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| she got pregnant
Posted: 11/13/2007 4:02:30 AM | | intheswim your remarks to everyone are totaly stupid and dumb | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/13/2007 4:29:15 AM | I wish only the best to the OP and her friend.
lol >giggles>>>
i think the op is the "friend" she speaks of. most ppl when explaining in the begining that "this is my friend not me" are usually talking about themselves because they are embarassed or ashamed.
no matter really, i dont judge, i do find it slightly amusing that she had to include that. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/13/2007 11:26:47 AM |
Goldigger, I must say that I loved that story. I would love it more if you would have not kept your secret (then how would it work?) You just pick a better woman next time. If you were just looking to get laid, then...good job!
If you intentionally kept this info from her, that is wrong............
Just to clear this point up moto, the story IS actually on Craigslist. It is NOT me.
I have it on my profile that I am "fixed" so as not to get any hopes up. I already have enough of my genes floating around out there. lol | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/13/2007 11:30:59 AM | No matter how this child came about...it's a gift.
At least give the gift life...
If she doesn't want to be a single mom...there are other's who would die for such a gift. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/13/2007 1:42:54 PM | | I personally feel that just because a woman bears the child doesn't give her the right to decide a man should father a child!! Hope if she decides to keep this child against his wishes; she is willing to expect nothing from him!! Obviously, proper precautions were not taking by either party to ensure that this didn't happen!! We are talkin' adults here aren't we? P.s sorry if you don't like what you hear just my opinion!! | |
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Posted: 11/13/2007 11:56:26 PM | Goldigger, that's good news! I was getting pretty ticked at you. Thanks for clearing that up. Great story with many lessons though! Now, either this person has ticked me off or I have to just admire his creativity in writing. I'm still deciding which. LOL.  | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/14/2007 7:17:23 AM | lela,
i'll tell my views on abortion of which i am not ashamed.
my belief - the minute the sperm and egg get together, you've got yourself a BABY.
due to some health issues i have, i may have to make that decision someday (maybe not - just won't know until the time comes) and i will let myself die before i kill my (possible) unborn child. people may think that is stupid but i am NOT going to KILL.
children are a blessing from God - ALL OF THEM - and adoption is a wonderful way to avoid 1) killing a human life and 2) let someone who cannot give life themselves RECEIVE a gift.
it is 9 months out of a person's life. 9 short months. 40 weeks, whatever...
i just cannot understand it.
God does not just let babies happen for no reason.
i may get the crap flamed out of me on this but that is my belief. i could never ever ever kill my unborn child...
-- an adopted person who gave birth to the most wonderful blessing 8 years ago and has wanted to do it again ever since. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/14/2007 7:32:35 AM | susieq,
you are welcome and valid to think and believe as you do for your personal choices in regards to abortion. but you take it a step or several hundred steps beyond that belief when you refer to abortion as murder/killing.
by default you are referring to everyone who has ever had an abortion for whatever thousands of reasons each person had for that personal and none of your business decision, YOU CALL THEM A MURDERER!
and no,, not all conceptions are gifts from god. the 13 yr old who gets pregnant as a result of insestual abuse << this is not a gift from god.
the woman who is brutally raped and gets pregnant as a result, << this is not a gift from god
atopic pregnancies<< not a gift from god.
it is one thing to not understand something, but that doesnt make it ok for you to cast such harsh dispersions on ppl who chose abortion.
you should not be ashamed that you are pro life,, no one should be, but to refer to pro choice advocates, as murderers IS something to be ashamed of.
personally, i think if a woman who carries a baby to term, knowing she is most likely to die in childbirth or a result of it, is selfish. selfish beyond comprehension, how could you knowingly leave your defenseless infant to an uncertain future without his/her mother? giving life is more than just the conception, gestation and birthing processes. to go thru that and then know you will die is just selfish. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/15/2007 3:44:19 AM | I'm sorry?
WHY cant she express that view?
