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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/4/2007 11:25:15 AM |
Some people think of me as a "player" because I'm not particularly interested in a long-term committed relationship. (Personally, my definition of a so-called player would be someone who LIES about that or their true feelings for someone to get dates/sex/whatever, but other people apparently disagree.)
Dawn1114, This is totally the correct analysis.
Sorry ladies, but
just becasue the guy doesn't feel the same way you do, DOESN'T make him a player.
A guy that you slept with shortly after meeting him, isn't a player (common... obviosly he didnt say he loved you, ya'll just met. But, at least you got to say "it just happened so you don't look like a slut or whatever)
A guy that hits on women all the time,.. ISN'T a player. He just goes for what he want's.
(And a woman who lets him hit on her all the time is the one doing the playing)
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There are few men that can match the skill of the female player....
..and if one does, by design, she becomes extreamly attracted to him (at least sexually), and she no longer plays him for love, but for power within the relationship.
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eazk
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Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 377 | |
| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/4/2007 4:47:13 PM | All4Fun4U~...excellent summation. The problem some people have is not grasping that some people will use good information for bad purposes...just as with anything of value, there is a segment of society that will convolute the message to their own selfish purposes. I definitely prefer the term Pick Up Artist to Player. The word Player implies lies and deception...not my style nor intent.
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/4/2007 6:42:56 PM |
The other is "The Game -- Penetrating the Secret Society of Pick-up Artists" by Neil Strauss. In it, he details his becoming a player by developing self confidence and learning how to relate to women
There's a lot of truth in that. Self-confidence is a major component.
Women can smell lack of confidence like a dog can smell fear.
You have to have the confidence to walk up to a total stranger and not initiate the contact. You have to be able to react well to a woman the initiates the contact.
"Hi, do you come here often?" doesn't cut it.
Confidence is being able to walk up to a woman, who is expecting you to try some lame line on her, and without a word, kiss her, and have her melt in your arms and knowing that it will work. 
Without that innate sense of knowing it will work, you will get slapped, insulted and possibly have a drink poured over your head.  | |
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/4/2007 6:58:26 PM |
Confidence is being able to walk up to a woman, who is expecting you to try some lame line on her, and without a word, kiss her, and have her melt in your arms and knowing that it will work.
Very good M. I have never been able to do that. However, I remember working up a woman for that first kiss. Yet after you've done that a few times and you become kind of c0ckvy and instead you go. No. I want her to be the one that just ravages me with a big one. So I can pull her away. And you suddenly get good at it. And it works about 90% of the time. So you are pulling back and they are just coming into you.
(Different technique, I guess, for us shy guys.) | |
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/4/2007 11:19:53 PM |
In China, that's what happens. And the women are not hot for bad boys. The chinese men do not put up with anywhere near the crap that we do with women. The consquences for crappy behavior are sharp and decisive there: she is on the streets.
I have lived in China for the past 3 years - in fact I'm in Shanghai right now (check out my IP address). For whatever reason, Chinese women in general prefer white guys over Chinese guys, and since there's so many of them and so few of us...I'm sure you get the picture - it's a pretty favorable situation for the few Western guys out here. From what I gather, the prevailing perception of Chinese men is that they are too domineering and too effeminiate at the same time. | |
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| Folks, get with the program and yourselves...
Posted: 12/7/2007 2:47:57 PM | This issue of so and so is a player (has multiple male or female romantic partners) has been talked to death, with reckless iliteracy. Folks who post these threads have no clue as to psychology. There are many love styles. It may very well be that you have no clue what your own love style is. If you are not a ludus lover don't get involved with ludus lovers. If you are not an eros lover, don't get involved with eros lovers. If you are a pragma lover (Ivana Trump can you hear me?), don't get involved with anyone who isn't interested solely in the economic bottom line. For the mania lovers who love to rant and throw fits, don't get involved with anyone.
