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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/15/2007 6:33:06 PM |
Just post a link to support your claim. I don't need the usual deluge of static that believers throw out. Just post a link that proves "science is working to define psychic ability". Thanks.
Most of these journals are not available to the general public, but can be downloaded if you are a student or professor. Again, I've posted the links and can send them to you individually, if it's absolutely, necessary. Most scientific journals get angry due to copy write laws. I have posted who wrote them and where they are at.
Tell us what a "ganzfeld generator" is, and how it and a tone generator induces these theta states.
You seem to be a fan of wiki's, so why not do the name search? But here is the technical background from http://skepdic.com/ganzfeld.html
In a nutshell, its a bright flashy light, that puts the Ss into an altered mental state. Along with the tone generator. This produces a theta tone, a 4hz tone, which according to other researchers helps achieve the altered state faster. While some experimenters don't use the tone generators, the CIA has used them in the past with a ~10-20% increase in accuracy. - Joseph Monteagle.
That's nice, but you claimed that these guys win $700.00, well over the $599.00:
there are 2 drawings: 12:27 p.m. and 10:12 p.m / Pick 3 offers a 50-cent play, twelve drawings a week (six Day and six Night drawings) and a top prize of $500 in exact order (on a $1 play.) $500 (on a $1 play.)
LINK: http://www.txlottery.org/export/sites/default/Games/Pick_3/How_to_Play_Pick_3.html
Additionally, you can win in denominations of: $250, $500, $80, $160, $40, $80, etc etc. See website for their rules on how to win the odd amounts. I was informed the group plays twice a day if needed. And wins $700, for all i know they play $250 x 3 version. This is kind of pointless to hen-pick this premise of exact dollar amount.
So which lotto commission? Actually, YOU'RE the one claiming these guys win $700,00 cheques whenever they need it, YOU bring the evidence for this claim. I will not do your work for you.
please pay attention to what i said. They walk away with CASH, not a check, CASH. Green pieces of paper with little pictures of presidents on it, not checks. Well, sometimes money orders depending on the store's policy.
TEXAS LOTTO COMMISSION, not Alaska, not California, but Texas...hence TXlottery.org. Again, a simple verification of my facts, you would have discovered this. If you ask for links, please follow up and look at them rather then re-ask the obvious.
You know, you are the lazy one. Above we have what amounts to a general outline of what PEAR wants to do. This amounts to NOTHING. All you do is throw out this blurb, and then expect me to go digging for the specifics? Forget it.
Furthermore, parapsychology is, AT BEST, considered a fringe science, if that:
from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapsychology
You wanted links that the universities preform parapsychology research, i give them to you. you didn't ask about current research, just if legit universities are doing this. I proved they are doing research in parapsychology.
To equate parapsychology to an actual science is like sitting in a urine-filled latrine and trying to pass it off as a jacuzzi. Parapsychologists are "working on it", not scientists.
Scientists have been studying it for decades, besides your analogy is nothing but a figurative and faulty at best. It can be applied to the study of computer AI research, physics, etc. Scientists are by your definition "working on it" does that mean it's not "real science"?
Please dispense with the insults, I'm sure even you would not want to see a flame war erupt.
Is this yet another case of here is a link, find the part that supports my claim?
That link has absolutely NOTHING to do with remote viewing experiments by ANYBODY. It only says that it has these reports, that's it, nice try though. Your credibility is now in the minus numbers.
Again, this link supports the premise that the CIA does, in the past use remote viewing. Currently, information about their CURRENT remote viewing projects are considered classified. In this Newsweek article they talk of a 60% success rate of the declassified data, and in a 2001 Newsweek article "in from the cold". says the same thing.
Vistica, Gregory. "Psychics and Spooks, How spoon-benders fought the cold war," Newsweek, Dec. 11, 1995, p. 50.
BTW, Blaise McPyrrho , are you a skeptic, refuse to believe, or willing to keep an open mind. if you absolutely refuse to believe and have already made up your mind, then no matter what i say is pointless, but if you are willing to keep an open mind and stop hen-picking everything, ill be willing to continue with you... | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/15/2007 7:23:23 PM | Ravenstar:
I don't care about the studies...and I can ALWAYS find a parking spot! Me too :)
Have you ever had a psychic experience? Yes.
Do you think we all have it or not? Yes.... I believe that we all have psychic abilities.... IMO all it takes is an openness to the idea and some practice... intuition can be developed and honed...
How much of our brain is not used?
Some people go to psychics for predictions on their love lives, what do you think of that? Why would I make a judgment regarding the questions someone else wants answers to..? Sometimes it is career sometimes it is love or health or whatever a person considers important at the time... no judgment from me..
Are you aware that the police use psychics on a regular basis but do not advertise it? Yes, I had heard that, but that is really all I know on the matter...
My kids tell all of their friends that I am "weird" because I say things ahead of time that have shown later to be true... and people tell me that they cannot lie to me because they say it feels like I can see right into them.... even the parts they don't want to show...
I have been told a few times that I am clairvoyant/psychic... a label that I do not apply to myself... but even if it DID fit I would NOT consider myself special for it... as I said, I believe any one of us can develop a stronger "sixth sense" if you will..... | |
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mak68
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Joined: 10/9/2007
Msg: 28 | |
| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/15/2007 8:38:13 PM |
Just post a link to support your claim. I don't need the usual deluge of static that believers throw out. Just post a link that proves "science is working to define psychic ability". Thanks. Most of these journals are not available to the general public, but can be downloaded if you are a student or professor.
