|
|
|
|
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 8:21:59 AM | First, I would consider what type of job he NOW has that required him to accumulate this type of debt - and over what time period. If he has a good job now, the monthly payment of approx. $1050.00 shouldn't mean he would be exactly bordering starvation.......
The relationship is obviously quite new, so I sure wouldn't be fretting over becoming involved in his debt at this time. If you take your time to really get to know him, decide how much you may love him, .... take interest in how he handles his finances in the meantime ... things will either wind up looking grim, or may appear quite manageable.
Dealbreaker? nope. Concern? yes. IF he were a good man in all the other ways that matter, one might be a fool to let him go (in my opinion). I guess it all depends on what each person considers as "success and happiness" in life tho.. | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 8:28:11 AM | Okay, I am a little confused here. You said your potential boyfriend has $200,000 in debt from student loans? The annual tuition to Harvard(which is one of the most expensive schools in the world) is about $31,000. Your standard local state college tuition is about $4,000 annually. Let's do the math:
31,000 x 4 = $124,000 (total cost to attend harvard for 4 years)
4,000 x 4 = $16,000 (total cost to attend your state college)
900 x 4 = $3,600 (total cost to attend your standard community college)
Of course, these are only the tuition fees if you are paying the full price(and no one pays the full price). There are countless grants, scholarships, tax breaks, government aid programs, etc that help to subsidize the cost of education. This is just a shot in the dark, but I'm guessing your future boyfriend's college was closer to the community college end of the price spectrum than the Harvard end. So we're looking at an actual tuition cost of about $15,000 which according to experts is only 2/3 the full cost of college(there are book fees, etc). So by my calculations, your boyfriend couldn't have spent more than $25,000 to attend a 4 year college.
Now, onto the question at hand... If the total cost of your boyfriend's education was $25,000, where did the other $175,000 in loans go? I understand that with loans the debt owed is not equal to the original payment received, but $200,000 is 800% of $25,000. I don't think many loans have 800% interest rates LOL. I come to the conclusion that in order to amount $200,000 in debt, your boyfriend must have borrowed the money for college from "Fat Tony" or a crack dealer. I personally feel that this IS a dealbreaker, because once your boyfriend runs out of knees for Fat Tony to break, your knees may be next!  | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 8:29:04 AM | | To nature, and to the universe -- the source of all love -- money is meaningless. So what are your priorities kiddo? Seems to me if you are asking then you've probably already decided. :) | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 8:55:51 AM | well from reading a few of the post here it seems that our society is turning love relationships and families into just another commodity. Almost a luxury item. Those that can afford it can marry havea family and enjoy the good life. if you try to advance If you have student loan or medical debts you are now unworthy of being loved.
all the men and woman without a solid net worth and good financial statement should just stop clogging up these dating sites.
The New American wedding values should read. "I promise to love and honer untill we fall on hard time then you are own your own."
Sorry about your cancer but I just don't want your medical bills on my credit report so good luck I'll see you around.
am I being sarcastic? yes Cynical? yes. But mostly I am sad | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 9:07:11 AM | Ok, listen: for me even a small debt would be a deal breaker in a live-in relationship. But it really depends on how you are really feeling about it......If you don't live together and he says that the debt is his responsibility, I do not see a problem with it.
If the two of you are thinking of living common-law or marrying......then I would definitely PONDER . .........it seems like you will not be ok with it.......so: just CLARIFY this with yourself and leave the guy if you cannot handle the situation. | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 9:11:26 AM | Okay, I am a little confused here. You said your potential boyfriend has $200,000 in debt from student loans? The annual tuition to Harvard(which is one of the most expensive schools in the world) is about $31,000. Your standard local state college tuition is about $4,000 annually. Let's do the math:
31,000 x 4 = $124,000 (total cost to attend harvard for 4 years)
4,000 x 4 = $16,000 (total cost to attend your state college)
900 x 4 = $3,600 (total cost to attend your standard community college)
Of course, these are only the tuition fees if you are paying the full price(and no one pays the full price). There are countless grants, scholarships, tax breaks, government aid programs, etc that help to subsidize the cost of education. This is just a shot in the dark, but I'm guessing your future boyfriend's college was closer to the community college end of the price spectrum than the Harvard end. So we're looking at an actual tuition cost of about $15,000 which according to experts is only 2/3 the full cost of college(there are book fees, etc). So by my calculations, your boyfriend couldn't have spent more than $25,000 to attend a 4 year college.
