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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 12:24:36 PM | "You see it's claims like this that make me roll my eyes. "It's been proven." Proven how? In what way? By whom? To what level? This field of endeavour deserves some legitimate attention, and this is not the way to obtain it."
I couldn't agree more! I tend to be a believer in psychic ability , in a general sense. It's never been adequately proven ,or debunked in my mind, and just because you can't measure, or quantify something doesn't make it false, incorrect or impossible.
Is it possible that at one time in the distant past , we all had this ability? Some to greater or lesser degrees than others, like eye sight or hearing, some of us have better eyes than ears and vice versa. What if psychic ability is an extension of our own " gut feeling " or " gut instinct ", something we all feel in one way or another at times. A tenuous theory at best, but no more so than research that's used to disprove psychic ability.
I'm guessing a psychiatrist might not admit it, but what we assume we " know " and " understand " about the human brain is very small relative to what we don't "know" or "understand". Who's to say what we might be able to do if we open our selves to the mere possibility.
I've read about a young man ,from Vancouver , Canada I believe, who heals others remotely in dreams. He calls himself Adam, and has some very interesting ideas and testimonials to his credit. Do I believe it? I'm not sure, I love the notion, or idea, it's a bit of a stretch for me, but again I can't disregard the possibility.
Real research is what's in order here. And just because American government, military or FBI says they stopped using it doesn't mean they did. They tell us all sorts of things, like Iraq is about freedom from tyranny and stopping terrorism.
once again .... Short story Long....
It's foolhardy to reject something simply because you've never experienced it first hand. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 12:59:31 PM |
If you do not think it's fair to charge somebody for lessons then I think you'd best get off the planet because everywhere you look people charge for skills, training, knowledge, shoelaces, anything you can imagine. If you do not think it's worth your money, then don't pay for it. Nobody is forcing you.
I made my point and point of view very very clear to anyone with basic reading comprehension and your strawman aside, it was also pretty clear that I don't dismiss the paranormal...just blanket claims of absolute proof...especially by people charging money for services of such because its usually by such that I can spot a huckster.
As to the above quote I think its also pretty clear that you want to keep analogizing what you want to do with more tangible and real products. If you want to do that, that is also your right. Just be aware that as you say not everyone will pay you for it, and not everyone will view you as "above board" for wanting to do so. And you're right about agreeing to disagree I don't think we have anything further to say on this topic...
However, if you think that's the case do you really think it clever to proceed to ressurrect a dead topic thread on $cientology if you don't want to carry on a debate with someone you know you don't want to carry on a debate with? Just sayin
I'd say roll up a  and call it a day bra... ev'ry'ting gonna be a'right. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 2:10:54 PM | | I've had some very good experience with various psychics. I've also run into some sleeze bags, too. For the most part, the real people are accurate around 85% of the time and the ability runs in family as a genetic component. Example, those who are of Native American blood lines, etc. Being in contact with the mystical world was always a part of life for indigenous folks. The "medicine woman/man" were someone in the tribe with such talents. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 2:14:29 PM | "I'm guessing a psychiatrist might not admit it, but what we assume we " know " and " understand " about the human brain is very small relative to what we don't "know" or "understand". Who's to say what we might be able to do if we open our selves to the mere possibility. " by Dill Pickle.
Friends I know in Salem, MA with all the witchie tourist have had over the years a lot of psychiartist come to them for information in trying to figure out patient's head trips. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 2:33:00 PM |
as for the million dollar deal... who's to say that the ones that can prove it(and some can) don't already have all the money they need, the means to get it, or otherwise don't want the publicity and general negativity that surrounds such an offering.
So, your evidence for the existence of the paranormal is that no one's been able to prove it - because they don't want to?
there will still be fraud psychics even if someone proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is a force to be reconned with
So what? There's frauds in just about (if not every) profession. In this case, I just believe everyone in the job is a fraud.
What do you hope to accomplish with such proof?
If there were such proof, it would open a lot of new doors. How can we stop the next Hitler from coming to power? Can we tell if green energy is working? Which would be the best green technology to "get behind" as a society?
