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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 10:24:09 AM |
Ladies on this thread: Have you noticed the whiners on this thread? I must say, I waited to respond again to this thread again. Notice how particular men would comment with no regard to the actual topic, (I've tried to stay on topic, but the thread deviated, largely due to your influence) which is a very strong woman attempting to overcome atrocity (adversity, I think you mean), no matter the hand that life dealt her, I admire that by the way, yes I'm pro choice, but I have always been accepting of what the pro lifers within our country have done, they have created alternatives, with adoption alternatives, education, etc....where I do support abortion, which is not what this woman is obviously chosing to do, I also support a decision of she wanting to keep her baby, and YES,,,while the baby is INSIDE HER belly, the baby belongs to solely she. (also incorrect, the child is as much his as it is hers)
The men who have jumped off topic within this thread have made comments about equality, THEY being able to make the choice for women, THEY being able to say as the writer above me stated "OOps, my bad" and then skirt their moralistic duties as well as financial duties, without any regard for a child which was created by their actions. (You'll note that I've repeatedly decried either party deciding anything for the other.) There has been men on this thread which unfornately have been a minority, that actually spoke of responsibility and being REAL men, that pleased me, but as I stated, they have been a minority on this thread.
It's about control ladies. The sexists within this thread speak of equality, but only if it "favors" a man (Equality cannot favour anyone, by definition). This thread is enough to make any woman think twice about not protecting one's self for even within our liberalistic times at least legally anyways, we still have a very sexist community, which is men. I have stated before, men have been informing women what to do with their bodies for decades, men have been on rampages against women within our history not only within the United States, but internationally. For anyone who does not believe this analogy, read about the Salem Witch Trials, where populations of women within towns were literally being wiped out by groups of men who were literally going town to town murdering women on the sole excuse that they were witches, which was a farce.
I have lived in countries where women are not allowed to drive or vote. Women were not allowed to walk by themselves. Women have to be a virgin upon marriage or risk getting married and after conviction, face public stoning. Men in that particular country of course do not have to be virgins upon marriage, in fact, promiscuity is encouraged for men in that country (How fortunate we're not IN such a place). Therefore, this is why I have literally been stalking this thread, some of the responses from the men on this thread have been horrendous. One spoke of women merely being sperm receptacles, one spoke of a woman having to take responsibility, but the man skirting his responsibilities, this is enough to scare anyone into not having unprotected sex.
We women need to understand from this thread, the sexists are out there, the "woman haters" are obviously out there. There are men who literally believe that women are solely upon this earth to cater to their needs and wants, and yes, this includes pleasing them sexually. We need to take control of our lives and not leave protection up to men while having sex, it should be a individualistic necessity, I also feel this applies to the opposite gender, being men.
No matter what has been said within this thread, I commend the strong woman who has not only chosen to have the baby, but to bring this topic into a public forum, or at least allow her friend to do so, education is the key ladies (Up to here I agreed) and without it, we play right into the hands of all the control freaks who only care about THEIR needs and will cast you aside as if you were nothing more than trash. I do understand that not all men are the same as some of the sexists I have viewed on this thread, thank god for that. There are actually men out there who DO believe in equality of the genders, they believe in taking responsibility.
We women are the genders which was chosen to give birth to children. There is a reason for that ladies. We are strong, and let no man take your pride as well as choices away, for when all the sexists of this world fall by the wayside, and yes, life itself takes care of them, strong women will still be standing, watching them fall. :)
For your information, since you seem to be somewhat unclear. I'll point out that I'm Canadian, so my knowledge of American Law is limited.
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:
"15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability." (italics mine)
The Constitution of the United States of America, 14th Amendment:
"1. ... No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." (italics mine)
EQUALITY, ftw. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 10:33:45 AM |
Mojo: I did not even bother to completely read y our response to me, as usual, it's "WHINING"! I see your name on here is "MOJO". Why don't you try to obtain some of that and stop whining. I do not care if I insulted you, I do not care if I hurt y our feelings, you speak lunacy in reference to women, what's fair for you is fair for someone else, get over the fact that a woman can voice a view, I"m tired of viewing the whining and your conspiracy theories, that is all they are, thank you.