Now, onto the question at hand... If the total cost of your boyfriend's education was $25,000, where did the other $175,000 in loans go? I understand that with loans the debt owed is not equal to the original payment received, but %200,000 is 800% of $25,000.
It doesn't really make sense to assume that he went to a low-end school (or that he stopped after 4 years) if he claims to have a debt that large purely from student loans. Heck, I'm only graduating from OSU and my total debt is going to sit around $45,000 when everything is said and done assuming I don't take my education any farther. If I had gone to the University of Pittsburg in PA with one of my friends I'd have been stuck paying over $20,000 a year for tuition alone.
He could have been:
- Out of state
- A med. student
- A private school student
- continuing his education beyond a bachelor's degree.
Anyway, OP, $200,000 isn't something I'd marry into until it shrunk significantly. I might stick around for a while if they had a good reason and were actually going to the effort of reducing it. | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 9:17:50 AM | ARTS: what about being pragmatic here?
Love is love and I can love everybody.
A legal binding is a legal binding.
She is obviously not Alice in Wonderland, good for her.  | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 9:21:15 AM | The guy the OP referred to might need to seek financial counselor for his student loans. While he needs to pay them back, they might be taking up too much of his income. See about refinancing or different terms.
Some debt is not bad, like for education or for a home that fits your needs. But I would never get seriously involved with someone who had huge, irresponsible debts and did not have a good reason (health issues, laid off) for them. Been there, done that and wont go that route again. | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 10:13:39 AM | living question I just hope your being pragmatic argument never backfires on you.
Lets take a hypothetical situation. You loss your Job due to cut backs. Happens all the time. While unemployed and looking fora new job your heath insurance lapse. This is also very common now. You find out you have a medical problem and it need to be taken care of now. The total cost could be well over $100,000. You now have a debt that once you are back on your feet will take years to pay off. By your very concept of being Pragmatic. You are now undesirable for a long term relationship on marriage or having a family untill your debt is paid off.
you might be head over heals in love with some guy. you might wish with all your heart that he be the father of your children . But according to you He should reject any idea of marriage family or any other legal obligation Because you have a Debt.
Personally I find equating our relationships to money to be a sad sad commentary on who we as society have become.
But that's just me I put people before objects. | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 10:22:41 AM | | ARTS, yes I see your point. But it is not where I come from. I wish my mother had thought it out twice before committing to love with no benefits on her part. Sorry but I refuse to be a sacrificial lamb or a martyr for love. She got the lesson at age 67 when she opened the door and said to my father: You can go now. It comes down to the price one is willing to pay and to what one has in return. | |
|
| |
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 10:40:57 AM | What an interesting topic this is turning out to be. Touching through it various aspects and dimensions of life in general. Reflecting personal philosophies as well as national conditions.
Eg the absurd absence of universal health coverage in the USA, as opposed to more humanistic - social allegiance based systems in Canada and the UK.
The absurd cost of uni education is the US (a topic I have personal experinece in), especially in "premium" institutions.
The economic model of the US, compared to Canada's or the UK's, ir one where uni graduates have jobs but their salaries are not always that great (sweat shop Services economy). According to recent testinomy of the Fed's head to the Congress, only MBAs, JDs, MDs and PhDs had SIGNIFICANT raises in the last few years. The US middle class is squizzed by costs and credit, And the subprime crisis is going to have who knows exactly what GLOBAL effects, but the US consumer stays albeit confident and saves the US economy from major troubles.
The ability to declare bankruptcy as a person in the US and maybe other countries too. And start from scratch, albeit with that "failure" on your record.
The in principle ability to relocate to another state or area where his prospects of earning more money will be better or cost of living lower.
Her job prospects?
What about having kids and the cost (more than 100,000 Pounds cost in the UK per kid from 0 to 18)?
All these dynamics and systemics affect the case in question (the one described in the OPost).
What should this woman do? Marry "into" this debt? As another poster pointed, if they marry or live together, their finances will be merged, that is the law, in Canada (and in the US??). So one solution is to be together but live apart. Flexibility, why not?
Should the decision be based on love, ie emotional factors or "partnership", ie rational factors? Or what mix of the two?
Winning a lottery would solve the problem, but that is mostly for films/Hollywood.
