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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/28/2008 9:57:04 PM | Just out of idle curiousity, and bear with me on this, I recall reading that RV's can be blocked by other RV's...can they be blocked by other means? What about occult practicioners skilled at meditation, astral projection, defensive type rituals or things along those lines?
Have you ever attempted to RV a site and found that you were "actively" blocked?
And regarding Ingo Swann, Ed Dames and the others, while I have read of the tests conducted with Swann and such it is not exactly recent. It is noteworthy to mention that since the military was actively interested in RV that it bears looking at.
It is also noteworthy that they - at least as far as we know - dismantled the project...hmmm I wonder.
And you did see my comment about the JREF? You are aware of them I imagine...no way to be involved in this and not be aware of the skeptics skeptic James Randi. when most people ask for proof, it is this level of proof that they are asking for...not subjective, but objective and preferably reproducible and peer-reviewed. There is more than a little - a lot - of bias against psi phenomenon...but for obvious reasons. If you can't see why, then perhaps you need to step back a shade and put the shoe on the other foot for a second.
If you like we could conduct a little experiment here if you think it might work. I propose drawing an easy symbol or shape on the white board near my computer a convenient number of times or something similar if you'd care to recommend it over a certain time period if you are engaged in RV activity and we could report the results. We could get several individuals to do this if you like and see the results...could be quite fascinating. Up to you...could also be a good free ad  | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/28/2008 10:23:33 PM | Good idea.
Describe any of the four walls in my office. What's on them? I'll only be impressed with specific answers. "A window" or "Door" will not impress me. What color is it? Size? Orientation on the wall (left / right / center). Is there anything else on that wall? Describe it in full detail. Good luck. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/28/2008 10:40:18 PM | Good grief, you dirty devil. I see a beige wall on the left with a big poster of a nude woman displaying her puppies. I'm giving up this remote viewing lark..
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/29/2008 12:20:08 AM |
There is more than a little - a lot - of bias against psi phenomenon...but for obvious reasons
That's because they question what they don't understand and they don't understand the subject from a rigorous scientific basis. But, then again, there was a great deal of establishment bias against the notion that the earth was round. But I completely understand exactly why they feel that way and if I hadn't personally experienced it for myself, I'd probably never have believed it either.
In fact, before meeting her, the first image (of the notion of psychic phenomena) that would come to mind is the stereotypical "fortune teller". I never took it seriously. Ever.
But the things she psychic revealed to me, SPECIFIC THINGS, absolutely convinced me. Now, if this had been some sort of hoax, in the dozen years since I met her, I can't imagine how she could have benefitted in any way from telling me what she told me! She never asked for, in fact stridently refused, any money although I was gladly willing to pay some to simply support the cause.
In my way of thinking, there are many ways to KNOW something. One way is to know it intellectually, through rigorous scientific protocols, and the second way, is to experience it.
What amuses me is that the government's shill UFO debunker offers an incredibly hysterical "performance" making himself out to be a fool. During one CNN News special on recent UFO sightings, most notably the incident at Chicago O'Hair Intl. airport where literally hundreds of people in the vicinity of the airport saw a cylindrical UFO literally hovering over the terminal on a densely cloudy night, quietly - no sound, for several second, and that when it, almost instantly, zoomed up silently out of sight. It left so quickly that it left a hole in the cloud cover straight though so people could see start light. This was seen by travelers as well as several flight and ground crew from United Airlines. Pretty gutsy of those guys to come forward FINALLY. That's "job risk" time for an airline pilot 'ya know. Swamp gas? Northern lights? Yeah right.
Anyway, my point was, for those people that were there and experienced it for themselves, they don't need any more proof and, on the flip side, for those who weren't, it would never been enough proof. I don't think those who died in Hiroshima KNEW any less of the consequences of dropping an A-Bomb any more or less than the scientists who created it. They both knew...in different ways, but the end result is the same, no?