The reason nobody has mr Randi's one million dollars is because his one million dollar promise is a HOAX.
Do you have any evidence of this?
Remote viewing has been proven time and time again.
Can you link me to the evidence of this?
I can not tell you what's on your walls with remote viewing.
Then what CAN you tell me that would substantiate your claims?
At best it's about 80%, and you can never trust one viewers work or a single session for anything.
Okay. By what standard are you calling something "accurate"? Can I run a control group against it to measure the difference in your success vs the control group?
Operational remote viewers (those who work on cases for missing people, military CIA, etc) work in teams of highly trained and practiced viewers and taskers and analysts.
We've already addressed this. The RV got fired for not producing any real results. See posts made earlier in this thread for links to the studies.
The program was shut down because word had gotten out that the government was funding PSYCHICS!
It was shut down 'cause it didn't work. See above statement. If it worked, all the gov would've had do to is say "Hey, RV have been successful in helping us... here's our evidence."
To this day there are still secret remote viewing/psi related organizations running within governments. They are successful programs that provide some useful information that can not be obtained from other sources.
If it's "secret" how do you know it's successful? Can you provide evidence of their success, or are you just going to keep blowing sunshine where it doesn't belong? | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 3:17:46 PM | The How-To-Be-A-Remote-Viewer manual ....
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-expert-mind&colID=1
http://p-i-a.com/Magazine/Issue27/Connections_27.html
It's true because it was on the internet.....right....lol. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 5:10:11 PM | | Just happened to read over these posts...so, because nothing has been proved so far, it doesnt exist?!! How did human existance get this far without questioning what does exist? Molecules, dna, technology, etc...unseen, unexplored for how long but now is "the norm"...Narrow-mindedness breeds ignorance, an open mind is what keeps humanity progressing forward, hopefully we will continue to go forward, not backwards! | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 5:30:28 PM |
Just happened to read over these posts...so, because nothing has been proved so far, it doesnt exist?!! How did human existance get this far without questioning what does exist?
No one is saying that as far as I can tell. I am certainly not. Quite the opposite. What has been said is however, that one shouldn't go claiming things are "proven" without reliable valid and preferably replicable evidence...that's called the scientific method.
Molecules, dna, technology, etc...unseen, unexplored for how long but now is "the norm"
People believed that Demons caused disease and that this was a fact until the scientific method showed that it was not the case. No one is saying that psychic ability or remote viewing does not exist...all that is being said is that broad claims to have absolute factual evidence of such and additionally that charging exorbitant fees for "training" in such skills is - in my opinion at least - defrauding someone, as there is not as of yet replicable, consistent evidence or even good working theoretical models of it.
One of the closest possibilities of such might be the "holographic universe" model as popularized in the book by the same name and postulated by both a neuroscientist and quantum physicist who arrived at it on their own in parallel study. Yet this is stioll considered highly controversial and fringe despite the staggering credentials of the two men, Pribram and Bohm.
Narrow-mindedness breeds ignorance, an open mind is what keeps humanity progressing forward, hopefully we will continue to go forward, not backwards!
Couldn't agree more... but giving way to mountebanks, charlatans and bad science, along with cultists and freaks helps us to live in a demon-haunted world ( Thank you Carl Sagan and your Baloney Detector which is sadly needed in this thread) of fear and ignorance that is just as bad as a narrow minded one... as the great proverb says, "The Truth shall set you free." | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 5:45:31 PM | this thread is getting funny to me, and I'm done here.
I'm not here to prove anything.
If you don't want to find out for yourself, then I'd rather let you live your life in ignorance. I have no problems with that. The majority of folks on this planet are happy living in their 5 sense reality, dumbed down by television and the media, prescription drugs, the internet, fluoride water, aspartame, chemtrails and the like. I cannot change that and I am content watching it all fall to pieces.
I don't expect everyone to believe remote viewing works, because quite obviously not everyone does.
I do. I practice almost every day and about 4 to 5 times a week I get what I would consider a "hit".