For your reading pleasure, here are the love styles (oh, and please stop posting these boring "player" threads):
Modern conceptualisations of love and Lee's Love Styles
c.f. Lee, J.A. (1988). Love-styles. In R.J. Sternberg & M.L. Barnes (Eds.), The psychology of love (pp. 38-67). New Haven, CT: Yale University Press
according to Lees, contemporary research has delineated six different love styles
Eros: passionate love; Eros lover places much value on love (not obsession, though). knows what physical features s/he likes in a partner, gets involved on many levels upon meeting a suitable match, becomes sexually involved pretty quickly; Eros love leads to intense focus on partner and shares all of him/herself with partner; Eros lover doesn't push, but allows for relationship development; Eros lover has high self-confidence and self-esteem
Ludus: game-playing love; love and sex is seen only as fun, an activity, a diversion; Ludic lovers move from partner to partner and often have several at a time; but Ludic lovers do not wish to hurt anyone --- only to enjoy life, and with other people
Storge: friendship love, brotherly love; very strong affection; not very exciting or passionate; storge relationships are strong, secure, in which both partners are similar and share values, etc.; this type of love focuses on long-term commitment, as opposed to short-term pleasure; thus, it places less emphasis on passion, lust, and sex
Pragma: very practical love, often for evolutionary and economic purposes; pragma lovers evaluate potential mates very carefully; pragma lovers place more emphasis on suitable mate than on passion, pleasure; conditions are often involved
Mania: manic love; has many passionate love (Eros) qualities, but is much more turbulent and ambivalent; manic lover yearns for love, but is very jealous, doubtful, etc.; manic lovers attempt to force commitment from partners through control, but this leads to relationship dissolution and grief for the manic lover
Agape: altruistic, unconditional; return in kind not important; less emphasis on passion and sexuality; very rare | |
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| Folks, get with the program and yourselves...
Posted: 12/7/2007 2:51:12 PM | PS: Dawn1114 is correct by formally or intuitively describing the ludus lover. Those are folks who are supremely self-confident and revel in courtly love.
As for the comment about Chinese males as "are too domineering and too effeminiate at the same time," that's nothing more than recycling the Western stereotype of the inscrutable, sadistic Asian from the day of the Yellow Peril (See "Black Rain" with Michael Douglas). As a result, you do not see Asian males play a lead dramatic role in a Western Film. Case in point, Bruce Lee left the US altogether to be able to play a role of an Asian male through an Asian male lens instead of a fearful lackey was Asians were and to a great extent are protrayed in Western culture. | |
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| Folks, get with the program and yourselves...
Posted: 12/7/2007 3:16:45 PM | Hmmm From what you hve written, I'm a bit of all of those, as are most of the people I know...
On the other side of the coin...
It's Friday night again.... 
Two bars to go to... 
So wish me luck. Luck does play a very big part in the way the night unfolds it's tempting wings.... | |
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/8/2007 9:44:20 AM |
OH JOY, OH RAPTURE, another thread about "players".. good lord when will you ppl get tired of rippin on things you know nothing about. from the op the tone is set for all the subtopics in the thread that will surely by typed upon endlessly drolling on and on about how awful and emotionless these ppl are simply because they dont fall into the typical predictable catagories of marriage and family.
Some of the sub-topics have been interesting for a time, but, of course, you're right, PTrish thedish. M Church is not really a "player". It feeds his ego, I think, to present himself as such, and fits the mold Ptrishthedish described, but to me, that's just someone who has a paradigm different from those seeking a meaningful and lasting relationship. Some people, who are drawn to that type, want to live life as if it were a "romance novel", and, the women drawn to that type of man, know, at some level, that it's "pretend", a very nice feeling fantasy. Of course, if the fantasy ends before they tire of it, they call the other a "player".
The only "real players" are those who lie and deceive. The married people, as an example, who hide the fact, get involved in "relationships", while continuing to live their real lives in their marriages. Or the con artists, who embezzle money from wealthy paramours, by putting out a false front, funded by the proceeeds from their last victim. How many of those are there, though?
Otherwise, what some call players fall into two categories, IMO. Sincere people, who believe that they feel more than they do, start to get "involved", and then realize that they were more in love with "being in love" than with the person they're with. Or, relationships that go along, until something goes wrong, and one person wants "out" and the other doesn't. To me, those aren't "players" really. Just relationships that were based on the wrong things, or relationships gone wrong. | |
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/8/2007 1:48:37 PM |
The only "real players" are those who lie and deceive. The married people, as an example, who hide the fact, get involved in "relationships", while continuing to live their real lives in their marriages. Or the con artists, who embezzle money from wealthy paramours, by putting out a false front, funded by the proceeeds from their last victim. How many of those are there, though?
Melo, I totally disagree with you. You may be trying to give a title to a particular type of individual a player, but what currently culturally known as a player or PUA is not what you describe above. That doesn't mean that some may not be lier and deceivers, but the ones I've known are pretty straight forward about their intentions. Perhaps the one lie that they do commit is not admitting to being a player. But they will tell you that they do meet a lot of women. So, two totally different animals. | |
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/8/2007 1:52:05 PM |
PLAYERS DO NOT LIE. ITS THE PPL WHO DATE THEM WHO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS BASED ON NO TRUTH! players dont have to lie. actual players are very up front that they arent exclusive to anyone they date. and just for the record, it doesnt make them void of or incapable of forming lasting relationships. what they avoid are the typical bs pitfalls of traditional attachments.
