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 Cort1295
Joined: 12/26/2006
Msg: 51
Capital PunishmentPage 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
I'm not very big on forgiveness when it comes to murder. I'd never really feel safe around a convicted murderer or rapist, whether they've supposedly reformed or not. I also don't want to spend the rest of my life paying for their food and shelter. That doesn't leave many options unless they're willing to work to pay for their own food and shelter while they're locked up for life in order to avoid a death sentence.
 NocturnalPrincess
Joined: 8/26/2006
Msg: 52
Capital Punishment
Posted: 4/21/2009 11:46:03 PM
Keeping someone alive with a life sentence while subsidizing their legal fees is an unnecessary expense ro the taxpayers. A dog that is designated as viscious is automatically "put down" and a two-legged animal should be no exception to that standard. Further, if humans are supposed to be capable of rational thinking then they should be that much more sentenced to death.
Their Victims did not have the luxury of humane treatment, did they?

Why do they have a physician examine a person on death row to make sure that they are heathy enough to die, anyway?
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 53
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History
Capital Punishment
Posted: 4/22/2009 1:43:27 PM
Murder is the intentional illegal killing of another person. You're idea to let the person live with their guilt is seriously flawed. Alot of them don't have any guilt and would kill again if given the chance. The murders family has to do without them if they live or not. Either (s)he's in prison or dead. Also executions don't happen that quickly. It normally takes several years before it actually happens. I think that if you had any first hand experience with criminals you would change your mind.
 plentyofflove
Joined: 3/29/2009
Msg: 54
Capital Punishment
Posted: 4/22/2009 2:15:57 PM
They should only have capital punishment for politicians.
 ILoveFriedEggs
Joined: 6/13/2010
Msg: 55
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/1/2010 12:38:23 AM
i disagree with every form of execution bar lethal injection with anaesthesia.
we don't make a habit of hanging, shooting, stoning or beheading animals when putting them down. even if a dog has attacked a child, it's still put down humanely.
humans can commit the most grotesque crimes and it's not that they ''deserve'' to die with dignity but they are entitled to it(?) cruel and unusual punishments especially carried out publicly as a deterrance (islamic countries) ignores that the perpetrator has a family that also suffers, doubly so, casualties of the crime and the punishment. barbaric punishments, imo, denotes us as barbarians.
 ILoveFriedEggs
Joined: 6/13/2010
Msg: 56
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/1/2010 1:14:10 AM
quotes are from the following thread:

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/14114774datingPostpage2.aspx (msg 49)


I find them to be fairly well outlined in the constitution, a basic set of laws that appropriately points out that the death penalty CAN and SHOULd be used in some cases.

not disputing the rationale of the death penalty. do note though, ''appropriately'' is your opinion only, it's not a unanimous view.


Define "human rights"
it does say not to use cruel punicshment, but doesn't define cruelty.

common sense tells you that. referral to the constitution not required.
in the past, executions were limited to the methods they had available at the time.
you rationalize using shifting beliefs. it's still cruel.
 m14shooter
Joined: 10/2/2009
Msg: 57
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History
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/1/2010 1:41:33 AM
I have zero faith in the courts or the prosecutors in this country so I would like it to be eliminated. They have on many occasions put people in prison for crimes they did not commit so how can I trust them when a persons life is at stake.
 SaharaM
Joined: 4/9/2009
Msg: 58
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History
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/1/2010 10:51:27 AM
No capital punishment is not murder. Murder is effectively killing someone for som malefic purpose; if you had to kill someone to save your life, that is not murder. Capital Punishment is terminating a life because the person has proven to be a grave danger to society.
It's not really as simple as that.

There are many different definitions of "murder;" it varies by location and it's strictly a legal construct. Capital punishment is the intentional killing of someone and is, therefore, done with malice (or, "effectively killing someone for some malefic purpose.") I'm not suggesting that CP "is murder," I'm just pointing out that the distinction does not lie in presence or absence of malice.