Begone, troll. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 10:34:08 AM | The argument that the father remains responsible because he sired the child in the first place
the key point i feel here is found in this part of your statement. you feel that if a man arranges an abortion for the woman, it makes him excempt from further liability, just as the drunk who took a cab instead of driving himself.
here in lies the rub, as they say,,
the drunk was in a position to decide to drive or take a cab. if he choses the cab then the person driving the cab is liable if there is a crash the driver caused.
the man who sired the child is not in that same position of choice, and knew that when he did the "siring" (LOL). he knew he would not have a choice, so he gave up the right to it, i.e. accepting and assuming that aspect specifically as the liability.
i understand that you are saying because the man who sired the child decided he wanted not to be a parent, and made arrangements for abortion as a result of that decision, you feel that precludes him from any further liability.
the problem with that logic is that the man knew going in that even if he arranged an abortion, he was still going to be liable cuz he knew he had no choice about abortion. you cant go around after the fact saying because this isnt fair to me, and i am willing to pay for an abortion i am relieving myself from responsibility to my child.
for the man there is no changing your mind or calling foul after conception. that is logical because you knew the risks going in. ( so to speak, no pun intended) | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 10:47:26 AM | Ooo, we're nearly there!
I see what you're saying, but my position remains that the man cannot be held accountable for events over which he has no choice. If the man doing the siring is not in a position of choice, then he cannot be in a position of responsibility, either.
(Again, this is the logical assessment, I feel the need to reiterate that it is not precisely my personal view) | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 255 | |
| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 11:10:14 AM | "Begone, troll."
My my mojo, for someone who get's so upset when he is insulted, etc, now who is utilizing ad-hominems? And by the way, I am far from a troll, and please for the future, do not reference to me a term (troll) which you more than likely utilize to reference your own mother. :) | |
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Nona37
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Joined: 10/3/2007
Msg: 256 | |
| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 11:22:28 AM | "(I've tried to stay on topic, but the thread deviated, largely due to your influence)"
So once again, I as a woman am being blamed because YOU the man can not stay on topic, I"m seeing a pattern here.
"which is a very strong woman attempting to overcome atrocity (adversity, I think you mean)"
No my Canadian neighbor, I did in fact mean "atrocity" Atrocity-An act of atrocious cruelty. Referencing the man's behavior within this particular situation on impregnating a woman and bailing which in my eyes is atrocious behavior. Wow, not only are you a wannabe lawyer, you are now a wannabe English scholar, I'm impressed.
"(also incorrect, the child is as much his as it is hers)"
This is obviously debatable, but the child is within HER belly and according to the law, she not the man can make the decision in keeping the child etc..or not, so I will give you half on that one, but the ONLY reason this is debatable is due to the fact, the man did indeed impregnate this woman with HIS seed, but I however on the other side of the debate do not believe the man has any say in reference to the child within a woman's belly until of course the child is birthed, and lucky for women in the US, the law agrees with that analogy.
"It's about control ladies. The sexists within this thread speak of equality, but only if it "favors" a man (Equality cannot favour anyone, by definition).
There is no way men and women alike can be "equal" within the arena of pregnancy. The law recognizes this as such within the US. Until you have shoved an object equivalent to the size of a basketball through a pea sized hole, you are not equal to women in this aspect, but since you are a wannabe lawyer as well as English scholar, I'm sure you can self-make yourself into a wannabe scientist and work on this project, please fill us in on your progress.
"(How fortunate we're not IN such a place)"
You have not been in such a place, but I have, hence why I can speak about it, I lived it, enuff said on that one :) | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 11:24:32 AM | dang... could you guys get a room already....
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 11:34:38 AM |
If the man doing the siring is not in a position of choice, then he cannot be in a position of responsibility, either.
You may bee looking at this in a different light and not looking at the entire act... you seemed to be more focussed on the end result rather than the entire matter at hand.
In my opinion, that guy gave up his rights when he relinquished his responsibility to ensure he would not impregnate her. Once he failed his intial responsibility (to not impregate) he no longer has the right to choose.
You don't get multiple chances to right a wrong.
I disagree with your premise that a person can be irresponsible from the onset and then be authoritive when the consequences of his behaviour is not as he wished it to be. Your agrument suggests that guys don't need to use birth control (condoms)... they can simply abandon a woman if she does not follow his demand that she abort.
Given the number of ***holes out there (like the OP's man), we would need abortion clinics on every street corner.
