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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/26/2007 9:57:27 PM | trish,
I did file a police report about it, I picked them up, grabbed them some food, then drove to the police station, I also let her know that I was doing that and she was at the police station trying to plead her case before I got there. CPS has also been involved. The police said they wouldn't do anything unless it becomes habitual. Here are the actual findings from CPS. As for why they are not getting up since she has work, I couldn't tell you. I dont grill my sons when I get them about stuff thats going on other then have you gone to school ect ect.. They tell me alot, but I let it be them that brings it up.
About filing for custody, I filed for custody at the FOC for a hearing, only to find out it was only a meeting with the Family Counselor assigned to our judge. She didn't show up the first two times and the counselor keeps saying that their mother needs to be there and if shes not this next time they will give me the relief I want. I decided to hire a lawyer and we filed an emergency motion for change of physical custody.
There is a preponderance of evidence to substantiate the allegation that XXX XXXX was responsible for the improper supervision of children XXX and XXX XXXX for the following reasons.
-XXX XXXX failed to remove her children from a situation that a reasonable person would realize requuires judgment beyond her 6 and 10 year old children's level of maturity and responsibility, that may have resulted int he bodily harm of XXX and XXX XXXX .
-XXX XXXX allowed her children to remain unattended at a playground near their school from 2:15pm to 6:00pm without needed transportation or supervision arrangements.
This case will be opened/closed as a Category 3, as this has been assessed as a moderate risk case. Ms. XXXX has made appropriate future plans for the transportation and supervision of XXX and XXX XXXX after they get out of school, and is aware of community resources that can be utilized for day care and children's supervision. XXX XXXX will not be placed on Central Registry. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/26/2007 11:03:32 PM | trish,why are you trying to run the show here? I am not a newbie to this site or to this particular forum...You have just said,"blah,blah,blah" and not stated any facts or any stats to back you views one bit. I mean you are just a raccoon in a corner with it's fur sticky up trying to defend itself.
Of course the men want to get along with their ex's for the kid's sake,but the problem is that is why we are divorced...we don't live in an imaginary world like Willy Wonka and eat the petals of flowers like they are chocolate. I would love to be able to communicate with my ex concerning problems with my son,but there is not respect there and respect has to be earned...I am not going to call anyone when there is yelling and screaming on all her messages she leaves on my answering machine. I also can tell you probably are yelling and screaming at your ex all the time also by the posts you have on this Forum. Most men are into drama,most women are...yeah,it would be good if we all could get along,but then it also would be good to not have to work and win the state lottery. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/26/2007 11:29:28 PM | it is a daunting task you face to gain custody of your boys. it is certainly a hell of a process to get there. i am at a loss as to why she doesnt get them up, or doesnt seem to when she is getting ready for work. the question begs though,, if they arent going to school is she missing work on these same days? and if not, who is caring for the boys?
as far as that last paragraph,, where it says she has made future plans blah blah blah,, um,, if she doesnt actually follow thru on that,, more evidence. the fact that she hasnt attended any of the counseling sessions is in your favor.
i am trying to figure out weather she is overwhelmed with the task of raising two boys, or that she is lazy, or that she just doesnt really care one way or another, or if that there is a substance issue not discovered yet with her, or if she is just being obtuse because its an option. or if she is acting like an idiot for the hell of it.< another head scratcher.
heres another issue that seems odd to me. in the case of my grandson, his school has three primary phone numbers, the cell of his mom, my cell, my other daughters cell. then there is our home number, his nana's home and cell numbers and my sons number. as well they have work numbers for myself, and my daughters. if they need to get in touch with someone, we have made it more than just possible. stay with me on this,, how come the school ,, well from what you said it seems they make several attempts to contact her before you even are given a call. i mean good kripes,, if she doesnt respond, go to the second on the list. this is pretty simple stuff dontcha think?
these are just some ideas rollin around in my head on your situation.
since you decided to hire an attorney ( good move on your part) i urge you to get in contact with A.D.A.M.. there is an office in southfield. perhaps you arent familiar but they are a legal organization leading the drive to change the judicial system in custody situations. they are an advocacy group for men seeking custod of and access to their children. you can find info about them on the worldwideweb. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/26/2007 11:49:47 PM | iamtheone39??
what in the hell are you on about??
i dare say you havent actually read my posts in conjunction with the other posts. i am not attempting to defend anything. theres nothing to defend, myself and the others were having a lovely exchange here before you chimed in with your nonsence.
what stats are you referring to?? good grief man, we were offering up information on situations we have dealt with and bantored back and forth about possible options on how to change the obvious bias of the legal system in the matter of child custody.
