| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 2:41:30 AM | ^ Most people that hunt for sport hunt DANGEROUS animals.
In my limited experience (remember, I'm not a hunter) people who hunt things like rabbit, deer, and duck do so in order to eat rabbit, deer, and duck.
While most places don't allow you to hunt the animals that are really dangerous (because some of them are endangered), some people do it anyhow.
As to whether the animals can shoot back.... no.... but I've heard of people who go bow hunted being charged by large deer. Just like you occasionally hear about a grizzly taking out someone who was in the woods looking for something else.
Fishing for sport is something that you hear about far more often 'cause you can do it without killing the animal. We don't want to catch the fish... we just want to make it late for something. (I stole that joke... also, I don't fish.)
I would tend to agree with some of the decenters in spirit on one fact- If you're walking around in the woods like Bevis and Butthead going, "Heh heh heh, shooting animals is cool" ...well, you probably shouldn't be hunting. Hell, you probably shouldn't own a gun.
But in this age where mankind as a species has become highly specialized- most people have a set job, and can only do a few small things for themselves that are outside of there realm- shouldn't we value the people who can do the things that our ancestors did in addition to what they do daily? Heaven forbid we have some sort of social calamity that deprives us of our modern conventions- many of us would not be able to function if we had to do EVERYTHING on our own.
In conclusion- I eat meat because I like it. The system that raises MOST grocery store animals is horrendously cruel, and I support anyone who is willing to provide themselves an alternative. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 4:50:01 AM | | That is total BS brother. Deer hunters even have taxidermist make the deers head into a proud murder trophy for the killer/hunter. Deer are not dangrerous animals. You write half a page of bogus to make your way of thinking seem so appropriate, you are a killer in disguise......Earl | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 6:34:36 AM | | We have hunting time here to keep the population down. Guess what?? It does not work .There have been numerous times that the deer were shot, injured and ran out in the road ,only to get hit by a car. I am tired of calling the cops to shoot them. I also have no problem paying extra in taxes if it were to vaccinate the animals for birth control.It worked before, it'll work again. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 7:16:55 AM | I agree with some of the folks against hunting,the ones that just want the heads,these people are NOT hunters, real hunters only kill for the meat .As to the "murdered animals" head being put on the wall,would you rather we just throw it away? In away it is a way of honoring the animal.It takes ALOT of skill to hunt and get a BIG buck.To the ones that think deer are these cute little defenseless animals,maybe you should do a little googling,a full grown male deer in rut has been known to attack people along with elk and moose,and their hooves have sharp edges also .Their antlers aren't on their heads for balance darlin or just so "us" hunters can put them on the wall. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 7:31:57 AM | So, OP ... did you get your answer yet? Guns/hunting are a turn-off for some, some can tolerate, some are turned-on by them, and some have their own guns and are out there hunting themselves!
I think opinions/feelings about hunting&guns should maybe be discussed on the first date by the looks of it! People of the same mentality should stick together on this one... unless they are willing to change their whole lifestyle for the other... | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 9:23:11 AM | I think the problem with most anti hunters is that they don't understand what hunting really is. I have been hunting for 20 years and in that time I have harvested, not murdered or killed, a total of 4 deer. For a true hunter its not about killing or being able to go out and shoot your weapon whether it be a gun, bow or even a slingshot. The meat gets used in most cases, if not by themselves by people who will. I know one hunter that donates a deer to a needy family every year.
Those who think its not humane have never seen a deer that has starved to death because the population exceeded the food source in an area. Hunting is about managing the resource and without hunters this couldn't be done pragmatically. The deer herd is monitored in most states so that the rules and regulations for licensing will control the population. Without fees collected from hunters the monies used to control the herd would be taken from the taxes collected from everyone. Deer licenses pay for more than just managing the deer here in Michigan. It helps maintain the wilderness areas that so many non-hunters enjoy as well.
There is also the economic impact hunters have in certain areas. Here in Michigan there are several areas that depend on hunters and fishermen for a great deal of their revenue. the average hunters actually spends more money enjoying their sport than if they went to a store and bought meat.
Those who think hunting is cruel should remember the game harvested was free to roam and do the things that are natural. The next time you are eating that steak, chicken or any other meat think about how it got there. It was bred and raised for one reason, it was never a free creature or even had a chance to do what would have been natural. I have nothing against producing meat for the masses, in fact I think its necessary, but which way of harvesting meat it more cruel? | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 9:36:16 AM | I see no difference between the industrialized cruelty of slaughterhouses and hunting, except for the "sport" label attached to the latter. Neanderthals stalked and killed animals for food because they had to. Many times I read accounts of how hunting is necessary to "manage" animal populations. Nature manages us, it's not the other way around. Has been that way for millions of years......We all know that animals have been hunting each other for that same period of time as well. Predation, starvation, and disease are unfortunate but they are nature's way of ensuring survival of the fittest. And - we know what happens when bacteria in a petri dish outstrip their food sources.
