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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/5/2007 9:57:20 PM | | I must say that even though the OP abandoned this thread, I'm glad we kept the information flowing. I know this is an inflamatory topic, one of many, but have never quite enjoyed the discussion as much as I have this one. Mind-probing, deep discussions are what it would be nice to see more of on the forums. We all desire to know the views of others, differing sex or alike. Too many shallow topics(IMO)on the forums, not too refreshing! Bring it on!! | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/5/2007 10:00:59 PM | I grew up in a family of hunters. I also grew up on a farm.
We're omnivores and wild game has always been part of my diet. It didn't get there as therapy for someone with aggression issues, it got there because it saved our family literally thousands of dollars a year by hunting and fishing. We also had a garden. I exacted a heavy toll on the pea population. I have also shot grouse but personally nothing bigger... No wait... I killed turkeys. Those were HUGE, but we didn't shoot them. Just a 2x4 and an axe.
Responsible hunters are fine in my books. And other than law enforcement, hunters and those that work in the bush and require them for protection (I used to carry), I see no reason to have guns otherwise. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/5/2007 10:24:51 PM | Hunting for necessity (food) is obviously vital, and few question it. But hunting for sport is also an honorable and valuable activity. It is a worthy outlet for the competitive drive. NatureVision covered it very well a few posts back.
And yes, there can be valid reasons to carry for people other than hunters, law enforcement personnel, and foresters. As long as safety, civility, and common sense prevail, then gun ownership enhances (and doesn't hurt) society. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/5/2007 10:42:45 PM |
As long as safety, civility, and common sense prevail, then gun ownership enhances (and doesn't hurt) society.
And clearly that is the case.
I shall sleep much better now. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/5/2007 10:50:01 PM | LOL. You may have meant that sarcastically, but a trip to a city like Glasgow, Scotland makes you realize that the presence or absence of guns has little to do with crime and chaos in a given area.
Guns are outlawed for the private citizenry in the UK, but in cities like Glasgow, they are subject to knife attacks instead. And it's really bad.
So again, we must come back to safety, civility, and common sense as the arbiters of how safe and decent a given city will be. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/5/2007 11:00:56 PM | Ahhh. And so the sun dawns yet again on a potential Second Amendment bloodbath ... err ... debate. On that note, I shall depart this this thread. Good luck all! Thank you to all participants for a very stimulating discussion. I echo the sentiments of Searchingfor...?, a lively and informative exchange of ideas. Enjoyed it immensely!  | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 8:21:50 AM | Hunting is done by people for a variety of reasons. NV, nightowl and myself may hunt for entirely different reasons. I didn't start hunting until I was 33. I feel I was man long before I ever started to hunt so that has nothing to do with it. It wasn't something that was part of tradition in my family, it wasn't a passage into manhood. I don't hunt as a relief for aggression, I would go and buy a punching bag for that. I don't do it to put food on my table, I would go to the grocery store for that, for myself it would be cheaper and easier in the long run but I do use the meat I harvest, kill or what ever term one wants to use. If the population of any spiecies were to get to levels that would threaten a healthy number I would encourage regulations to govern hunting even if it meant a season had to be cancelled altogether.
The reasons I hunt are many. One is to get away from the aggression most of us face in our day to day lives. Another is enjoy the solitude it affords me. I enjoy seeing the woods come to life as dawn breaks, there is an innocence and uncomplicated simplicity when you see how animals are in nature. I find it to be relaxing, a relief from stress.
I don't have a problem with those who hunt for reasons that differ from mine. If a person is responsible, hunts legally and safley they should be able to persue it regardless of their reasons. I do have a problem with hunters who don't respect others, thier fellow hunters and non-hunters, and the privilege they have which can be taken away. As I said ealier in this thread there are irreponsible hunters and I think most hunters dislike them as much if not more than antihunters or nonhunters.