If a person can create a life... that person is fully responsible for supporting that life.... it's basic common sense - for those with a brain. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 11:58:22 AM | Nona:
I meant forum troll, as in posting exclusively to provoke an argument.
But enough of that.
MyI:
Hm, an interesting counterpoint.
I disagree that it is solely the man's responsibility to avoid unwanted conception. Both participants make the decision to have sex, both bear the burden of any result, whether or not birth control has been used by either party. As has been said, they both knew the risks and accepted them.
You're right, though, that the direction I've gone here suggests that the man could theoretically just walk away. Obviously that's not the preferred situation. On the other hand, the woman also has that choice. In fact, she has that choice regardless of what he decides. Imagine a situation in which the man wants to have and raise the child, but the woman wants an abortion. She could simply carry it out and he would have no recourse.
It's a thorny issue, to be sure. I'm not sure there's an ideal soution. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 12:05:15 PM | Ok men....so you want to have a say...you want a woman to have an abortion or give birth against her will?
Can i just ask WHO then will be responsible should any complications arise? If the woman dies on the table, will her family be adequately compensated by you? Would the woman have grounds to sue if her infertility was lost? Answers please. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 12:11:11 PM | | I believe in pro choice and it is her body and is not being selfish to want to have the baby or get an abortion. She should at least listen to him and his opinions. Perhaps talk to a health care professional and/or councelor for advise and to weigh in all her options. We do not know the person so we do not know all the facts. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 12:25:23 PM |
Ok men....so you want to have a say...you want a woman to have an abortion or give birth against her will?
Can i just ask WHO then will be responsible should any complications arise? If the woman dies on the table, will her family be adequately compensated by you? Would the woman have grounds to sue if her infertility was lost? Answers please.
You see, this is the problem the Law faces. For a law to be valid and of force, it must be equally applicable to all, regardless of gender, etc.. If she can demand his participation in the life of a child, he must also have that right. That leads to the conclusion that he be able to require her to carry the child even if she doesn't want it.
What if she aborts regardless? Is it murder? Does he have a recourse? Logic suggests the answer to these questions is yes, it would be murder, or at least criminal, yet we balk at this suggestion. No one, male or female, likes to be forced to do something they don't want to. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 12:31:44 PM | This is not MY story, it's from Craigslist.
enjoy.
Vasectomy: $400. Speechless look on her face: priceless.
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Date: 2007-02-06, 2:24PM PST
I'll try to sum up a funny story that happened a few years ago:
I got a vasectomy.
I met a girl soon afterwards. She was nice and attractive but with a selfish streak that raised a big red flag. She was 32 at the time and I could practically HEAR her biological clock ticking. Regardless, she was a good lay, easy on the eyes, and reasonably good company.
I did NOT tell her about my vasectomy and I always used a condom with her to protect against STDs. She assumed, obviously, that the condom was only used for birth control. Silly girl.
We date for a few months. I never made any move towards commitment but she brought it up ocassionally. For me, this was a casual but pleasant relationship. For her - as I was to find out - it was part of life-changing series of events that she was planning very carefully.
Four months into dating, I get the "I'm pregnant" talk. She's going on and on about how the condom must have broke and now we really need to think about getting married "for the baby". She's positively giddy. She has a baby in her and she thinks she's gonna have a good meal ticket (me) to go along with her new 7lb annuity.
At this point, I'm just as giddy. I get to pull the reverse "oops" on her. I figured that she slept with some bad boy and got knocked up. Good thing I was using condoms! Better still that I have a serious mistrust of women who can't think beyond their own uteri.
So I wait a couple of days to "think about all this." I meet her again. I say I don't want kids and that she should have an abortion. I know where this is going and sure enough it goes there. She goes completely batshit insane on me. There were the usual insults about my manhood. There were threats of legal action. It was all very ugly and I was loving every minute of it.
Well, I let her stew for a few days. She leaves me nasty messages on my phone. She sends awful emails. I'm laughing hysterically.
It was time to drop the hammer. While she was stewing I was busy. First I get a notarized copy from the urologist who performed the vasectomy. Next I get a notarized copy of the TWO test results indicating a "negative test result for sperm" to show I'm sterile and shooting blanks. Finally, I get a letter from a shark attorney stating he has seen the other documents and is prepared to litigate against this woman if she continues to communicate with me in such an unpleasant manner. Also, the letter states that we will insist on DNA testing to show that the baby is not mine. I'm ready.