There have been tons of control, double blind, blind, experiments done at SRI and in the intelligence operations. If you don't want to go check it out, then that's too bad. . I guess you'll never know just how capable we are. . And that's just fine by me.
If you believe the RV programs were shut down because they were not producing, you're sadly mistaken. Remote viewing is a very real ability, everyone has it and can do it, and often do use it without even knowing.
Go on, live your life of limits and boundaries, enjoi!
EDIT: Im not going to take much time here, but Im going to attach a couple of my sessions and my session feedback here just to give an example of what a decent remote viewing session turns out like:
Here is my session summary for this target : http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8991/feedbackzo6.jpg
I obviously did not know what the target was before doing the session or it wouldn't be much practice. I have no way to prove that other than the software used at Tenthousandroads.com doesnt allow you to look at your feedback until you've entered your session data.. If this isn't good enough for you, then I don't know what is.
Session summary:
Session Intro:
felt really frustrated in this session.. terminated it after only a few minutes..
nothing was coming to me at first, and I could not stop focusing on what the TV was saying upstairs, even though it was not very loud.
My sister also interrupted me during the session, so i became quickly frustrated and quit. I moved prematurely to stage 3 for some reason, and quit after only a few sketches.
Summary:
nothing makes much sense from this session.. i dont even want to type it out..
im probably going to regret it though.
got some upright vertical beige hard things again, with energetics running wavy along its side
drew some hard brown smooth things with grey angular and thick something placed between them and above them.
then a bean shaped white thing, a hollow hot metallic thing with a curve in it, and a rectangular thin and brown thing underneath the curvy and the beaner
something splashing and wavy, a hollow dense green metallic thing coming out of that, its cold. to the right of that there are some brown hard horizontals and a curving smooth, solid, dense, hard, warm brown right angle
had an AOL of a hot air balloon and water. a balloon shape, with a dark hard black line running down its center. The balloon shaped thing is soft, cool, inside, airy, yellow and clean.
next sketch had a peaked thing, which gave me an AOL of a teepee or tent. It's warm, hollow, soft, brown and had the word inside next to it.
Coming out of its top is something flat on one side and rounded on the other.. hard and grey and hot, puffy also.. AOL of smoke from that
next to that I drew a cold metal tube
Under neath these items is a brown bump going across the bottom, gritty, cool, bumpy..
next sketch was a circle with a curve above the top/right side of it. the curve is medium-hard, blue, and wet. the circle is "open"
next sketch was a circle probed and labeled dense, moist, wet, blue, and hard, there is something metal connecting this to a vertical dense hard grey rectangle. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 6:07:10 PM | And how about my first ever good hit? I always like to show this one off, it was probably about my 6th or 7th session as a remote viewer. I was using a different method other than CRV, I was using Ed Dames' Learn RV method on this target. This one was scanned and uploaded several months back to show some others online.
Session Site Template:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/PrairieShaman/4082-6885-9.jpg
Target Feedback:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2205/40826885ml2.jpg
Neat, eh?
When you do something like the above sessions on your own, knowing you have not cheated, it makes for quite an incredible feeling and proves to you that the ability is real.
Now let's all go have a good larf. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/2/2008 8:58:19 PM | | In regards to truly understanding all this we're still to evolve from single-celled organisms. Don't get me wrong. I'm a believer, if thats the appropriate word. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/3/2008 3:07:02 PM | Thank you for enlightening me but I am in no need of explaination of what the "scientific method" is. You are taking my comments too literally. Neither am I need of a debate, historical or otherwise but I do think that having the broadness of mind to see through the charlatans and to keep an open mind is important.
That is all. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/3/2008 6:56:43 PM | Most people who are highly psychic don't study it so they can read your mind better. They actually start to study so they can't read you. Well I am a believer because I am psychic. Have been all my life. From reading the posts there are a lot of things people don't understand about being psychic. I hope I will be able to clear somethings up for you.
First, if you want to investigate proof contact Atlantic University in Va. They will be able to provide you with all the proof that you need.
Another point is that no one who is psychic will entertain the discussion of having to prove their abilities to anyone. We are people, we don't do tricks or sit up or roll over.