as far as you thinking i scream at my ex,LOL , i dont have any contact with him. THANKFULLY. if i would have had my drothers i wouldnt have had to contact him when our son was growing up either, but as it was, i did have to contact him from time to time. thankfully for email, our contact with eachother on behalf of our son was done mainly thru email. as it was, our boy played football thru highschool and had various injuries as a result that demanded we come together as parents for the good of our boy.
and when our boy graduated from high school and i threw a lavish party for him, i included his father and stepmom. see,, unlike you i was able to put the past behind me and move forward for the sake of my son, who is now 19, and in college as well as working full time. I DID THAT! his fathers real involvement with him was limited because of his own chosing. all of the parent teacher conferences, iep meetings, and other various events in our sons life, his dad was informed about long in advance, and still didnt bother to show up. none of the doc appts for school, not when he got sick outside of football stuff,, none of that. but i quietly dealt with it and never uttered a harsh or negative word about my ex in earshot of my son. so unlike you i always held myself in a place of self respect.
you are also wrong about what respect is. its not earned or given. either you carry yourself in a place of respect or you dont. heres a tip, i dont ever feel as though i have been disrespected. in the common way of considering respect, your way,, its easy for a person such as yourself to feel as though respect is earned and given because you put value on someone elses consideration or opinion of you. for me its totally different, if i dont value your opinion then what you say cant possibly be disrespecful to me. but the nonsence you are talking to me here certainly shows you to be void of respect for yourself, because you allowed what you read and misunderstood of my posts to bother you to the point that you had to lash out at me and thereby make a public spectacle of yourself. i dont tollerate such things in my lifespace. life is too short to be bothered by nonsence. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/27/2007 11:41:51 AM | I have to agree with you. The mother is not always the best parent. I know a few cases where the mother was truly unfit and it took a huge fight for the father to get the kids. In the end, if they keeps after it, the right parents ends up with custody. It's ashame that the legal system can't open it's eyes and do the math first. I have many issues with the way custody and child support and visitation is handled. It's not fair across the board and the parents that get hurt the most by it are the ones who are trying to be in thier kids lives..but I guess that's another thread.
I think the overall opinion is that the women is the natural caregiver and therefore should get the kids. Women are the ones who bear the children and the ones who, traditionally, raise them. I know this is slowly changing as women get more involved jobs and men become more active in thier childrens lives. But as it stands today the women is still more likely to be the primary caregiver even in a two parent household. The courts are merely following this trend. Traditionally, the father is the one who is out of the home more, making the money or doing whatever else they need to support the family. This trend is changing, albeit slowly. Men are still the primary breadwinner while women are the primary caretakers. I don't think it has anything to do with courts thinking men can't raise children on there own. I just think they are following traditional family roles. I have seen cases where the men get custody of thier children right out of divorce court. Admittingly these are extreme cases. But it's a good sign that the courts are recognizing the trend of men increasing thier time spent in the home and women increasing thier time spent out of it. Until that reaches a 50/50 split or more I think courts are going to continue to favor the women. They are the natural caregivers, that is, since the beginning, their primary function, whereas men where always the ones to bring home the bacon..even prior to civilazation being the way it is today. Until we see the gender roles dissovle, we won't see a major change in the courts decisions.
PS..I didn't read any of the responses..sorry if this is all said already.. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/27/2007 11:57:59 PM | | Trish,your anger in your past chimes in every word you say...you still have issues with your ex while I have continued on with my life...it all comes from me raising my kids on my OWN. If I had hopped in bed with another woman before rising up from the ashes of my marriage,then I would have had issues like you...bantering on and on about how good you are and how everyone else is wrong. I was just putting in my opinion like others on this forum. A thread is made up more than just two people,so move back and let others post my dear. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/28/2007 9:51:02 AM | .""bantering on and on about how good you are and how everyone else is wrong.""
i have asked you to cut and paste before where you misunderstood anything i said, and you failed to do so, so again i will ask you to cut and paste where you again misunderstood my posts. i dare say you wont do it because its not there. but for the sake of clarity, at least try to show me where you figure i said anything of the sort? could be that you simply have a comprehension issue., certainly seems that way. what you have said in your last post wasnt an opinion its an obvious lack of comprehension of what was actually said. again, i challenge you to cut and paste what your referring to. if you dont, then i am right in that you dont understand what you read. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/28/2007 9:53:04 AM | maybe people are skipping your posts trish.. ???
They are hard to read..
My opinion is that usually prior to a divorce women are the primary care giver so it is automatically assumed by the woman that the kids will stay with her.
