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Joined: 8/20/2005
Msg: 101
Creationism or Evolution?Page 5 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

Those who believe in evolution have never come out with any concrete evidence for this , where`s the missing link?

No such thing is required for evolutionary theory to be proven. There is no such thing as a missing link and it is a term ussed only by people who do not understand evolution as it has no place in the any of the theories of evolution. (The curent model of evolution is called the moedrn synthesis by the way. This is the name given to the theory that explains the facts of evolution.)

evolutionists in general do there own thing, in there eyes there is no GOD who created all things, so they can do what they like, make there own judgments, as it doesn`t matter because there is no God to answer too.

How dare you state that those who do not belive in god have no morals. I happen to have extreamly strict morals, marals that do not permit me to to be a sexual deviant or liar, unlike those of EVERY priest I have ever met. (Please note I am only comenting on those priests I have met, not on every priest there is.) Aditionally you state that knowing evolution means you are a goddless heathen, when infact many of the previous posters have stated thier belife in both god and evolution.

There is a lot of facts that can prove evolution has no basis, for example the human eye has to be created whole, how can evolution no where tho put the nerve cells etc.

If that were true then how come dogs can see? They have a difrent arangement of nervs at the back of the eye, but they can still see. Ants can see and yet they have no Iris or Corneas. Flatworms can see and yet they do not even have eyes, just a colection of light sensative cells on thier backs. That is the point of evolution, complexity arose from simple processes.

I once read from a renown scientist that the chances of evolution being a fact, would be like an explosion in a print factory, when everything landed the complete works of Shakespear would apear nicely stacked and shelved.

Please do tell me who he was and what his docterate was in. I for one would not daighn to tell an elctronic enginear how to build a tellavision, because, although I may be a scientist, my speciality has nothing to do with electonics.

If there are any more questions or coments of this nature, please could you keep them to the valid thread on the religion forum. I have personaly promised to answer ANY queries on evolution with the fullest information posiible, but only on the valid thread for the subject.
Joined: 1/28/2008
Msg: 102
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Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 2/29/2008 10:16:13 AM

Msg 99. Newton's theory of gravity wasn't proved false, as it's still used today, it was just improved by Einstein's theory of relativity. In turn that is not perfect as such but is also being 'improved'. Evolution in my mind is self evident, but in the same fashion, the theory can be improved upon. Creationism or ID can't be improved upon but can only back track just as every other fallacy in the bible has had to back track as knowledge of our Universe is increased. The only doubt in my mind is if there is evolution then why George Bush? One certain thing is though George can't be by Intelligent Design, surely?

Actually Newton's theory of gravity was proven incorrect or "less accurate" if you prefer ;) The procession of the planet Mercury is something Einstein's GR takes into account and there for is more accurate, it's just that GR is mind bendingly hard to use and therefore Newton's stuff is "good enough" for most uses (well this is all according to my A level physics:P).

At the end of the day, science is attempting "algorithmic compression" on the universe, that is the ability to use an equation/formula that expresses the behaviour it's trying to capture in a time frame that is less than real time.

Example, predicting where a ball is going to land given its initial velocity and angle of attack before the ball actually "computes" this in real time and lands.


As for the whole eye is to complex to evolve thing, well if God did design us I want a refund! After all the defect called the blind spot was resolved in octopus and other cephalopods. So God was happy to fix them but not us... ta very much!

And of course the to complex argument can be made about cars... how can we have cars that are so complex, using lots of technologies that them selfs require lots of technology to build etc? They evolved, building on the simple, technologies married and came together. Using the Intelligent designer argument would be like saying every bit of your Ford focus was designed from scratch with no previous work to build on.

Also you know those people who knock on your door? Well they always proclaim the world is going to hell in a hand basket and say God is going to come down and fix it all? I ask is God a sadist? Since what is he waiting for? not enough suffering yet? Hmmm.

Anyhow I'm bored I think I'll go and create a planet or two. (Yes I'm God, and don't ask for proof, faith is enough alone )
Joined: 12/2/2007
Msg: 103
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 2/29/2008 10:43:04 AM
It's a futile debate - one that will never end.

The only comment I will make is:

Why can't religion & scripts written thousands of years ago be questioned, whilst scientific evidence can???

Is it because religion got it all wrong?
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 104
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Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 3/1/2008 5:41:49 AM
A difficult question that has unhinged simplesness of thought in anti-religion and rigidness of attitude in anti-science.