Getting back to the cabal "debunker", he was faced with a panel of 4 or 5 people, all heavily involved in science, many degrees, in science and the UFO phenomena. They discussed various recent (and not so recent) sightings, all with witness narratives and, in many cases, impressive videos (yes Martha, I KNOW THEY CAN BE FAKED, so save it - many people look at the handwriting on the wall and call it a forgery. 'Yer choice). Faced with all that (from about twenty diverse witnesses) the debunker was asked to state his opinion.
Keep in mind that this man, I can't remember his name off the top of my head, was announced as the official UFO debunker. I've seen him at least a dozen times now on every UFO documentary and news interview. Try and catch his act. He's hilarious. I almost threw a creme pie at the TV last time I saw him.
His response to EACH AND EVERY INCIDENT?? "They didn't really see what they thought they saw". End of story. *rimshot*
WTF kind of answer is that? And this is from an OFFICIAL anything?? An official what? Moron? This clown wasn't intellectually worthy of a job at Walmart as a V.P. in charge of stacking greeting cards of one very limited category. What kind of nonsense rubbish is the public being fed? (Remember, we ARE treated like mushrooms after all....and we know how that goes...)
I'm not saying the skeptics are wrong so debate is pointless. I'm simply saying they don't "know" yet. The mind is such a tricky little bugger after all. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/29/2008 2:44:07 AM | Perhaps people have forgotten as message # 102 suggests :
For about ten years "a one-million-dollar prize is offered to anyone who can show,
under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power."
As of April 1, 2007, any applicant will be required to have a media profile.
A television a newspaper account, some press write-up, or a reference in a book.
The second requirement will be that the applicant must provide an endorsement of an academic nature.
In January 2008, it was announced that the offer of the million dollar prize will cease on March 6, 2010.
AMAZING - no one in the 6 BILLION people on the planet could claim the money !!
-- the prize was extremely well publicized in over 100 countries world wide for 20 years
Let's face it folks, it's a bunch of nonsense or else someone would have taken the million dollars | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/29/2008 5:39:28 AM | | Back in August 1977 I had a dream that the space shuttle had completed its test flight and the next days papers said Shuttles flight went o.k. The following night I had a dream that a famous artist had died, the following mornings papers said the King was dead (Elvis Presley) they were my 1st moments, I have had a few since but they are few and far between I would never be able to make a living off them, S but yes I am a believer. A lot of you would call it all a load of cods wallop (fake). It may have happened to you without you noticing so beware, strange things do happen. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/29/2008 3:13:39 PM | So, once again - when real proof is asked for, people:
1) Get really quited all of a sudden
2) Talk about this one time they had a dream / vision / feeling / whatever that [insert event here] was going to happen. Then sometime in the future [insert event here] happened. So what? What about the hundreds - if not THOUSANDS of dreams / visions / feelings / whatever that never came to fruition? And - where's the proof that said vision & evens even happened?
Honestly - as a society we should be well beyond this kind of logic. This is like saying, "I did a rain dance, and the next day it rained!" That isn't "proof" - that's two independent events. The dance didn't "will" the rain into existence, it was coming anyway.
I'm not saying psychic / supernatural phenomena doesn't happen. I just have yet to see any real proof. And, as these phenomena continue to get debunked or explained by legitimate science - it's getting harder and harder to keep an open mind. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/30/2008 5:50:09 AM | | ^^I'm not sure where you get this reply from. response 107 clearly used the word "believer" ie in response to the OP. they might not have even read your request for proof. as for the million dollar deal... who's to say that the ones that can prove it(and some can) don't already have all the money they need, the means to get it, or otherwise don't want the publicity and general negativity that surrounds such an offering. there will still be fraud psychics even if someone proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is a force to be reconned with. What do you hope to accomplish with such proof? | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/30/2008 1:32:16 PM |
And regarding Ingo Swann, Ed Dames and the others, while I have read of the tests conducted with Swann and such it is not exactly recent. It is noteworthy to mention that since the military was actively interested in RV that it bears looking at.
