| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/4/2007 2:24:46 PM | arieann:
I dare you to do the same thing, or one of you start it and the other post claiming your pride with your race and sexuality. I will be very shocked if you do it.
I have to say it's an interesting experiment, and one I'm VERY tempted to accept.
As for gay protesters, they have the right to do so, just as the Churches have the right to preach what they will. It's called freedom of religion, not freedom FROM religion. Your neighbor has the right to believe what they will just the same as you do.
And to say that someone's a member of the KKK because they're white is just as informed as saying someone is a member of the Black Panthers because they're black. Black or white, gay or straight, Christian or Atheist, we all have the right to be who we are and to believe what we wish to believe. That's what this country was founded on.
With all these freedoms though, there have to be boundaries. Your freedoms have to end where they impede on someone else's freedoms. Such as the gay protesters outside the church, they wouldn't want the church to come picket in front of their house. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/4/2007 2:58:55 PM | this doomed U.S.A.---------I agree 100%
Jews-- (the butt of jokes and ridicule)
blond jokes, women jokes, black jokes, white jokes,gay jokes, political jokes,-- everyone is subject to jokes.
If you can't see the difference between phelps hate speech and a peaceful protest there is nothing furthur to discuss.-- what did he do to not be peaceful except piss off certain groups.
The American Jews are the real Nazis ---then why are white people blamed for it. You are the first I have ever heard blame someone other than a white person. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/4/2007 3:22:47 PM | | Homosexuals and Jews dominated Nazi Germany...just as they now dominate this doomed U.S.A....The Jews now wander the earth despised, smitten with moral and spiritual blindness by a divine judicial stroke...And god has smitten Jews with a certain unique madness, whereby they are an astonishment of heart, a proverb, and a byword (the butt of jokes and ridicule) among all peoples whither the Lord has driven and scattered them...Jews, thus perverted, out of all proportion to their numbers energize the militant sodomite agenda...The American Jews are the real Nazis (misusers and abusers of governmental power) who hate God and the rule of law." That is phelps words not mine. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/4/2007 6:42:54 PM | | That is phelps words not mine.-- I apoligize, I thought they were your words. I was wondering why you were telling me about Germany and Nazis. I said in my post 66---"I believe they are a bunch of brainwashed people led by the pastor". Which I hope you understand I absolutly do not agree with him or his followers, asI have mentioned in other post/ But, they are his beliefs. He has just as much right to advocate his as anyone else. He says God hates sinners. No, God loves sinners. If being Gay is a sin(not saying it is) a church should welcome them. Sames as drug users/dealers,whores, thifs. Church is for sinners. As God/Jesus said"All is welcome into the house of the Lord". I think he leads an organization as what we call in the mental hospital as someone who is pre-occupied with religion. That means when they go to extream measures, so bad that they screw up what is meant by Gods word. Alot of normal religious people believe being homosexual is a sin. The Bible also says spread Gods word. So I feel he is attempting this, as he has the right to do, but in the pre-occupied with religion way. Basically, he is mentally ill. I think he needs to get help, then continue his freedom of speech of religion or spreading Gods word in a more civilized way. The same way Gay activist protest churches or other organizations. Now all this God crap I spoke of,please dont think they are my words because I hate God as much as he hates me. I was only repeating what I learned in church which now I know all religions is nothing but a colt.Butthat will go under another thread. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/4/2007 8:01:52 PM | After reading some of what Phelps has said, no wonder people consider him a madman. He's a sociopath with a sick mind. Anyone who spews that kind of hate and disrupts a funeral is definitely a nutcase. Someone like that should be hospitalized and treated for his psychiatric problems.
It's one thing to not agree with homosexuality and to keep that private but it's another to spread vicious hatred in such a nasty manner. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/4/2007 8:13:56 PM |  That is the best post I have seen in this thread! 
He's a sociopath with a sick mind. Anyone who spews that kind of hate and disrupts a funeral is definitely a nutcase. Someone like that should be hospitalized and treated for his psychiatric problems.
I was glad to see this verdict comes across because I hope it wakes up churches as to their internal hypocrisy and their corruption of the bible. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/4/2007 10:37:02 PM | I see many posters, speaking as a point of authority. How many googled Frank Phelps name and spent some time reading what is on the Internet about him and his family? How many posters have actually seen him/them picketing?
I do not agree with his message, but I agree with his right to speak out on his beliefs, just as everyone else has these same rights and exercises them, just as we all are doing in this thread.
I've both read several articles ref him, his family and his church and also seen them picket a solders funeral, right here in my town. They stay on public property, some distance from the church and there is more in the paper and on the TV news regarding it, than anyone attending the funeral see with their own eyes or hear with their own ears. Other than the message they bring, nothing about how they conduct themselves is out of control or disrespectful to anyone.
Just as the man who won the law suit stated......he never saw them or heard them in person, but knowing their presents was there, found just that to be tramautizing.
Frank Phelps and his family want a law suit heard by the Federal Supreme Court in regards to FREEDOM OF SPEECH......that is what is behind all of this. The more offencive they make their message, the more certainty that they will have their day in court.