Depending on the actual circumstances of the divorce or seperation, I believe joint or shared custody to be the absolute best choice for the child. Now, that doesn't work for probably 80 % of families due to proximity of family homes, finances, compliance by both parents to engage in this model, and sometimes the child's wishes.
In my case, my children were all old eneough to make their own decisions according to the courts. I offered every weekend to the ex who suggested every second weekend. The kids tried that and found they "felt like they were simply visiting" because Dad made them clean the entire area they slept in, and if they forgot one item he returned it to them the next day, and they were not allowed to keep "their junk" as he called it at his house.
Now, they will go for an occasional dinner, a movie but that is about it.
The circumstances of divorce make co parenting a nightmare often. It is a great idea in theory but the practicalities of co parenting with someone who doesn't respect, like or want to deal with you is difficult. It's difficult for the person who was left to deal with strictly parenting issues as opposed to constantly bringing the failed marriage into the conversations. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/28/2007 10:03:05 AM | damage,, catagory3 is a high misdemeanor. which gets my blood boilin, cuz if in involves kids, imho it should be taken more seriously than a slap on the wrist.
i am certain you will stay on this, your key to the best benefit of your boys is a paper trail. good luck\heres a thought though,, ya might wanna ponder over,, unless they have totally dispenced with the case,, as in closed it completely,, i would go to the court if i was you and request being named as the subsequent afterschool care person. it would put you on better footing to get custody. at the very least, follow up on what she ensured to the court of making better arrangements for them. if they have left it open to dispence with at a later date after she has shown them that better arrangements were made. etc etc,, you see where im going with this.
if she doesnt make better arrangements, and i dare say she will screw up again,, and god forbid you find yourself in the same moment again of them being at that park,, this time,,, dont call her when you're on your way to the police station,, let them call her.once is an isolated incident, twice is that habit they told you about.
i can be sneaky with the best of em, and totally within the law. washtenaw county doest play with this type of shit, she would have an open file on her by now with the right agency.wayne county has a habit of losing ppl/kids inside their own system. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/28/2007 10:51:32 AM | I have to admit I'm totally amazed the sheer number of single dad's that I know. I think back to when I was younger, like early 80's and it was very unheard of for mom's to walk on their kids.
Now, its not that uncommon at all. I think alot of our perceptions about women being closer to the kids etc is hogwash. I think we've been brainwashed by the 50's to believe that.
I think men are just as able as women to connect to kids, raise them etc. They can't give birth but that in itself doesn't make a good mother. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/28/2007 3:33:16 PM | trish,
I have a paper trail right now. As for requesting for being the subsequent afterschool care person, I will bring that up with my attorney on Wed when we go to court. It seemed we may have misunderstood each other in the begining, and I apologize for jumping on you a little bit. I do appreciated the advice you have given me and will definately bring up some of these points with my lawyer and decide what to do. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/28/2007 9:55:57 PM | Trish,I got on this forum to relax,not to try and play lawyer proving my points...I am not getting graded here or paid. I don't believe you are either,relax girl...maybe then,that catch will come...most men are looking for fish,not sharks.
It is the norm to always expect single moms to get the kids. In the last decade things have changed a little. Fathers have wanted more of a part in their kids lives. I do believe that is a change for the good. Unfortunately, the reason why there are more single Fathers isnt really because of the increase in the father's role,but actually a DECREASE in the interest in mothers wanting to take part in their kid's lives. No,Trish,I can't copy and paste my evidence,but read any Newsweek or U.S. News for the lasted stats on that info. I am just glad that there are still Moms and Dads that want to play a role in their kids lives. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/28/2007 10:22:02 PM | It comes from the old world thinking mentality the a mother is the caregiver while the father the disciplinarian or the mother carried the child within her womb and therefore has some kind of mystical bond with the child.
The findings now point that there are equally poor parental types on both sides of the coin. There is no automatic bonding a child will take to a mother. The bond forms once the child is born. Generally speaking the parent that spends more time with an infant will generate a stronger bond as the child will associate voice, smell, and touch from that parent as it's protector.
As far as the courts go, it depends upon the state that you live. Some states lean toward one parent or the other. However, this can be over come by being a solid parent and heavily involved in the child's life.
I myself won custody of my son after 11.5 years of court. I made the mistake of youth and thought that trying to work with his mother for the benefit of our son would be best. In some cases this is encouraged. In mine, my son was hurt in ways that I will not discuss by his mothers hand.
Really it depends on who is the most involved and puts the child first that counts.