I'm missin something here. His tests were in the early 70's. Double blind. Even a test clearly demonstrating telekinesis , recorded on electronic equipment. Among other things completely accurately described the chemical composition of the giant planets in our solar system. Fully documented...and ummm, because they're don in the '70's they're not valid?
As far as Ed Dames and his predictions of an agent in Africa that would destroy food crops? He predicted this over 10 years ago.
Guess what?
http://moneynews.com/money/archives/st/2008/4/24/100454.cfm?s=st
Wheat Crop Failures Could be Total, Experts Warn
Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:03 a.m. EDT
On top of record-breaking rice prices and corn through the roof on ethanol demand, wheat is now rusting in the fields across Africa.
Officials fear near total crop losses, and the fungus, known as Ug99, is spreading.
Wheat prices have been soaring this week on top of already high prices, and futures contracts spiked, too, on panic buying.
Experts fear the cost of bread could soon follow the path of rice, the price of which has triggered riots in some countries and prompted countries to cut off exports.
David Kotok, chairman and chief investment officer of Cumberland Advisors, said the deadly fungus, Puccinia graminis, is now spreading through some areas of the globe where "crop losses are expected to reach 100 percent.”
Losses in Africa are already at 70 percent of the crop, Kotok said.
"The economic losses expected from this fungus are now in the many billions and growing. Worse, there is an intensifying fear of exacerbated food shortages in poor and emerging countries of the world,” Kotok told investors in a research note.
"The ramifications are serious. Food rioting continues to expand around the world. We saw the most recent in Johannesburg.
"So far this unrest has been directed at rising prices. Actual shortages are still to come.”
Last month, scientists met in the Middle East to determine measures to track the progress of "Ug99,” which was first discovered in 1999 in Uganda.
The fungus has spread from its initial outbreak site in Africa to Asia, including Iran and Pakistan. Spores of the fungus spread with the winds, according science journal reports.
According to the Food and Agriculture Office (FAO) of the United Nations, approximately a quarter of the world’s global wheat harvest is currently threatened by the fungus.
Meanwhile, global wheat stocks are at lows not seen in half a century, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
Scientists fear that the spores could spread on the wind and reach the U.S. and Canada or Europe.
"It will take five to eight years to genetically engineer a resistance,” said Kotok. "In the interim, U.S. agriculture faces higher risk.” | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/30/2008 4:43:59 PM | Why doesn't Ed Dames have 1 million $$$$ in his pocket from the challenge ??
Because he merely got lucky with a coincidence, that's why.
The tests in the 70's were poorly done, poorly documented, not exactly peer reviewed
world wide by scientists in 100 plus countries, and they can't be duplicated.
--Every organization involved at the time has disbanded, lost interest, lost funding, etc.
No one today will touch that stuff with a 1 mile long pole and 1 Billion dollars funding.
Many, many people really don't have good math skills and fewer still have
a solid grasp of probability and statistics ...i.e. the hard facts about events.
a.) I predict someone will die tomorrow ....there is a distinct chance :
Major Cardiovascular Disease will have killed 2,527 people in USA tomorrow
Malignancies 1517
Motor Vehicle Accidents 120
Respiratory Diseases 338
Influenza, Pneumonia & Tuberculosis 172
b.) I'll even predict one dead person tomorrow will be wearing black pants.
c.) I'll even predict the dead person tomorrow is from California (most populated state in the USA)
d.) Combine all that with a prediction of a birthday in March (a one in 12 chance of being right)
Shall I continue or is it becoming clear how easy this stuff is ?
People are super duper gullible and want to believe in unique super powers ! | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/30/2008 7:44:00 PM | To answer the original question . . . . yes.
Not everyone is going to be 'into it' as everyone is an individual whose outlook, experiences, character, background etc are all different. This isn't coming out well, is it, but hopefully some people out there will know what I am heading towards. I guess its a bit like religion, and the ongoing 'lets pidgeon hole everything' and 'there has to be a convenient theory of everything,' and .... arrgggghhhhh!
