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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 11:14:15 AM | | i dont think of them as trash, i think of them as illegal, i wasnt jumping down your throat i was just simply saying that there is a differnce between theory and the way things really are. i understand they are trying to survive also, but thats up to there country not ours! | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 11:39:36 AM | Uh, no, I have no problems with legal aliens, I have dated them and every thing 
I am open and willing to have any and all people, races, colors, creeds etc., come to America just like my forefathers did, legal and proper. And learn English like the rest of us b@st@rds did... My brother has a nice Chinese bride (not mail order thank you, from his business there and here) and he has been trying for 2 years of jumping through hoops to get her here and legal, but it seems it would be quicker if she were to fly to Mexico and cross the border into Texas.
Read the original post, my /rant was very light in comparison. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 12:45:05 PM | Nobody is really PRO-illegal immigrants. We all would prefer that they enter the country legally. But they're here and how we deal with them is a matter of dispute.
And as far as english goes, this country has no official language so stop ****ing until it does. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 1:11:15 PM | Gosh... I do wonder... what will happen once immigrant aliens are not around...
nobody will be able to cut my grass for 10 bucks anymore...
How about the kid down the street? Really I knew a guy who started cutting grass back when we were in high school by the time we graduated he had his own truck, and trailer full of yard tools with a riding mower.
Guess in hind site he was lucky some illegal didn’t come along and undercut him out of business.
I wont be able to get my already expensive fruits and vegetables on the table... cause Americans themselves are too good for that type of job...
I’ve got some bad news for you doll, that banana you’re eating in the middle of December didn’t come from the states anyway.
(But let’s not even get into just how much of our food comes from outside the states that’s a whole other thread!)
So you would rather pay some illegal a poverty wage so you can have a cheap strawberry then pay a living wage to a legal worker?
You know what lets forget the wage… lets just pay them in food… and then instead of them living 20 to a house on the poor side of town we could just let them live in little shacks at the back of the farm…
Oh wait then they would be slaves… but if we give them a poverty wage and let them rent a place in the crappy part of town then its all ok, hey at least the strawberries are cheap…
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Ok let’s imagine this, we wave a magic wand (aka amnesty) and all the illegal farm workers are legal… all of them. What do you think is going to happen? Well gee lets see I think Pablo is going to look around and suddenly realize hey I have rights now and I’m getting screwed! Pablo is going to want more money, he’s going to want safer working conditions, and he’s even going to want some vacation time! He may even think about starting a union to get some of these things! You know what’s going to happen when Pablo starts getting uppity and asking for all those things? He’s going to get fired and replaced by a new illegal you know the one that’s just crossed the border hoping to wait it out till the next amnesty.
And so it starts all over again. Pablo goes off and gets a job at someplace where a real legal citizen goes for a living wage he’s replaced by a new illegal and we are right back in the same mess we were in before. Only with 25 or 30 million new citizens living at the bottom of the ladder… and that’s what we really need in this country more people at the bottom
Maybe instead we can skip all that and just pay a living wage to someone that is already a citizen living at the bottom rung of the ladder, the welfare lists are full of them, or hey even better get ride of the crappy job all together and find a better way to pick strawberries!
There is a good reason we use machines to harvest cotton these days you know, if the labor cost gets so high that people start not buying strawberries they will find a better way to pick those too. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 1:34:10 PM |
So you would rather pay some illegal a poverty wage so you can have a cheap strawberry then pay a living wage to a legal worker?
Yes, that's the whole issue in a nut shell. However, the greedy just can't seem to get the picture that getting something dirt cheap will lead themselves in to poverty.
In the USA if your not making $75,000 US then you are already living below poverty. It may not be on the same level as someone living in Kenya but none the less it is poverty. One must look at the society as a whole and not compare it to a society a world away... | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 1:42:38 PM |
But they're here and how we deal with them is a matter of dispute.
I think Arizona had the right idea. Don't do anything about the Illegal Aliens; I see them as criminals myself. We do still call people who break our laws criminals, don't we?
Anyway, Arizona passed a law that if someone employs someone who isn't here legally, they lose their business license for a few days, the first time. If the same person is caught, a second time, employing someone who isn't here legally, they lose their business license for good.
This law doesn't say a thing about Illegal Immigrants; it just addresses businesses in the state of Arizona.