Well said. But I am going to tell you why players in general do not lie. Not because they can not, some actually do. The problem is that if you begin to lie, you can't keep up what you told one person as opposed to another. And one thing a player does, he is nurturing probably about an easy 6 fires at the same time and at different stages of evolvement. | |
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eazk
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Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 388 | |
| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/8/2007 10:33:39 PM | Well said. But I am going to tell you why players in general do not lie. Not because they can not, some actually do. The problem is that if you begin to lie, you can't keep up what you told one person as opposed to another. And one thing a player does, he is nurturing probably about an easy 6 fires at the same time and at different stages of evolvement.
It's not so much about lies versus honesty as it is controlling the conversation. Basically we all know there are about 10-20 questions that are likely to come up in early conversations...
...what's your name?...where do you work?...what do you do?...where do you live? etcetera...
Answers that are all pretty boring and have little place to go. So instead, you develop a "routine" for each question...Most of my routines are intended to be pure farce, but they're intended to get her laughing, get her saying yes, and leave her question unanswered. For example...
Her - "So, what do you do for a living?" Me - "Argghhhh, here we go. The 'job interview' questions. Is that the best you can do?" or "Sheesh, looks like I'm going to have to be doing the asking of questions"
But, if she continues to push the job thing...
Her - No, really, what do you do for a living?
Me - (Somewhat exasperated) OK...Have you ever been to Taco Bell?
Her - Yeaaaahhhh.
Me - And you know how they roll or fold pretty much everything?
Her - Yeaaaahhhh.
Me - And then they put the nice little rolled up packages in the paper bag?
Her - Yeeesssss.
Me - (Triumphantly) Well, I'm the guy that opens the bags.
Point is, it's a complete joke, it's fun and she knows it. We'll get into the serious stuff when the time comes.
And sometimes the routine is just dead up honesty...such as "So, why did you get divorced?" to which I reply..."I screwed up a long time ago. Didn't give her what she needed at the time. Eventually I realizied that I grew up too late for her."
Never lie. Never say OR IMPLY the 'I love you' and 'forever' stuff unless you've really processed it through.
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/9/2007 2:04:02 AM |
Well said. But I am going to tell you why players in general do not lie. Not because they can not, some actually do. The problem is that if you begin to lie, you can't keep up what you told one person as opposed to another. And one thing a player does, he is nurturing probably about an easy 6 fires at the same time and at different stages of evolvement.
While what you say is true, the real truth is that we don't have to lie to get what we want. There are so many willing ladies out there, that statistically, walking up to total strangers and asking them if they want to come and spend the night, you still get enough takers to make it a feasible plan.
None of you get it. You all have your opinions of what players (or Pick Up Artists) are, or are not....
You are all trying to understand (or to hate)something that is beyond you.
You are all so fixated on your beliefs, that you cannot see the truths around you. It's sad really. After reading what you all have written, I now know with a certainty, that it's not my ability as a player as much as everyone else's naivette... In a funny sort of way, I feel less confident in my own abilities now, and more like I'm shooting fish in a barrel... Depressing really...
Players are not sociopaths, mutants or any other things that have been said... We're just good at what we do... | |
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/9/2007 2:55:00 AM |
While what you say is true, the real truth is that we don't have to lie to get what we want. There are so many willing ladies out there, that statistically, walking up to total strangers and asking them if they want to come and spend the night, you still get enough takers to make it a feasible plan.
M church, if you are as you say, I like the point that eazk made earlier. You are a "pick up artist", and there's nothing wrong with that. Many women are responsive to that, and they are willing participants in that process, even if they would deny it to themselves and others. In an earlier era, men like that would be called "womanizer" as someone else pointed out earlier in this thread. To some extent, I spent most of my 20s pursuing those sort of "quick and easy" situations of "being in love for the evening", and didn't think of it as being a "player" at the time.
Player is one of those terms that is understood differently by different people. The only time I think someone is a "player", is when it is based on deceit and misrepresentation. The married person, who presents himself/herself as "single", as one example, or the person who presents himself/herself as seeking a long term relationship, when he/she is only interested in the thrill of the "chase" or in being "chased".