So you are using references that we cannot get at. Wonderful. When you make a claim, SHOW evidence that supports the claim, not sources that are not be had.
Tell us what a "ganzfeld generator" is, and how it and a tone generator induces these theta states.
You seem to be a fan of wiki's, so why not do the name search?
I did, came up with nothing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=ganzfeld+generator&go=Go
In a nutshell, its a bright flashy light, that puts the Ss into an altered mental state. Along with the tone generator. This produces a theta tone, a 4hz tone, which according to other researchers helps achieve the altered state faster. While some experimenters don't use the tone generators, the CIA has used them in the past with a ~10-20% increase in accuracy. - Joseph Monteagle.
this tells me nothing on how it can produce clairvoyance or a remote viewing experience.
there are 2 drawings: 12:27 p.m. and 10:12 p.m / Pick 3 offers a 50-cent play, twelve drawings a week (six Day and six Night drawings) and a top prize of $500 in exact order (on a $1 play.) $500 (on a $1 play.)
LINK: http://www.txlottery.org/export/sites/default/Games/Pick_3/How_to_Play_Pick_3.html
Additionally, you can win in denominations of: $250, $500, $80, $160, $40, $80, etc etc. See website for their rules on how to win the odd amounts. I was informed the group plays twice a day if needed. And wins $700, for all i know they play $250 x 3 version. This is kind of pointless to hen-pick this premise of exact dollar amount.
That is not what you said, you specifically stated they "picked up cheques" for $700.00, they either did or didn't. This "henpecking" as you call it, is extremely important, especially in scientific experimentation, and when determining if a claim is false or not. If you start changing what was said or done, credibility vanishes. Clarity and accuracy is paramount, you have not shown either, your story keeps changing.
You wanted links that the universities preform parapsychology research, i give them to you. you didn't ask about current research, just if legit universities are doing this. I proved they are doing research in parapsychology.
No. You provided a link to what basically is a blurb, or a statement of intention. Is the PEAR group part of the parapsychology department, or a branch from an actual scientific department?
To equate parapsychology to an actual science is like sitting in a urine-filled latrine and trying to pass it off as a jacuzzi. Parapsychologists are "working on it", not scientists. Scientists have been studying it for decades, besides your analogy is nothing but a figurative and faulty at best.
It can be applied to the study of computer AI research, physics, etc.
Parapsychology? I don't believe you, evidence?
Scientists are by your definition "working on it" does that mean it's not "real science"? I haven't seen any evidence that scientists are working on it, I see that parapsychologists are working on it. According to critics, parapsychology experiments are not the same as actual scientific experiments. Seems that faulty methodology in parapsychology experiments can account for anomilies, instead of an actual supernatural exlanation.
Please dispense with the insults, I'm sure even you would not want to see a flame war erupt.
I used the latrine as an analogy comparing parapsychology to actual science, where is the personal insult?
Again, this link supports the premise that the CIA does, in the past use remote viewing.Again, this link supports the premise that the CIA does, in the past use remote viewing. Currently, information about their CURRENT remote viewing projects are considered classified. In this Newsweek article they talk of a 60% success rate of the declassified data, and in a 2001 Newsweek article "in from the cold". says the same thing. Vistica, Gregory. "Psychics and Spooks, How spoon-benders fought the cold war," Newsweek, Dec. 11, 1995, p. 50.
Kitty, you're doing it again. All you are doing is presenting your source, but not evidence, post what these articles have to say, quote them. Ideally, a working link that could also bring us to the articles so we could read them in their entirety would be aces.
are you a skeptic, refuse to believe
I am skeptical, but I only refuse to believe because of the lack of evidence and the possible alternate natural explanations for this type of phen0mena. As I said Kitty, clarity and accuracy are paramount, it lends to credibility.
Using scientific method if you put forth a theory that says we can predetermine through clairvoyance pick 3 numbers, that theory must meet these conditions: testability, verifiability, refutability, falsifiability, and repeatability.
More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory#Assumptions_to_formulate_a_theory
Criterion for scientific status
Karl Popper described the characteristics of a scientific theory as follows:
1. It is easy to obtain confirmations, or verifications, for nearly every theory — if we look for confirmations.
2. Confirmations should count only if they are the result of risky predictions; that is to say, if, unenlightened by the theory in question, we should have expected an event which was incompatible with the theory — an event which would have refuted the theory.
3. Every "good" scientific theory is a prohibition: it forbids certain things to happen. The more a theory forbids, the better it is.
4. A theory which is not refutable by any conceivable event is non-scientific. Irrefutability is not a virtue of a theory (as people often think) but a vice.
5. Every genuine test of a theory is an attempt to falsify it, or to refute it. Testability is falsifiability; but there are degrees of testability: some theories are more testable, more exposed to refutation, than others; they take, as it were, greater risks.
6. Confirming evidence should not count except when it is the result of a genuine test of the theory; and this means that it can be presented as a serious but unsuccessful attempt to falsify the theory. (I now speak in such cases of "corroborating evidence.")
7. Some genuinely testable theories, when found to be false, are still upheld by their admirers — for example by introducing ad hoc some auxiliary assumption, or by reinterpreting the theory ad hoc in such a way that it escapes refutation. Such a procedure is always possible, but it rescues the theory from refutation only at the price of destroying, or at least lowering, its scientific status. (I later describe such a rescuing operation as a "conventionalist twist" or a "conventionalist stratagem").