As far as the original topic of this thread, I would never stop hunting for the sake of a woman. I am a hunter, its part of who I am and what I enjoy. If I change to be accepted by anyone I wouldn't be true to myself or a perspective mate. I would be living a lie and that won't happen. I don't think a person is bad for not wanting to be with a hunter if it bothers them to a point that it would cause a problem in a relationship. We all have our preferences, its not a matter of right or wrong, its a matter of whats right for us as individuals. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 10:20:51 AM | I agree very much with The Devils Advocate:
I am now a vegan, have been for many many years,..I do not use animal products in any way if I can help it. I am not a hypocrite. I support animal charities now, maybe hoping to absolve some of my earlier sins. i think of it as sinful to kill a creature, especially one that is killed for sport.. or as some sort of outlet for aggression.
I would never be able to date a man that hunts,.. I know there is a callousness about a man that can look down the barrell of a gun and take a life without blinking an eye. To me it's as simple as making a choice: choice number 1 means that you use a creature in some way, causing it to suffer unnecessarily, choice number 2 means that you don't. It's impossible to do no harm at all, but we can try to minimise the harm we do and try to maximise the positive things we do as well. As a child I used to hang out at kennels for fox hunting and walk and play with the terriers and hound puppies and so on. I never went hunting and always saw it as being violent and bloodthirsty - but I actually see hunting as far less bad an activity than meat eating. As one old huntsman explained to me "the fox lives by the sword and dies by the sword". He hunts and is hunted: there is a fairness in it at some primitive level (although I think we, as humans, should be able to do better than operate at such a primitive level). A sheep or a cow does not hunt, and the way we treat these animals is despicable.
All things being equal I think that drinking dairy milk is potentially worse than riding with the hunt -- the fox lives free and his end is like the ends he causes -- sudden and bloody; the cow is bred to be an unhealthy mutant milk bag and is treated as such its entire short life, caged and tortured before being sent to a slaughterhouse. But all things are not equal: people are so removed and so unconscious of the consequences of the choices they make, I cannot look at someone who is unaware of the story behind their Mars bar and see them as having blood on their hands in the same way as the person who looks at a living creature and in that moment, chooses to take its life, purely for his own entertainment. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 11:19:42 AM |
I'm also not interested in the premature judgments of people who, most likely, don't understand hunters.
There is nothing to "understand" about hunters. They are psychopaths driven by deep seated insecurity, low self esteem and blood lust to make up for that.
The truth is that most hunters enjoy the chase and the feeling of conquest. Many won't talk about it because non-hunters who don't understand it get upset. Nevertheless, it's true. There is an elation and adrenaline surge connected with the activity. Aggression.
Conquest ? You sneak up on the unintelligent, the unarmed and shoot with firearms from far away. Then you parade the corpse as if it were a trophy for a huge achievement.
If you want to feel 'conquest' and HAVE B*LLS TO BE A REAL MAN, volunteer in the army, pick up a rifle , even don a bullet proof vest if you like, and patrol the streets of Fallujah, Ramadi or Samara where you will have a real opportunity of making conquests. Then we will see how much bravado you have.
People like you are a disgrace to real men. Coward. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 11:30:42 AM | Look at 'RexKing' here! "King-King". King of Kings. 
"Rex", I'm not even going to debate you. I stand by what I said concerning hunters. NatureVision's posts concerning hunting are sine qua non, so I don't think any more needs to be said about it. I'll grant you that going into the military is an honorable vocation, and those guys are to be respected. Hunting is a worthy, respectable activity as well.
"Rex", you would be taken seriously if you could hold back the name-calling and just debate the topics like most of the rest of us. Best of luck to you! | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 12:03:14 PM | Wow- once again, I stirred a real pot full of emotions. I recently returned from a hunting trip. While this posting is going to be over- analyzed, picked apart, and mis- understood, I may reach one rational soul who is undecided, or possibly, anti-hunting oriented.
My daughter (20 yrs old) and I have been planning this trip since April. We drew licenses in our state, and planned our departure, meal list, etc. She has been hunting with me since she was 14. We invited friends of the family, and the Dad brought his teenaged boys. Prior to the season, everyone practiced shooting (in order to ensure a clean kill), and checked equipment, vehicles, and other gear. During the 9 days we were gone, one of the boys passed up 4 opportunites to take a deer. No sweat, we continued to hunt. In the evenings, we would huddle around the table in our travel trailer, laughing, eating dinner, and telling stories. We worked hard, got cold a time or two, enjoyed the outdoors, spoke with other hunters, and watched a myriad of other animals. My daughter and I shared many special moments together during this time (NO, I won't be elaborating, its personal), and we grew much closer.