To me, anyone who is open and honest about what he/she is seeking, and truthfully presents himself/herself to someone new, isn't a "player" in a pejorative sense. | |
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/9/2007 2:55:26 AM | | This subject always amazess me, players are players both male & female. They have no heart & have no empathy, they are only into there own needs. Players feel no pain & genuine people get hurt. Without a doubt if I became a player I would get all the sex i want I know coz of all the female responses & in everyday life, but I will never scoop so low & become a player. Unfortunately I'm on the lower end of the genuine scale here, so most people on here don't give a crap both male & female. | |
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/9/2007 7:48:15 AM |
a player stops being a player and becomes a commonplace low life scum lookin to stroke their own ego is when lying comes into the equasion. these are not varying degrees of a character, they are totally different things.
Well said. Also Mello, I think what you are calling a Player and a Womanizer my be correct terminology a long time ago, or in psychology books, or in academia, but the current language as used in perhaps over 20 different books and the people who are PUAs is the other way around. I want to clarify this with you, because I know you are very stubborn and will not switch labels, but also because once the labels are switch you can realize we are talking the same thing.
Eazk, That whole dialogue thing was funny. I have one also in what I do for living that could drag out for half an hour and it was totally fun.
After the response "what do you think this is, a job interview" type of comment and I conceded to tell them, I would say "I shoot people." Many times they would automatically respond, "so you're a cop." "Not really, but I do interrogate them before I shoot them." That of course would lead to a ton of other little talk. The point is that if I had spent that half an hour telling her the technical aspect of my work, she would be going in her head "I wish he would shut up." Instead, they were laughing, asking weird questions, that sometimes got sexual on their own accord, and both had fun. | |
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eazk
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Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 393 | |
| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/9/2007 8:29:04 AM | That's funny, OutMind...I can pretty much visualize that conversation and reactions.
I think it gets down to this...the first thing a 'true' Player needs to do is become a PUA. That gives him the ability to identify, meet and develop a fairly strong connection very quickly. Why? Because PUA's understand the art of initial connections...they know how to develop attraction, how to communicate, how to respond and interact with a woman.
And before the PUA bashing begins, girls and guys go out to places for pretty much the same reason...whether it's a night/country/rotary club, you have people with similar interests. If I meet a woman at the country club who is so mesmerized by golf that she's not interested in meeting men, she transmits that info pretty quickly and we can move on.
The difference between PUA's and Players, IMHO, is that PUA's actually see this knowledge and skill set as a maturation process all boys should have learned in high school...that being, the ability to learn to interact with girls, to communicate effectively on a mutual level, to respect women, and that it's a good to become emotionally involved.
...Whereas Players see this PUA ability as a means to an end...getting laid...and do not intend to integrate respect or deep communications or emotion into their libido focused relationship.
Players have more of a sense of emotional detachment but they're good at faking it (hence the term Player, IMO) but they'll only stay with it for a short time. Typically by the third date they're pretty much in deal/no deal mode...hence "The Three Date" rule we hear about, especially from 'Jerks' (read: wanna be players cause they wanna get laid). And for Players, there are some nifty ways to go from first to second to third dates very, very quickly...even doing all three in the first night of meeting.
PUAs (again, IMO) may have more emotional baggage when a relationship ends, but unlike the rest of adult male society they are better equipped to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and get back in the saddle again. The goal of the PUA is to meet and give everybody a chance to have fun and see where things go from there.
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/9/2007 9:15:22 AM |
The difference between PUA's and Players, IMHO, is that PUA's actually see this knowledge and skill set as a maturation process all boys should have learned in high school...that being, the ability to learn to interact with girls, to communicate effectively on a mutual level, to respect women, and that it's a good to become emotionally involved.
PUAs (again, IMO) may have more emotional baggage when a relationship ends, but unlike the rest of adult male society they are better equipped to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and get back in the saddle again. The goal of the PUA is to meet and give everybody a chance to have fun and see where things go from there.
Eazk, I can relate to your definition of a PUA, but my "impression" of the book, from hearing about it, is that it is based on insincerity, and essentially meets what you just defined as "player". The ability to sincerely connect to women, liking women, and being open to a relationship are not what I think of, when one says PUA. However, as OUTMIND suggests, maybe my definitions are flawed.
In any case, most of my responses on this thread have been in viewing players as the liars, deceivers, and insincere. | |
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eazk
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Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 395 | |
| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/9/2007 9:40:11 AM | I understand, Melo~...I just think that most people tend to confuse the two...and reality is that the difference to many is imperceptible, it's only the actions that follow the PU that differentiates the two. But as another poster quoted...