One can sum up all this by saying that the criterion of the scientific status of a theory is its falsifiability, or refutability, or testability. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/15/2007 9:39:48 PM | once again you rely on wiki's as your sole source of information. Also I am familiar with Karl Popper's theory on science vs. pseudo-science.
Although many of his accounts have been dis proven, his ideas are what brought science into a realm of legitimacy. One of the main flaws with Popper's work is that something that has been proven a thousand times it not considered legit in his eyes. If i were to make a bridge out of matchsticks and spam, according to Popper it would work because it has yet to be dis proven. Additionally, many of his ideas, although lay the foundation, have been discredited over the years. Save his stuff for the philosophy section.
So you are using references that we cannot get at. Wonderful. When you make a claim, SHOW evidence that supports the claim, not sources that are not be had.
Again...simply claiming "oh i can't get to the resources" is not a legitimate excuse. I did offer to send you a copy of the pdf if you would have sent me an e-mail address. I have yet to see it materialize.
I did, came up with nothing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=ganzfeld+generator&go=Go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganzfeld_experiment
Additionally, i posted links from the skeptics dictionary as well. I have stated how it works, please read my previous posts.
this tells me nothing on how it can produce clairvoyance or a remote viewing experience.
you want specifics? I can get into specifics via e-mail and not bore people here about the right angular gyrus or other sections of the brain, other researchers have discovered that the visual motor cortex might be involved. Scientists are working to isolate the exact part of the brain responsible for RVing. It was only recently Swiss scientists discovered the angular gyrus is responsible for OBEs.
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/obe.html - Electrical stimulation of the angular gyrus on the right side of the patient's brain produced unusual sensations. Weak stimulation caused the patient to feel as if she was "sinking into the bed" or "falling from a height." Stronger electrical stimulation caused the patient to have an OBE. Researchers from the University Hospitals of Geneva and Lausanne (Switzerland) have found that OBEs can be produced by direct electrical stimulation of a specific part of the brain. Dr. Olaf Blanke and his colleagues worked with a 43-year-old female patient who suffered from right temporal lobe epilepsy. In order to identify the location where the seizures occurred, the researchers implanted electrodes on the brain under the patient's dura. While the patient was awake, the researchers could pass electrical current through the electrodes to identify the function of the brain area under each electrode.
Parapsychology? I don't believe you, evidence?
Again, you haven't read the what you said earlier. You said pseudo-science is:To equate parapsychology to an actual science is like sitting in a urine-filled latrine and trying to pass it off as a jacuzzi. Parapsychologists are "working on it", not scientists.
I said your analogy is faulty...and using your description, i could apply science where scientists does not fully understand everything as an "urine-filled latrine".
I used the latrine as an analogy comparing parapsychology to actual science, where is the personal insult?
again, this is a faulty figurative analogy.
Clarity and accuracy is paramount, you have not shown either, your story keeps changing.
I did say check, my bad, i should have said cash. but really, is $700 or $750 in cash or check enough to discount the truth of the premises? Honestly, no, but next time i'll make sure i put in a standard deviation of $50 to make you happy.
Kitty, you're doing it again. All you are doing is presenting your source, but not evidence, post what these articles have to say, quote them. Ideally, a working link that could also bring us to the articles so we could read them in their entirety would be aces.
I have the actual hard copy of the article, and provided a copy of my sources, if you want a scanned copy of the article, let me know. The burden of proof is in your court.
Using scientific method if you put forth a theory that says we can predetermine through clairvoyance pick 3 numbers, that theory must meet these conditions: testability, verifiability, refutability, falsifiability, and repeatability.
testability - easily done, journal articles have conducted these experiments out and have had reasonable success.
repeatability - again, this is where the problem lies. Not everyone has this skill. The idea of repeatability is a problem with human type of sciences. I can't test medication for schizophrenic patients on a normal population, thus i must use schizophrenic patients with no medical treatment as my control group. this deductive analogy can be compared to parapsychology. If not everyone has the ability to remote view, who can you use them for repeatability? The population of "true" psychics is rather limited. To pull a random Ss out of the population and teach him to RV is campy at best. Even you can admit that.
Currently there is ongoing research (saw it on History channel) stating that scientists are looking to see if musically inclined children have the RV skill, As of late I have yet to see if this get published or of the null hypothesis is accepted.
No, it's spot on, and most of the scientific community would agree with me, as already shown in my link.
again, the burden of proof is in your court, please back up your statement with fact, not just post a link and expect me to do the digging. show me some facts that scientists have said parapsychology is nothing but a pseudo-science.
Let's stick with 2007 and the 21 st century science experiments okay ?? - Mr H2O
The problem with using CIA material is when they choose to declassify it. So, 21st century CIA material is hard to come by. Additionally, materials, that I have requested from the CIA has the complete RV experiments from 1960 - 1980 (standard deviation of 10 or so years) according to Newsweek articles, they said they the military has obtained a 60% success rate at the height of the experiments. Although, this info is 2nd hand - Newsweek -> CIA declassified docs, it should provide the details of these experiments. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 1:30:36 AM | *giggle*
Man! I bet this thread is getting some attention from lurkers who want the KEY to winning lotto!
As someone said (kitty I think) different people have different paths and a different ethos. As it was also pointed out its a gift and is offered as a gift, and if someone wants to offer a gift in return great...if not....great.
