupid parents, like we have to look after their children".
How righteous to sit with nose in the air, say a sentence so politically correct and order another choka moka latti.
More and more this is looking like a solient (sic) green remake.
Unless there's a law I'm not aware of, or that's been passed since I came on here,
I'm on my way to the jacuzzi.
ceeceekitty
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 8:38:01 PM | 
Good Lord, I think my retinas are bleeding.
And nothing left for the imagination. 
ceeceekitty | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 8:42:50 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^
<div class="quote">[/Something I've noticed about smokers which I haven't with other addicts is the zeal with which they defend and justify their addiction related behavior. It appears that literally NOTHING is more sacred to them than getting that cig (not their families, their health, their appearance, the list goes on and on).]
See what I'm saying, I rest my case.
ATTACK PEOPLE IF YOU WANT. YOU'RE STILL SICKENING YOUR KIDS. | |
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DrDAL
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Joined: 10/1/2007
Msg: 86 | |
| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 8:50:17 PM | OK...then let me see...does that mean we cannot ever pass any laws that would possibly conflict with a person's rights? By that standard, why protect kids from child porn and unwanted sexual advances from adults? Are we not being big brother to involve ourselves with another's chosen perversion? Who cares about the kid's rights...what about the pedophile's rights?
I'm sorry, but does this not smack of the same logic you are using, to protect the supposed rights of the smoker...to allow them to damage the health of their children...because it violates their rights? They are obviously too self centered, and too arrogant, to do so themselves...so is there no need for regulation?
I'm sorry...but your rights...and your freedoms...leave off...exactly where another person's begin. You no more get to shoot a gun in the middle of new york city, than you get the right to smoke in a limited environment with a child present...though both impinge on your individual rights. In both cases, it is an obvious matter of safety. The personal freedoms argument, is invalid for any such situations...and it always has been. It is not up to the individual to unilaterally decide such things. | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 8:59:50 PM | Hummmmmm,
I've noticed some copy and paste.
Also noticed usually the ones screaming about more laws and protecting people, short people aka children, and people needing protection from themselves..........
are usually liberals.
Pablum and puke is at times mentioned before the word liberal.
Don't worry I'm sure it will just turn out to be some sort of right-wing conspiracy.
As far as resting ones case, that's generally what seems to happen.......
people tend to rest on their cases.
ceeceekitty
Not many smokers in these 4 pages, ever once said they'd smoke in their car with their children, if they wanted too.
It seems some are just ired over people who smoke.............. | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 9:25:46 PM |
because it violates their rights? Then WHY didn't they make it illegal to smoke in your house? Why is it still legal to even buy cigarettes? If this law is about children's health, the government has done what it usually does, enact a half assed law half way.
it is an obvious matter of safety. If it such an obvious matter of safety, why wasn't it passed to include your home? Why is tobacco still legal? While we are at it, cell phone usage while driving is obviously unsafe, outlaw cell phones (or at least enforce existing laws concerning them). Oh... coal burning electric plants are unsafe (toxic emissions), CO2 emissions from vehicles, make cars illegal.. or at least putting gas in them. The 'obviously unsafe' argument can be applied to a great many things but it isn't. Why? Do all school buses have seat belts? In most states you have to wear one in a moving vehicle, yet where are they in school buses?
Odds are, the majority of those posting that are in favor of this law don't smoke, and the ones opposed don't. Great, yet another way to divide humanity. | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 9:27:48 PM | ^^^^^^ rurouni_song
<div class="quote"> I've always wanted to be one of those couples you see sitting on a bench at an advanced age - still holding hands, and still in love.
Don't forget to add your oxygen tank to the picture, and maybe you had better bring your "puffer" along too just in case you can't make it back up the beach.  | |
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DrDAL
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Joined: 10/1/2007
Msg: 91 | |
| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 10:09:50 PM | | Sorry Gal...quite conservative actually...just not stupid. No one would ever cclass me as a liberal. I also do not wear labels at all well...for every rule...there is an exception...I tend to be that exception. | |
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DrDAL
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Joined: 10/1/2007
Msg: 92 | |
| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 10:27:20 PM | You bring up a very good point...a couple actually. Why is tobacco still legal? Why do you read a list of ingredients as long as your arm on breakfast cereal...or a can of pop...but they have to list absolutely no ingredients in any tobacco products...Chew or smoke?
Seat belts on school buses should be mandatory...it is very stupid not to do so...so why don't we?
Emissions are another problem altogether. Where are the strictest laws...why in california of course. What effect has it had? Virtually none...at least not anymore. Why? Because we are getting a ateady flow of heavy pollution now from China, via the prevailing trade winds. Emissions are a world wide problem...whether we wish to admit it or not. China has come a long way very fast, but is very much a cesspool of pollution because of haphazard industrialization...developement at any cost. It is time we do our part also. We have not traditionally done remotely enough, and global warming is a definite reality, whether we choose to see it or not.