How did the 200,000 debt come about? Another poster raises doubts as to how one can accumulate such debt via Harvard or via a middle ranked Uni.
16 years. Will the love or Eros last this long?
What if one gets sick and they need money to pay the hospital fees?
Why can he not get a 100,000++ job with a 200,000 education?
Almost every poster in this thread is, IMO, right, partly. Is there "right" and "wrong" in the decision the poster has to make? Based on what type of criteria and constraints? Emotional, ethical, moral, rational, legal, financial, business/job market related, health risk profiles of the two "lovers"?
You are, all, right. Who is to blame? The exchange rate of ......? Or he, for accumulating 200,000 debt for education purposes! What was he thinking, when he did it? The prestige of the uni? How come the cost of the prestige of the uni and teh value of the education will take 16 years and a large chunk of annual income to repay?
PS. Pre-nup? Provided both have lawyers look at it before it is signed, well, that is maybe a GREAT, albeit unromantic, idea.
PS2. Hate to mention that scanario, but is it possible that he is using a fictitious debt as a way of arguing that an LTR with him is not good for her? Hate to be suspicious, but how else can everybody be right?
| |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 10:47:55 AM |
One problem, he owes about $200,000.00! The debt is from his student loan.
*picks herself up off of da floor*.. wow .. that some kinda student loan..
Yeas 16 years, we did the math together. He said that I am not responsible for any of it, but how can you be in a relationship and not share.
there is a difference in sharing & having ur credit history messed up b/c u decided 2 'take on' his financial prob!..
So would this huge financial debt be a deal breaker to you?
oh big time .. i just gotta ask u this ash.. y in gawd`s name would u wanna ruin ur credit history 4 this guy????.. doesn`t make sense 2 me..
craziness is taking on someone else`s financial burden when their in the hole that deep.. *shakes head*..
if ya wanna help out.. then try donating some of ur money 2 women`s shelters.. or animal shelters.. or some other worth while cause.. this 'bf' of urs made his bed.. y should u hafta lay in it 2???.. | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 10:58:13 AM | holy crap $200k is huge. My friend's wife spent 12 years of their marriage going to college and university, just for fun mainly as she had more fun going to school than working, and she accrued about $75k debt and I thought that was big.
I expect to have at most about a 40k debt when I'm done my degree. If I was willing to spend 200k on school I'm sure I could have 5 or 6 degrees by the time I'm done.
Still, for me it would depend on what kind of lifestyle I would be having with my S/O. If she had a huge debt but was paying it off on her own and was still able to contribute to the household then I'd be okay with that. We basically spend our entire lives in debt anyway so as long as we are climbing out of debt and still maintain a happy lifestyle then its all good. If we resort to eatting kraft dinner and mr.noodles for dinner every night to save money then its not all good. | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 11:02:10 AM | First of all, Coolest Name, you are a bit off base. One could go to undergraduate school, then on to get a master's degree, and then on to law school and be easily in $200,000 debt. I work with plenty of Ph.D.'s and attorneys who are carrying that kind of debt from student loans. And it costs more than $31,000 a year to go to ANY Ivy League school, including Harvard and Pennsylvania's premier Ivy League School, the University of Pennsylvania, in Philadelphia.
Now, would this debt load be a "deal breaker"? That's a harder question to answer: maybe "yes", and maybe "no." I've been in a situation where I was deeply in debt because of bills for my daughter's mental illness treatment which I faithfully paid every month (and continue to do so....I'm almost done after 17 years)...I was in a relationship with someone who I truly cared about and who truly cared about me for 4 years, early on, but eventually, I believe it did become a "deal breaker" when he found someone else that didn't have that kind of "baggage", although it was never presented to me in those terms. But the "other woman" was childless and debtless, let us say, and his children were grown and not causing him any "debt load".
I say that to say that most people, despite their declarations of love, really do look at the "bottom financial line", and will always take the path of less resistance....the person with the least financial "trauma and drama" in their life will always be thought of as the "best choice" or "more in control". Unfair, unfair, unfair, but true.