To my knowledge 'wanting is not allowed' ie greed. More than 'enough' is greed. It kinda comes down to that 'faith' thing people talk about - at least for naturals. If you give with the expectation of recieving, then you didnt GIVE did you? You WANTED and that was why you gave. You expected some kind of personal gain.
Think about that in terms of love. We are on a dating site after all. Food for thought?
As for lotto and numbers. ALL the naturals I know are dyslexic! 
It doesnt mean all are, but all I have encoutered ARE! And so if they told you 41, its just as likely to be 14. Or 21 be 12. Or 61 be 19. But anyway, if enough is plenty, why would you want to win lotto?
Any scandinavians in the house? 
As to whoever it was who said fate will intervene if you alter things. This I believe to be true from my observations. And it comes down to the exact same thing. Seek to CONTROL and the liklihood is nature will take over and fight you back, restoring things to how they were. Just takes more time. So....why do it?
cheers | |
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Tasu
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Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 32 | |
| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 3:26:08 AM |
fate will intervene if you alter things
in other words, "fate quietly puts the lead in the boxing glove" (pg wodehouse) | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 5:58:28 AM | Death doesn't wait, no time to dally. If it's time - it's time. Despite all your good intentions or desires for intervention. No reason to keep asking why, it just is what it is.
Some things trump ones "abilities".
Kinda like an absessed tooth or a gangrene limb. Hopes, wishes, prayer and good "thoughts" aren't going to stop the situation. Maybe relieve it for a day; then fate says "times up".
Those who question psychic ability when it is confronted with stronger issues... well, good grief!
And the lottery - again, might as well play bingo. Most people don't have the ability to precognatively know at exactly what moment a series of numbers will appear and where they will appear. Where would one find a control factor?
As with anything else, you must know the constraints in which you attempt to use an ability. Your constraint may be the ability of the receiver to pick up on your nuances.
In lottery you are dealing with a non living creature that has mathematical and time factors. Same as with roulette, which by the way, I happen to do well at - what a hoot! | |
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Tasu
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Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 34 | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 7:31:29 AM | OK, I can't tell a lie, I am really a multi-Millionare. Yes and I went to a psychic. She told me which slot machine to play in Las Vegas, what time and location too. Made me a believer....Believe it or not.
Mrs. Gates
(It really was not just the software...lol) | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 11:01:03 AM | My uncle Bob says his teapot can see into the future. The burden of proof is on everyone else to prove him wrong.
Uncle Bob could get rich by using the teapot if he really wanted to, but his strong moral code has him living in poverty.
Uncle Bob can prove his teapot helps him see into the future, but he doesn't want to bore people on the forums with details. If you meet Bob in person he may confuse you with unnecessarily complex terminology about how his teapot works. Any gaps between truth and reality are bridged with obscure and extraordinary claims about parasychology, quantum mechanics, and the like.
Sometimes the teapot helps uncle Bob see the future or win small lottery prizes. Bob's success rate is about 70% but his failure rate is more like 99% so he doesn't talk much about the failure rate.
The evidence for his teapot is overwhelming. Its found in websites no one can access and (non)scientific journals that nobody subscribes to.
Uncle Bob's teapot is validated by the fact that his friends sometimes use the teapot for guidance. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 11:37:27 AM | I think Uncle Bob nailed it dead on !
http://theatrenemesis.com/sample-scene-bob-the-teapot/ ( evidence he exists )
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 11:56:30 AM |
My uncle Bob says his teapot can see into the future. The burden of proof is on everyone else to prove him wrong.
Uncle Bob could get rich by using the teapot if he really wanted to, but his strong moral code has him living in poverty.
Uncle Bob can prove his teapot helps him see into the future, but he doesn't want to bore people on the forums with details. If you meet Bob in person he may confuse you with unnecessarily complex terminology about how his teapot works. Any gaps between truth and reality are bridged with obscure and extraordinary claims about parasychology, quantum mechanics, and the like.
Sometimes the teapot helps uncle Bob see the future or win small lottery prizes. Bob's success rate is about 70% but his failure rate is more like 99% so he doesn't talk much about the failure rate.
The evidence for his teapot is overwhelming. Its found in websites no one can access and (non)scientific journals that nobody subscribes to.
Uncle Bob's teapot is validated by the fact that his friends sometimes use the teapot for guidanc
cute little analogy, too bad it can't be linked to any of the premises that were made, and thus faulty. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 1:07:09 PM | I don't believe in Psychic Ability.
Total bunk.
I do however believe in the voice of God who knows ALL things.
1. When I was 2 years old and sleeping in my crib, I sat up and yelled "Daddy look out". I laid back down and fell asleep. My mother found out the next morning my father the police office had been in a high speed car chase.
2. About 3 days after the CEO of my facility passed away of natural causes, I was driving down the road and heard the name of a man who used to work here and I hadn't thought of in YEARS. This man, who's name I heard was offered the position as CEO 3 weeks ago.
3. I had a dream where a woman (a co-worker) was telling me about her affair with another coworker. The male co-worker was in my office the next day and he was telling me about the relationship.
Am I Psychic......No, I"m not. But sometimes God will reveal things to me so that I can pray about it.
1. My dad lived
2. The man got the position as CEO
3. The affair ended as quickly as it started (apparently this relationship was not God's BEST for either party). | |
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Tasu
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Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 40 | |
| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 1:22:07 PM | just a wee question:
Bob's success rate is about 70% but his failure rate is more like 99% so he doesn't talk much about the failure rate.
shouldn't the sum of these be 100%? am i missing something? | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 2:12:34 PM | Physic Believer.mmmm
well I have just spent many hours reading this post. and all the blogs.. A true phyic doen'st advertise.