I'm sure the OP doesn't need any more responses to this issue as it seems to be done to death here. Personally, I don't date hunters; say so in my profile upfront . To be perfectly candid, I have known hunters and have found them to be lacking in compassion on some level or another. Most hunters I have encountered want to avoid taking responsibility for any pain that they cause and usually try to trivialize it. Until animal death occurs, there is pain as there is a central nervous system. Pain exists, either until healing or death, whichever comes first.
I don't really follow the argument that hunting is a sport or a tradition. Hockey is a SPORT with equally matched teams. Don't like my hockey analogy? Try another sport that you do like.
I try to live a cruelty-free life. I am happy that hunters would avoid dating me. I am pleased to be selectively screened out by them. I am the final arbiter of what I will accept in a partner as are each of you reading this posting.
**And on an aside, could y'all try and keep Ted Nugent in the US? We up here in Canada are sick to death of him on every level! LOL
Be well everyone....... | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 10:01:53 AM | Hunting is most definitely a turn-off for me. I view hunting as being inherently cruel...people who get pleasure out of killing animals disturb me greatly.
A couple of weeks ago, I worked in an office with a very handsome and charming man who was never anything but nice to me. However, I would never even have considered dating him, as deer hunting seemed to be a part of his identity. He would brag about it whenever he had the chance. It thoroughly disgusted me (though, of course, I never let on that it did!). | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 11:15:53 AM | CheshireCatalyst I looked at and read your profile after reading your post.
I see nothing wrong with the fact that you choose not to date hunters. You seem to paint all hunters with the same color (or colour if you prefer) on your brush.
You said;
"We all know that animals have been hunting each other for that same period of time as well. Predation, starvation, and disease are unfortunate but they are nature's way of ensuring survival of the fittest" We humans are animals, by your logic we should hunt all animals at will to ensure survival of the fittest. The deer herd in Michigan was
near extinction at the begining of the 20th century. Should it have been left alone? Was it wrong for man to help it survive?
"I try to live a cruelty-free life." Does the horse you own ask you to put a saddle on its back because it wants to go for a stroll with you in control? Horses were wild and then
domesticated, maybe they should all be set free so they are controlled by "nature's way of ensuring survival of the fittest."
You're right about hockey being a sport. (yes I know the difference between your, you're, their, there, they're, too, to, two,then and than even though I'm a "Neanderthal" hunter) The teams aren't evenly matched though, thats why they play to see who wins the Stanley Cup. Its suvival of the fittest at the end of the season.
"And on an aside, could y'all try and keep Ted Nugent in the US? We up here in Canada are sick to death of him on every level! LOL" Even being a hunter I don't care for him either. If I had my choice I would send him some where far away. Unlike you I can't speak for all Americans though. Having been born in Canada and still have relatives there perhaps I'll will see what they think of Nugent
We can find faults in what everyone does if we look close enough, we need to understand there are times that we truely don't understand why someone does what they do. It doesn't make them bad or wrong, it makes them different.
Be well and have fun riding your horse!!!!! | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 11:28:17 AM | You know i can totally understand a vegetarian or a vegan being against hunting and calling it disgusting and cruel ,but i have a hard time with someone telling me how hunting is wrong while munching on a chicken salad sandwich. I just can't stand hyporcrisy . If you believe that killing an animal and eating it is wrong then at least stand up for your beliefs and stop eating meat.
Good one ugly old john. I wonder how much that horse likes having his middle cut in half by a saddle and that steel piece in his mouth? | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 12:13:28 PM | I have been state licensed Taxidermist in Michigan for more than 20 years, and have hunted for more than 30 years. I can tell you that the ENTIRE harvested animal is used and none goes to waste or is thrown out. EVERY state that I know of has laws against leaving waste for the mere purpose of "Trophy Hunting".
Every hunter than I know uses the meat that they get, or is given to a non-hunter that enjoys eating venison.
The only part of that animal that is used for the shoulder mount is the antlers and the hide from the shoulder up. All of the meat is able to be consumed.
I find it humorous to read the comments of people on here who's only contact with wildlife is on TV in their living room. Many of you choose to childishly call people names on here to hide your ignorance and to cover up your inabilities to even posses the simplest of debating skills for someone that holds a different opinion than you do.
One poster even wet as far as say ther is no differenece between a persons life and an animals life! That is absolutely ridiculous!!