As for choosing a blue collar guy as opposed to a college graduate, because they "make as much money as some professionals without the college debt", I would say that it has to be more than "about money"....it has to be about shared interests. This is not to say that a blue collar guy might love the theatre and fine wine as much as the white collar guy, but it isn't likely, and if you have your mind set on being with someone who you feel is your "social" equal, it might not work to be with a "beef and beer" kinda guy when your tastes run more to "champagne and cavier". That being said, bottom line is, money is such a complicated and emotionally charged subject that any two people who are thinking of building a future together really do need to sit down with a trained professional counselor to explore their attitudes towards money before they make any decisions. | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 11:17:05 AM | "One could go to undergraduate school, then on to get a master's degree, and then on to law school and be easily in $200,000 debt"
Why on Earth would anyone want to get a Masters AND a law degree and use debt to finance all that plus the BS/BA?
And if one is a lawyer, MBA or doctor, in the US, then he/she may have a large debt but a huge potential to pay back that 200,000 in good time or make its payments only a small portion of total annual income.
If one has those degrees (at least in the US) and is not making mega-bucks per year, in 2007 USA, then something must be amiss! | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 11:17:24 AM | Op, I see you're new. :) identical thread was here months ago, even the same words and amounts, until it was deleted because it got nasty. As I recall, the original poster eventually came back and mentioned that his career was going to pay him around 40 or 50 K anually. Of course, that stirred the pot even more.
I don't believe it is possible to be that far in debt with student loans. There's a limit as to what you can borrow without collateral, and also depending on your income or the income of your parent(s).
And I'm so glad that those of you who despise the U.S. medical and educational system and consider it barbaric, don't have to put up with it. | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 11:43:05 AM | I don't think it needs to be a deal breaker. Being together needn't cost anything, unless you have to travel to get there of course. Not everyone actually enjoys going out to dinner (if you need to be cured of enjoying it, working in a restaurant may do it). Instead of going out to the movies you could watch dvds at home which costs as much for one as for two. You have the opportunity to treat him occasionally because you have more spare money but what really matters is not spending money, which you are better off learning not to do, but being together.
After 16 years he may have paid off his student loan; you may have paid off your mortgage or be well on your way, at which point, if you are actually still together, will it matter whose money is whose? You'll both be set up -- and you'll be set up better not only emotionally, but materially than if you continued your spendthrift ways alone. Learning to live more frugally is a sound path towards financial security -- the fact that his necessity will have taught you it could be seen as something to be grateful for, when you look back.
You don't have to spend any money to have the best days of your lives; if he can teach you this or if you can learn it together then you will always be rich in the way that matters. | |
|
| |
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 12:32:43 PM | | You have a lot to consider. As much as you would like to help him, first look for evidence that he is trying to resolve this on his own. Consider what other debt service he might have and look for signs of financial responsibility. Do not let what you feel for him get in the way of how you should protect yourself. Do not sell your house, don't take out loans against it to pay off this debt, and keep your accounts in your own name. Yes, love is great, but it can blind us at times. Stand by your man, let him know how you feel, but be cautious. | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 2:49:27 PM |
To nature, and to the universe -- the source of all love -- money is meaningless.
The universe and nature are likewise the source of all hate. The universe cares nothing about humans or even the earth; it is true that the universe cares nothing about money, but humans do.
People who say that money isn't or shouldn't be important are delusional. There was a popular song a few years back that said something along the lines that people who say money is nothing never had a "welfare Christmas." If you don't have enough money to pay the rent, buy food, or pay the electric bill, see how long you stay happy and secure.
I have been in a marriage that was financially comfortable; I was in a relationship where I was the primary wage-earner. Money couldn't hold me to my husband, but I will never be in another relationship where the man cannot hold his own. I can support myself, but I won't support someone else who can't or won't support himself.
A debt as huge as the one the OP mentions will influence how that person thinks and conducts him or herself. It will color every aspect of his/her life. If he is making enough money to easily make the payments, that would be one thing, but it sounds as if he can't. I understand student loans--I have one--and if the education that the money bought makes the "loanee" happy, so be it.
But to be tied to someone who can't leave the house because he can't afford it, not appealing. I am perfectly willing to pay my way, but not the way of someone else--nor do I expect anyone to pay mine.
| |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 3:33:07 PM | [QUOTE]The universe and nature are likewise the source of all hate.[/QUOTE]
K. You focus on that instead.
[QUOTE] The universe cares nothing about humans or even the earth; it is true that the universe cares nothing about money, but humans do.[/QUOTE]
You've completely missed the point and have merely decided to argue, so you are deconstructing and pointing to extremes. The universe said you should try the decaf.
