| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/20/2007 11:33:28 PM | "I see your basing your opinion on work experience. While i realize this is the case for some people with addictions and problems it certainly isnt the case for the many parents who have their life in order."
See, you missed the point there, Puck. Most of my work experience is actually in private law practice handling divorces and child support issues. Which is fairly clearly stated above. Normal, average, everyday parents who just decide they want to get divorced. There was nearly as much drama in their divorces, paternity suits and child support actions/custody fights as I see in dependency court these days. Mind you, totally created, manufactured "Jerry Springer" drama rather than the drugs, domestic violence, physical and sexual child abuse that I deal with now, but drama all the same. Maybe one in ten, MAYBE one in ten of those normal, average, everyday mature adults put the children's best interest first. I never said or even implied that people should stay in a relationship that isn't working.
I'd be curious to know if you can back up what you are claiming with facts, reports, statistics, etc., from professionals rather than simply from personal experience.
" "many children just can't hand the instability of the frequent transitions"
Again, your incorrect and generalizing here. "
Really? Take a look at some of the links I've posted. The data is pretty extensive or I would just copy/paste and admittedly these are just articles I've gathered from places I'm familiar with on a quick google search. I would, however, be happy to give you a book list if you'd like. Besides, if I'm generalizing, I'm doing it from a background of experience with a few *HUNDRED* couples in normal divorces and a few *HUNDRED* parents with kids in the dependency system. How many are you experienced with?
""But its probably only feasible in 10% of parents and children out there".
Source please? Can you back that comment up with fact. i certainly dont believe that.
This is your opinion that you have stated. I dont know the stat on this but i do know times are a changing and many relationships that end are going to joint custody. This number is increasing not decreasing."
Again, my experience, not actually just my 'opinion.' These days the courts don't generally give two hoots about which parent slept with what other person outside the marriage or things of that nature when awarding custody and dividing the marital assets. Most states have 'no fault' divorce laws these days, sometimes also called 'irreconcilable differences'. Why then, would (in my experience) probably nine out of ten divorces I have worked on over the years spend lots of time and energy in their pleadings pointing out who did what to whom and with whom? Because they are thinking of themselves and their hurt / angry feelings, completely incapable of being mature at that time and putting their kids first. Why do courts waste people's time and money by making them attend 'Children of Divorce' seminars? Because the majority of parents during a divorce are not emotionally mature enough to not play games with their children's loyalties and emotions. You have the experience of your own divorce and probably just a handful of others. I have the experience of hundreds, and the 'locker room' stories of a countless others from other attorneys and their staff.
" "My point is that parents truly need to put the best interests of their children first before what they want for themselves."
Uh huh, that is exactly what i am doing and what some of my fellow brothers and sisters on this forum are doing. Your ASSuming that we are not putting our kids first, and that is hogwash. Ask my children, who are now 6 and 11, if they want to live with both mom and dad and they will say YES. "
And did I not say that it was great that it works for you and that I hope it continues to work for you?? I'd be curious... well, nosy really, to know if you spoke to any child psychologists or counselors before starting this arrangement though. Because at six and eleven kids don't know what the best thing for them is. Kids whose parents have sold them into prostitution for drugs, beaten them, tortured them, starved and neglected them, and even completely abandoned them, want their biological parents because that's just what kids do. Hell, even my own daughter would leave with her fugitive drug addicted birth mother or abusive birth father in a minute if they happened to find her.
"But any presumption made that mom should have the kids first is baloney and not fair to the children involved. Both parents should have equal opportunity to raise their kids. Many children want BOTH dad and mom involved. The courts are now reflecting this. (of course as i have always said assuming the parents are able and capable) "
And I never said otherwise. In fact, I believe I clearly stated that I knew just as many dads with sole physical custody as I do moms, both from private practice experience and child welfare system experience. I certainly agree that children usually want both parents involved, even when it is at the expense of their own safety and well being. In a perfect world, all parents would be capable of the level of emotional maturity it takes to do the shared parenting you have successfully achieved. In my *experience* that's not the case.