As a Christian, I believe in God as The Creator.

However, I also believe He has created us such complex and inquisitive beings so that we relentlessly need knowledge to expand our horizons.

Enter science as His creation.

We need answers and we must make questions so He created a past (evolution) and a future (space) so that we can expand our thought and feed our curiosity.

I will never be able to believe there is no creator; there are simply far too much evidence that there is one. Just our status as humans and not mere animals is there to testify.

I will never be able not to believe in science, it is the very reason why we were given brains. If He never intended for us to be inquisitive, He would have never given us thought. Animals do not progress because they have no inquisitive thought. We are that special.

I will always believe that it is secular arrogance and religious self elevation to mini-prophethood that blind us to the connection between science and creed.
Joined: 2/5/2008
Msg: 105
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Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 3/1/2008 6:12:28 AM
there is an almighty

others have more of an advantage to survive in the world we live in ! due to past events

life is a game not like football but like gambling(odds against you but you can get even)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

***stop thinking about theorys on creatism or evoloution and start thinking about the main problems now currently !!!that you can see but your not opening your eyes to.

 clarence clutterbuck
Joined: 2/24/2008
Msg: 106
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 3/1/2008 10:37:37 AM
"The only doubt in my mind is if there is evolution then why George Bush? One certain thing is though George can't be by Intelligent Design, surely? "

The fact that evolutionary throwbacks like George Bush crop up from time to time is no reason to distrust the theory, any more than is the tendency of comedians to regress to the apelike state of TV gameshow host. I notice Jasper Carrot [real name probably something like Cyril Smedgethwaite] has recently fallen victim to this alarming trend.

The reality of evolution is borne out by what can be examined in the fossil record, and some of the stories told therein are more thrilling than anything you might find in a religious tract. Like the fact that whales are descended from land mammals for instance. If the Bible had any divinely inspired veracity, it might just have slipped this fascinating fact into the story of Job.
The revelation would have rendered it's foreskin stripping recipients aghast - they'd probably have had to go out and stone something, just to calm down and let off steam. Centuries later when archeology confirmed the Biblical tale, it would have gained the religious tome a lot of respect and strengthened the case for creationism, or at least evolution guided by an all knowing, canny creator who drops hints.

As things stand, Biblical creationism appears to be somewhat in opposition to evolutionary theory. One particularly unlikely scenario propagated by six day creationists and Biblically based, is that prior to Adam's descent into sin brought on by the wife's dodgy taste in fruit, all animals lived in harmony with mankind and were vegetarians. Bearing in mind that Creationists of this ilk believe that dinosaurs and man were co- existent like in "The Flinstones", this suggests that a king carnivorous predator like T. rex, plodded amiably about the garden of Eden like an outsize puppy, whilst employing his vast array of six inch long, carnivorous steak knife like teeth to keep the grass down. Far fetched or what?

So it's definitely evolution and not creation for me, until someone advances a convincing argument for the latter.
Joined: 11/7/2007
Msg: 107
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 3/2/2008 2:33:20 PM
Here's a question for everyone to ponder that have exceted the evolution route....

If a man appeared and said they were the son of god and performed miracles like healing the sick and dying would that be proof enough or would you dismiss him as a nutter and have him locked up and experimented on to find out how he/she ticked???

Myself I am open on this subject but not to evolution and god but to something else and god, I certainly don't by it we evolved from the apes over thousands of years...
 Ruffy Tuffy Womble Basher
Joined: 10/3/2006
Msg: 108
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 3/2/2008 3:25:31 PM
Er... Does it really matter at all.??????

 clarence clutterbuck
Joined: 2/24/2008
Msg: 109
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 3/2/2008 4:55:49 PM
If a chap turned up nowadays, claiming to be the Son of God and performing miracles, I suppose he would generate a lot of interest in the fields of religion, medicine and science, provided the miracles were impressive enough to attract attention. If he claimed to have cured someone from a heavy cold it might be hard to get excited, but if for instance he caused a double amputee to sprout new legs, people might sit up and take notice and he could end up being even more famous than Paul Daniels. Whatever the claims, he would probably be asked to submit his powers to scientific scrutiny to rule out any trickery or placebo effect.