I think I carried on enough. I hope this didn't offend anyone. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/30/2007 3:03:57 PM | Trish,I got on this forum to relax,
is that so,, funny way you have of relaxing, the first thing you posted toward me was venomous. but to each his/her own i guess, if spewing venom is your way of relaxing,, ROCK ON DUDE!
OH and btw,, i am getting such a good laugh out of all your assumptions,, including the latest about your presumtions about "my catching any fish"
No,Trish,I can't copy and paste my evidence
its simple, you highlight the text you want to capture,, hold down the ctrl and c keys, then when you open to the place you want to drop/insert the piece, you hit ctrl and v
but just for spits and giggles i did go to newsweek.com and the u.s. news site,, did a search for child custody trends, etc,, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING CAME UP. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/30/2007 3:35:44 PM | | there is a lot of good reading here in this post and its nice to see the majority of posters feel that this is old thinking ..equal custody is what it sounds like .i say equality for all men and women .we all already agree that a child does a lot better with both parents .. we have fought a lot of wars for equality so what's with this obviously outdated family law ...is it because the judges and lawyers have learnt that fathers can support them better then the criminals can ?i wonder..we have to shake up some polatitions here .. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/30/2007 4:06:42 PM | You know as well as I do Valley that it will take a along time before the federal ministries will change from the above idea.
They would have to let go of the ideas that;
-most men don't pay support
-most men abandom their families
-women have a special bond that should be taken into consideration
-women get paid less then men so they should get custody and therefore child support
-all men are abusers
-women are assumed to be the primary caregiver
- etc....
When they let go also of the old ideas that women do the majority of housework and spend the most time with the kids, then things will change. Until then it will be slow up hill battle for change. | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/30/2007 4:45:45 PM | I have my two sons mon-fri,and they see thier mom on the weekends.
They are going on 10 and 11,and were 3 and 4 when me and thier mother seperated.
It's a long story and was a long battle. The mother had a lot of problems (mental) that effected the kids. There was also abuse by a boyfriend (sexual)
I'm happy to say that both are doing great now........super kids !
They are both straight A students and have been since day one.
They play sports (football,baseball,basketball)
I myself have been sober 21 yrs and did not do that so my kids could grow up in Disfuntion Junction that was her life at the time and continuing to some (lessor) degree. I just could not do nothing and have my sons grow up all csrewed up and then come to me when they were 19-20 and ask, Dad,you knew,Why didn't you save us?"
I love being Mr mom here.
For 4.5 yrs, I worked 40 out of 56 hrs on the weekends and home all week for them.
Since they've been babies, they never saw me leave for, or come home from work.
I've always been home for them from the time they wake up in the morning, till they go to sleep at night. This hasn't left much time for any social life, but my kids have needed me and I've HAD to be OK with that.
The kids really DO come first !
My point to other fathers is this:
Be Honest with yourselves in the beginning.
To many men will do the custody battle only out of pride.
Are you really truly willing to do everything yourself?
Dont't fight just for the fight, or because you don't want to be a disney dad....again...pride/ego/
If you can undestand this clearly and are willing and determined,the judge will be more inclined to give you more......times are changing.
Just don't bullshit yourself at your kid's expence.
To those who might have a problem with the child support thing.........
If your relationship (marriage) had worked out, everything you made would be going to your family anyway.
It didn't work out and you are likely 50% responsible for that.
ok........49% lol If that's easier to swallow.
I am the primary caregiver and love it
Be honest and put kids first | |
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| Why is it most women automatically think the a child is better off with the mother vs. the father
Posted: 10/30/2007 4:52:04 PM | The legal presumption is based on what's called the "tender years doctrine" and it stems from an old divorce case. In 'olden days' the husband/father was the head of his family and as such the children were considered his property. In the cases of a divorce, the presumption was that the children would remain with the father, and it was impossible to rebut. One day a couple hundred years ago a court decided that the children of a divorcing couple were better off with the mother, as they were in the early formative years. It stayed that way until around 1980. The movie Kramer vs. Kramer had a lot to do with it being changed.
If you live in the US, it depends on what State you live in as to whether you face the "tender years doctrine" or not. If you live in a tender years State, the mother will get custody of the children in all cases where the children are less than 13, unless, of course, it can be proven that she is "unfit". If she is proven unfit, the father will get custody, or perhaps a third party will get custody. The presumption is still in favor of the mother.
Florida abolished the tender years doctrine some time ago, and there is no presumption in favor of either parent. However, in the case of an infant or a toddler, the mother will get custody in nearly all cases, unless, rather than proving her unfit, it can be proven that it is "in the best interests of the child" to reside with the father.
Good luck with it. | |
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