Ommmmmmmmmmm | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 4/30/2008 9:58:29 PM |
Perhaps people have forgotten as message # 102 suggests :
For about ten years "a one-million-dollar prize is offered to anyone who can show,
under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power."
Perhaps you have forgotten what people who have experienced these true psychics have said. The true psychic will NEVER accept money in exchange for their gift. Why should they have to prove themselves to anyone?
I guarantee if YOU personally experience the real deal, you will have had more then enough proof for you. Although there are many people who see the writing on the wall and will still call it a forgery. Go figure. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/1/2008 7:26:36 AM | The reason nobody has mr Randi's one million dollars is because his one million dollar promise is a HOAX. He is a professional skeptic and he'd like to keep it that way.
Remote viewing has been proven time and time again.
For those asking to do an experiment in RV, I would love to but you first must understand how it works.
I can not tell you what's on your walls with remote viewing, plus that's an incredible amount of front loading which would interfere with the RV to begin with. It is way too easy for the conscious mind to take over during a session when you know you are trying to describe somebody's computer room. Also, RV is not 100% accurate, ever. At best it's about 80%, and you can never trust one viewers work or a single session for anything. Operational remote viewers (those who work on cases for missing people, military CIA, etc) work in teams of highly trained and practiced viewers and taskers and analysts.
The program was shut down because word had gotten out that the government was funding PSYCHICS! Look at how skeptical everyone is, do you think the government bodies wanted the public to know they were spending their tax dollars on PSYCHICS?! of course not, that's when STARGATE was terminated because it was the program that was known about. To this day there are still secret remote viewing/psi related organizations running within governments. They are successful programs that provide some useful information that can not be obtained from other sources. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/1/2008 12:47:33 PM |
Psychic ability is a definite.
It's been proven.
Of course, not all "psychics" are legit. And not all psychic abilities have been proven, but many have.
You see it's claims like this that make me roll my eyes. "It's been proven." Proven how? In what way? By whom? To what level? This field of endeavour deserves some legitimate attention, and this is not the way to obtain it.
I am a remote viewer. Remote viewing has been long proven and is recently gaining in popularity. It's a trainable, learnable skill which allows ANYONE to gather accurate information on anything, anyone, anywhere, anywhen in the entire universe, past, present, future... It's very real, I practice it myself and am actually planning on teaching beginner level CRV (coordinate remote viewing) lessons in fall/winter of this year.
...
I can not tell you what's on your walls with remote viewing, plus that's an incredible amount of front loading which would interfere with the RV to begin with. It is way too easy for the conscious mind to take over during a session when you know you are trying to describe somebody's computer room. Also, RV is not 100% accurate, ever. At best it's about 80%, and you can never trust one viewers work or a single session for anything.
And what sort of fee do you plan on charging people to teach this "skill" which you yourself describe as unreliable and others have frankly described as totally imaginary. In another thread you asked inappropriately if I was a professional skeptic and I have already made it clear that I am not in my post above. I am quite willing to entertain the possibility of psi or the paranormal. However stating with absolute certainty that it is real, certain and proven without adequate evidence, and possibly charging large amounts for psychic services - which I hope you won't be doing, though it is of course not any of my business - is the surest way to drive all but the desperate and gullible away. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/1/2008 3:09:11 PM | To prove to a skeptic that the earth is round is an impossibility; do not worry there will always exist naysayers who will say, "Dang blast it, no man has ever set foot on the moon!"
Proving to someone that ESP exists is like proving to a color blind person that red is yellow; they will argue with you until they are "blue" in the face, before they realize that color is an abstraction and not real. They are not smart enough to envision beyond their nose.