The "because" of CP is very complex; one variable is the danger to society presented by the individual, but many other things factor in, including but not limited to deterrence, retribution, economic factors, and incapacitation. While one might believe that CP is justified because a person "has proven to be a grave danger to society," that isn't the definition of CP by any means.


You're idea to let the person live with their guilt is seriously flawed... I think that if you had any first hand experience with criminals you would change your mind.
I think it is a mistake to dismiss others' perspectives as "flawed." They are just as valid as your own, and when dealing with such a grave topic, being flippant is not useful. While perhaps you feel more qualified to have an opinion because of your dealings with criminals, you aren't. And you are making a mistake to assume that those who deal with criminals, or even those who pursue, arrest, prosecute, or incarcerate would share your perspective. Some will, and some will not. Your perspective is no more enlightened, educated, or valid than anyone else's. The law and the sociology behind CP is not even really about the individuals who are eligible for execution.
 staceyssc
Joined: 10/18/2009
Msg: 59
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History
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/1/2010 11:17:48 PM
I worked in a maximum security institution (mostly on death row), and while the crimes committed were horrendous, I am still completely against the death penalty for many reasons. My biggest reason is that I do not believe we have the right to "punish" - only the right to protect ourselves and society. In the case of a convicted criminal, life without parole can easily accomplish this. Also, most people are not aware that a death sentence will cost the tax payers about 20 times what would be spent on the average life sentence. Just to be ALMOST sure the man is guilty, the taxpayers must pay for competant attorneys (those who work capital crimes are very expensive) and many very expensive appeals. The execution itself is also very expensive. Death row inmates get many privledges other inmates do not have at the expense of the taxpayers. Death row attorneys give inmates money for commissary and bill the taxpayers for it. Many death row inmates will attempt suicide, causing emergency situations in the prison that are quite expensive. Often, this is followed by expensive medical bills (more taxes). Most death row inmates die in prison before they are executed anyway. Here in Idaho, we had a man spend 20 yrs on death row who was finally proven innocent after many appeals led to DNA tests. It has been proven repeatedly that the deat sentence is not a deterrant to crime, and most inmates find life in prison worse anyway. I knew one woman who's daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren were all brutally murdered. She was not comforted at all by this guy getting the death penalty - it didn't bring them back. Also, this causes other countries (who we NEED to be allies with) to regard us as barbaric. The worlds view on this is so bad that China was allowed representatives on the UNs Human Rights Committee, when the US was denied. The reason - the US is one of only 6 countries in the world that still execute children. We really need to be more concerned with protecting society and leaving punishment or "justice" to God. An eye for an eye just leaves everyone blind.
 valenciacityx
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 60
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/2/2010 11:05:10 PM
IF you are going to have capital punishment, get on with it. 6 months on death row, and then done. Not 25 years on death row; that is not a deterent. And it certainly aint cost effective.
 ILoveFriedEggs
Joined: 6/13/2010
Msg: 61
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/2/2010 11:13:49 PM
^ the system needs an overhaul. it's so expensive because they can't get it right. there should be an edict related to attorney's fees and charges. as it is, taxpayers will continue to get fleeced by rip-off merchants. recent case here, an ex-worker (25 yo female publicist) of a retail giant is suing her former employer for $37 million for..wait for it...sexual harrassment. my immediate thoughts turned to the greedy lawyers behind it. taking grubby advantage of this scandalous news story ..making a mockery of the legal system and undermining future claims in the process..felt i had to digress to explain where i'm coming from.
my views: sentence where guilt is 100% certain, where there's malicious intent and no remorse (consider psychological state as appropriate). reduce the extent of appeals, expedite them in the courts. dramatically shorten the time up to execution. award no special privileges to inmates. suicide can't be attempted if self-harm instruments weren't available (includes surroundings) - it's the correctional facility's responsbility. it shouldn't take years of appeals for dna tests, this should be mandatory for death rowers!
this isn't put forward as absolute support of the death penalty..i'm attempting to asnwer problems that exist within the current system. i don't have an insider's perspective so it might sound naive. it's faulty in any case. my suggestions would actually reduce capital punishment due to the leeway allowed via expression of remorse. damn, there'll be no-one on death row..hmm. however remose shouldn't equate to reduced sentences. life sentences should be carried out in lieu.
i accept it's complicated.
i agree with the view that resists execution if the offence was committed before legal age.
whatever changes are needed, capital punishment in and of itself shouldn't be reduced to economics as it concern's people's lives. punishment/retribution and deterrence should be the considerations (but if being on death row isn't deterrent enough, zero chance lifetime sentences huh!). must also avoid prolonging mental anguish.