I'm sure he'd be invited to debate his claims with someone like Richard Dawkins at a big atheist conference, which would be interesting cos Mr Dawkins would not accept miracles alone as absolute proof of Godhead and might think up some genuinely challenging questions that only a deity could answer satisfactorily.

The guy might also be asked to appear on Five News being interviewed by Natasha Kaplinsky or Asha Tanna, who would ask him what his Dad is doing these days, and maybe get him to reveal his reason for dropping in and give his message to mankind in modern terms and language.

Perhaps he'd be asked his views on the multiplicity of religions available to the modern punter, and be asked to rate them from one to a hundred, in order of merit. Channel Five could make one of those tedious three hour long "List" programmes out of the result, with lots of talking heads like Phil Jupitus and Rhona Cameron voicing their opinions on the various contenders.

I almost hope he doesn't actually turn up . That's the last thing we need!

Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 110
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 5/30/2008 8:40:28 AM
If they are going to teach creationism in school they may as well teach the Egyptian creation story, the ancient Greek creation story, the Buddhist creation story, and those other religions creation stories as well! Whats fair for one religion is fair for all the others. I think people of non-christian religions need to get togeather and lobby in Washington to offset the christian hegamony in Washington.
Joined: 7/23/2004
Msg: 111
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 5/30/2008 12:00:52 PM
The best evidence that evolution is more than "just a theory" is the fact that the process is still happening. On the one hand some species are becoming extinct while on the other new species are emerging such as Antibiotic resistant bacteria (like MRSA) and super rats
Joined: 9/14/2007
Msg: 112
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Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 12:20:18 PM
To side with the creationist theories, you must, without question or exception, be willing to reject science, logic and real life, in general. Every argument a creationist puts forth to "disprove" Evolution has really been a mangling of pseudo-science, logical fallacies, exaggerations and misinformation. You also rely on the same, recycled, refuted arguments. There has not been one new creationist argument recently put forth. It's still attacking radiometric dating with the abhorrent notion that decay rates vary, and it's still lying about the Law of Entropy to make it seem as if it makes evolution impossible. Nothing has changed.

I do feel that many creationists rationalize these thought processes because they honestly think it's the truth. If you believe that the Bible is correct about the creation of the Universe, then you must believe that it is completely literal, as no contextualist would ever interpret a story which contradicts physical evidence and is contradicted by another story in the same book, in the same section.

Lastly, in order to deny evolution, you must believe that scientists are untrustworthy servants of the devil, whose agenda is to distort facts and make it seem as if evolution is the truth, when, in reality, they're not telling us about the volumes of "facts" that the Creationists do. All branches of science that give evidence for an ancient Earth are just flunkies for the Evolutionists. Astrophysics, geology, physics, astronomy...none are credible branches of science, only beams in the support structure of Evolution.

In the spirit of critical thinking......
Joined: 9/14/2008
Msg: 113
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 12:27:05 PM
I don't see how it really matters, we are here, we were born we'll be here for a few years and die. However we got here, there is nothing we can do to change it - it's already happened and understanding it isn't really going to make that much difference anyway.

It's one of those things that would be nice to know, but at the end of the day doesn't really matter a jot.

Take your pick on which one you'd prefer to believe in and believe in it if that's what makes you happy.
 Thirst for Romance
Joined: 1/8/2009
Msg: 114
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 12:57:59 PM
There's a mountain of evidence to support evolutionary theory, nothing to support the idea that "God" created anything, and no you can't include the Bible as "evidence", until that changes I know which side of the fence I'll be sitting on!
 Marmite baby
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 115
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Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 1:56:53 PM
Definitely believe in evolution, but did God cause the primieval soup to be alive? Or was it electricity or some other energy? Know nothing about it. Radiation?
Does God(which one?) actually have anything to do with it?
 Mannish Boy
Joined: 1/11/2009
Msg: 116
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 1:59:31 PM
yer see, you have to put it in perspective, to a nut allergy type person, it's a dodgy thing, but to a dandellion allergy type person, it does'nt mean a thing, comprendo?

opps wrong thread
Joined: 9/23/2008
Msg: 117
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 2:47:17 PM
The Quran says that God will always find room for a good man in heaven, so whether you believe or not isn't important. We are judged by our actions in this world, regardless of whether we are pious or follow false prophets....

