Pucks
|
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 51 | |
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/25/2007 5:28:23 PM | i DONT read sites that are not North American when it comes to circumcision.
Canadian doctors dont recommend it, and since i live in Canada i'll take what our doctors suggests.
fa1th, since you believe hygiene and circumcision is a good thing, i guess you feel women should be circumcised as well? I mean some women have large labia's and a fair amount of skin around there areas so for hygiene purposes would apply to you ladies as well eh? | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 12:20:09 AM | ooooook... you're totally off the topic! I understand you have a strong opinion on this topic but it doesn't mean you make everyone agree with you. And I didn't ask you to agree with me. Beside EVERYONE HAS A POINT, either you like it or not!
Here's your Canadian link... http://www.circumcisionvancouver.com/ (you will not agree anyway)
Have a day Pucks! | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 1:45:44 AM | Well, well Mr. Pucks,
of course you have the right to choose what information is acceptable for you. Limiting your sources limits only your mind and no matter how arrogantly self righteous many Canadians are about their level of education including professionals such as doctors (MD) their advice is more often than not less than all encompassing and limited by their own narrow mindedness.
Setting personal, legal or religious aspects for circumcision aside the choice to conduct such minor surgery at any age is in relative terms a harmless procedure.
There are undeniable benefits for reasons of hygiene to the patient though this may have been a more important aspect in the past and in warmer climates. The secondary (in some cases perhaps primary reason) for male circumcision is that the head of the penis is more exposed at all times and continuous contact with clothing (slight rubbing) reduces the sensitivity over time. As a result of this and all other things being equal, circumcised men are a little slower to have an erection and slower to have an orgasm ( of course there are other methods to do that as well and can be used in addition), which some women may prefer. Whereas a female labia reduction does not have those effects, hygiene in extreme cases but usually the procedure is cosmetic unless the circumcision includes an exposure of the clitoris. This procedure is exactly the opposite of what we read in horror reports about female circumcision conducted for religious reasons predominantly in Islamic countries. These procedures cover up or remove the clitoris to prevent women from pleasure.
To answer the OP’s question:
the surgery can be performed and at age 12 the patient is not too old.
Not any doctor would perform the surgery (for their own reasons, moral or not being competent in this area) so you would have to find a surgeon who would do it.
If you and/or your son wish to have a circumcision done there are no reasons to stop you, it is a choice you have. | |
|
Pucks
|
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 54 | |
| |
| |
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 8:39:32 AM | | The forskin is there for a reason otherwise the male wouldn't have it in the first place.The practice of circumcision began millenia ago, to differentiate the Hebrews from others.I am not sure why it was adopted by other faiths..... It's must be a very painful experience for a baby boy, and who knows what unconscious psychological problems it causes.. to be tortured like that. And as for prevention of STDs ... I know of a woman who had both breasts removed because her mother and aunt had breast cancer....!! My god! What about diet and other preventative measures.. what kind of doctor would suggest this.My parents both died of lung cancer so.... I don't smoke...that makes more sense to me. | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 8:48:45 AM | Pucks,
Do the organizations you listed assert that circumcision does not provide improve hygiene? Opposing circumcision and denying that it improves hygiene are two separate things.
Since you're willing to consider American sources, how about the US National Institutes of Health (NIH)? Check out their December 2006 statement regarding circumcision. How about the UN or the World Health Organization (North American countries are members)? Both now advocate circumcision.
As I noted in an earlier post, your own words suggest that you know circumcision does have health benefits (what's the relation between AIDS crises in Africa & Philippines and the governments pushing circumcision?). Opinions vary, but the scientific evidence is (pardon the pun) cut and dry.
Wildwoods woman... please explain the purpose of the male nipple. There must be a reason for it, or else it wouldn't be there in the first place, right? | |
|
Pucks
|
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 58 | |
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 9:03:30 AM | ^^^The WHO is credible and i frequent their site often.
You have to remember that the WHO is a world organization analyzing countries with growing AIDS epidemic's in countries such as Africa and the Phillipines. Thousands are suffering from HIV in these African countries so the WHO advocates circumcision to help control and counter this disease.