BTW...what thread were you gals talking about starting that you thought no one had the guts to start? I must have missed catching it. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 2:22:07 AM | | Designingwomen, I have mentioned that I work in a mental hospital with this type of patients. Most of the time, these religious people are the ones who do the most cussing and and fighting,anong other weird things, to express their beliefs There was one man who painted a crucifix on the wall with feces. I have seen people cut themselves "because God told them to"A normal religious person has beliefs of what is a sin or not a sin, but when they make a donation to charity, I have never heard of them saying the money can not be used for any type of sinner. As far as what whisper said about them not being near the funeral and that man at the funeral said he never saw them or heard them,I had previously read that they were not at the funeral, just down the road from it so I really don't see how they won the case. I am sure it takes more than a few days to organize a protest which makes me wonder if it was a coincidence the funeral was the same day. Basically,I still feel his rights to protest was violated. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 5:36:53 AM | sassyaquarius:
His word is God, there is only one true God whether you like it or not. One day you will find out, again whether you like it or not. If you 'cant stand prejudism' then I suggest you re read your letter. Quite frankly your manners are not impressive. I wonder if you would speak to a muslim about his god like so, or is it because its fashionable to have a go at Christians? | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 10:08:38 AM | ^^ Thanks for the chuckle, lol...
I would regard ANYONE claiming exclusivity of truth in a similar fashion...
After all, there is NO such thing... whether YOU like it or not ;)
Regardless, the church has to pay and I am glad | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 1:33:45 PM | One has to have assets, to be able to collect any damages. If this case is reversed at any level, headed to the supreme court, the verdict will be set aside.
When you are dealing with a family, who has as many attorneys in it, as this family has, I would also venture to guess......they have set up their finances....to be monetary verdict proof.
They may have lost at this point in legal terms, but I doubt anyone will collect any monetary value. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 2:12:14 PM |
I will venture to guess, that when this case comes before the Supreme Court....it will be reversed.
Unlikely, at least in terms of the "free speech" issue. This is a case in tort law, not criminal law, where the plaintiff is claiming an injury by the church's actions.
Simply claiming "freedom of speech" is insufficient (even a perfectly legal act that produces an injury can be actionable under tort law), the church will have to show that the lower court (jury) erred in finding an injury to the plaintiff resulting from the actions of the church. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 4:00:30 PM | | Ok, I was zipping through the internet in this topic and Bible stuff. I found that the court must take the side of a homesexual when he is up against a man of religion. This came under fire because there is freedom of religion in which christians believe homosexuality is a sin and the they believe they are to teach these things to others. I cant say if christions are wrong, but all I found in the Bible(well, on biblegateway) is that if two people speak the same language, they can do anything. Another thing I found is sex can not be used as a weapon.Last is no one can have sex with an animal. So if anyone is horny, no need looking in the "Not all men are pigs" thread.So, I guess legally, a priest/pastor/clergy can preach of all things they believe to be sins except homosexuality. But then why cant the churches be protected against gays protesting their beliefs. If anyone else finds anything on bible sex,(that sound bad) please post it as I am curious. I far as an earlier statement of me hating God, and him hating me. I am sorry for this remark. There has been tragic things in the past year or so(death among other family issues) and I was feeling emotional about it when I made that statement. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 4:04:49 PM | | I think they should pursue criminal charges against Phelps and his ilk. What they did was equivalent to yelling "fire" in a movie theatre when there was no fire. Protesting in that manner at a funeral is unacceptable. Had they expressed their thoughts someplace else that was more appropriate, then this lawsuit would not have happened. They have the right to say what they want, but they crossed the line when they protested at the funeral. They committed a crime called trespassing. I am sure that law enforcement personnel could come up with other charges to levy against this band of fools. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 4:29:05 PM | DesigningWomen: I agree that Fred Phelps is a sociopath, but I would go farther and say that he is simply evil.
Whisper: You make a valid point about the Phelps' family assets being difficult to collect since there are so many attorneys in the family. However, Judgments for intentional torts can break through a lot of the layers of protection that conceal assets. Also Judgments for intentional torts are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. I think there is one other thing the Plaintiff has going for him--the arrogance of the Phelps family in believing that they could never be successfully sued because of the First Amendment. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 4:31:16 PM | Designingwomen, I agree a funeral is not the place to protest but I found this.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-westboro1031,0,6372049,full.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout
Points of interest.
Westboro members insisted that their demonstration, about 1,000 feet from the Catholic church, took place legally.
Snyder testified that he never saw the content of the signs as he entered and left St. John's on the day of his son's funeral. He read the signs for the first time during television news reports later that day.
So, Phelps must not have disrupted the funeral being Mr. Snyder didnt notice much about it until he saw it on the news that afternoon. Explain,please.