Having said that, man wrote the Bible, the Quran and all the other books used by the religions of the world - not God. As we know, man is fallible, according to these same books. Only by accident of timing do we use the Bible and not Tolkien's 'Silmarillion', which is imo, much less scary to read to your kids and tends not to produce fanatics willing to kill for God.

Each day the evidence pile for evolution grows higher and what do we get from the 'creationists'? "Well the Bible says...". Maybe at some point Santa and the tooth fairy will wade into the arguement on the side of creationism and tip the balance back.

Still if you wish to believe that something better awaits you because you can't face the fact that we are little different to all the other forms of life on this planet and there's just this one existence, or worse yet that all human life appears to have developed from a small group of hominids who stopped swinging in trees in central Africa... be my guest, I'll be getting on with my one life and enjoying it as best as I can.
 Thirst for Romance
Joined: 1/8/2009
Msg: 118
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 2:49:23 PM

The Quran says ...

Whats Quran got to do with it!? there's no meat to it! fnarr fnarr
Joined: 12/18/2008
Msg: 119
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 3:01:55 PM
Its just one side attacking another; there is no concrete proof either way, is there? Nope.
If we evolve enough to stop attacking each other on how or why the earth, or at least homo sapiens, came into being, then perhaps we just might all try and live together in a little more peace, rather than attacking each other because we all think our certain argument is the right one; and there is no proof to it in either direction, is there? No, none at all; so we may as all shut up now before the people who really run the planet push the button.

Food for thought?
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 120
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Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 3:45:11 PM
Where do people get Creationism from anyway?

Genesis 1.1 Be-reshith bara Elohim [Alef Taw] eth ha-shamayim we-eth ha-arets


The word bara, translated "created."

The word 'create' is an abstract, it would be a foreign concept to the ancient Hebrews.

The word was NEVER to mean create. The word means strictly "to cut out" or "to carve out," and hence from the idea of sculpture it came to mean "to put the finishing touch," "to polish," and so "to perfect."

The Greek word kosmos, which in the New Testament is applied to it, basically means "order,"

In essence the universe was initially a kind of chaos awaiting the ‘Hand of God’ to bring it into order by manipulation. To mould, carve, form and in a sense perfect

If you want to read more about the innacuracy of the opening line of genesis read my posting on

message 50

The bible up to chapter 2.4 talks about the big bang and evolution and NOT any creation.
Joined: 9/23/2008
Msg: 121
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 4:41:04 PM

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14.verse 1

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ". -Mahatma Ghandi
 Mannish Boy
Joined: 1/11/2009
Msg: 122
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 4:44:04 PM
all this doeth whoeth crapeth does my head in, ATHEISM is the way to go guys and girls .... peace
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 123
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Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/17/2009 9:09:12 PM
anyone heard "the second comming" by vaugn meader. very funny though you need to "get" the american culture to "get" some of the jokes.

i found this somewhere. may be useful on persistant door knockers.

If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.

If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.

If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?

If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?

after reading some of the posts on here
it's not surprising that religion gets blamed for wars is it?

what gets me is if they really are so sure they are right.
why do they act like someone has just proved what a mug they are?

funny how the creationists dont require proof of creation. then come out with some pretty wild arguments when shown any proof of evolution. of which the flu bug is surely a good example.
i've heard the one about the print shop explosion, which is what i mean by wild. that is. comparing the results of something happening to inanimate matter, with the results of the same thing happening to living matter!
Joined: 9/23/2008
Msg: 124
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/18/2009 3:40:48 AM
I always liked;

We have Geology to tell us the age of rocks and fossils, Paleantology to show us the order in which these fossils evolved, we have Anthropology to show us how humans developed, Archaeology to show how humans lived, Genetics to show where humanity came from and we have the theory of Evolution to tie it all nicely together.

Then we have Creationism, which is the equivalent of screwing your eyes shut, stamping your feet and screaming "Does not!"
 ~Lady J~
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 125
Creationism or Evolution?
Posted: 1/18/2009 3:50:41 AM
The thing with Creationism, is which God/version of events do you believe? Each religion has it's own God and it's own idea of how the universe and all that resides in it exists. Gods are man made - created by various societies through the ages for a variety of reasons - to control the masses, to give hope to the masses etc. Sadly, as has regularly been proven throughout the ages, gods/religion are the cause of many wars, which to me goes against the grain of what they are meant to be about.

So for me, as an ex Catholic school girl, it's evolution all the way!
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