Funny thing, jobs for Illegal Immigrants in Arizona are drying up, and the Illegal Immigrants are leaving Arizona on their own. What a novel idea; make it so the Illegal Immigrants go back home on their own. It doesn't cost the US taxpayers a dime.
And as far as english goes, this country has no official language so stop ****ing until it does.
While the US doesn't have an Official Language, English, such as it is, has been spoken here, as the de facto language of the country, since before the revolutionary war. Thus, with English having been spoken here for over 200 years, I believe it would be reasonable to say that based upon the custom and practice of citizens of the US communicating with one another by using the English language, that English is the de facto Official language of the US.
Don't like? Feel free to leave, the borders are open; at least at the moment the southern border is. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 1:44:00 PM |
And as far as english goes, this country has no official language so stop ****ing until it does.
No English has NEVER been an official language because of the pu$$ification of the US. Too many pu$$ies who don't want to offend anybody who may not speak English, so we don't have an official language like other countries who are not pu$$ified.
Declaring English the official language means that official government business at all levels must be conducted solely in English. This includes all public documents, records, legislation and regulations, as well as hearings, official ceremonies and public meetings.
Declaring English the official language is essential and beneficial for the U.S. government and its citizens. Official English unites Americans, who speak more than 322 languages (2000, U.S. Census), by providing a common means of communication; it encourages immigrants to learn English in order to use government services and participate in the democratic process; and it defines a much-needed common sense language policy.
It really grinds my gears that I have to press 1 to hear this in English, because we don't want to offend or force someone to learn English. My brothers GF speaks and writes English very well. People from China, Japan, Germany, France and most of the rest of the world learn English as a second language in their schools.
Official English benefits every resident of this wonderful melting pot called America. The melting pot works-because we have a common language.
English is the key to opportunity in this country. It empowers immigrants and makes us truly united as a people. Common sense says that the government should teach people English rather than provide services in multiple languages. What would happen if our government had to provide services in all 322 languages spoken in the U.S.? Without a common language, how long would we remain the "United" States?
It's just common sense. I visited my other brother's kid's school with him and I saw 20 TWENTY different languages on the sign stating where the office was. English, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Sanscrit, French, Farsai etc etc... if we made a national language like the rest of the worlds countries, we would have ONE sign. If you are going to School, you should be speaking English. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 1:48:01 PM |
In the USA if your not making $75,000 US then you are already living below poverty. It may not be on the same level as someone living in Kenya but none the less it is poverty. One must look at the society as a whole and not compare it to a society a world away...
I just filed my taxes, and I made less than $50,000 gross last year. I live in an 1800 square foot home, on 41 wooded acres, and have a rental property, a 960 square foot home on 7 1/2 wooded acres, that is paid for.
But, since I make less than $75,000 a year I'm supposedly living in poverty?
Wow, and here I thought I was doing pretty good. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 2:01:29 PM |
I just filed my taxes, and I made less than $50,000 gross last year. I live in an 1800 square foot home, on 41 wooded acres, and have a rental property, a 960 square foot home on 7 1/2 wooded acres, that is paid for.
But, since I make less than $75,000 a year I'm supposedly living in poverty?
Wow, and here I thought I was doing pretty good.
Yep, sorry to say it's true!
If you was getting reward as you should then you'd have a :
2800 square foot home on 82 wooded acres, plus a
1920 square foot home rental property on 15 wooded acres all paid for. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 2:02:30 PM | In the USA if your not making $75,000 US then you are already living below poverty. It may not be on the same level as someone living in Kenya but none the less it is poverty. One must look at the society as a whole and not compare it to a society a world away...
The poverty threshold is adjusted each year. In 2006, in the United States of America, the poverty threshold for a single person under 65 was US$10,488; the threshold for a family group of four, including two children, was US$20,444.