"as i noted in an earlier post, your own words suggest that you know circumcision does have health benefits"
the studies i have read, say circumcision MAY help with HIV and std's.
Preventitve maitenance is the key to prevent such diseases however. I do not suggest that circumcision has health benefits. I do though recognize that in some countries throughout the world it may help.
That being said, i'd think educating Africans on prevention, safe sex etc would be more effective then circumcision. | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 9:09:36 AM | ^^^ sure it is, oh joy
Pucks, case in point {quote]I listed a half dozen sites that do not reccommend circumcision on the first page both Canadian and American organizationsWe your feet and leave the shore of one continent, if you don't like water, fly or cyber-surf. As you may know many medical procedures have been recommended by credible organizations contrary to scientific research. Simple reasons there is good money to be made....
The OP asked if it is too late to perform the surgery. The answer to that is clearly no, it is not.
Weather or not you or I are for or against circumcision is irrelevant to the question.
Weather or not this procedure is recommended is irrelevant to the question.
Weather or not it is necessary is irrelevant to the question.
Weather or not there are risks from a procedural point of view is relevant to the OP's decision for or against proceeding.
Recommended findings of organizations of the medical profession only influence surgeons to perform or not perform such procedure, hence the OP may have difficulties finding a qualified surgeon. | |
|
Pucks
|
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 60 | |
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 9:27:52 AM | ya ya ya, thanks for your feedback.
are you a mod? we dont need the pof police unless your actually that.
we are discussing circumscion...its all related.
"recommended findings of organizations of the medical profession only influence surgeons to perform or not perform such procedure, hence the OP may have difficulities finding a qualified surgeon"
uh huh...and in Canada doctor's do not recommend it which will only make it harder for the OP to find such surgeon.
In Canada under our universal care system, circumcision is not even covered anymore.
So the OP, will have to foot the bill out of pocket. When a boy is born in our great nation doctors do even consider circumcision unless pushed and paid for by the parent(s). | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 10:19:51 AM |
I do not suggest that circumcision has health benefits.
the WHO advocates circumcision to help control and counter this disease.
I do though recognize that in some countries throughout the world it may help.
Would you not consider it a health benefit to control and counter a disease?
How could it help in some countries if it doesn't have any health benefits? | |
|
| |
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 1:03:32 PM | Actually, cascadian, I chose NOT to circumcise my son so no, I do not have "first hand experience in circumcision". Personally, I see no reason to circumcise unless there is an inherant medical need - which there is in about 1% of men, and these problems usually show up after age 5. How do I know that? Oh yeah, because I did research. Just because I don't have a penis doesn't mean I can't be educated about circumcision, mmmk?
But, unlike some people, I realize that this is a personal decision and was merely providing some information that the OP was looking for. It is pretty clear from the fact that the OP states she is from a culture that routine infant circumcision is common, yet she decided not to circumcise that she is not a "just cut them all off" kind of woman. Her son has come to her upset because he is being made fun of for being intact. Does this mean she should get him circumcised? Absolutely not - kids will always find something to tease other kids about. But she asked for information, so I gave it.
And please don't compare male circumcision to female "circumcision". As I stated already, I don't believe in routine male circumcision, but female circumcision is quite different. First, its inherent purpose is to ensure that women receive no pleasure from sex, and to keep them virgins until marriage. Do you actually know what a female circumcision involves? The ENTIRE clirotis is removed, which is equivalent to removing the entire penis (removing the clitoral hood would be equivalent to removing a male foreskin). Then the inner and outer labia are scored and sewn together, leaving only a small hole for urine and mentrual fluid to pass through. Eventually the labia grows together with scar tissue, and is cut open with a knife by the girl's husband on her wedding night just before he has sex with her. That is, if she hasn't died already from infection or inability to pass urine adequately. So no, I'm sorry, male and female circumcision are not comparable. | |
|
Pucks
|
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 64 | |
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 1:45:05 PM | "the OP states she is from a country where infant circumcision is common"
Yup you got it.
The vast majority of circumcized men are muslin in origin.
Only 10-15% of men throughout the world are circumcized. In fact, cicumcision is almost unheard of in Europe, South America and non-Muslin Asia.