What you said here---What they did was equivalent to yelling "fire" in a movie theatre when there was no fire. ----The phelps family believes there is a fire. If you believe there is a fire in a theater and after you yelled fire to discover there is no fire, should you be sued. I say no, because you believed there was afire. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 5:18:46 PM | | the Phelps family acted inappropriately.---This is my beliefe as well,absolutly no arguement there, but my belief is not on trial, the Phelps family beliefs are on trial, well were on trial and soon will be again. They believe they acted appropiatly, and I understand this belief.That is not me sayingI agree.I am getting dizzy, Designing women is right and so is the Phelps family. The Phelps family have a right to their beliefs and thier beliefs are homosexuality is a sin.Their beliefs are also to protest sin. And a person, gay or straight also has a legal and civil right to be with who they want to. I guess we will all discover the truth some day, but then it maybe too late, which ever way it is. All we can do is ask God to lead us into the right direction. I must go.I am having another flashback. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 6:40:03 PM | "Regardless, the church has to pay and I am glad"
delightful.
A small price to pay for the crap it's been flaunting over the last couple of thousand years! :) | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/5/2007 11:06:01 PM | designingwoman.."They committed a crime called trespassing"
I beg to differ with you....you can not be charged with the crime of trespassing when your on public property, open to all. Everything I have read and see in this regard, has them on public right of ways, sidewalks or road ways and they do not disrupt the flow of traffic. I've never read any report of them going on private land, so this would be a void issue.
mungojoe..."This is a case in tort law, not criminal law, where the plaintiff is claiming an injury by the church's actions."
Yes, you are correct, my error in regards to this case.......But from what I have read, the Phelps family is wanting a day in the supreme court, over freedom of speech....that is why so many states have been reluctant to charge them with anything or pass laws that deter their rights to voice their opinion/beliefs.
Most everything I have seen on a state or city level have had to deal with the distance protesters can come to within, distance of the services. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/6/2007 2:39:46 AM | | I believe what whisper is sayng .Alot of the Phelps family are lawyers so they know how far they can go and still be within the law. And whisper, alot of people will not try to see orgoogle the phelps family because they are closed minded. I admit i get confused on this issue sometimes, but I am trying to see both sides and I have googled both sides.Some people like sassyaquarius, designingwomen, jed451 and some others believe in Gay rights but no one elses.That is closed minded. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/6/2007 2:54:13 AM | I believe in people's rights, gay or not. I believe in free speech. And if that phelps wants to preach his deplorable views then he can, bu in the confines of his "church".
That maintains his freedom of speech, but just like yelling "fire" in a crowded movie house is not permitted, neither should applauding at a funeral while a family is burying their young son or daughter. No place on earth for that much hate. | |
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| Church pays through the nose for its bigotry
Posted: 11/6/2007 3:31:26 AM | That church is definitely not a Church of God. They do show hatred just as much as the extreme left wingers and anachists show here in Portland, OR yearly with riots and so called parades where they pick fights with the police and damage private and public property.
They also have gay pride parades here where nudity and sexual acts happening in the street in the parade in full view of anyone living there and or visiting there. Feels good to walk along as a family with children who happen to visually get to see gays screwing and fondling each other sexually in public. NOT. That is pushing the envelope a lot, breaking the envelope to shreds more like it.
This church and their members are way off the track with what God has set out for us to do as Christians. They do not represent Christianity in any shape or form.
If they got parade permits or what ever is needed in their area they have the right to be out in public saying anything they like. They love donuts!! Yeah! They don't like pogo sticks! Yeah! What ever. Yelling fire in a theater is something completely different as it affects people's lives immediately. Especially from the times that law was made. They used to chain the doors shut to keep out the people not paying trying to get in the theaters for free across the nation. Not sure if that law or something similar is else where outside of the USA but most likely. People actually got crushed to death from pranksters yelling out Fire in over crowded and sealed in theaters.
People are dieing from fighting terrorists and not because God is punishing us as a society for homosexuals though that has happened in the past with Sodom and Ghamorrah where it was socially acceptable to roam in gangs around sunset and man rape other men that wouldn't join in with their fun freely. Complete strangers traveling sure must have gotten the shocks of their lives from that. God took care of that. Doesn't mean that we as a society are like that society. Who knows though with the way the PC Crowders push their responsibility free ideologies upon everyone anything is possible.
Rights for everyone already exist in this country. I support those rights and know we don't need Special Rights for having a sexual preference. That is not being closed minded but open minded. Being PC, if you take their crappy theories to heart, then we should be making Special Rights up for any grouping of people that like something sexually different than others. Like Special Rights for toe suckers. Special Rights for latex lovers. Special Rights for just about any sexual preference. That doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it. That is a point not seen by PC Crowders as they feel they know everything, that's being closed minded and just stupid. I have worked with and am friends with gay people and only one of them is for having Special Rights for gays. The rest don't want that, especially the marriage thing, as it stiffles their options. Civil Unions are what they want. You can write up anything in them where marriage licenses are set in stone per state. No Federal laws there. It's just another blatant example of the PC Crowders pushing their agendas on everyone, even the people they say they are helping but have never listened too. | |
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