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I love wikipedia.  | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 2:10:06 PM | The poverty threshold is adjusted each year. In 2006, in the United States of America, the poverty threshold
In 1999, the average employed immigrant who spoke English very well earned $40,741, more than double the $16,345 earned by immigrants who did not speak English at all. The increasing scale of English proficiency and earnings was recorded at every education level from less than high school through master's degree and beyond. (Source: Educational Testing Services, A Human Capital Concern: The Literary Proficiency of U.S. Immigrants, March 2004)
English proficiency rates among immigrants vary widely by ancestry. More than 80 percent of the immigrants from several ancestry groups speak English "very well," including Egyptians (90.4 percent), Lebanese (89.5), Pakistanis (87.7), Romanians (86.5), Iranians (86.1), Thais (83.0) and Argentineans (81.6). Other ancestry groups lag far behind the overall average of 71.4 percent English proficient, including Cambodians (65.7), Vietnamese (64.4), Hondurans (53.5), Guatemalans (52.8) and Mexicans (49.9). (Source: Census 2000)
The ability to understand English was so crucial to immigrant success that foreign-born workers with moderate-to-high levels English proficiency had higher earnings than native-born workers with the same degree of English proficiency. More important, data from the National Adult Literacy Survey found that immigrants with a low degree of English proficiency earned one-half of what those with a medium degree of proficiency earned and less than one-third of highly English proficient immigrants. (Source: Educational Testing Services, A Human Capital Concern: The Literary Proficiency of U.S. Immigrants, March 2004)
Immigrants who speak English "not well" or "not at all" have median weekly earnings approximately 57 percent of those of U.S. born workers. The weekly earnings of immigrants who speak another language at home, but speak English "very well" or "well" are nearly 90 percent of those of U.S. born workers. Immigrants who speak English at home are best off, with median weekly earnings 20 percent higher than U.S. born workers. (Source: U.S. Department of Labor, How Do Immigrants Fare in the U.S. Labor Market?, Monthly Labor Review, December 1992)
The U.S. Department of Education found that those with limited English proficiency are less likely to be employed, less likely to be employed continuously, tend to work in the least desirable sectors and earn less than those who speak English. Annual earnings by non-English proficient adults were approximately half of the total population surveyed. ? (Source: U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics; English Literacy and Language Minorities in the United States, August 2001)
I love wikipedia. Me too. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 2:17:35 PM |
The poverty threshold is adjusted each year. In 2006, in the United States of America, the poverty threshold for a single person under 65 was US$10,488; the threshold for a family group of four, including two children, was US$20,444.
That's exactly what they want you to believe. Who do think writes those things or determines what the diffention of poverty means? They don't calaculate into the equation that most people in the States couldn't hold down a job without owning an automobile, phone, a place to live, etc...
If workers income over the last two decades has risen by only 13% while CEO's and uper managment income has risen to over 140% in the last two decades. The widening gap clearly shows the same signs of the robber baron times a hundred years earlier. The wealthy just get wealthier at the expense of making other people poor. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 2:31:13 PM |
The poverty threshold is adjusted each year. In 2006, in the United States of America, the poverty threshold for a single person under 65 was US$10,488; the threshold for a family group of four, including two children, was US$20,444.
That's exactly what they want you to believe. Who do think writes those things or determines what the diffention of poverty means? They don't calaculate into the equation that most people in the States couldn't hold down a job without owning an automobile, phone, a place to live, etc...
If workers income over the last two decades has risen by only 13% while CEO's and uper managment income has risen to over 140% in the last two decades. The widening gap clearly shows the same signs of the robber baron times a hundred years earlier. The wealthy just get wealthier at the expense of making other people poor.
----------------------- From Wiki---------------------
When measured, poverty may be absolute or relative poverty. Absolute poverty refers to a set standard which is consistent over time and between countries. An example of an absolute measurement would be the percentage of the population eating less food than is required to sustain the human body (approximately 2000-2500 kilocalories per day).
Relative poverty, in contrast, views poverty as socially defined and dependent on social context. One relative measurement would be to compare the total wealth of the poorest one-third of the population with the total wealth of richest 1% of the population. In this case, the number of people counted as poor could increase while their income rise. There are several different income inequality metrics, one example is the Gini coefficient.
The main poverty line used in the OECD and the European Union is a relative poverty measure based on "economic distance", a level of income set at 50% of the median household income.