"Dating is a game. Men can say they don't want it to be, women can deny it. That doesn't change anything. It's a game. To date, one has to play; it's not a choice. If people don't play, they don't date. The only choice is who to play with and a hope that he or she wants to play as well. Follow the advice I learned the hard way, pay attention, and enjoy each other. Life isn't too short for games... it's too short for losing games."
Kinda covers it. So now, what is left is discerning nasty game players from nice ones.
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/9/2007 2:33:17 PM | In my middle 20's I had the "privilage" of meeting a "player"
he was of an educated profession.
He was interested in me, but not that I really understood or can really identify when a guy is really into me.
I took him as a person, not understanding intent.
It never went anywhere probably because I am so naive with matters of the heart.
but a few years down the road, I ran into him again. It was then, with my questions, he admitted that he was a player....he had a wife and children that he would never leave.
I did run into a few other times down the road, but what I noticed about him was that he was searching for something, in his playing..."something more" perhaps in his own being.
My perception of players are people who look for something that they can obtain from you. Whether it be a fulfillment of emotional needs or basic care needs. or materialistic needs. They dont offer anything back. Once they are found out and know that they cant obtain a use from you they disappear, chances are they can never look at you in the eye.
and to this day, I am unable to distinguish the player from an honest soul. probably because I havent met an honest soul yet.
I have met a players that will strike like a rattlesnake, because that is the only way that they could win their vision of a conquest. I have met type of player displaying and showing the right moves and communications...Players hurt people as they take through deception. I have met a player looking to have his basic needs filled and once things changed and life unfolds and his basic needs where left for his independant action he found another to fill it. I am not talking about sex, as sex is a small part of the formula, but players are people who are not able to be responsible or accountable to themselves or their inner circle or to others that interact in their life. They evade themselves in their own growth and development and become stunted.
The hard thing for me, is the betrayal of the belief I have for the people that have played me. This is difficult, because I want to think well of others and the benefit of the doubt, as in thinking that we are all naive when it comes to dating.
Players are invasive to the heart, because they know that is the weakness of the other, in order for them to obtain, they know how to get there, but they dont have respect for themselves or others, as long as they get what they want at the time of the strike....
it is a strategy...
Another key is when they say...."I have played this out long enough"
they discard, high consumerism.
When guys are getting bored, it is another flag, because boredom is an emotion and boredom comes from evading one own development,,, it is relentlessly exhausting if you have to keep entertaining the other. Stimulation is great, but what ever happened to enjoying the company, or finding adventure in yourself.
and I am still naive with this dating, thing, I prefer much to be on a friendship without the pressure of hurry up, because I want to take care of myself and respect for others.
so I guess I am learning the rites of a player. but still you have to take the time to say hello to find out, a little risky in the event you get swooned. I dont want to be calloused or analytical, but screening is the only way, if you ask to many questions, and the other doesnt want to answer or evades... you have a player.
IMHO of course,
Red | |
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/10/2007 7:08:49 PM | When men do certain things were all players, but when women do they same thing their being choosey. The plain truth is EVERYONE is guilty of being a player at one time or another.
Anytime you have "changed your mind", in someone else's eyes you are playing them and if you think it's anything else, it's time you take a long hard look at yourself. One thing I have definitely found to be true, be it a man or women is, while your busy playing someone, someone is busy playing you............ | |
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/10/2007 8:19:35 PM | If nothing else, this thread has brought to light that there are a myriad of definitions of "player". By many definitions, one is a player, if he/she is dating and not at a point that he/she is looking for anything serious or committed. It doesn't matter if he/she is very upfront about it.
Some others have defined players as being those who are sociopaths, or otherwise suffering from severe emotional or mental disorders.
And, everything else in between.
So, I no longer have the slightest idea if I've ever been one, could be one, or would recognize one, if I feel over her.
So, as the last post I intend to make to this thread, I'll simply say that the people I regard as "dangerous" in the "dating world" are the liars and deceivers, along with those who don't know themselves well enough to be able to predict their ability to follow through on things they say that they'll do. | |
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| Players! What is it like to play? C'mon be honest!
Posted: 12/10/2007 8:47:52 PM |
So, as the last post I intend to make to this thread, I'll simply say that the people I regard as "dangerous" in the "dating world" are the liars and deceivers, along with those who don't know themselves well enough to be able to predict their ability to follow through on things they say that they'll do.
I hear you dude. Good post. | |
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