In my 20 years as Taxidermist and Hunter I have seen things that I guarantee people in the city have not. How humane do you think Mother Nature is?? Do you even know how a predator kills its prey?? Have you ever seen predator attack in the wild?? I can tell you by seeing it several times that they begin eating their "kill" before they are dead. Have you ever heard a Rabbit or Deer scream with it's last breathe while this is happening??? Do you even know what this sounds like?? There is nothing in hunting that even comes close this.
You should get off of the paved footpath or bicycle trail in your neighborhood park, or turn off that Walt Disney movie before calling the hunters on here childish names, and actually try to go out and see how cruel nature can actually be.
.....and to the birth control for deer.....who are you going to get to shoot these deer with these drugs?? Hunters?? These are the very people you don't know but choose to hate. Your other anti-hunting friends??? Right....they'd be lucky if they don't shoot each other!!
If you think that each one can be located , and shot then you know absolutey nothing about the nature of deer. If it were that easy the hunting seasons would be alot shorter than they are.
How are you going to identify the ones you have "shot" or would you just shoot eveything you see, in theory and make them become extinct because they can no longer reproduce. This in your way of thinking would be better than hunting. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 12:40:02 PM | Seriously... having a stuffed head does not mean that the meat of the animal was not consumed.
Deer aren't dangerous? Just last week I saw a news story where a man was killed by deer, During rutting season they can be very aggressive...
I'm not sure what my diet would be like if I had to kill my own food. I haven't fired a gun since I was a young teenager, and even then it was small rifles for target shooting. I have a feeling that if it was the only source of meat I had I would still be able to get meat... but I'd eat a lot less meat...
While I disagree with the violent "meet is murder" camp, I at least can admire their conviction. I think that Denis Leary was right when he said that too many people just want to save the cute animals.
I don't understand why- if killing animals for food is wrong- that somehow killing plants for food is better... I think that it's just that we can see animals emote. I'm not sure that we give fruits and vegetables enough credit. Didn't anybody see Attack of the Killer Tomatoes!? | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 1:26:44 PM | MI Niteowl
"You should get off of the paved footpath or bicycle trail in your neighborhood park, or turn off that Walt Disney movie before calling the hunters on here childish names, and actually try to go out and see how cruel nature can actually be."
This is true for many of the people who don't understand what hunting is about. But many of them are enjoying the trails and woodlands that us hunter are reponsible for with the purchasing of our licenses.
They don't understand the managemnt aspect and what true hunters do. I think they have heard too many stories about poachers and irresponsible hunters that give all of us a bad name to some. They should talk to a farmer who lost 20-30% of his crops because of the deer and other wild life so they can explain to him why no one should harvest these animals.
Some people just don't understand what its about and don't care to learn. Personally I don't understand Opera but that doesn't mean I think people who enjoy it are wasting their time,money and feel they are idiots. If I found interest in it and took the time to learn about I would understand, I might not like it, but I would understand none the less. Having a closed mind isn't good in my opinion. | |
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Kynnie
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Joined: 4/8/2007
Msg: 116 | |
| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 1:36:38 PM | Most people that hunt for sport hunt DANGEROUS animals.
I already answered this thread with my thoughts previously at #82 but I read this and just wanted to say....
Dangerous animals are not dangerous animals when they are in their own environment.
Dont go into their environment.
ie. you dont run around the streets shooting at indiscrimate people, but if someone comes into your home with intentions of doing harm, you'll defend. Thats wat animals do.
If its a matter of euthanising or relocating them when they come in urban areas, thats one thing.
But u cant go out into the woods with the mentality that u get to shoot them because you entered their territory & so therefore u have a right bcos they're a threat.
Thats just justification for bloodlust. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 3:44:28 PM | | I killed a deer weekend before last. I cut off his antlers and threw them on the shelf with a pile of them. I am eating part of his shoulder for dinner. I have a picture of the two of us on my profile. I probably won't get many messages from vegans. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 4:17:28 PM | #116-
In the area in which I was raised the deer population was often high enough that the animals would often wander into what you would describe as human territory. Obviously shooting off weapons in a residential area is a bad idea-- but it seems as though you're suggesting that it is only valid to shoot animals when they enter our environment. (Either that or you're purely using environment as an excuse to never kill animals, which isn't an option for the majority of the human species.)
In many places in Midwestern America human expansion is pushing against animal habitat. There's a lot that's not that developed. Hunting, in many cases, is allowed in order to thin the population down enough that we're not hitting bucks with Buicks.
You can call it blood lust if you like. I've certainly eaten my share of meat. I can't claim to have killed anything larger than bumble bees and spiders though, and if I had to guess the last time I fired a rifle was at a tin can when I was 13.