I meet with this woman at her place. I bring flowers and a small bit of jewelry to show I am willing to reconcile and assume my responsibilities as a new father. I also have stuck in my pocket the documents I have prepared.
She's all giddy again. Her plan is going perfectly - or so she thinks. We talk about our future. We have some pretty good sex. Then, as I am about to walk out the door, I ask her the $64,000 question. "Are you sure that this baby is mine?"
Well, she goes batshit insane again. Hell, she ought to. Her plan could completely unravel if there is ANY question about my paternity. Oh, she's really screaming now. How dare I question her morals. Do I think she's a slut. I'm just trying to weasel out of my responsibilities... blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda.
I'm not really mad. I'm kind of embarrassed for her. But since she won't shut up and the neighbors can hear all of this, I ask her to step back inside and sit down. She sits on the sofa and calms down a bit. She is glaring at me with all the moral self-righteousness that only a woman can muster up. She thinks she has me trapped. She is 100% convinced her plan has worked. Oh, the tangled web of lies and deceit she has wrought around herself and I am about to hack through them with a few pieces of paper.
I reach into my pocket slowly. I extract the three pieces of paper and unfold them slowly and deliberately.
I tell her simply, "You're screwed".
Her look doesn't change. There is no way she can fathom what I have prepared.
I continue. "I am sterile"
Her look changes just a bit. Something is beginning to sink in. Naturally, she reverts to women's logic. "You're full of shit. You're trapped and you know it."
I hold up the letter and the test results. "Three months before we met, I had a vasectomy. Here is a notarized letter from him stating what I had done. Here are two test results showing that I tested negative for the presence of sperm. Blanks. I am shooting blanks. That baby inside you is simply not mine."
This woman is not to be swayed by logic and clear documentation. "Bullshit, those are fakes."
I was ready for that. "No, they are real. This last piece of paper is from my attorney. It's a simple letter to you that states if you pursue any kind of legal action against me for child support that I will insist on a DNA test to prove paternity, that is, to prove that your baby is not mine."
I give the woman all the documents. She reads them slowly, deliberately. With each passing second she can feel in her soul that she has made a very bad mistake. With denial swept away, she started to cry. It's a small cry at first. Then it becomes deeper and more painful. By the time she gets to the letter from the lawyer she is sobbing.
I had no sympathy for her. I turned and walked out the door. Even after I closed the door I could still hear her sobbing.
Epilogue -
I never heard directly from this woman again. I did hear through my friends that she did indeed have the baby. I also heard that the real father was some guy in a band she had met. I assumed that after 30, women stopped going after musicians, bikers, criminals, and thugs. Silly me for thinking the best of American women.
The Moral of the Story -
Get a vasectomy but keep it a secret. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 12:52:33 PM | I disagree that it is solely the man's responsibility to avoid unwanted conception. Both participants make the decision to have sex, both bear the burden of any result, whether or not birth control has been used by either party. As has been said, they both knew the risks and accepted them
You need to momentarily exclude the woman from the equation.
In the end, each person has to be responsible for their own behaviour. Regardless of her actions, he did not do his part. He did not ensure he was protected... he did not ask... he did not care. Therefore, it can be assumed that he was ready to accept whatever consequences arose from his behaviour. A part of the condsequrence is to accept whatever the woman decides and do the right thing from that point on.
As well, a man should never assume he can insist a woman place herself at risk (medically) just because he does not want the responsibility of fatherhood. Morally speaking, you or I haven't that right.
We have the right to be responsible for our behaviour. We also have the right of responsibility to accomodate the consequences...... "man-up", is the term I believe.
You see, this is the problem the Law faces
That's a coward's response. Using the law as a scapegoat is rather weak and redundant. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 1:35:00 PM | I think you've misunderstood me. The problem the law faces is that it requires equality, but equality would result in undesirable conclusions. It is therefore left with the difficult paradox you mentioned, that he hasn't the right to put her at risk. He must have the choice, but he can't have it because it puts her at risk.
Removing the woman from the equation is somewhat unrealistic, but let's go with it.
Each person is responsible for his own behaviour, as you say. The man would be responsible for the pregnancy (just as the woman would be...). Whether he protected himself or not, he's responsible for the pregnancy.