Whether you wish to see it or not also, the handwriting is on the wall for any form of tobacco usage. The costs are too high, and the returns way too low, for it to continue being subsidized by the government. Availability is going to see a significant decrease, and public smoking is all but dead now. With time...it is going to be gone from the scene. That is entirely inevitable. | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/14/2007 10:39:33 PM | | The law doesn't prevent you from smoking when your kids are not in the vehicle. As for laws telling you how to live... isn't that what all laws are? At least this isn't a law that prevents an activity that has no victim. | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/15/2007 12:21:08 AM | Yeah, makes sense to me that they want to take away my personal freedoms.... but the big business steel company down the road and the refineries down the other road can put out more toxins in an hour than I will in 10 lifetimes. The majority of you nonsmokers are totally missing the point. We have much bigger issues with the safety and health of our children than people smoking in their cars. Many of those issues have been brought up in this thread and for those of you that brought them to the table thank you...you give me hope. The main reasons these issues dont get dealt with is because they are not in the interest of big money. My heartfelt hope is that the rest of you can someday look past the nose on your face to see that the dangers our children face are so much bigger than someone smoking in a car with them. If we could all just look towards the world a few generations from now, conversations like these wouldn't occur.
peace, love , light and unity | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/15/2007 12:43:41 AM | Um...no. YOU miss the point.
1) you have your freedoms. You just don't have the right to impose them on anyone else, especially if they can't prevent it.
2)your children's freedoms are being protected, since apparently far too many "adults" are too selfish to do so themselves.
3)all other issues are red herrings and have nothing to do with solving THIS issue. They can be resolved or ignored regardless of this issue, and are thus simply distractions from those who simply have no valid case to state.
look past the nose on your face to see that the dangers our children face are so much bigger than someone smoking in a car with them.
Don't jail pedophiles. A terrorist with a nuclear bomb is a bigger threat. Same argument. How big IS your nose? | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/15/2007 1:04:54 AM | | You want to protect the chilederen from people smoking in thier cars will the best way is dont let childeren in a car they walk like the old days. You are after the smokeres and what about the person on drugs sure its not many but they kill allso, next is drunk drivers and the worst of them all is people that use phones while driving now you say they are not that bad bs people using phones dont have thier undiveded attention on what they are doing and its worst when they are dialing out. I have see people on phones all over the road and speed up and more than often they slow down as thier attention is talking with the person on the phone. People compline about to much gov intervention will here is a nother case, befor long you will have to get thier permission to wipe your but. | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/15/2007 1:18:08 AM |
It appears that literally NOTHING is more sacred to them than getting that cig (not their families, their health, their appearance, the list goes on and on).
Bravo.....great job of lumping all smokers together. I am a smoker and I take great offence at that statement! I NEVER smoke around my kids! EVER! Even after 4 1/2 years in Alaska....yes, even when the temps plunged to -40 degrees, I NEVER once smoked around my kids. Never have and never will. I am also thrilled that almost all public places have gone smoke free. I will not go anywhere that allows indoor smoking if the kids are with me.
Now, for everyone ready to defend their right to smoke around their kids, are you brain dead? Even if they could prove there is no harm to your kid (which they can't because there is), what makes you feel you have the right to make them go to school and suffer the embarrassment of smelling like a nasty ash tray?
I can remember as a child, begging for the window to be rolled down as I coughed and my eyes burned and I watched my asthmatic brother choking, turning funny shades of blue, and sucking on his inhailer hoping to get a little air in his lungs. Thankfully, this was not often. My dad was an outdoor smoker, mom didn't smoke, we had a baby sitter who did. I still remember how sick I felt when we rode with her.
It is a sad world when it takes a law to make people treat their children right. It is even more sad when, faced with evidence and just basic knowledge of how nasty it is, some people will still rabidly defend their right to torture their children with it! If you are too pathetic to take your smoking away from your kids do them a favor and don't breed to begin with. | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/15/2007 1:55:12 AM | Don't take it personal ASF. I grew up in a smoking household. I had a ton of allergies, though not asthma. I agree with most of what you say.
But I think you inadvertently joined the quoted posters camp. For some people it is an addiction, just like crack or meth or any other addictive drug. ( I know because my mother was one of those. The only reason she quit was I quit buying them for her and she had to walk down to the corner market to buy them -- which becomes difficult once you hit your seventies.) These people can't just stop. And as you probably know from your own experience in other areas, castigating them only turns them angry and rebellious.
I think some posters in this thread need to have their venom drained before it comes back at them. (Karma anyone?) | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/15/2007 3:34:55 AM |
You want to protect the chilederen from people smoking in thier cars will the best way is dont let childeren in a car they walk like the old days.
You honestly think the best way to protect children from being in smoking cars is to ban children of smokers from being in the vehicle with their parents?
Because you know, if your parents don't smoke, you hardly have to worry.
But then again your solution I think is a great example of how many smokers would sacrifice anybody elses freedom in order to smoke. | |
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| No smoking in car with minors
Posted: 10/15/2007 3:58:14 AM |
But I think you inadvertently joined the quoted posters camp. For some people it is an addiction, just like crack or meth or any other addictive drug. ( I know because my mother was one of those. The only reason she quit was I quit buying them for her and she had to walk down to the corner market to buy them -- which becomes difficult once you hit your seventies.) These people can't just stop. And as you probably know from your own experience in other areas, castigating them only turns them angry and rebellious.
No........that is so NOT the point! Alright, many smokers can't quit. Truthfully, I CAN'T, at least not right now. Yes, re-read my other post, I am a smoker (about a half a pack a day, actually). This is NOT about someone's right to smoke. This is about denying someone the right to trap their children in a small space and force them to also breathe the smoke. While I do not feel I can quit right now, I could never harm my children by forcing them to breathe my smoke right along with me. Anyone who does is selfish, irresponsibile, uncaring, and needs some sense knocked into them. PERIOD Walk your lazy ass outside, pull the car over and get out....it is a simple process. | |
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