On the last morning, she killed a buck deer, and I was with her for that experience. When we reached the deer, she handed me the rifle and sat down and cried for a while. I unloaded her rifle, sat next to her and just held her. When she was done, she wiped her eyes, and without a word grabbed her knife for the field dressing chore. You see, in my family, the children learned to take care of their own game. She field dressed the deer more expertly than some men, and we dragged the deer to the pickup. I knew the words would come when the time was right, and she just said "Dad, thank you for being with me today". That cannot be replaced with a vacation to Hawaii.
I suppose we might have been able to grow closer with a trip together to a new city, but I can guarantee you that we would never had had such deep experiences. There is something about sharing the quiet peacefulness of the mountains that is incomparable. My father taught me the value in hunting when it comes to relating to your children. I am passing that same tradition down to my children.
Would this have been the same without killing an animal? Yes, because we share a saying in our family "there is a reason its called hunting, not killing". If it was all about killing, there would be no "hunt" necessary, no challenge, no work invested, no need to search the mountains, no reason to sharpen one's shooting skills, and finally, no stalk.
During a hunt, you can watch a pine marten (have you ever seen one outside the zoo?) scramble up a tree. You can photograph a mother moose and her calf as they circle you, trying to figure out what you are. You can watch a woodpecker drill into a tree above your head. If you are awake, you can spot a black bear sneaking along a hillside, looking for bugs under a rock. One might argue that all that can be done without a gun in your hands. It CAN be done, yes, but how many people have the drive and patience to sit in one spot for hours while these things transpire? Hunting provides the primal urge to wait, to stalk, to explore, and to pursue game.
There is so much more to hunting, some of which has been covered here. There are sights, smells, sounds, and experiences that can't be replicated on a simple hike. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 12:29:55 PM | Well, Op, i beleive you may just have shot yourself in the foot with your own hunting rifle with that last post.
i really tried to approach this thread with a reasonable and calm viewpoint,.. but now you've done it.
Has it ever occurred to you that those younger lads may not WANT to kill animals? Did it occur to you that your daughter cried and was upset because she didnt want to kill that deer? she only did it to gain your love and approval. hunting is your choice,.. but you're forcing this lifestyle on your children. the are hardly going to defy you and say they dont want to do it are they? I suppose you're happy now that your daughter has crossed the rubicon and now has blood on her hands? I imagine that it gives you immense satisfaction that even after crying, she still wanted your approval enough to pick up the knife and butcher the animal? How proud you must be of your own manipulativeness.
You're an emotionally and mentally abusive man IMO Sir. you've just showed how callous men who hunt really are. you're a sick man. How you can talk of the beauties of nature and wildlife in the same context as blasting one of those creatures to death is BEYOND hypocritical.
You disgust me. DA | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 2:36:40 PM | The more I see some of these anti-hunting replies, the more convinced I am that hunting/fishing may have some aggression-management aspects as well. I've hunted with, worked with, and been around a lot of hunters, and what I've invariably seen is calm, level-headed, well-balanced, focused people who don't get their undies in a bunch. Being able to tolerate different points of view without going apeshit is a big part of what I'm talking about. If you can't keep it together here on a forum, I don't know how some of you are doing it in real life. Based on what I've seen on this thread (and to an extent in real life), I would hope for better from the anti-hunting crowd.
Hunting is a legally sanctioned activity with a long tradition. It's not going anywhere. That's the reality of things. I would suggest that some of you learn more about it instead of railing against those who partake in it and enjoy it. Disagreement is fine, but the frenzied responses aren't going to strengthen your arguments. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 3:12:05 PM | rexking do you have any idea of how many hunter have served in the armed forces? From your desciption of what hunters do its obvious you know not of what you speak. Another ignorant statement from an anithunter who doesn't have a clue.
I am grateful for one thing though. You aren't a hunter, people with your type of disposition in my opinion shouldn't have a weapon in their hands as a hunter or as a service man. I am a man, not a coward in anyway and I don't have to question someone elses manhood via a thread on a web site.