The majority of the human species eats meat. I'm not going to discuss the morality of that. I'm also not going to discuss the morality of pulling a potato (another living creature) out of the ground, sticking in a dark area (where it sometimes will bud roots, reminding us that it still alive), boiling it in water, and mashing it up.
I would argue that hunting seems like one of the more humane options for getting meat in places where factory farming is the primary source of meat. The other alternative is organic meat, which isn't as readily available and is more expensive.
The facts as they stand for me: People are going to eat meat. (Whether you want them to or not, whether it offends your sensibilities or not.) The animal might as well get to live as happy and full a life as possible-- rather than shut up in some cage someplace.
God.... all this and I don't even hunt. We might as well do what they did in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe and breed a cow that actually WANTS to be eaten. ("My rump should be tender, I've been exercising it.") | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 4:36:39 PM | The deer population does get too high, sure mother nature will take care of it, but Dieing from lime desease or some other virus is a heck of alot worse than being culled by a hunter, Quike and the meat is not wasted, I do not know of a single hunter that kills a deer just for it's rack. It is a bonus but the pleasure comes when you throw a steak on the barbie and enjoy your success.
Besides how much protien is in a stick of celery?? | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 4:43:28 PM | | #116 Kynnie, you are in Australia if I read profile correctly and you judge a hunter. You stated in your profile you like camping and fishing and gourmet barbequing. Can you spell HYPOCRIT in Australia for me? Its spelled Kynnie. If you pull the mouth out of an innocent fish with a razor sharp hook shame of you. If you BBQ a poor animal shame on you no matter how it was killed. This is the problem with all the Animal Rights people in PETA the Humane Society or just individually, you look far enough and you find they are a hypocrit. They all use leather, eat meat, have a dog or cat that eats meat or something. The reality of life, something dies for something to live, its that simple and there is not easy death all organisms want to live on. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 4:55:01 PM |
That is total BS brother. Deer hunters even have taxidermist make the deers head into a proud murder trophy for the killer/hunter. Deer are not dangrerous animals. You write half a page of bogus to make your way of thinking seem so appropriate, you are a killer in disguise......Earl
Well..I am the Taxidermist doing the "murdering trophies". I hunt, I eat the meat as do my clients, some feeding their families with it. We also respect the animals we shoot and consider a mounted animal as a piece of art, and not something to hang a gun on. Trophies don't have to be record bucks, but a kids first deer from a hunt enjoyed with his mother or father. I and many of my clients contribute to Ducks Unlimited, the Wild Turkey Federation...and I for one,,the Humane society so they will have money to help out the wildlife and pets all you animal lovers seem to defend but could care less if a forest is cleared for your homes at the cost of habitat, or how many pets are abandoned or abused. Hunting, the use of animal skins..etc...has gone on since we have been here, you don't like it??? Who gives a shit. | |
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Kynnie
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Joined: 4/8/2007
Msg: 123 | |
| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 5:14:39 PM | RE: Msg #118 and #120
Before you start mouthing off at what I posted and calling me a hypocrit, please read my post again at #116
I already answered this thread with my thoughts previously at #82 but I read this and just wanted to say....
and goto my reference at post #82
I see actively entering whats otherwise an animals environment and then labelling them as dangerous when that is what they naturally will react to having their territory invaded...when you choose to be there ...a bloodsport.
Im not against hunting....Im against bloodlust and bloodsport and I dont care if its not agreed, thats how I feel about it.
Get it right before you make public displays of idiocy. | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 5:25:56 PM |
I probably won't get many messages from vegans.
Wow, great idea! Think that'd work for me too? 
Remember that John Denver song, "Thank God I'm A Country Boy"?
Well here's a better version..."Thank God I'm A Carnivore".
ok, sorry, it's Halloween - gotta be a little weird.
Every hunter that I know uses the meat that they get, or is given to a
non-hunter that enjoys eating venison.
Yes Yes Yes! And who was that that said hunters are mean people?! Absolute nonsense! | |
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| Are guns/ hunting a turn off for most women?
Posted: 10/31/2007 6:04:39 PM | Kynnie, Are you saying we should stay home and not enjoy the great outdoors, Hunting season is only a few months of the year, I enjoy the bush year round. When I see a Deer in off hunting season, I enjoy just watching them. Same with all the other animals. Traditionally we hunt, have for a very long time. My father met a Bear last year, had a barrel stuck around his neck, Was a big bear he would have helped if he could, bear ended up drowning in a river. Dad found out the next day.
My point is the majority of hunters, are decent people, I'f you don't like then don't get involved with one, I'm sure they cull #'s of kangarooos' in austrailia, that go to waste.. | |
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