Admittedly she COULD have said "if I aborted MY baby, then to ME that would feel like murder"
BUT, thats just semantics, it IS exactly the same as saying "if anyone aborts a baby I think its murder" really because it would be a very odd psychosis that led someone to feel the abortion of their baby was any different to anyone elses baby being aborted
The "fluffed" up version might be easier to read, but they still both express the same view
And as much as I would totally denigrate someone having something like that on a placard protesting outside an abortion clinic I DO think its perfectly acceptable to express that or any other view on a message board where the topic is being discussed as the whole ethos of discussion is that ALL views are equally valid if anyone holds them and not simply the ones that SOME people think should be valid
It doesnt matter how many people agree with or disagree with any particular view it DOESNT make it any more "right" or "wrong" than any other view as all views are personal so only 1 person needs to have a view anywhere in the world for it to be an equally valid albeit if that were the case a VERY rare one
Anyway, the "murderer" retort, and "its a life from the moment of conception" mantras are often wheeled out where a man doesnt want a child with a woman and nobody bats and eyelid at them when thats the scenario, infact they have been used several times on this thread in various guises with no outcry or shock horror rhetoric whatsoever because it was "useful" in that situation
When there isnt an unwilling father to vehemently put in his place tho its an unwelcomed view
Funny that | |
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Posted: 11/15/2007 4:19:14 AM | WHY cant she express that view?
she can do whatever she wants, doesnt make it ok to do it.
its one thing to have an opinion about abortion, its quite another to impose those views on someone else. As well, its even more crass to refer to someone in the negative simply because you dont agree with them or what they do. it is a given that when you refer to abortion as murder it follows that the ppl who perform or seek the abortions are murderes by that statement. but sadly now this thread has once again gone off course. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/15/2007 5:10:16 AM |
its one thing to have an opinion about abortion, its quite another to impose those views on someone else.
Actually it hasnt gone off course as much as you might think
People "impose" their view of abortion on other people all the time and not only do very few people bat an eyelid about it you have, yourself, and on this thread defended their right to do just that where the view is one expressed by a pregnant woman and the "other person" is the father ACTUALLY
And as an unnamed and nonsepecif "someone else" as in that womans post is less connected to the outcome of a particular pregnancy its by comparison a less significant "imposition" of a view than it is onto someone that DOES have something to do with it
So what youre REALLY saying is that YOU dont think its right to impose a view on abortion on to someone else UNLESS its done in a way you agree with which is hardly consistent and nor does it show integrity of belief in the dissapproval | |
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Posted: 11/15/2007 5:49:18 AM | ok, since ya want to,, ill play a bit. at least you are not coming at me with the usual feminine emotional garbabe.
lets look at two words
impose/express
like in my first example,
if you say, abortion is wrong you have only expressed an opinion
if you bomb the clinic, you impose your belief.
and yes i have here in this thread defended a womans right to choose, (sort of) and i will in the future defend that right. but understand this,, and from where that comes from. my parents raised us (12 siblings total) that you dont have to agree with what a persons says, but you should in this country defend their right to say it. ( my father was big on civil rights). They also taught us that its one thing to express an opinion and its quite another to impose that opinion on someone else, specifically when it comes to personal choice matters. my father used to say, " i may not agree with what you are saying, but i will lay my life down to ensure your right to say it in this country"
by her referring to some as murderers simply because their actions dont jibe with her opinions is taking the matter one step further and making an irrational and unfair judgement on ones character. it is taking it beyond a simple expression of any opinion into charachter assasinations.
those parents of mine taught us a strong sence of community. they instilled in us that we have the obligation as capable thinking ppl to defend and give aid to those less fortunate.
it would be acceptable for her to say it in a manner which doesnt do anything but express her feelings about the matter>>> something along the lines of this>
"because i feel all life comes from god, and upon fertilization of the egg human life begins, i feel abortion is wrong."<< AND JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT? doesnt that express the opinion without calling anyone names?
the thing i find most interesting about the "pro-lifers" is that they are the strongest advocates for the death penalty. which is a contradiction, i guess this is one reason i dont take the pro life platform too seriously. how can you accept someone as being valid when in the next breath they are adovocating for death? | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/15/2007 7:36:29 AM | i believe it is a life
it is being ended.
death occurs at the hands of someone else.
what is that called then?
and yes I DO believe ALL children are a gift from God. ALL OF THEM. What we DO with that gift is OUR responsibility.
i am NOT going to kill what God gave me.
i am looking at it very simply. that may be why not everyone understands. | |
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Posted: 11/15/2007 8:09:30 AM | | You are, of course, entitled to your beliefs. Not everyone agrees with them, however, and calling it murder is decidedly inflammatory. I believe that's Trish's point. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/15/2007 8:34:26 AM | i am looking at it very simply. that may be why not everyone understands.
simple explanations arent difficult to understand. i understand what you said, i am attempting to give you a little insight into the minute inflections of your methods and help you grow from that simple attitude. but then, well, some ppl are satisfied with being simple.
abortion, as a topic is not something that is simple, so to look at it from a simple standpoint is ludicrous.