I personally know what my abilities are and what they are not..I don't play where I shouldn't.. I also don't project what I shouldn't.. I don't manipulate anything. in life.
I also think the things we experience are very personal and not for 1.5 million ppl the have a cat fight over.. Everyone will believe what is safe and secure for them.. They will only stretch their mind as far as it is safe to do..
Now with that said..I knew from the time I carried my twins only one of them would I see to adult hood.. I spent that 7 months fretting instead of pouring love into a child that I carried in my womb...I also knew the instant my husband left this earth. That was the connection we had..
Now take this in new direction..When I am out in the woods by myself and suddenly I know I am not alone. I can feel the animal... May take me a while till I can find them visually but I know they are there just quietly watching.
Now what about when you have been somewhere brand new and just know it inside and out.. What and where do you put those energies to ..
Do I believe you can manipulate the Lottery or other such bunk nope. and if you could and did the drastic payment would be way to much extracted from me..
Won't take that chance | |
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mak68
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Joined: 10/9/2007
Msg: 42 | |
| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 7:04:21 PM |
Although many of his accounts have been dis proven, his ideas are what brought science into a realm of legitimacy. One of the main flaws with Popper's work is that something that has been proven a thousand times it not considered legit in his eyes. Very much your flawed understanding of Popper. The above mentioned characteristics of scientific theory are one of THE foundations of science. You should invest in a basic book on science.
Again...simply claiming "oh i can't get to the resources" is not a legitimate excuse. I did offer to send you a copy of the pdf if you would have sent me an e-mail address. I have yet to see it materialize.
Extract the pertinent info and quote it here, and provide the source. Unless of course you were simply spewing out names and resources without knowing how they support your claim.
you want specifics? I can get into specifics via e-mail and not bore people here about the right angular gyrus or other sections of the brain, other researchers have discovered that the visual motor cortex might be involved. Scientists are working to isolate the exact part of the brain responsible for RVing. It was only recently Swiss scientists discovered the angular gyrus is responsible for OBEs.
More claims without support, yet again. Nothing to prove any kind of mechanism that enables clairvoyance or remote viewing. Which scientists are "working to isolate the exact part of the brain responsible for RVing".
Yet just one more unsupported claim in the deluge of static.
Again, you haven't read the what you said earlier. You said pseudo-science is:To equate parapsychology to an actual science is like sitting in a urine-filled latrine and trying to pass it off as a jacuzzi. Parapsychologists are "working on it", not scientists.
Now you are just outright lying, or you have reading comprehension problems, I did NOT describe pseudoscience in those terms, I did not even ATTEMPT to describe what pseudoscience was, pure BS. What I did was compare parapsychology to acrtual science.
msg 23:
To equate parapsychology to an actual science is like sitting in a urine-filled latrine and trying to pass it off as a jacuzzi. Parapsychologists are "working on it", not scientists.
Stop distorting the facts.
again, this is a faulty figurative analogy.
It's spot on, so sorry.
I did say check, my bad, i should have said cash. but really, is $700 or $750 in cash or check enough to discount the truth of the premises? Honestly, no, but next time i'll make sure i put in a standard deviation of $50 to make you happy.
And this is the exact sloppy thinking that you have displayed ad infinitum. If as you originally claimed, that these "psychics" were collecting $700.00 cheques, and the lotto comission notes these winners, then their "hits", can be tracked. NOT only tracked, but by a impartial third party, the lotto people. But of course now, yuor story changes, so now it can't really be looked into. NOW, you are claimiong that these "psychics" pick up cheques here and there for various amounts (note NONE are over the $599.00 line). Whereas in your original claim:
msg 15:
These psychics have quit their jobs and obtain the pick 3 numbers when they need them for cash. Walking away with a free $700 check (for 30 minutes worth of work), My how convenient that their results can't be gauged in any meaningful way, as you have changed the story now.
Kitty, you're doing it again. All you are doing is presenting your source, but not evidence, post what these articles have to say, quote them. Ideally, a working link that could also bring us to the articles so we could read them in their entirety would be aces. I have the actual hard copy of the article, and provided a copy of my sources, if you want a scanned copy of the article, let me know. The burden of proof is in your court.
No no no. YOU make the claim, YOU bring the evidence. Copy down the pertinent evidence, and the source. Just because you can't cut and paste, doesn't mean you can't type.
testability - easily done, journal articles have conducted these experiments out and have had reasonable success.
So it was the "journal articles" that conducted these tests??? Evidence of this? What journal articles, success?? Where?
repeatability - again, this is where the problem lies. Not everyone has this skill. The idea of repeatability is a problem with human type of sciences.....The population of "true" psychics is rather limited.
So use the same "successful psychics" who have supposedly passed experiments. No word on that one though.
again, the burden of proof is in your court, please back up your statement with fact, not just post a link and expect me to do the digging. show me some facts that scientists have said parapsychology is nothing but a pseudo-science.