Have a good day | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 3:59:45 PM | I wouldn't say agression management............. but stress management.
The buzz of business/civilization melts away and is replaced the wind drifting through the leaves. The bustle of traffic with careful tentitve steps, the blaring radio with the music of running water. Instead of trash you see beauty and instead of anger you see harmony. The compexity of "The Grind" seems silly in the simplicity of natures way of doing what we do in civilization.
There isn't need for aggression, you must simply take your place in the cycle | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 5:11:09 PM | welcome back OP!! so glad to see you returned finally. makes sense you were on your treasured hunting trip, accounting for your absence.
as you can see, before you returned here, there were 285 I think posts on this quite amazing thread you started....illuminating much light on many, I think. it allowed those with passion (so many, if not all) to speak their minds as honestly as they could and also, one can see, how it got quite heated, and yet, by the end, many had calmed down and expressing their feelings and beliefs much more sensitively and carefully - to really speak their truth without throwing in the excessive exaggerations that only seem to result in causing a whole bunch more anger and reactivity.
anyway, i just wish to say a couple of things in response to this part of your post -
During a hunt, you can watch a pine marten (have you ever seen one outside the zoo?) scramble up a tree. You can photograph a mother moose and her calf as they circle you, trying to figure out what you are. You can watch a woodpecker drill into a tree above your head. If you are awake, you can spot a black bear sneaking along a hillside, looking for bugs under a rock. One might argue that all that can be done without a gun in your hands. It CAN be done, yes, but how many people have the drive and patience to sit in one spot for hours while these things transpire? Hunting provides the primal urge to wait, to stalk, to explore, and to pursue game.
There is so much more to hunting, some of which has been covered here. There are sights, smells, sounds, and experiences that can't be replicated on a simple hike.
I understand and appreciate your love of nature you clearly express here, but please know, those of us who love nature absolutely have the patience to sit for hours, to walk carefully, really seeing and being in nature with total awe and respect - the same as you speak of here. So, for those who are aware, there are no simple hikes.
Just another point to say, wow - see - there are so many more areas of connection between the hunter and the non- hunter. Thank you again for waking me up to these - the real treasure I have received from this thread. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 6:18:12 PM | DA...do you really believe that as parents we would force our children to do something they disliked that much? My daughter can tell you of the times weve shared together outdoors...the experiences of being there Seeing what nature actually is. And she doesnt hunt, doesnt have any desire to. Absolutely not a problem for us.
Really cant understand how you can say that. Reread OPs post of the boy who passed up taking a shot, there was a reason he passed.
" I hunt not to kill,but kill to showI have hunted" dont recall the author's name right this minute In other words the pursuit is whats important,not the climax. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 8:10:28 PM | "You need to hunt something that can shoot back at you to really classify yourself as a hunter. You need to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Not just go out there and shoot Bambi."
-Gov. Jesse Ventura
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/6/2007 11:27:11 PM | "You need to hunt something that can shoot back at you to really classify yourself as a hunter. You need to understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Not just go out there and shoot Bambi."
-Gov. Jesse Ventura"
First off there have been people who went to war and got shot at that hunt. Second its not a war we fight when we take to the woods and hunt. You don't just go out and shoot Bambi, its not Disney. Gov Jesse Ventura, a former wrestler, has had his head smashed too many times for me to take merit in anything he says.
Refering to Jesse "THE BODY" Ventura "Later in his term, however, a decline in the economy and a growing unwillingness by the public to accept some of his more controversial behaviors and statements led to a sharp decline in his popularity. Citing undue media scrutiny into the lives of his family he chose not to run for re-election in 2002" He was elected narrowly the first time he ran and people grew tired of him because his comments and views so when the going got tough he got going in a different direction.
People make analogies about hunting, comparing it to what Hitler did and cartoon characters. Some people think all you do is go out there, wait for a deer, blast the hell out of it, then go get drunk and brag to your buddies. This image is etched in their minds. If this were what hunting was about I would have quit after the 1st season I went.