"how could it help in some countries"
Many Africans do not have schools for education or money for basic food let alone, condoms and preventative measures.
Circumcision helps address the Aids crises in nations like this.
"before pointing the dirty finger, look at yourself"
facts speak for themselves and nations that are in poverty like in Africa have problems with unprotected sex. They also have the highest Aids/HIV rates. Prevention and eduacation is more effective than circumcision.
Research it and you'll see.
I have looked at myself and i "choose" to get educated and cover my pinto up.
No green gumbie here.
Health Problems with circumcision;
- Circumcision denudes, cuts of veins and robs a male of penile skin
- Circumcision desensitized, the penis readically radically desensitized without skin
- Circumcision disables, without skin as it drys out, making it susceptible to cracking and bleeding. The amputation of so much skin permanently imobilizes whatever skin remains, preventing if from gliding freely.
- Circumcision affects the external glans and meatus of the circumcized penis are constantly exposed to abrasion and dirt, making the circumsized penis, in fact, more unclean.
- Circumsiciion gives the penis because of loss of foresking, more risk and invasion to urinary tract by bacterial and viral pathogens.
TO BE INTACT AS NATURE INTENDED IS BEST.
Sources for above points;
Nurses for the Right of the Child - www.nursees.cirp.org
NOHARM ...National Organization Against Abuse & Mutilation - www.noharm.org
Doctors Opposing Circumcision - www.wber.u.washington.edu/ged/DOC
National Org of Circumcision Info Resource Centres - ww.nocirc.org | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 2:51:59 PM | i had to have both of my sons circumcised at 4 1/2 both for two different medical reasons ... NO you do not have to have this done but i tell you for myself and my boys i wish i had it done when they were first born .. after all was said and done if i were to have another boy i would have had it done right away .. to see the pain and all the difficulties they had to endure .. to me it was soooo NOT worth it for their sakes ... but then again my sister had 3 boys none were circumcised and NO problems ...
this is up to each individual .... for me i think circumcision is the way to go !!! | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/26/2007 7:09:19 PM | Pucks, oh my
sorry, no insult intended bay any means, but your last comment sounds sooooo  and gullible..... man oh man....is there a Santa Claus?????
Some of the organizations you mention are as their name already suggests bias towards the issue we discuss here. I won't go into the noharm org. etc.. surely there are other areas of real mutilation for them to be concerned with and rightfully so....
. In fact, cicumcision is almost unheard of in Europe, South America and non-Muslin Asia.
FYI
The Jewish faith promotes circumcision, people belonging to that group are and have been present throughout Europe for hundreds of years and some of their customs have also taken a foothold in the many cultures they live in, including North and South America. Obviously the Jewish faith precedes the Islam and many similarities between both religions would suggest that the people of the Middle East share many things in common base on their common cultural origins. The faith may differ today, customs do not. Case in point Islamic teachings suggest not to eat pig for health reasons (possibly due to contracting Trichinosis ), and the Jewish faith speaks of kosher meats....
Now circumcision and STD's have little if anything to do with each other. No one in their right mind claims circumcision prevents STD's. The issue is one of general hygiene and prevention of bacterial infections. Something you may ask horse owners about. Gelded stallions should have their penis washed to prevent infections as they for most part do not engage in procreation activities and the penis remains deeply retracted causing bacteria, old skin and dirt to accumulate and become as large as an egg.
In humans the problem was originally with younger children ( pre-puberty) and of course not as big an issue as it may be with a horse LOL, as we are able to manually retract the foreskin for cleaning...just a logical explanation...the removal of the foreskin eliminated the problem to an extent.
As to the amputation of the foreskin permanently immobilizing the remaining skin is frankly speaking a crock of s*it born in ignorance. The remainder of your quotes are equally far fetched.
Puck, happy to hear you keep your 'pinto' covered. Just make sure to remove the latex now and then, while having a bath or shower would help  | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/27/2007 3:16:57 AM | Petite Might I suggest your son watch the procedure via youtube ... it is horrific !! ... I am from the east coast and when I was pregnant in 1986, I was adamantly opposed to ever having my child cut ... but had I chose to, I would have been extremely hard pressed to find a doctor to do it ...
