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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 9:58:35 AM | I didn't realize/remember that things had been quite that bad, and blatant.
What I was saying was the chivalry in this case was institutional because it favored her over him on account of their sexes. Chivalry is an institution which promotes special entitlements, privileges and protections for women, so I think the terms qualifies for use here. We usually think of chivalry in terms of interpersonal interactions between the sexes, say, when dating (as per most threads here) but there's this other component to it at the larger, social level. And there can be a trickle-down effect. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 10:17:29 AM | I just wanted to give a headsup to those who weren't quite familiar with what it was like being male and white back then.
Do keep in mind that though the intent wasn't to shut white men out of jobs per se, a quota system + severe cutbacks meant that for all intents and purposes they were saying "no white men need apply, so you don't waste your time." It wasn't "we hate white men" but "until we hire 45 single parent leprous HIV+ Arab black disabled lesbians, the government's gonna be up our back passage with a microscope if we hire you."
The hatred came at the hands of the academics who taughts us. And if it wasn't the professors, it was the fellow students. One class project involved us being lectured about the fact that there's no male birth control pill because men want to oppress and subjugate women.
But no matter what your color, creed or gender. You get messed around long enough, you'll kick back.
People just refuse to accept that there is a significant minority of young white men who are disenfrachised. They'd accept a black man taking a gun and shooting up the place cause of lack of opportunity - they'd excoriate the system for it. But a white guy? Wait a minute, don't white people own everything? And have privilege? And get paid more than everyone else?
Another growing problem was the number of intelligent, college educated men with no job prospects who were quietly recruited into the White Power movement up in Canada. No longer the province of people from the projects with no education, it's now claiming people with a LOT of education, intelligence and promise - but with no future. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 12:23:19 PM | I'm from England and can totally relate to the sense of being disenfranchised (did I spell that correctly lol). The white, heterosexual, able bodied, 30 to 50 something male is a member of no minority group here and therefore possibly the most discriminated against of all due to 'positive discrimination'. E.g. all female or all ethnic shortlists for jobs. For a while I thought I was the only one thinking this, but 2 things to me say I am not the only 1. Firstly, the mass emigration away from my country by the afore-mentioned social group. Secondly, chatting with my social circle (who also fit into this group), they feel exactly the same way.
However, I do believe in chivalry and being a gentleman. It seems everyones roles have changed except ours . I won't change who I am though 
All the best with your searches
Al | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 1:33:39 PM | Alan - there was a huge mass migration of young men away from Canada into the USA, too.
But that's fortunate for Canada and the UK that they'd rather have white men gone from their country, so everyone's happy.
NOTE: I AM NOT A RACIST. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 3:30:14 PM | Hello Bikerscum and thanks for your input
It's a shame that debates like this need to be qualified with the 'I am not a racist' statement, but such is the situation .
I can't really comment on the situation in Canada or the USA as I don't know enough about it. All I can say is that in my eyes the mix of over zealous equality policy and political correctness has led to the majority feeling so unempowered in Britain. I believe in equal rights but the situation we have got ourselves into is far from equality. I also think people misconceive equal rights as trying to make everyone the same. The human race is a melting pot of differences... yes give every law abiding person the same rights, but celebrate the differences in people, don't try to iron them out. For example, of course men and women should have equal rights, but we shouldn't try and make the sexes the same. I want men to be men and women to be women. If we were the same then we'd all have penises or vaginas and it would be the norm for men to go shopping for a little black number and lace panties (for themselves I mean  ).
Al | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 4:27:46 PM | | chivalry is dead and women killed it. you want to be equal to men then you can act as equals and not expect everything handed to you. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 4:51:56 PM | | rawnuncut You are so full of shit ur eyes HAVE to be brown! I work VERY VERY VERY hard to support my kids and pay my own way without government assistance!!! I work two jobs as well as take college classes and raise my kids... pretty much ALONE! So don't make a foolish generalization!!! | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 5:01:41 PM | RE: MOST have gotten off the beaten path... so how about let sleeping dogs lie... thanx!
Actually, this has a very large bearing on why there is such dysfunction between the genders right now.
Entitlement culture and male-basing lead to men quietly withdrawing from the field. It also makes them hideously mercenary. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 7:12:40 PM |
But no matter what your color, creed or gender. You get messed around long enough, you'll kick back.
People just refuse to accept that there is a significant minority of young white men who are disenfrachised. They'd accept a black man taking a gun and shooting up the place cause of lack of opportunity - they'd excoriate the system for it.
Dude, you have a huge chip on your shoulder. And you are a racist. I've seen that system throw a girl in jail for running a stop light because she was latina. I've seen that system let a bunch of white kids get away with a spank because they were white kids, while the same actions threw in jail black kids. As you say this, restaurants and abastos are being raided by Gestapo like tactics and deporting even people that have papers. In the mean time millions and millions of dollars in Onions, peanuts, peaches are rotting in fields because nobody can find labor to pick them up and that work is not good enough for some people.