Visionaries always lead the world; people who think outside the box make new discovers and those who are content to see only what is visible; will always have to be content to live with what they know is true. Thank the stars, not all people are content with things as they are.  | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/1/2008 3:13:22 PM |
Visionaries always lead the world; people who think outside the box make new discovers and those who are content to see only what is visible; will always have to be content to live with what they know is true. Thank the stars, not all people are content with things as they are.  Couldn't agree more | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/1/2008 4:13:36 PM | I believe many things are possible until proved beyond all doubt otherwise...
Outward looking souls will always make new discoveries and offer us more to contemplate. I also believe, as the progressive humans we are, we haven't even scratched the surface. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/1/2008 5:09:32 PM | I have no need to prove something that's already been proven.
How about a quick google search on Remote Viewing? I already listed several names of those who have worked on it, developed it, proved it, and used it.
Yes, when I begin teaching CRV I will be charging a fee. Do you charge fees to teach music?
And to be honest, nobody wants to teach a skeptic anyway because nothing works for skeptics because they do not allow it to.
As stated above, you can try and try to say to someone that the earth is round, but if they truly believe it's flat, it's flat. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/1/2008 5:42:46 PM | Truth about government programs in remote viewing - hardly a slam dunk endorsement !!
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/06/dinner-with.html
John Alexander, a former Green Beret, earned a reputation
in the 1990s as a vocal advocate of nonlethal weapons research.
He was also a champion of the government’s now defunct “Remote Viewing” program,
which, until its termination in 1995, sought to use psychics in the service of national security. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/1/2008 6:24:10 PM | Has anyone heard of Dannion Brinkley? I saw him on TV years ago - he was struck by lightning in 1975, was dead and came back.
While he was dead he saw his life flash before him in panoramic view - he was a bully and felt how he made others feel, he said you judge yourself
I haven't read any of his books but I guess he does predictions now | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/1/2008 6:41:52 PM |
I have no need to prove something that's already been proven.
How about a quick google search on Remote Viewing? I already listed several names of those who have worked on it, developed it, proved it, and used it.
 Uh-huh. That's the standard internet cop-out if ever I have heard one. Mind you, as is readily apparent, psychic powers and magic pixies are not held to a high standard of proof. So if I hang a shingle outside my door saying I give "angel readings", who is to gainsay me...besides anyone familiar with Russell's Teapot argument and a lick of sense...???
Yes, when I begin teaching CRV I will be charging a fee. Do you charge fees to teach music?
SNAP! That's the sound of a weak thin analogy being stretched to the breaking point. When someone picks up a musical instrument and plays it, they may not master it but tangible immediate sounds are produced. Common knowledge quite distinguishable from imagination.
To charge for a "skill" that is essentially proven only at a "fringe" level is dubious and ethically questionable at best, larcenous and lazy at the worst. I'm certainly not going to provide someone with money for a nickel bag so that they can teach me guided imagery...
If you want to label someone a "skeptic" simply because they find it questionable to believe in something with no better than blind faith as well as open their purse strings to that effect, then I would suggest that a bit of selective redefining of words is going on.
I'm not skeptical of all claims of the paranormal, psi powers, an unseen world... but as of this moment I am becoming very skeptical of certain overly emphatic claims of solidity of proof that aren't anything near academic grade, followed by insults of prejudice against the same academia when any mention of a standard is held up. That smacks of basic cholarly incompetance...and cowardice. It doesn't look in any way like a pursuit of knowledge and truth, spiritual or otherwise.
Just my two shekelim...YMMV. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/1/2008 8:45:56 PM | | themadfiddler let me pose a hypthetical. Let's assume to were introduced to and met a real psychic and what she told you after touching something of yours or you yourself (specifics that she otherwise could not know), and it absolutely blew you away, would you believe it even if you had no clue from a scientific standpoint about how or why it works? Or would you just call it coincidence and/or dumb luck? | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/1/2008 9:05:22 PM |
themadfiddler let me pose a hypthetical. Let's assume to were introduced to and met a real psychic and what she told you after touching something of yours or you yourself (specifics that she otherwise could not know), and it absolutely blew you away, would you believe it even if you had no clue from a scientific standpoint about how or why it works? Or would you just call it coincidence and/or dumb luck?