It was standard in the 1950's and 60's to routinely circumcise boys at birth ... apparently without any anesthetic ... and it was discovered years later that it actually hurt ... Hello ??!! ... OUCH !!
I find it difficult to believe, in this day and age, that a lot of your sons friends ... unless due to religious reasons ... have been cut ... perhaps this is just boys being boys ... as it is when they are a little older claiming that they got lucky before their time ...
It is NEVER too late ... but as has been stated before ... it is irreversible ... so my recommendation would be to wait until he is older and able to make a educated decision ... as well as legally give informed consent ... | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 10/27/2007 5:51:49 AM | I'm certainly no expert, and I don't have children, but if I had a son I would opt to NOT have him circumsized.
I believe that there is a reason we were born with what we have. I don't think we were born to be cut, have stuff removed, have stuff put in place (implanted), or anything of the like. Unless of course it's for medical reasons.
I do have a brother, I think he's uncut (I'll have to ask my mom) not sure. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that needs to be taught is proper hygeine. Maybe some councelling.
As someone else said, When it's hard, you don't know the difference. | |
|
| |
| |
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 11/10/2007 11:32:18 AM | | You should all look on websites about "botched circumcisions" Yes, there are many botched circumcisions committed in North America and the rest of the world by doctors and mohels. FACT: Most medical associations do not recommend infant circumcision anymore. Butchers who love to slice baby penises will say, "There will be a lower penile cancer risk" without adding true statistics like 3 in a million intact babies will develope penile cancer instead of one in a million circumcised babies will get penile cancer. If you wear metal jewelry in a rainstorm, your chances of getting struck by lightening jump up considerably! Let's ban metal zippers to prevent any possible deaths because we never know when lightening may start! Women who get their breasts chopped off have a lower risk of breast cancer when they reach adulthood! If you extract your teeth, you will never have to worry about tooth decay or dental pain again! | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 11/29/2007 12:07:03 AM | circumcision is a human rights violation because it's always done to children. Children cannot possibly consent to the permanent procedure. It removes half the skin of the penis. The foreskin is also the most errogenous part of the penis- it's filled with Meissner corpuscles.
When will people stop mutilating the genitals of children? | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 11/29/2007 12:09:25 AM | | USA has the highest rate of HIV and the highest rate of circumcision. Circumcision has nothing to do with HIV. IF you look at the studies in Africa they have been proven to be flawed. It's the rate of HIV among prostitutes that matters, not circumcision. They compared circumcised Muslim men (few sex partners) to intact truck drivers (many sex partners, especially prostitutes). OF COURSE the circumcised Muslim men would have a lower rate of HIV! Circumcision should be banned and buried in history books. | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 11/29/2007 12:14:52 AM | Circumcision also interrupts the blood supply to the penis which can cause numerous problems.
The wound takes weeks to heal, meanwhile the wound sits in urine and feces. To say circumcision is hygienic is ridiculous.
The normal penis when erect has no hair and is smooth. It also has a moveable sheath of skin, this is known as the "Gliding Action". The skin moves up and down the shaft of the penis, stimulating both partners. The circumcised penis has the skin tight like a drum- it can't move. This makes erections painful and intercourse painful for women. | |
|
| Questions about circumcision: Is it too late for a 12 year old to be circumcised?
Posted: 11/29/2007 8:29:28 AM | | I haven't read the replies to this already but will reply anyways. My sons are in that age group and dr's recommended against it so I am surprised that other boys his age would be making fun of him for being natural. From documentaries I have seen it seems that many men are upset by their circumcisions and going in and having surgery's to place a false foreskin. My goodness I can't imagine my kids even noticing the diff at this point. Is he too old to have it done? IMHO yes. He is a child he does not have the capacity to make this decision. When he is an adult then he can choose either way. Will you find a doc that would do it at this age? Probably not. At the age of twelve a procedure like this being performed for cosmetic reasons would probably face high scrutiny from many system levels. | |
|
Home
login 
evolution has obviously pre-planned for males to change their mind and change their gender.