Because so many people are cynical to us we have learned to keep our mouths shut. It is a shame really because we really could help people. But that is the way the world is and there is nothing much we can do about it.
The third thing is that yes, psychic can be passed down but it is not limited to certain genetic types. I has been proved that psychics have more frontal lobe activity than non psychics. Scientists are currently trying to determine whether psychic ability is where mankind is evolving too or are we loosing the abilities that were once our main survival instincts from when we were cave men.
The fourth thing. Remote Viewing was once use by the US Military in WWII. These people have to be highly trained. From what I have read they were also very successful. There are a number of psychics who are registered with different organizations. Getting registered isn't easy. You need a certain number of valid predictions from other parties. Then the other parties are investigated. Some of these people were approached by the government some 20 years ago. The psychics refused to work with the government. From what I understand the program has been abolished.
Fifth point. Getting paid. Psychic ability is just like any other ability. Please stop deifying it. Did God give us this ability? Yes God also gave me my brown eyes. God also blesses people with extraordinary abilities to play a piano, dance, or sing. But even though they have been blessed they still have to work and study very hard. So do psychics. 15 years of studying, reading, classes (and I mean college courses). Time, money, and hard work. If you want a person (psychic or not) to take their good time to help you, at least give them the respect of paying them for their services. Some psychics wont charge. That is up to them. But that doesn't mean that they are good. In fact the good ones are the professionals who have studied. And Yes they will charge you. Every one has the right to live. And they have the right to charge a reasonable rate so they can live. To think otherwise is just plain foolish.
The psychics who work with the police often do not charge the police. This is because of another reason. One that I wont go into now.
Most people who are highly psychic don't study it so they can read your mind better. They actually start to study so they can't read you. And they don't study to be a professional. How a psychic starts reading people is a whole other discussion that I wont go into. It is a thing that we don't think you will believe so we just don't talk about it to non-psychics.
I hope that this helps. Any other questions just ask I will try to help. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/3/2008 7:34:46 PM | | First time on this topic ... very much believe in the ability ... when you can go to someone on the same day you make an appointment & you know you have never met, talked or even seen them before ... & they can tell you about your past years, present including what you have in your house & about others in your family that you aren't even aware of & then to find out that last one is true of what they say ... oh yes, very much a believer ... have had too much happen in my life to NOT believe ... but like everything else, you still have to be careful who you go to ... HgSS | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/3/2008 8:34:07 PM | Msg 139
--Atlantic University is a non-profit tax-exempt 501(C)3 corporation.
--Holistic studies - psychology, philosophy, religious studies, health sciences, etc.
Not one hard core engineering , scientific based class in the entire curriculum.
And this is the place skeptics are suppossed to go to for proof....not likely !!!
Anyone could call themsleves a psychic
a.) there is no internationally recognized way of proving results
b.) no one knows how many times they've been wrong
c.) no log book of a percentage right or wrong is kept over their lifespan
d.) if you happen to be wrong, oh well...no consequence, no risk, no harm, no foul
e.) no expiration dates on the prediction | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/7/2008 6:23:09 AM | Lady4--
I loved your write-up. In response to you statement, I think that as man-kind becomes civilized we loose our ability to be psychic. I'm part native-American and my great-grandmother was a medicine woman. I feel this is where I got my abilities from. I have other friends who are of the same blood lines and they are "impressionist", too. Animals still have the ability but most people don't anymore. Of course, there are plenty of people out there who think we fell of the back of a circus train--until they need help, of course. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/7/2008 3:21:30 PM | | Thanks Enigma252 ... I think I would enjoy having a conversation with you sometime ... it would be interesting ... Hg | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/8/2008 2:33:13 AM |
Animals still have the ability but most people don't anymore.
Hmmmm
Do ALL animals?