we don't make a habit of hanging, shooting, stoning or beheading animals when putting them down.

to add, we also don't electrocute animals either. if a humane way is available (lethal injection as i previously stated) then i understand the use of it.

lastly staceyssc, atheists follow their own commandments.
 staceyssc
Joined: 10/18/2009
Msg: 62
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History
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/3/2010 12:42:48 AM
I once tried to sue an employer (Idaho Department of Corrections) for harrassment. I am talking about harrassment at life threatening levels and 34 other officers trying to sue at the same time. My family also includes labor attorneys. Do you have any idea what it takes to actually win a harrassment case? One officer was given a settlement of $250,000 a few yrs before (after his supervisors restrained him and beat him so badly he was never able to work again). The 35 of us at the time I tried, never made it to court and didn't get a dime. It's a popular belief that anyone can sue for large amounts of money for no reason, but it really doesn't work that way. The few who get large settlements usually deserve every penny.

As for keeping inmates from having instruments that they can harm themselves with, that is a very naive concept and it is simply not possible. The prisons do the best they can, but inmates have a lot of time to think things up and can make these instruments out of anything. I have seen inmates bang their heads on cement walls, try to drown in the toilet, and stab themselves with an inch long toothbrush that they sharpened by rubbing it on the wall for 2 hours. They hide food to make alcohol that can be made to be deadly. They are always coming up with new things. Did you know that powdered coffee creamer is an explosive? There will always be something.

There is no such thing as a case where guilt is 100% certain. I believe every inmate that I worked with on death row was guilty, but it is not 100% ever. Taking away ANY of the allowed appeals only increases the chances of killing an innocent man.

Capital punishment is not a deterrant and punishment doesn't fix anything. All we should really be concerned wih is trying o keep society safe. My oldest son is athiest. He still believes that intentionally harming another person when it is not neccessary is wrong. People who make up their own commandments tend to end up in prison.
 ILoveFriedEggs
Joined: 6/13/2010
Msg: 63
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/3/2010 2:39:52 AM
the case i described has taken the unprecedented step of suing for 5% of the CEO's (the accused) earnings plus 5% of the company's profits, extraordinarily dictating the pecuniary terms, apparently ''to donate the money to a charity that helps victims of sexual harassment and bullying'' according to the statement of claim. this charitable zeal doesn't fall within the plaintiff's claiming rights..wtf? she is probably more devastated by the news coverage than anything..it has likely influenced her claim when it shouldn't have!




Do you have any idea what it takes to actually win a harrassment case?
The few who get large settlements usually deserve every penny.