So you live in Duluth? I guess you are in the Forsith County side of it. There's a hell of a lot of injustice taking place right now in Georgia, where we both live, and it ain't against the white folk. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 7:28:29 PM | [QUOTE] Dude, you have a huge chip on your shoulder. And you are a racist. I've seen that system throw a girl in jail for running a stop light because she was latina. I've seen that system let a bunch of white kids get away with a spank because they were white kids, while the same actions threw in jail black kids. [/QUOTE]
sigh
I know that.
What I'm trying to say, and you demonstrate it wonderfully, is that we recognize racism and disenfranchisement when it's obvious. But when it's less obvious, we don't. You proved my point.
There's white privilege, but there's also ways in which nonwhites are privileged. There's terrible racism against nonwhites but that doesn't mean we don't have racism against whites.
Be VERY careful characterizing me or putting words in my mouth. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 7:42:20 PM | By "I know that" I'm referring to the injustices in the world. Not "I know that" as in I'm a racist.
I think we need to start recognizing the root causes of prejudice, cause I can assure you, I've fought with and lobbied hard against white power groups and seen black racism up close and personal. BOTH come from the same root. NEITHER is acceptable. But then again, disenfranchisement of ANYONE is crap as far as I am concerned.
You are right about me having a chip on my shoulder, though. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 7:51:40 PM |
Be VERY careful characterizing me or putting words in my mouth.
VERY careful? What do you mean by that?
I am merely quoting you, and that is the way it came across. And I am going to quote you again.
There's white privilege, but there's also ways in which nonwhites are privileged. There's terrible racism against nonwhites but that doesn't mean we don't have racism against whites.
There I do agree with you. But quite frankly it has more to do with the media, and media frenzy than real life. I go to a gym that has a basketball court. Some mean game goes on there every night, teams have white dudes, black dudes, oriental dudes and they all duke it out. You've never see a bigger brotherhood than that. Oh, there's even this short as sh!t white kid, very skinny, he has some huge earring, and the dude kicks ass with a three pointer to kill for. So what do you do? You compensate, if they tell you no, you can't do that. Fvck them, prove them wrong. No matter who tells it to you.
Peace. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 7:58:49 PM | RE: VERY careful? What do you mean by that?
As in, you might get it wrong. It wasn't a threat or anything, if that's what you're saying. Racism is a very serious accusation.
RE: There I do agree with you. But quite frankly it has more to do with the media, and media frenzy than real life.
I'm sorry, but being turned away by most available jobs cause I was white and male wasn't media frenzy. Nor was having to defend myself in a certain part of town in England as well as a rather notorious American town for being the wrong colour in the wrong place. Neither band of assailants cared about my opinions, they simply wanted to attack me.
I'm not suggesting that's equal to what people of colour in this country or any country face. But it has led to some people doing stupid and hurtful things like joining the Heritage Front, the National Front, or in Lepine's case, thinking of taking arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing, end them.
RE: I go to a gym that has a basketball court. Some mean game goes on there every night, teams have white dudes, black dudes, oriental dudes and they all duke it out. You've never see a bigger brotherhood than that.
Far out, solid and right on. No word of a lie.
RE: Oh, there's even this short as sh!t white kid, very skinny, he has some huge earring, and the dude kicks ass with a three pointer to kill for. So what do you do? You compensate, if they tell you no, you can't do that. Fvck them, prove them wrong. No matter who tells it to you.
Nobody beat the kid up for daring to come on a "brothers only" court, nor did the gym say he was the wrong colour for attending. I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
I'm not being combative, I'm talkin, yeah? And I agree, peace. Peace and justice. For all. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/29/2007 8:34:21 PM | Dude,
I think you're still putting an emphasis on the wrong thing. And I tell you why. I know how you feel, I was in that same boat, but I had to jump out of it. Let me give you two examples. My dad was looking for work and applied to many hospitals, they all declined, they said that he was overqualified. With all the research and medical stiff he'd accomplished at CDC, he couldn't get a job. Then a friend tried to get him at the UN, since they deal with epidemiology and stuff of complete global concern. He passed most of their requirement, then they found out his age, no, he's too old.
Was he discriminated? Perhaps, perhaps not. I had a talk with my uncle, who tried to get him in one teaching hospital in Augusta. He said that he was too arrogant for them, they saw themselves as little country doctors and my dad didn't help.
I had a similar problem. I was trying to get into some top notch Ad agencies and they told me that with my accent I would not make it, that they wanted more white bread. Hmmm. So I began to write, published some fiction, began to write radio and some TV, won a couple of awards. Taught in the top school in the country. Then went back again. What did they say, you are overqualified.