[QUOTE]People who say that money isn't or shouldn't be important are delusional.[/QUOTE]
Who said that? Certainly not me. So as a premise for a diatribe it's misplaced here. But you've decided to argue so I guess this is the windup.
[QUOTE]There was a popular song a few years back that said something along the lines that people who say money is nothing never had a "welfare Christmas." If you don't have enough money to pay the rent, buy food, or pay the electric bill, see how long you stay happy and secure.[/QUOTE]
I come from nothing. Happiness, for me had nothing at all to do with money. Again you point to extremes to support your attack. Fact is that most of the world is poor. And they love. Plenty. Don't you worry about that. :)
[QUOTE]I have been in a marriage that was financially comfortable; I was in a relationship where I was the primary wage-earner. Money couldn't hold me to my husband, but I will never be in another relationship where the man cannot hold his own. I can support myself, but I won't support someone else who can't or won't support himself.[/QUOTE]
Aha. Now I get the attack. You are still arguing with strangers (even calling them delusional) over something which happened to you ages ago and has nothing to do with them. Well I sincerely hope you get past that... :)
[QUOTE]A debt as huge as the one the OP mentions will influence how that person thinks and conducts him or herself. It will color every aspect of his/her life.[/QUOTE]
WHAT? What are you talking about? Read that sentence you wrote. You really believe that? Yikes. That's depressing. Suffice to say you are wrong. Poor people live, love and do good things without any of the anxiety you project. Millions of them, each and every day.
"Color every aspect of his life"? Sheesh. Lighten up lady. It's money, not HIV.
[QUOTE]If he is making enough money to easily make the payments, that would be one thing, but it sounds as if he can't. I understand student loans--I have one--and if the education that the money bought makes the "loanee" happy, so be it. But to be tied to someone who can't leave the house because he can't afford it, not appealing. I am perfectly willing to pay my way, but not the way of someone else--nor do I expect anyone to pay mine.[/QUOTE]
Such a warm soul. "Give and take" is part of all human relationships. I hope you learn to give again someday. Giving without expectation is a joy. :) | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 4:30:16 PM | OP - first things first. You say you've found someone who you love and are compatible with, there's no mention of marriage, much less living together. It seems like you're living the life of "what ifs", and from what I can tell is you're crazy about this guy. Is he crazy about you? Do you BOTH see a future as to where your relationship is going?
Good thing is this debt is out and in the open, I commend both of you for discussing it. Most people stick their heads in the sand and refuse to talk about money. Know your options, should you marry or even live with this guy. How does he manage his money (prior to paying on his student loans)? There's good debt (student loans and mortgage), as well as bad debt (credit card, car loans, etc).
This fella is not expecting you to not to live your life. If you're debt free, want to go on a vacation, go shopping, etc. by all means, don't put your life on hold for 16 years. He's chosen this path, therefore, he must foot the bill. If you offer to help him out from time to time, then that's cool too, but there's nothing that says you're "obligated" for his debts. Should you marry or even live together, you do not want to co-mingle funds, (everything in joint accounts). I suggest a "his"; "hers" and a "family" household account (takes care of the mortgage, utilities, groceries, gas, and insurance). "His" household account should go towards the student loan.
One step at a time, that's what you need to do. It's good to keep the communication lines open when it comes to money. Also, if the relationship does progress towards marriage, I recommend you BOTH sit down and review each other's credit reports. The key to his financial survival will be good money management skills. | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 4:36:59 PM | depends on what you can handle; because your gonna have to take a step down in regards to how your living, either because your fitting to his lifestyle or you gon be living that way because you gonna have to help contribute to paying that loan down.
he is honest about it which means he respects u and cares about u; but it won't be easy, its hard for established married couplea to work this out, much less people who have not necessarily solidified their relationship.
it can work...i have seen it work; but 50% of marraiges end because of money problems, an as many people will look their nose down on u..money is a big issue. That is why people date people who have good jobs/careers/their own homes/etc | |
|
| SHOULD HUGE FINANCIAL DEBT BE A DEAL BREAKER?
Posted: 10/23/2007 4:44:07 PM | Lose him....because you don't deserve him. If you can't value him or the sacrifices he made to improve his mind than you lack the bigger picture to be his partner.
You aren't doing him any favors by staying with him. | |
|
|
| Page 3 of 7
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 |
|
Home
login 