The United States, in contrast, uses an absolute poverty measure. The US poverty line was created in 1963-64 and was based on the dollar costs of the U.S. Department of Agriculture's "economy food plan" multiplied by a factor of three. The multiplier was based on research showing that food costs then accounted for about one third of the total money income. This one-time calculation has since been annually updated for inflation.[1]
The US line has been critiqued as being too high, that it takes into account something other than true poverty. For example, the Heritage Foundation objects to the fact that, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, 46% of those defined as being in poverty in the U.S. own their own home (with the average poor person's home having three bedrooms, with one and a half baths, and a garage).[2]
Both absolute and relative poverty measures are usually based on a person's yearly income and frequently take no account of total wealth. Some people argue that this ignores a key component of economic well-being.
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I think we are getting a bit off subject now, so I won’t post anything more on the different definitions of poverty. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 2:47:53 PM |
I think we are getting a bit off subject now, so I won’t post anything more on the different definitions of poverty.
I agree we are off topic and to the fact that we agree to disagree on the definition of poverty. I believe one must account for more than food as a measure of poverty. If a person can't afford to go to work, raise a family and live a respectable exsistance how are they not in poverty?
I will say no more as this is not the thread for it. My apologies and utmost respect to the OP. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 5:19:58 PM |
Ok let’s imagine this, we wave a magic wand (aka amnesty) and all the illegal farm workers are legal… all of them. What do you think is going to happen? Well gee lets see I think Pablo is going to look around and suddenly realize hey I have rights now and I’m getting screwed! Pablo is going to want more money, he’s going to want safer working conditions, and he’s even going to want some vacation time! He may even think about starting a union to get some of these things! You know what’s going to happen when Pablo starts getting uppity and asking for all those things? He’s going to get fired and replaced by a new illegal you know the one that’s just crossed the border hoping to wait it out till the next amnesty.
I grew up in southern California, and remember well, when Cesar Chavez formed the Migrant Farm Workers' Union, and all of the havoc he, and his newly formed Union, caused for some time in southern California. To the best of my knowledge, if you're not Mexican, you can't get a job working on a farm, in a nursery, manure plant, or a dairy, in southern California, to this day.
When I was a teenager, I was working as a dishwasher in a local restaurant, and got fired, because an Illegal Mexican would do the job cheaper, and "he had to feed his family." Gee, I guess I was just there because I didn't have anything better to do, like maybe dating.
And so it starts all over again. Pablo goes off and gets a job at someplace where a real legal citizen goes for a living wage he’s replaced by a new illegal and we are right back in the same mess we were in before. Only with 25 or 30 million new citizens living at the bottom of the ladder… and that’s what we really need in this country more people at the bottom
Anybody remember the "one time" Amnesty program in the 1980's, for the then 2-3 million Illegal Immigrants in the US? I do, and this "new" Amnesty Program sounds a whole lot like the last one, only a lot larger.
How about all the states pass laws like the ones in Arizona, and Oklahoma? Then, maybe, just maybe, all of those jobs that Americans won't take, will be filled by Americans. It's not that Americans won't fill the jobs that Illegal Immigrants do. Americans won't do those jobs for the same wage that Illegal Immigrants will.
Illegal Immigrants, Mexicans in particular, come over here, stay three to five years, have their babies on our tax dollars, work whatever job they can get, claim twenty (20) dependents on their income tax withholding, send nearly all of what they make back to Mexico; then, when the tax man comes looking for them, they flee back across the border. By that time, their grand fine home in Mexico is already built, they have plenty of money in the bank, and they can live good for a few years. When they run short of cash, they just hop back across the border, and do the same thing all over again.
In the mean time, Illegal Immigrants come here, and cause all kinds of problems. One got drunk, was involved in some kind of accident. While running from the Police, he drove through my Parents' yard, causing all kinds of damage. All damage that he'll never pay for, because he's back in Mexico.
Growing up in southern California, I got to see, first hand, how Illegal Immigrants behave in American society. They come over here, draw welfare, breed like rabbits, and drink beer like there's no tomorrow. When they run out of beer money, they turn their women loose on the streets to hustle money for them, so they can get more beer.