At this point you bring the woman back into it, but I'll carry on wthout her for a moment.
With him responsible for the pregancy (we'll assume he's a seahorse or something  ), he has the choice of continuing or ending the pregnancy. It's his responsibility, his choice to make. It's so much easier, and very unrealistic, because the problem lies in the fact that it affects someone else.
Now to return to reality, where both partners are involved. As above, both partners are responsible for the pregnancy. Each contributed to its creation by their own choice. This means that the man has agreed to the risk of pregnancy. It doesn't mean he agrees to whatever she might decide to do with it any more than it means she agrees to whatever he wants to do with it. It's as much his as it is hers, since he's contributed to it as well, so his say should be equally as valid. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 2:49:25 PM | I cannot help myself...
All this babbling is supposed to help the op in what way???
This thread is so off topic... No wonder younger people do not take any of us older ones seriously... | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 4:07:58 PM |
Removing the woman from the equation is somewhat unrealistic, but let's go with it
Ok... funny. I meant that in the sense we focus on his behaviour.
If a woman attempts to "trap" a man... what choices does he have?
Realistically, he must be responsible for his behaviour irrespective of the woman's behaviour. He did not want a child from their encounter yet he didn't protect himself from impregnating her (which includes abstainance).
Everything else is moot because he made his choice the moment he had unprotected sex. There are no other decisions he can make or insist upon regarding the birth of the child.
On topic:
She should make her decision based on what's best for her emotionally and psychologically after she decides on what would be best for the child. Being raised in a poor environment (mentally) can be a very miserable life... is that the right circumstances from which a baby should be brought into this world?
On the other hand, I know of two girls who aborted and to this day they still have breakdowns when their friends have babies from planned pregnancies.
A man will never know what goes on in a woman's mind as she is placed on top of a table, listening to the sounds as they extract the unborn child. If men really knew... they would respect a woman's right to decide on her own and support her decision. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 6:20:24 PM | Also playing devil's advocate, to an extent:
I've been dealing exclusively in objective logic.
A person's responsibility ends when they choose to end it.
Why isn't the question "when a person's responsibility BEGINS"? Doesn't your logic entail the notion of no consequences?
Responsibility, really, is nothing more than the ability to respond, so I could go so far as to say that this isn't an issue of responsibility at all. If that is the case, then there is only the legal and perhaps moral issue to deal with, right? Therefore logic, tempered thusly, with a sense of morality/legality would seem to be something like "if the parents of a child are responsible for it, and sex between a man & a woman MIGHT produce a child, then choosing to have sex means that you are responsible for the child, should one be produced."
Just saying 
btw, Mojo, I'm LOVING your posts; thanks! | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/10/2007 8:11:14 PM | | First of all, OP, please refrain from taking and making such a matter so lightly as to be too cute for the words you choose to use for what IS a big deal ...and not a matter to 'cute-sitize' w/ your own version of English. I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been deleted because of this, but then you've brought up a subject that seems to have 'hit a chord' for too many of us others who've become parent w/o realizing this consequence of having sex. That 'your friend' chooses not to abort is honorable, but she is on her own ...and will likely remain so if she cares to hang a guilt trip on the eventual father. Babies are God's opinion that life should go on, and every 'lil thing that we can do as adults and parents to make these aliens to life feel welcome and loved ...despite how and w/ whom they came about. It's the potential life-to-be that 'your friend' should concern yourself for bringing about as healthily as possible ...regardless of how much "Dad" might feel or do for becoming one. That baby just might discover a cure for cancer someday, and this is a good thing. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/11/2007 7:30:20 AM | yup, we are almost there.
if you know a car will crash before you drive it, and you know there is nothing you can do about the car crashing, and then you get into the car and drive it it anyway, you assume all liability and responsibility as a result of your driving that particular car.
you knew going in what the risks were and you agreed to accept those risks when you drove the car.
since you know you had no actual choice about the birth of a child, and you had sex anyway?? you assume all risks with the act knowing the possible outcome.
your opportunity to make a choice, was prior to the sex. he had the choice to sire, but he didnt exercise that choice by keepin his clothes on. so, theoretically, he "choses" any result of his action.
what you say is a logical assessment only works if the guy didnt realize pregnancy was a risk of having sex, protected or otherwise. even then its not going to work in practical application. since the law does not preclude him from responsibility of his actions weather he understood the risk or not.