OK, here are a few:
http://www.uq.edu.au/~pdwgrey/pubs/humeparanorm.html:
The evidence for the paranormal, in short, is as insufficient, inconsistent and inconclusive for us as the evidence for miracles was for Hume. The psychologist David Marks has bluntly summed up the situation as follows:
... after millennia of experience and more than a century of controlled investigation, since the founding in 1882 of the Society of Psychical Research, the paranormal remains as controversial as ever. While credence in extrasensory perception (ESP) and precognition is widespread, parapsychology has failed to produce a single repeatable demonstration. Until any significant discoveries are made, science can justifiably ignore it, but it is important to say why: parascience is a pseudo-scientific system of untestable beliefs steeped in illusion, error and fraud.
Here:
http://laser.fontmonkey.com/foe/index.php?m=01&y=06&d=13&entry=entry060113-181452
Writing about parapsychology [here], Paul Churchland argues that parapsychologists do nothing more than point to anecdotal results that are anomalous for materialism. Since every theory faces some anomalies, this on its own shows nothing. Borrowing material from Feyerabend, Paul says that a genuinely scientific research program requires a theory of its own which can explain the results. He concludes: "Parapsychologists have not provided the raw conceptual materials with which to construct a coherent and well-motivated research program, even if materialism is in fact false. That is why parapsychology remains a pseudoscience."
About Paul Churcland:
http://philosophy.ucsd.edu/faculty/pchurchland/index.php
I am a Professor at UCSD, where I currently hold the Valtz Chair of Philosophy. I am also a member of the Cognitive Science Faculty, the Institute for Neural Computation, and the Science Studies Faculty. My current research interests lie in the philosophy of science, the philosophy of mind, artificial intelligence and cognitive neurobiology, epistemology, and perception.
Not just individuals either, the US National Research Council:
http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/parapsychology.html
The U.S. National Research Council in 1988 concluded a well-funded two-year study by a special committee and published a report, Enhancing Human Performance, which concluded:
The committee finds no scientific justification from research conducted over a period of 130 years, for the existence of parapsychological phenomena. In the committee's view, the best scientific evidence does not justify the conclusion that ESP——that is, gathering information about objects or thoughts without the intervention of known sensory mechanisms——exists. Nor does scientific evidence offer support for the existence of psychokinesis——that is, the influence of thoughts upon objects without the intervention of known physical processes.
Regarding your previous mentiojn of PEAR (Princeton), if you had even done an ounce of actual legwork, you would have found out that the PEAR lab at Princeton has been CLOSED.
http://www.princeton.edu/~paw/archive_new/PAW06-07/04-1108/notebook.html | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 9:34:50 PM | Some people love nostalgia and never let go, despite of advancement in the sciences.
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/07/new-correlation.html
Ignorance is not an excuse.
It is a lack of knowledge; illiteracy; lack of education; state of being uninformed.
http://neuro-kinetik.com/ (scroll down a bit to see it all)
It's like the MYTH psychic love to perpetuate- the "We only use 10% of our brain "
http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts7094342.aspx
LOTS of research shows we use more than 10% of brains in daily tasks.
The rest is not on reserve - it's just not true.
EEG deserves mention as one of the first -- and still very useful -- ways of non-invasively observing human brain activity.
CAT (or CT) scanning is a process that combines many 2-dimensional x-ray images to generate cross-sections or 3-dimensional images of internal organs and body structures (including the brain).
PET scans allow one to observe blood flow or metabolism in any part of the brain.
In an MRI, the subject is placed on a moveable bed that is inserted into a giant circular magnet. MRI can produce very clear and detailed pictures of brain structures.
MEG is a new technology that measures the very faint magnetic fields that emanate from the head as a result of brain activity.
Even during sleep we are using our total brain.
The mind in REM sleep has brain structures that consume
oxygen and glucose at rates equal to or higher than in waking.
Our mind is re-wiring thoughts from the days events and
creating new pathways for our minds ; all while we sleep.
Additional info :
http://www.med.harvard.edu/AANLIB/home.html | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 10:25:58 PM | Psychic Ability: I believe it is in us all. I am a medium and believe me, its there! When you start chatting to someone and suddenly spirit pops in and you have to confirm something to the person that you are speaking to. They either think you are crazey or are speellbound as to how you could know these things.
Spirit came to me at a very early age, in fact I was 4 yrs old and no I didn't have a little friend that I imagined. We had just moved into a new house and for a few weeks everything was fine. Then, this man appeared and he was always accompanied by a sea gull. The man wore a peculiar hat that appeared to have a large brim and a long light brown coat. He only ever appeared in my parents bedroom and on the landing and when, he appeared the bird would fly, suddenly across my head. It terrified me and sends a chill through me to this day.
As, I spiritually developed through the years that followed, I decided via another medium to try and find out what this man wanted with me.....it turned out that he was there for protection. Now as I am older and more aware I realise that spirit had sent him because I would be needed in the future to help others in spiritual need and from that young age they were making me spiritually aware.
Back in April of this year I was down visiting my brother in Bournemouth. He was going to Gran Canaria and I was keeping an eye on the children (all teenagers). I sat in the lounge with 2 of them Ben and Ashleigh. Bens mate had come over for a sitting, suddenly the lights went down to less than candle light. Ben asked why the large rug in the centre of the room was rippling. Suddenly, the room became very cold, we all looked and yes the rug was still rippling .
I asked who was there and immediately a young girl came to me, sobbing uncontrollably, it is still so clear in my mind. I asked what was wrong and immediately became aware of a boy with her he was constantly walking around the 4 corners of the rug looking totally lost. He too was about 18. The girl said that they were involved in an accident which had obviously killed them. She was so dreadfully upset and wanted me to contact her mum because she hadn't been able to say goodbye!