Sarah
I think this is plenty of information. A lot of the shared parenting articles support your position so long as the parents can get along without conflict and most can't, in my experience.
http://www.attach.org/whatisattachment.htm
http://www.radzebra.org/
http://www.jhu.edu/~gazette/2007/02apr07/02single.html
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/apr/07040202.html
http://www.agls.uidaho.edu/ccc/CCC%20Families/Research/childcustody.htm
http://www.divorcehq.com/articles/jointcustody.html
http://www.thelizlibrary.org/~liz/liz/those-jointcustody-studies.html
http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/joint-custody-does-not-work.html
http://www.stopfamilyviolence.org/ocean/host.php?folder=64&T=
http://singleparents.about.com/od/successfulcoparenting/a/simoneau.htm | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 6:20:35 AM | | Pucks, you are right, I got custody because my ex had problems. If she was a fit Parent and had her affairs together, then I would have let my son live with her. Yes I would prefer he live with me, but I would want him to have a home base as I feel it would be better for him. I would have moved to be closer to him, and I would have made sure I saw him weekends and days through the week as well. I really don't like the back and forth every week, I don't think that it is really best for the kids. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 7:49:30 AM | | Your arguement holds no water. Wether you have them on the weekends, or every other week, the kids are doing the back and forth thing every week. The only difference is, rather then doing 7 days on and off, you would prefer a 4 day/3 day schedule, almost an equal ammount of time. Does that extra day a week equal the children having a home base? Or would the children be confused and never have a sense of home? Or, could the kids be well rounded and view both homes as their own? In either case, wether it is 7 days on and off, or the weekend thing, my opinion is for the latter... | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 8:19:20 AM | | Damage, I would disagree with your comment. Having the kids on weekends, yes they go back and forth, on weekends only. They would have a home base this way at least. I just think that one wek at Mom's house and the next at Dad's house really doesn't give the kids " Their House ". | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 30 | |
| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 10:02:40 AM | Aeropeach,
OMG, i missed your point prolly coz your all over the place.
The thread is about a dad wanting 50/50 custody. Your bringing up all kinds of stuff that is irrelevant.
What does a parent sleeping with someone have to do with this ?
Why are you bringing up kids whose parents sold them into prostitution for drugs?
Kids who have been beaten? Kids who have been tortured, starved and neglected? This has nothing to do with the topic.
Stay on topic please, i have a headache now.
Start your own thread if you want to discuss your work experience | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 10:06:44 AM | Let's look at the whole thing from an emotional standpoint for the kids then, since Damage believes that the frequent transition information apparently doesn't apply here. OP, what are you going to tell your kids when they ask why mommy and daddy don't live together anymore? (Just picking you as an example since you mention why the marriage is over.) If you are mad at mommy for something, are you going to tell the kids the truth, that mommy cheated on daddy?? Or are you emotionally mature enough to say something appropriate?
When mommy is late picking the kids up or asks for them to spend an extra night because she wants another day in the Bahamas with her new boyfriend, are you going to slam down the phone and rant in front of the kids? Probably not the first time. What about the fifth time? Or the tenth? What about if you had a date yourself for that night and now you have to cancel because mommy didn't bother to call until an hour before they were due to return to her, and she's still in a hotel hundreds of miles away? Are the kids ever going to hear you say on the phone to your girlfriend that mommy is a b!tch or a sl^t? Of course not, because adults never need to vent to their friends and kids *never* eavesdrop.
Shared parenting (which in Florida still generally consists of visitation for the noncustodial parent every other weekend, every other holiday and a month in the summers) does not eliminate agreements about child support and other shared expenses, particularly medical ones. If the couple fought about money before they divorced, they are going to do it after the divorce as well, unless they have no contact. True shared parenting such as Puck has successfully managed is going to give the couple even more things to fight about, not less. Honestly, being successful at the shared parenting would leave me to wonder if they got along that well, why they got divorced in the first place.
A few of those articles clearly stated that in true shared parenting situations where the parents are cooperative, consistent and supportive with each other at all times, the kids are generally behaviorally, psychologically and academically on the same level with kids from an in tact home. However, each of those articles lists as a big caveat that children from true shared parenting situations where the parents were NOT cooperative, consistent and supportive with each other, where the kids were subjected to the same types of behavior that existed in the marriage - yelling, arguments, etc., that those children were generally worse off behaviorally, psychologically and academically than kids from a single parent home.
The professionals seem to have consistent, across the board opinions that shared parenting is great when it works. When it doesn't it's worse for the kids. I've already stated my experience with parents and their emotional maturity levels when it comes to their kids during a divorce.
Sarah | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 32 | |
| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 10:45:09 AM | aeropeach,
so much babble and bs in there again i cant see how anyone knows where you going with your posts.
you state " true shared parenting such as Puck has successfully managed is going to give the couple even more things to fight about, not less".