Thank you for posing that question as hopefully my answer will help put my position on this into perspective.
In fact I HAVE had just that experience...on a number of occasions. I have experienced phenomenon in my own practice of occult techniques that do not fit into neat guidelines of provable experience.
What I bristle against and the point I have been trying to make while some have been trying to hustle and pigeonhole me into the box marked skeptic is shouting from the rooftops that paranormal experiences are as "real" as any other experience in "concensus" reality. I have to call B.S. at that point. We are not even entirely sure of what all of the full parameters and ramifications of concensus reality are but we do know that if we step in front of a speeding logging truck, at least this bodily shell we are in will likely cease to function. That is a reliable certainty under most circumstances. What is not a certainty is making cold hard claims about ESP, or magic, or religion...
And as many as would accuse the born-again fundamentalist Christian, belief will only get you so far. If something functions or ceases to function as a matter of belief or non-belief, then quantify it. What is operating there? Or not operating? Why should belief or non-belief have any effect on something? One needs to ask questions like that...either something works, doesn't, or is operating under laws you don't currently understand and you need to learn more about it. Admitting you simply don't know is not a sin.
However when anyone starts stating with 100% certainty that something IS or IS not proven, one would assume they have the data to back it up...it just isn't there with the paranormal, nor should one expect it as of yet as we might not yet have the tools...if ever. We may not know what to measure for. Or as I believe Lon Milo DuQuette said, "It may all be in your head, but you have no idea how big your head really is."
My belief or non-belief doesn't really enter into it. I prefer to maintain a healthy level of doubt until otherwise shown reliable data and will continue to bristle at claims of truth certainty and likely ask for as much proof as a Missouri mule from those claiming it...preparing to laugh when none is forthcoming as they have proven the old adage about opening mouths and removing all doubt.
I am even willing to go out on a limb and say that to a certain extent, people teaching certain skills labelled new age should be able to receive an honourarium for their time. But when you see people engaged in the New Age trade charging hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars for what amounts to the "emperor's new clothes" one has to step back and again tell some of these people "That dog won't hunt." It amounts to preying on gullibility, fear of death, and running a psycho-spiritual shell game. Those folks need to get a real job.
Again, just my opinion...and keep in mind I do entertain the possibility of these things...I just don't let my brain fall out from keeping my mind so open... | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 6:24:23 AM | After reading your posts(not only in this thread), madfiddler, I am no longer interested in replying to you. I had motive earlier in the day to go through the trouble of scanning and producing a few of my better remote viewing sessions, and doing a nice little write up with sources and such, but after reading your ridiculous posts in this thread, I believe it's probably for the better if we agree to disagree. I do not like arguing, I've got better things to spend my limited time doing. Especially over something like this, which I am sure will always seem impossible to you no matter how strong the evidence showing otherwise. You have made your point, you do not believe in the paranormal or psi, although you say you are open to it. Much the same as Mr.Randi.
I have no interest in trying to sway anybodies beliefs. I know it works. I practice it all the time and see the results. It HAS been proven, not by me, but by numerous others. If you don't believe me, and are too lazy to go look for yourself, that's really not an issue that I am going to spend any more of my time on because quite simply, it doesn't matter.
If you do not think it's fair to charge somebody for lessons then I think you'd best get off the planet because everywhere you look people charge for skills, training, knowledge, shoelaces, anything you can imagine. If you do not think it's worth your money, then don't pay for it. Nobody is forcing you. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 7:19:04 AM | And for anybody interested in knowing more about remote viewing, try checking out some of the following websites:
http://www.remoteviewed.com/
http://www.irva.org/
http://www.firedocs.com/remoteviewing/
http://www.trv-psitech.com/index.htm
http://www.tenthousandroads.com/
http://www.rviewer.com/
http://www.farsight.org/
http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/
http://www.crviewer.com/
http://www.hrvg.org/
If those links aren't enough, I've got more. ;) | |
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