Luckly for everyone, including the antihunters and hunters alike, there are people far more educated on the enviroment and ecology that help establish hunting laws and regulations. If radical people made the rules this would be a terrible world. If people who actually were radical on either side of this issue controlled things either there would be way to many animals or none at all. Everyone should be thankful neither is this case. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/7/2007 2:13:48 AM | Devils Advocate wrote:
Well, Op, i beleive you may just have shot yourself in the foot with your own hunting rifle with that last post.
i really tried to approach this thread with a reasonable and calm viewpoint,
Being a Hunter and growing up on a farm, living off of the land, and enjoying a rural lifestyle I think the OP accurately caught the essence of hunting with his post of his hunting vacation with his daughter. A lot of the hunting heritage involves family and times like this spent with family. I still hunt with my 2 brothers, 2 of my nephews and my father who is in his late 70's.
DA is showing that it is very clear that she is NOT looking at this thread with a reasonable and calm view point when she ASSUMES that she knows what is going through this (the OP's daughter) womans mind. The end of the hunt is never the high point of the hunt. It is everything that leads up to the point of taking this Deer. In fact, if you will look back, many hunters on here have stated that a hunts success is not judged by whether you fill your tag or not, but being able to do what you love. AND as the OP's daughter, I know many women that share in this lifestyle.
I am part Indian, Chippewa Indian to be exact. Part of the Indian lore is giving blessing and respect to the spirit of the animal that you have taken. If you're going to believe the Hollywood rendition of hunting, then also believe the scenes where you have seen how an Indian Brave would pray over the fallen carcass of an animal he had just taken to feed and clothe his family, many times referring to this animal as Brother Deer.
While most hunters no longer depend on the success of their hunt for their families survival, most hunters I know rely upon meat taken from a hunt to supplement their families food bill. Growing up on a small Fruit farm in SW MI as a child, venison was a very important part of our diet and went a long way to stretch a dollar. Beef was a very rare part of our diet. Most of our meat was either venison or rabbit, chickens we raised, or fish that we caught.
Just because you don't understand hunting, or just beacause a person was raised differently than you or lives a different life style than you does not make theirs wrong and yours right!!! It just makes it different!! | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/7/2007 2:55:42 PM | ahhh. nightowl. thank you so much for writing this...finally i hear the words i've been waiting to see - if anyone here would mention how respect for the animal who has given its life to you and your family is honored. I see you have it from your words
I am part Indian, Chippewa Indian to be exactPart of the Indian lore is giving blessing and respect to the spirit of the animal that you have taken.
this does not discount any other hunter here, for i suspect all have respect for the deer. it is just that you spoke it out loud.
your whole post rings of truth and you're right - just because we all have different upbringings, lifestyles, beliefs, convictions, inner truths and different ways of communicating our beliefs, no one is any more wrong or right than another.
so it seems the respect we show the deer also reflects the respect we show each other. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/7/2007 4:49:17 PM | Well I love target shooting and think it's a great sress reliever! Not for everyone I guess..
I didn't read any of the posts here just responded to the title. So I don't know where this is going or gone! | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/7/2007 5:21:20 PM | I'm not going to read 200 pages or whatever of posts, I'm just going to ANSWER the question asked.
For this woman, NO, guns and hunting are NOT turn offs. I have personally taken a couple of bucks back in the day. I still own a couple of guns, though I haven't hunted in awhile. I grew up in a hunting/outdoor culture. I have nieces who are young adult/teenagers and they hunt, not only with guns but with bows, and are sucessful. My mother hunted.
Conversely, I am very much a person who loves and respects animals. I won't take a shot that migh only wound. Let me take this controversy off in yet another direction and say I AM opposed to baiting. I believe that putting out piles of apples, carrots, sugar beets to lure deer plays a large part in the spread of disease in deer herds and thus to domestic animals.
So,while I can't speak for any other women, guns and hunting are NOT a turn off for me.
Cindy O | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 11/7/2007 5:48:53 PM | Eddie Hitler
Damn! I liked the idea that I reminded people of Granny Clampett! That ol' gal was nobody's fool!
Of course another one of my female role models is the Frutcake Lady on Jay Leno, but I don't know if she's a hunter...LOL most her comments are dead on, and when she gets p*ssed at a question I don't think she'd NEED a gun to kill something \
Cindy O | |
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