UMMM WRONG.
We fight less.
you act like you know me. Anyone who ACTUALLY knows me will say differently.
Did if ever occur to you that parents with split custody or that get along actually communicate more?
you state " being successful at the shared parenting would leave me to wonder if they got along that well, why they got divorced in the first place"
Wonder all you want.
There are many reasons why a relationship may not work out.
For some people it could be; a couple could be better as friends than as lovers. For others it could involve cheating, gambling, addictions or personality change. People shouldnt just stay in a relationship because of children. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 10:59:14 AM |
When mommy is late picking the kids up or asks for them to spend an extra night because she wants another day in the Bahamas with her new boyfriend, are you going to slam down the phone and rant in front of the kids? Probably not the first time. What about the fifth time? Or the tenth? What about if you had a date yourself for that night and now you have to cancel because mommy didn't bother to call until an hour before they were due to return to her, and she's still in a hotel hundreds of miles away? Are the kids ever going to hear you say on the phone to your girlfriend that mommy is a b!tch or a sl^t? Of course not, because adults never need to vent to their friends and kids *never* eavesdrop.
Are you actually and seriously stating that this is a reason why children SHOULDN'T enjoy the benefits of 50/50 shared parenting?? Seriously?? Your kidding right??
Only the IMMATURE person would........first of all behave this way!!! Secondly...how about the single parent who only has a break from the children on weekends or a few days a month...or NEVER?....what the heck kind of language do you think the children hear in that home?? No..I don't mean always....but again, for the immature parent!!
And another thing....as Pucks already stated, there are numerous reasons why a couple separates.....personally, I don't want to be with someone that is a consistant gambler...MY REASON FOR A DIVORCE! Not that it's any of your freaking business...but putting it out there.
OMGosh woman...stop shoving the psycho babble up our butts...MY children are happy, well adjusted individuals....so are Puck's kids. Stop using the endless encyclopedias to prove your point. If your experts are so wise...maybe they should spend some time at one our houses.....then redo their 'bibles'. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 11:44:26 AM | I would suggest not doing this unless you both live close enough to eachother and have similar child rearing styles. I have had split custody with my ex for over three years. He lives over an hour away because of work. It's going to mean a change soon as my son is starting school next year. Also, his parenting style is much different and the back and forth means his is developmentally delayed. He doesn't know his alphabet, how to count to ten, and most importantly, he is not fully potty trained at 4 years old. Believe me, I have done everything. I'm most likely going to have to take him to a therapist to find out why. Please think of another way. Perhaps one of you could pick them up after school afew days a week to spend time with them, then return them to their "home" to sleep. GOODLUCK! | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 11:59:26 AM | It's funny to read the meanderings of these threads.
Subject: I want shared 50/50 custody
Message: Any guys have it? tips, my kids are 3 and 6 years old. My soon to be ex is a decent woman, but strayed and doesn't want back in.
I want 50/50 shared custody. what schedules do you do? are there support groups? How do you handle expenses?
Every bit of that post is open to discussion, comment, and opinion - without being off topic.
Even the glaring inconsistency of the poster are fair game. No one mentioned it!
Consider the statement: "My soon to be ex is a decent woman, but strayed and doesn't want back in. ( What the hell does that mean?!) Are you serious! You're either unable to accept what you see or unwilling to accept it for what it is.
Jeepers - is it just me or does that not disqualify her TWO TIMES from being considered a 'decent woman'. She is an indecent woman for having strayed and indecent for not 'wanting in' to the relationship she vowed to be part of. Particularly finishing the job of raising the kids with the person they created them with.
From there - it's downhill all the way.
Not 'as it should be' as a a prior poster remarked regarding custody.
It should be as it was in the begining.
Selfishness and self-deception follows.
Mere mention of 'the kids view' is countered as off-topic.
Maybe you've found comfort for your selves - but the kids are screwed. At least acknowledge it and accept that it is on-topic.
Unless we can agree on the basis of what is known - we're off topic immediately.
Some wrongs can't be righted.
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 12:10:48 PM | "so much babble and bs in there again i cant see how anyone knows where you going with your posts."
Gee, you ask me what my sources are and I give you plenty and you become insulting. You make a blanket statement that if kids are asked if they want both parents in their lives they'll say yes, and I point out that children always say that, including in the extreme circumstances that I mentioned... and so you become insulting again.