I told her that I would have to question her on certain things, because as you can imagine, you would need proof to be able to speak to someone and our way of confirming things was that she would make the lights go dim for yes and bright for no.
To cut a very long story short it turned out that, the girl and 3 friends were involved in an accident on the Ringwood roundabout, they were all killed instantly. They had not passed to the spirit world but were in "limbo." I asked for more proof and a small clock on the table started ticking like Big Ben. We all listened it was 8.15pm, I asked if this was the time of the accident, she replied yes!
Then the other 2 friends came in and they, like the boy were walking around the rug and seemed to be looking for a door way. I enquired if they knew where they were and she, still sobbing profusely replied no. It was quite obvious to me then, that they needed help. I had never taken anyone over to the spirit world before, so I asked my guides to come in and help me. I asked Ben for his help also and he was rather nervous but agreed to help.
I told the girl to take her friends and look for the very bright light after a few minutes she told me that it wasn't there and the lights became very bright. I carried on persuading her to seek the light. Suddenly, it was amazing, I saw such a bright light and asked if she could see it now.... she replied...Yes! I told her to take her friends and walk towards the light, she would be fine and safe then. She came so near to the light followed by her friends. The other boy and girl went first and then the first two entered the light and the lounge lights went so low. I knew they had found the the light, then suddenly, she turned and waved to me and the tears had stopped. Ben the said "wow I can see a girl waving to me!"
What proof not only for me but for a boy who is not a medium and he was able to see the same as me, exactly the same.
Ben then left the room and the lights were back to normal. A few minutes later, he came running down the stairs with his laptop, calling to me. He had gone into a site newspapers were available for you to browse. There was all the proof we needed. An accident had occured in September, on the Ringwood roundabout killing four young friends instantly! Two boys and two girls. The time of the accident was 8.15 pm!!!!!
This was a true experience for me and absolute confirmation of the power of spirit!
Unfortunately, I have not managed to speak to speak to the girls mother and doubt that I ever will, because you can't just knock a door and tell someone a story like this. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/16/2007 10:34:58 PM | This information is a fact. A friend went to a psychic who gave him information about the stock market. That friend then bet 1m or so $ - puts on options - october 1987.
The stock market plummeted. He made 100m in 2 days. He basically bought the town of D'Hanis Texas.
I went to the same psychic. He told me something about my future; still hope it happens. He told me to stay away from a certain gentleman. That guy later stole my car.
Yes, I have experienced a really great psychic. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/17/2007 12:11:05 AM | I think every one has some psychic ability. Not all people are in tune with it or recognize their own abilities. I think any one who takes money for it or tries to selltheir their ability is a fake.
Have you ever been drivng along at night and gotten a radio station on the dial that has really good music, and you have no idea where the station is coming from? All of a sudden it fades out, and as many times as you try to adjust the dial to get it back and hear more, you can't find it?
That is what psychic ability is like to me. I don't know if humans will ever be able to harness it. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/17/2007 6:50:25 AM | There are many different forms of sensitivity... intuition is one.
I don't care about the studies...and I can ALWAYS find a parking spot! 
LOL this made me grin for sure.
I do beleive in this, I do not think anyone should call a 900 number and spend their money.
I also dream of things which come true, I see things which I feel I should not know.
I agree on the whole love thing Raven, besides when you tell the person, "He is not interrested in you for serrious relations." They call you a liar. "Than a few weeks later they come back and say how they love him and want him back."and youthan have to say the same thing again, "I told you before you slept with him he did not want anything more"...
"So definatly avoid them love questions for sure..."
for those that do not beleive because you have never touched it...
Hm have you ever touched your own Brain? I have not
Many will use, well everyone has a brain, erm than why do they have such trouble with opening their thoughts to the unbeleivable,
have you ever touched love? I have not. Feel it yes
Have you ever touched wind? I have not. Feel it yes.
Yet I know they are there because I feel them.
Who knows what anothers brain can see, until you are in their brain. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/17/2007 12:20:33 PM |
Very much your flawed understanding of Popper. The above mentioned characteristics of scientific theory are one of THE foundations of science. You should invest in a basic book on science.
He also said economics, psychology, and sociology was a pseudo-science. But you should stick to the topic, sir, and save the popper debate for the philosophy forums.
Extract the pertinent info and quote it here, and provide the source. Unless of course you were simply spewing out names and resources without knowing how they support your claim.
it seems you have never done legitimate research in your life. Step 1: find people who have done similar research. Step 2: use the research to re-enforce your own research findings if similar. It sounds like you need to invest in a basic book of science, too.
More claims without support, yet again. Nothing to prove any kind of mechanism that enables clairvoyance or remote viewing. Which scientists are "working to isolate the exact part of the brain responsible for RVing".
Yet just one more unsupported claim in the deluge of static. and
No no no. YOU make the claim, YOU bring the evidence. Copy down the pertinent evidence, and the source. Just because you can't cut and paste, doesn't mean you can't type.andSo it was the "journal articles" that conducted these tests??? Evidence of this? What journal articles, success?? Where?So use the same "successful psychics" who have supposedly passed experiments. No word on that one though.