Or even within the animal world does it vary in degree
I believe it does
The same as it does with humans
Humans tho live a life disconnected from all the information
They are mostly 'cerebral' which is a taught thing
And the more cerebral we become
And the more we isolate into a controlled information environment
The less we have the ability to 'see/know'
Language also plays its role
We consciously choose our 'input'
And drown out others
Still, I believe some humans have a greater propensity for connecting than others do.
cheers | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/8/2008 5:06:23 AM | I am a trainee medium. I sit for devleopment of mediumship weekly and have done for the last 5 years. I welcome the new regulations on the Fruadulant Mediums Act - this will sort the time wasters from the genuine. My tutor works alongside the police on missing persons cases etc and this is one area that I wish to progress into later on after completing my qualification.
We all have our own idea's about what exists and what doesn't. When you turn your tv over using your remote, you don't see the energy that transmits the frequency in changing the channel, but you know it exists, so is it fair to dismiss all energy forms just because you cannot see it....
There will always be the non-believers .. (well for now anyway) but luckily for people like me, scientists are now publishing many books that other energy forms are existing eg, aura's so maybe we have to wait for the scients to 'proove' that life is eternal.
You may want to check out Victor Zammit ..  | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:16:49 AM | 1angelwithhalo
I just tried emailing you directly but you have a block on. I read about The Frauduent Mediums Act in England recently on a BBC newletter. Could you please email me and explain more about this to me. We don't have that here in the US, but then we do not have as many Spiritualist praciticing here, either. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/8/2008 7:48:48 AM | | Hey, I'm not sure why I'm unable to receive your emails, I'll have a look at the settings. We have a member of the Spiritualists National Union and from another governing body to explain it all at the local spiritualist church next week but unfortunately I can't make it .. but afew members of my development group will be going so I'll be getting hand outs on what was discussed .. I'll also post info on my page on Facebook. The Arther Findlay College in Standsted, Essex (UK) will also be able to help further. :-) | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/8/2008 9:11:28 AM | | I definately believe in psychic ablitites. I'm a Christian man and I just don't believe that it is of God from examples I've seen in the Bible. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/9/2008 12:33:19 AM | Lady4, do you have any evidence / links of studies for your statements made below?
* I has been proved that psychics have more frontal lobe activity than non psychics.
* Scientists are currently trying to determine whether psychic ability is where mankind is evolving too or are we loosing the abilities that were once our main survival instincts from when we were cave men.
The fourth thing. Remote Viewing was once use by the US Military in WWII ... From what I have read they were also very successful.
* The psychics who work with the police often do not charge the police.
What has been said is however, that one shouldn't go claiming things are "proven" without reliable valid and preferably replicable evidence.
When you turn your tv over using your remote, you don't see the energy that transmits the frequency in changing the channel, but you know it exists, so is it fair to dismiss all energy forms just because you cannot see it....
How do I KNOW the energy that transmits from the remote works, even though I can't see it? I can make a prediction the TV will turn on & off when I use the power button, and test my theory. I can easily & reliabbly test my remote and get repeated consistent results. I can also use equipment that CAN see, read and measure the energy transmitted from the remote.
What is fair is to look at the evidence at hand. People continue to claim they're psychic accuracy is better than random chance - but every (yes - EVERY) time these people have been placed in a responsible double blind study, they weren't able to beat the control (random) group.
By the way - James Randi's million dollar challenge is nothing new. It was originally started in the 1920's by Scientific American. No one's been able to verify their claims, and collect either prize.
Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation#The_One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_American
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Houdini#Debunking_spiritualists | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/9/2008 4:56:26 AM | I heard that the subconscious is extremely adept at sorting through information and coming to logical conclusions. That when the abstract and logical parts of the brain are working in unison efficiently enough and the subconscious is capable of communicating with the conscious efficiently enough, a person can notice things we normally couldn't notice.
Like Salty posted earlier, I heard the develop of language and other types of thinking have actually weakened certain brain functions that were incredibly sharp at the time of our birth. Babies have been observed to have very acute pattern recognition abilities. | |
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| Psychic Ability...Are U a Believer?
Posted: 5/9/2008 6:39:20 PM | That's why teaching your child gestures or signs as well as spoken words,
they are more quickly able to understand and communicate with the world .
Parents aren't psychic with their kids, they just learned to pick on non-verbal cues | |
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