I'm not going to bother repeating myself "with psychobabble" any more if you aren't capable of reading for content. I hope your arrangements continue to work for you and that perhaps someone had some informative reading out of the information you
asked for and now completely discount.
Sarah | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 12:18:42 PM | "This arguement about stability is nonsense. There is no stability issues if the parents get along, or have a court order defining the access."
There is an issue of stability if one parent has an addictive personality that the court has ignored or one parent is just looking to avoid paying child support. There is no stability when either of these issues come into play.
In general the 50/50 custody is a good thing as long as the parents get along and the kids are comfortable in both homes. In my case my youngest child seems to do much better staying 4 days every other week at her dad's house. I have tried the one week on/one week off with her and it just wasn't working.
Now she is comfortable and actually building a relationship with her father and that is the ultimate goal--to have a healthy relationship with both parents. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 38 | |
| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 12:59:51 PM | ^^^^
i fail to see how child support has anything to do with stability?
enlighten me and maybe i'll see it. i dont pay child support and my kids are stable.
"the 50/50 custody is a good thing as long as the parents get along and the kids are comfortable"
Agreed.
This is happening more and more now.
"and that is the ultimate goal-to have a healthy relationship with both parents"
Agreed.
As previoulsy stated.
The children have the right to have BOTH parents involved in their care and upbringing. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 2:59:33 PM | The 50/50 thing works well for me, my kids, and my ex.
We switch on Sunday afternoon and the kids live with me for a week then it's back to their mom's for a week.
We've been doing this for almost 6 years. The kids sometimes complain that they'd like to live with me all the time, but I'm sure they do the same at their mother's. They have their rooms here and there. They have toys here and there. They have the same friends and such.
It works for us. Someday I thnk the kids will push to live here full-time, but they aren't quite old enough to make that decision yet. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 4:56:50 PM | | I have it myself; pretty much everything is split 50/50 such as: childcare, school lunches, out of pocket med/dental expenses, school clothes. Otherwise there is no exchange of funds between parents. For this to work there must be good comunication between the parents for the kids sake otherwise, stay out of each others lives. Email me if you have any questions. Later | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 5:12:33 PM | | Our week starts onMondays. I pick the kids up from school on Monday and have them for a full week. You know homework, taekwondo, and extracurriular activities and all the other stuff that goes along with life; then, take the kids to school on Monday and their mother picks them up and has them for a week. This schedule works great for us but, one thing, you need to live in a close geographical area for this to work. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 5:16:32 PM |
Otherwise there is no exchange of funds between parents.
I wish there was no exchange of funds in my case. I pay all the medical, dental, education funds and still give her over $600/month. We do split extra curricular stuff in half. I don't like it much, but it could be a lot worse. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 6:08:24 PM | Hey man first i must say well done to most of the guys on this forum.And real world advice also.I have 50% custody of my 4 girls and yes when they were younger we did a few days at a time but now we do a week at a time.They feel good about it and will always remember that their dad is one of the few that didn't run.They will adjust to any schedual with consistancy.Good luck and proud to see more guys instead of boys in a mans body that gives our gender such a bad name. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 6:11:41 PM | | Well done girl being able to put the kids needs first and helping them grow up so well adjusted. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/21/2007 7:14:59 PM | It's nice to finally see some answers to your questions-some of these threads take on lives of their own and spin off into spitting contests.
I have 50-50 custody (kids: 14 and 9) with them at my house Teus. and Wed. and every Fri-Sun. Unfortunately, I live one town away (which happens to be in a different school district - but will be moving back as soon as real estate prices come back to reality), so there is a lot of driving to school on my part. I like the time in the morning to talk to them about school, or listen to public radio news and talk about current events. Little things like that are priceless.
I don't think my kids feel like they are living out of a duffel (definitely at first, though). They enjoy their own time with each parent because we both have different parenting styles and different interests. And I am not an aspiring vegetarian - so feeding them meat may get me a few extra points.
And as I think about it, most of my kids good friends are products of divorce. So I don't think that shared time is really a big deal (as far as adjustment goes) as it really is the norm these days. The days of June Cleaver are gone, unfortunately.
I pay CS every month. The only financial obligation I have is to re-imburse her for the monthly health insurance premium (she has them both on her policy), which is in reality only 25% of my monthly nut. I have to pay 1/2 of any other health or dental expenses which are not covered. Clothes and school supplies come out of that check too.