( i am keeping in mind that you are merely a devils advocate role player in this debate)
what i dont get is how you see it as logical as it precludes the knowledge of the key risk of no choice about abortion or birth. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/11/2007 7:45:24 AM | ""I cannot help myself... ""
sure you could have, you just didnt and figured this slam was a better reflection of your personality than it would have been to offer something of merit
"""All this babbling is supposed to help the op in what way??"""
first of all, i dont babble! secondly, if the op reads any of this she will know that this man cannot, by morality or law be exempt from his responsibility to his child, regardless of any afterthoughts the two parents may be having. they should have thought about the consequences before having sex. furthermore, this child has a right to his/her father.
"""This thread is so off topic... No wonder younger people do not take any of us older ones seriously..."""
this thread is quite on topic in fact. its about responsibility, which is what was commented on in the original post. (as much as any of us could assertain by the torturous language used)
perhaps YOU arent taken seriously is because you contribute nothing of merit and have been the one honestly accused of babbling. I am often called up to dialogue on several topics, as well, called upon for advise both personally and professionally. in my church i have done most of the motivational speaking to our youth groups. i can assure you my dear that i am very much taken seriously by young ppl and certainly dont babble. | |
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Posted: 11/11/2007 8:13:56 AM | First, your grammar is atrocious. Is that Ebonics or Chicanics? Anyway, virtually all guys have sex to get laid, not to become fathers - at least those on THIS site. It is a biological predisposition that we have VERY little control over so we can deny ourselves or embrace it carefully.
Only the woman has the choice to carry to term or abort. The man, who may in fact love the girl but only wanted to get laid is now, in fact powerless and at her mercy and it is a shame to hear this scenario played out over and over again because the guy was stupid enough to not suit up and/ or the woman really wants to get pregnant and bides her time.
The real loser is the child who is born without 2 loving parents who planned for him/her and made sure their lives were in order and willingly committed to being parents.
Your friend is selfish and foolish to have a child in this manner and offers no real hope for its future. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/11/2007 8:47:48 AM | because the guy was stupid enough to not suit up
merely "suiting up" as you call it, does not still preclude him from the scenario that can unfold.
the point is,, if you can fertilize you should not be playing unless you are prepared for the consequences.
lets take this one step further,, if a man who is hiv positive, uses a condem, and the woman still gets infected,, is he excused from his responsibilty for infecting her because he used a condom?? is she excused from her part in it because she insisted on the condom?
NO! both assumed the risk so both are responsible for their part in it and the consequences of the act.
many of us on this thread have spoken about his responsibility and hers when it comes to pregnancy. how bout we talk about responsibility for having sex together. she knows even doubling up on condoms, using spermicide and being on the pill all at the same time, will reduce the risk of pregnancy but it doesnt eliminate it totally. there are only two things that will, abstinence, and being infertile/sterile.
if neither of these things are present, then the risks are assumed and accepted when you chose to have sex. | |
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Posted: 11/11/2007 8:53:21 AM | im sorry golddigger, that wasnt really funny, in fact it wasnt funny at all. it was a narrative of two pathetic ppl torturing eachother.
the real moral of that story is know who you are dealing with before you have sex with them.
"""I assumed that after 30, women stopped going after musicians, bikers, criminals, and thugs. Silly me for thinking the best of American women. """"
how did musicians and bikers get associated with thugs and criminals? but eh,, its from craigslist, what can you expect? | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/11/2007 9:06:04 AM | She should do what she feels she can live with. In the end, it is her decision, her conscience she has to live with and her body has to go through what ever choice she makes. He doesn't have to go through that.
If she chooses to keep it, she should plan on raising the child alone. I do think he should be financially responsible on his part, but that will be handled by the laws of where you live.
If she doesn't believe in abortion, but doesn't want to keep the baby, then yes, adoption is a wonderful choice. She can even make it an open adoption and get to know the parents if she wants.
I do ultrasound and just want to say to the OPs who said a baby isn't a baby until comes out....... BULLSHIT. I see their little heart beating and hear it at 5wks. By 8-10 weeks, they already have everything. Our weeks go by the first day of your last period, so actually 8 weeks would be one month late on your period to someone. | |
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