I have offered to send you a copy of my information, you have declined. You have refused to look at my evidence. If anyone else wants to look at this please send me an e-mail address.
and Sam Vaknin, Ph.D said:
Three historic developments contributed to the propagation and popularity of psychical research:
(1) The introduction into Parapsychology of scientific methods of observation, experimentation, and analysis (e.g., the use of statistics and probability in the studies conducted at the Parapsychology Laboratory of North Carolina's Duke University by the American psychologist Joseph Banks Rhine and in the more recent remote viewing ganzfeld sensory deprivation experiments);
(2) The emergence of counter-intuitive models of reality, especially in physics, incorporating such concepts as nonlocal action-at-a-distance (e.g., Bell's theorem), emergentism, multiverses, hidden dimensions, observer effects ("mind over matter"), and creation ex nihilo. These models are badly understood by laymen and have led to the ostensible merger of physics and metaphysics;
(3) The eventual acceptance by the scientific community and incorporation into the mainstream of science of phenomena that were once considered paranormal and then perinormal (e.g., hypnotism).
As many scholars noted, psi (psychic) and other anomalous phenomena and related experiments can rarely be reproduced in rigorous laboratory settings. Though at least 130 years old, the field generated no theories replete with falsifiable predictions. Additionally, the deviation of finite sets of data (e.g., the number of cards correctly guessed by subjects) from predictions yielded by the laws of probability - presented as the field's trump card - is nothing out of the ordinary. Furthermore, statistical significance and correlation should not be misconstrued as proofs of cause and effect.
Consequently, there is no agreement as to what constitutes a psi event.
Still, these are weak refutations. They apply with equal force to the social "sciences" (e.g., to economics and psychology) and even to more robust fields like biology or medicine. Yet no one disputes the existence of economic behavior or the human psyche.
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/23177.html
BTW, your 1st skeptic link is dead. And for every scholarly skeptic you generate, I can generate a scholarly that refutes what you cut n' paste. As you yourself have said, anyone can put little blurbs into a document, it's the research behind it.
And this is the exact sloppy thinking that you have displayed ad infinitum. If as you originally claimed, that these "psychics" were collecting $700.00 cheques, and the lotto comission notes these winners, then their "hits", can be tracked. NOT only tracked, but by a impartial third party, the lotto people. But of course now, yuor story changes, so now it can't really be looked into. NOW, you are claimiong that these "psychics" pick up cheques here and there for various amounts (note NONE are over the $599.00 line). Whereas in your original claim:(please spell check your stuff)
Here is where your your assumptions break down. If someone wins $$$, they present the winning lotto ticket to the cashier. The cashier puts the ticket in the machine to see if the ticket is legit. If it's legit, the machine records the results that the ticket was a winner. The cashier gives them the winner the $$$, and they go on their way. No record of the person's address or driver license number is recorded. Next, you are assuming that the winner of the pick 3 buys only 1 ticket. I never elicited that information. I suggested they made that much in a day. You can buy multiple tickets and win amounts ranging from $40 - $500. My plan, like theirs, was to win with low numbers: around $250 range and buy 3 of them, to lower the odds of winning. From 1:1,000 to 1:167.
next time please ask for clarification rather then assume.
Regarding your previous mentiojn (please spell check your stuff)of PEAR (Princeton), if you had even done an ounce of actual legwork, you would have found out that the PEAR lab at Princeton has been CLOSED.
It was open from 1979 and closed in February 2007. I fail to see the point of that, departments close down all the time, sir. Meanwhile, Duke University and Oxford University have still continued their programs.
While i feel that dialog with skeptics is healthy, it helps tighten up controls, points out problems, but there is a point where an individual becomes respectful and constructive to turn into some one who is hard-nosed and critical. Meanwhile, your whitewashing and hen pecking of facts violates modern skeptics dogma: "We skeptics don't deny mysterious events," he [CICAP Chairman Steno Ferluga, professor of astrophysics at the University of Trieste] said. "We come here to solve them." http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-126316667.html
Blaise McPyrrho have not even attempted to solve them and has failed the opening line in all books dealing with science - "The goal of science is to explain the world around us." | |
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Tasu
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Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 49 | |
| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/17/2007 3:18:37 PM |
it seems you have never done legitimate research in your life. Step 1: find people who have done similar research. Step 2: use the research to re-enforce your own research findings if similar. It sounds like you need to invest in a basic book of science, too.
this brings to mind the adage about people in glasshouses throwing stones. using research to re-enforce one's own findings and not taking account contrary evidence (which i assume the poster advocates, as there is no mention of alternative results) cannot be called serious (or legitimate, if you prefer) science in any connotation. bias, maybe, or even bigotry - but serious research? not by a long shot  .
trust me, i'm a doctor . | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 10/17/2007 4:12:03 PM | While I'm sure this is being experimented with, if they find anything positive, I doubt they'd publish it... It just sounds to me like something they would keep under wraps.
I do believe certain people have tapped into an element of psychic ability... Dreaming about someone you haven't seen in a long time only to wake up to a phone call from said person or in the case of my Mom, dreaming of a woman walking by in high heeled shoes meant someone in the family was going to die real soon(big family so death weas no stranger)... Sometimes instead of the dream, she would hear three knocks... I remember being the little shit that I was, and knocking on the back of my closet(which was on the opposite side of the wall as my Moms)... She was up in no time and running around checking on all of us kids and making calls the next day... I felt so bad I hadda come clean... Still to this day I'm not sure if she was more relieved or angry, lol.
I don't know if I believe anyone has it honed to the degree of controlling it for personal gain, but you never know I suppose.
Man! I bet this thread is getting some attention from lurkers who want the KEY to winning lotto!
My bad? | |
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. add to that the words attributed to another sage
for now.