Yeah, they're real pillars of the community, that are trying to assimilate themselves into American society and culture. If you're not latin, they don't want anything to do with you, and scorn those who do. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/10/2008 9:16:03 PM | Well that is like saying the guy that broke into your house and is stealing all your stuff has a right to live in your house with you, because he is human... geeze people, get a grip, these people broke the law when then broke into our country ILLEAGLY and are using up the charities set up for our people not Mexicos poor, they are draining our medical resources dry and bancrupting our governments, then they demand rights, social security payments when they never paid in, heck they send the money they make here home to mexico....
so tell me again, bethany 2911???? What is your point? | |
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dmotz
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 44 | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/11/2008 8:35:40 AM |
You will end up paying more for enforcement and for goods and services than you save on benefits. Your state will be at a disadvantage economically compared to states that do welcome illegal immigrants. But if it makes you feel better to support politicians on reactionary and racists policies, go for it. Above all else, we must keep Us safe from Them, and never give a dime or anything else to someone in need, lest we be taken advantage of.
I don't think you realize how much money border states pay in benifits for illegals. I disagree that it would cost more and I think it would save lots of tax dollars. | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/11/2008 8:50:15 AM | Pack um up and ship them out! Build a wall..secure it..Electrify the damn thing...If someone wants to come here..DO IT LEGALLY.
EXACTLY! 
Never one to condone violence but if we had a fence up that acted like a bug zapper. Once a few of those illegals exploded trying to climb over that would certainly discourage any more from trying to climb in to the USA and rape it's wealth away from the American citizens who've earned.
But I really don't believe that is the solution! There will always be illegals willing to find new ways into the country. So the best answer as some have suggested is to make it illegal to employee them by Businesses and Agriculture and enforce this policy to the fullest extent. When they can't find work and can't live off the hand of governmental welfare they will no longer come. To close the last loophole would be to pass legislation that makes it the law of the land that no child born that at least one parent isn't a legal US citizen, will be observed as a US citizen...
We can't provide a good nation for those seeking legal citizenship in if we let illegal's eat the foundation like termites... | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/11/2008 10:56:50 AM |
To close the last loophole would be to pass legislation that makes it the law of the land that no child born that at least one parent isn't a legal US citizen, will be observed as a US citizen...
How very true, my friend has worked hard to gain her citizenship, she is swiss by birth, and when she was in for the paperwork/interview, she told me there was this Mexican family who had a little kid who said the only reason they were there was because of me, right mommy? My friend worked hard and did every thing legally and here is a family who only gets in because they jumped the border, procreated and now they are automatically US citizens riding on the coattails of their larvae.
It's like saying if you are flying over the US in a plane and have a baby, it's automatically a US Citizen. I wonder if that is really the issue when they say they don't want you flying if you are 9 months pregnant ?
I think the thing that got me more than that was the kid actually spoke English! Amazing | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/11/2008 12:20:33 PM | Wow! What a topic!
History certainly repeats itself sometimes....some of these sentiments must have been the same the Aborignal Peoples felt when thier lands were being invaded by those Illegal Aliens about 500 years ago.
Amazing.... | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/11/2008 12:39:04 PM |
Wow! What a topic!
History certainly repeats itself sometimes....some of these sentiments must have been the same the Aborignal Peoples felt when thier lands were being invaded by those Illegal Aliens about 500 years ago.
Amazing....
I'm sure they did and still do...
The only difference is they lacked the ability to overcome the invaders. Naturally might doesn't equate to right but it's a reality that must be accepted as fact...
I wonder how the Americans would have responed had 6 million mexican civilians had massed at one time at the mexican border and promptly crossed the boarder? That's in effect what happend and it just didn't occur one morning but over an extended period of time of many decades. If this had been a long term plan of the Mexican government to inflitrate the United States to reclaim it's former terroitories of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and Califorina. I'd have to say prue "genius" of a plan! Think about it, to capture your former land without firing a shot and making the invaded country look like the bad guy to it's own population and the rest of the world -
Priceless! | |
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| OKLAHOMA SAYS GET OUT TO ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
Posted: 3/11/2008 12:57:19 PM | Perhaps you'd prefer all non-aboriginals to get out of the country and give everything back to the aboriginals? And, what if the aboriginals stole the land from others who were here before them thousands of years ago? There is evidence to suggest that there may have been peoples already in north america before what we called the Indians(aka native americans) immigrated here.
Check these links below for more info on the subject
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/12/03/oldest.skull/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topper_%28archaeological_site%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlapacoya_%28Mesoamerican_site%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cactus_Hill
http://www.mexicanfootprints.co.uk/
http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/spiritman2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man | |
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