Do I think this arrangement (financial) is fair? No way. This was imposed by the court as they are partial to the mother in most situations (in my opinion - please don't flame me). I certainly am more than capable of clothes and school shopping with my kids, and have done so on many occasions, yet having to save the reciepts to prove why the CS check is smaller than normal is a PITA and, truthfully, degrading as a parent. There is no reciprocity. I think CS works with an absentee parent, in fact is a good thing, but with parents who are actively involved it sucks (well, for the payee who might be paying more than what is fair)
Her "do you have a check for me" is always countered with "no, but I have a check for the kids - can I see the check you've written?" is my favorite line. I've never seen one in almost four years of payments, as legally each parent should be contributing the same amount (based on an equivalent salary). My suggestion was to set up a joint checking account so that each parent could view online the deposits being made every month (to alleviate my feelings that I was totally supporting the kids and to let her know what it feels like to have to come up with that extra money every month like clockwork), and that each parent could have the privilege of shopping for clothes/supplies/sports stuff and taking them to appointments with that account. Withdrawals could also be veiwed online. Fair and transparent. I thought it was a good plan. And any extra could be put into their college plan.
This gets no response, as she has convinced herself that CS is an entitlement program if you are a divorced mother and that accountability does not need to be shared (also a control issue). And it is pretty apparent that the extra money is making her life easier (paying utility bills/gas/etc), whereas I have to work extra weekends and nights to come up with the CS money plus household expenses plus enough extra to do fun things with the kids when I have them. It's extremely hard. It's not fun.
You should think about things, especially if you are going to be paying every month. If your ex is fair, and can put herself in your place, then things should work out. I have three friends who do not pay CS as they have their kids half the time. At the end of the month they compare expenditures and the lowest spender cuts a check for the difference.
So I am going to go for the ultimatum at the end of this month- either we will set up the joint checking account or go back to court and I will ask for a reduction in the support payments. I'll let you know how it goes. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/22/2007 8:23:17 AM | Are you doing the 50/50 to avoid child support? The lack of stability comes in when one parent doesn't care so much about the child. They are only doing the 50/50 to avoid the support issue.
This is the type of personality that will have the child every other week but still goes out every night, barely gets the child to bed on time or up in time for the bus and in genereal is not home and available for the child. They aren't interested in spending time with the child so much as they are NOT paying the ex-spouse. The last reason is not reason enough to have 50/50--in my opinion.
When both parents are involved, present and available for the kids this is the best way to go in a divorce--it is a win/win situation. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/22/2007 8:41:52 AM | | There's plenty of parents like that regardless of child support. Plenty of mothers too, many of whom would still fight to the death not to give the kids to their ex just to spite them. I fail to see how its relevant to a discussion of 50/50 custody. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 48 | |
| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/22/2007 10:44:02 AM | "Are you doing the 50/50 to avoid child support"
I have been dad since birth, day 1.
There is no child support because i have the kids half the time.
I also pay for a lot of their expenses and we (the ex and i) share costs.
With her new husband and family income she makes double what i do. Not that its any of your business.
"This is the type of personality that will have the child every other week but still goes out every night, barely gets the child to bed on time or up for the bus and is in general in not home"
This is bs.
PS...here's a little hint. Many "involved" dads like myself, do not go out every night. Nice ASSumption there. Many dads are present and available. | |
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| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/22/2007 11:54:01 AM | Pucks,
I never indicated male/female in the personality type. I have seen both men and women that behave this way.
I get the impression that you feel that I am attacking you. In reality I applaud you! And everything you are doing is becoming the norm and I think it is wonderful. Can you honestly tell me that you haven't seen parents scream for the 50/50 to avoid paying the ex though. That is the personality (male or female) that I'm talking about.
Don't assume that because I am female I don't see how many dads have lost their right to raise and be involved with their children. I know too many dads that have actually become depressed because they aren't allowed to spend more time with their kids and I think it is wrong for the courts to assume that a dad can't be the better parent. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 50 | |
| I want shared 50/50 custody
Posted: 10/22/2007 12:01:44 PM | myrto,
Im a little sensitive on the whole parenting issue from a dads perspective.
I think dads (even though my situation is not the case) get screwed many of times. Dads can be a caring parent just as good as mom so i do get on guard with the issue especially when some people assume that moms are the better or more qualified parent. While that may be in some cases it certainly isnt in all of them.
but your right and i do agree that SOME (either male or female) go after 50/50 to avoid support. That being said, in some cases that does matter irregardless as it is based on income in most areas. There are some members here who have 50/50 care and still pay support. | |
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