it doesn't take or deserve $37 million thats for sure.
i suspect self-harm can happen to lifers as well, it's not restricted to death row inmates.
it's no wonder death rowers do it when they're stuck for yeaaars in limbo awaiting appeals. it's ridiculous that it takes 20-30 years..something is seriously wrong.
guilt isn't 100% insofar as you're not usually the first-hand witness. but perps also confess. or witnesses come forward such as surviving victims. relatively uncommon perhaps but it does happen. or a series of compelling material evidence (eg dna, victim's personal belongings in the perp's home, bullets - casings, fragments or matching striations to a firearm owned by the perp) minus a reasonable explanation. quite convincing.
personally i think the decision should probably rest with the victim's family..and they can change their mind from the death penalty should they choose to..in which case, there's no going back as it's not right to bounce the inmate around.
i'm in command of my own thoughts (my beliefs), that's a bit harsh, prison you say!
it's hypocritical and contradictory to use god whilst criticizing an eye for an eye, it's what the bible states after all.
 ILoveFriedEggs
Joined: 6/13/2010
Msg: 64
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/3/2010 3:53:52 AM
by the way, you find solutions to suicidal options as they arise. put them in padded cells ... head-banging gone - check, toothbrush filing gone - check. they'll hardly drown by dunking their heads in the toilet, drats! - check. and wow, how does one make alcohol out of food..remove food item - check. remove coffee creamer, no explosives - check. wow they're more resourceful than al-qaeda.
problems only stay problems when nothing is done about them!
 staceyssc
Joined: 10/18/2009
Msg: 65
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History
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/3/2010 5:27:02 PM
Prisons don't have padded cells due to the expense and the fact that the inmates who need it are the "overachievers" who will destroy the padding anyway. Yes, they will put there heads in toilets. The man power required to search well enough and often enough to make sure food is never hoarded would be astronomical. My point is making it 100% safe is not possible and they will always continue to think of new things. Anyone who has worked in corrections knows that. As for the lawsuit you are referring to, I think we all know she will not get 37 million. Of course they asked for an enormous amount - that is how you start the negotiations. I am sure that the woman and her attorney know they won't get anything like that.
 ILoveFriedEggs
Joined: 6/13/2010
Msg: 66
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/3/2010 10:18:18 PM
the technology must be available nowadays for strengthened padding. build the thing and it's done, one-off cost, it's not like ongoing/future health costs and effects from self-harm attempts. or just haul them off to the mental hospital and put them in a straitjacket. hoarding foods is nothing..without yeast starters, certain other substances and equipment, no alcohol production is possible. no ignition sources either, for one, check and clear visitors in properly to prevent contraband. get on top of them so their ideas lose effectiveness . all i keep hearing are excuses excuses excuses. for what? indifference and unresponsiveness?
and cap pecuniary claims .. to scupper visions of $$$+.
america is the land of multi-million dollar settlements. millions are awarded against defendants who aren't even capable of paying..or a 150 year prison sentence (bernie madoff). judgements of absurd proportions ...no wonder people lose touch with reality, the skies the limit! suing in the hopes of getting a massive payday is nonetheless the expectation. the sex harrassment claimant blatantly oversteps the bounds of her claim..to generate publicity (ie $$$) for the circling sharks (the law firm)..
 Truthisee
Joined: 5/2/2010
Msg: 67
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/4/2010 9:13:09 AM
If someone is found guilty of a Capital Offense, ie Murder or Child Rape, we should take them behind the court house and put a bullet in the back of their head...

maybe hold up a mirror so they can watch themselves die.

 Lesa Dawn
Joined: 9/30/2009
Msg: 68
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/27/2010 1:28:14 AM
I oppose capital punish because we know the judicial system is ineffective and corrupt. The Innocence project has so far freed TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY EIGHT innocoent people. This does not include the numbers freed by other law firms or the innocent who have no DNA evidence to help prove their innocence.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/

The system is not about justice. It is about advancing the careers of prosecutors, criminalists and police officers.
 devilski
Joined: 7/31/2010
Msg: 69
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History
Capital Punishment
Posted: 8/27/2010 6:54:30 PM
"It can be argued that rapists deserve to be raped, that mutilators deserve to be mutilated. Most societies, however, refrain from responding in this way because the punishment is not only degrading to those on whom it is imposed, but it is also degrading to the society that engages in the same behavior as the criminals."

Stephen Bright, human rights attorney

No one can decide who deserves to live or die no matter whether they are a judge, govenor or criminal...The death penalty is immoral and barbaric in my view and I commend any country that those not accept it as a suitable punishment...the truth is the Judicial system is there to protect the majority from the criminal minority, not to punish the criminals...there are many alternatives to Death (though i agree capital punishment is far more efficiant, from an economocial point of view though i approach the subject from a moral perspective)
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