The thing is that I can't blame them. All I can do is overcome and define my own reality. Do things in different terms. I was shooting this piece on achieving dreams and was this last saturday at a leadership youth conference at Georgia Tech. And one of the speakers that I video taped was this actor, don't really know his name, but has been in Nip and tuck, CSI and a ton of other stuff. And he said that you have to keep trying because the system, the man on top is simply going to tell you, no, fvck no, you can't do that. And you have the choice to either clean his toilets or don't take no for an answer.
So back to my point with the short skinny white boy playing basketball, if you told that to his face, he would not flinch, he would not get angry, or crack a smile, he would just look at you and say, so, I am still going to kick your ass in this game. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/30/2007 12:08:48 AM |
Entitlement culture and male-basing lead to men quietly withdrawing from the field. It also makes them hideously mercenary
spoken like a truly enlightened individual
alas
it will generally fall on deaf ears in respect to women and most (mangina ) men | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/30/2007 12:13:48 AM |
I had a similar problem. I was trying to get into some top notch Ad agencies and they told me that with my accent I would not make it, that they wanted more white bread. Hmmm. So I began to write, published some fiction, began to write radio and some TV, won a couple of awards. Taught in the top school in the country. Then went back again. What did they say, you are overqualified.
what they are really saying is that we domt want to pay you what you are worth as
1. we can not afford you
2. employing you will make ourselves look bad
amongst a myriad of other true reasons | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/30/2007 12:39:07 AM | it will generally fall on deaf ears in respect to women and most (mangina ) men .
Is this an attempt to try and belittle anyone who doesn't agree with your limited point of veiw. Or are you just trying to show how manly you are to the rest of us? Im not impressed either way. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/30/2007 1:12:43 AM |
s this an attempt to try and belittle anyone who doesn't agree with your limited point of veiw. Or are you just trying to show how manly you are to the rest of us? Im not impressed either way.
It takes more individuality to speak out and speak up on issues that are not popular and still smack of personal, social, or legal injustices.
Continue to appeal to popularity or emotion if you'd like, but it it isn't a solid argument at all. | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/30/2007 1:22:43 AM |
Is this an attempt to try and belittle anyone who doesn't agree with your limited point of veiw. Or are you just trying to show how manly you are to the rest of us? Im not impressed either way.
as Arthur Schopenhauer said - "All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is
accepted as being self-evident. " | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/30/2007 7:26:26 AM | So back to my point with the short skinny white boy playing basketball, if you told that to his face, he would not flinch, he would not get angry, or crack a smile, he would just look at you and say, so, I am still going to kick your ass in this game.
I'm not sure how that is applicable to a situation where people are being denied jobs, scholarships, and grants based on race and gender quotas. You can't prove those wrong short of pointing out their flaws and pressing on for a change in the way things are done. I sometimes find it funny that my friends of other races have had it so much easier attaining funding for their education, but when you get right down to it...it isn't really that funny at all. I was struggling just to afford a few credits here and there until my parents stepped in and co-signed a student loan that I couldn't get through the government because they made too much money (even though they weren't helping me initially.) In the mean time, a number of my friends are literally riding through school for free because one is Hawaiin, one is Native American, and one is female... | |
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/30/2007 7:37:56 AM |
The hatred came at the hands of the academics who taughts us. And if it wasn't the professors, it was the fellow students. One class project involved us being lectured about the fact that there's no male birth control pill because men want to oppress and subjugate women. This is why I try to avoid college-degreed women unless they're in possession of engineering, math or science degrees; these seem to be driven more by logic and less by rhetoric and rigid, hateful dogma. Bear in mind former Harvard U Pres Lawrence Summers would likely still be employed if he hadn't made a comment based on empirical observation about women's involvement in science and math curriculae.
Alan - there was a huge mass migration of young men away from Canada into the USA, too. This should bear absolutely no fruit, since moving from one English-speaking country (French Canadian notwithstanding) to another is tantamount to a "push" in blackjack. The English language is the conveyer of overly-socially-engineered (political) doctine, nannyism, and is the native language of the gender feminist.
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| I need a male opinion on chivalry...
Posted: 10/30/2007 8:01:22 AM |
I'm not sure how that is applicable to a situation where people are being denied jobs, scholarships, and grants based on race and gender quotas.
My whole point with the basketball kid is that in the court, he is a huge minority, he is the one who is disenfranchised and yet he tries to overcome with what he has. Come to think about it, there are great injustices being perpetrated to every group. The thing is, that all we do is complain we become victims, angry at others and filled with excuses and prejudices. In your case you are a victim of being middle class. Ups, your parents make too much money, so they are going to suck it to you.
My sister had the same problem going to school, but again, you overcome, you go the extra mile, you twist it and turn it until you find what will work for you. | |
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