i wonder if you would have the nerve to sit with a 13 yr/old who finds herself pregnant because of her fathers incest and tell her the pregnancy is a gift from god as she is dealing with the horrors of incestual rape.
i wonder what you would say to a woman who pregnant as a result of having been bound and gagged and raped repeatedly over a course of many days. would you seriously show no compassion to her by spewing out " its a gift from god"?
if so, then you are rigid and inflexible and are completely void of compassion. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/15/2007 9:58:43 AM | Actually I still dont see your distinction Trish nor the difference
To say you think someone is a murderer isnt casting anything on their character, its refering to an act of them taking a life
Its not "imposing" anything on them either as they arent changed because someone thinks theyre a murderer, it doesnt in the eyes of the law make them a murderer and it doesnt mean they then cant have an abortion because someone thinks its murder
So it is simply someones expression that they, in their eyes see it as murder, and therefore anyone who does it IS, again in their eyes a murderer
Thats simply expression of a view, nothing more
However, enforcing your beliefs onto someone else is just a bit worse as you have pointed out
However, you DO defend the right of a pregnant women to both impose her beliefs onto the father and also express her views and enact them to the point where they DO affect another
Yet this woman you would seek to stop from simply expressing her opinion because some people, including you might not like or agree with it
And an inflammatory statement is what ever the person inflamed decides is inflammatory really
Someone saying that abortion SHOULD be legal would be just as "inflammatory" to a pro lifer would they not?
So by using the chance of someone being inflamed to curtail one side of a topic whilst defending the others right TO inflame isnt really either just, fair or what discussion is really about (IMO obviously) | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/15/2007 10:29:37 AM | if i had the proper training (in psychology or whatever to help her) i WOULD.
horrible things happen every day to innocent people but good can come from anything and you never know WHEN.
i am not completely void of compassion. i just look at it differently. i have lots of compassion, for the person AND the unborn child. you really just do not understand. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/15/2007 10:42:19 AM |
And an inflammatory statement is what ever the person inflamed decides is inflammatory really
Are you suggesting that the implication that one is a murderer might not be inflammatory?
Suggesting legal abortion is not in the same ballpark. One is a personal slight, the other is not. It might be inflammatory inasmuch as someone might disagree vigorously, but it does not step into the realm of the personal attack/insult/slight.
That is, there are those that might consider legal abortion a good thing. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that thinks murder is a good thing. Thus the implications of each statement are very different in character. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/15/2007 10:55:27 AM | """To say you think someone is a murderer isnt casting anything on their character, its refering to an act of them taking a life"""
Firstly, you have to stick stricktly to the specific reference. beacause what you typed is not what was said, nor was it in the same context.
what was said simply was this "abortion is the act of murder"
along side what you typed, these are totally different things.
""Someone saying that abortion SHOULD be legal would be just as "inflammatory" to a pro lifer would they not?""
no, because it refers nothing to the person seeking one.
(saying that it should be legal is kinda stupid in my opinion, since it already is legal)
heres the difference in the statements
1) abortion is muder
2) i would not chose abortion
the first imposes ones belief onto another. it as well makes a character assessment by use of the word "murder".
the second is merely stating a fact.
i cant explain this any more simply, if you still dont get it, then i guess your just lost to the point.
she is entitled to believe that life begins at conception,
she is entitled to say that all conceptions are gifts from god ( although many dont buy into that hogwash)
she is entitled to make personal choices about abortion
she is not entitled to say its wrong for anyone else, she is not entitled to refer to it as murder because of how that reference includes the persons using abortion.
she is entitled to believe how she wants, she is not entitled to impose that belief on anyone or cast dispursions because of her belief.
its not the inability to understand a thing from another view that is exasperating, its the refusal to even try . | |
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Posted: 11/15/2007 11:50:38 AM | She IS entitled so say she thinks its wrong for anyone else lol, thats just silly
Go back and count how many things YOU have said are wrong for other people to do think or hold as a view just in this thread alone and you disprove your own statement
She IS also perfectly entitled to say SHE considers its murder, unless of course you can show me a law that says otherwise (seeing as you seem to think a law makes something undebateable)
So she IS merely stating what she thinks, and what she thinks is that abortion IS murder
And until she can "force" other people to think the same way, (which she cant) then she isnt "imposing" her view on anyone else, she is merely posting it on a public forum where everyone can choose to either read it or not, agree with it or not, and disagree with it or not as they CHOOSE to do
So where is the imposition?
Because if youre going to claim that simply stating a view is "imposing it" then youre doing just that, so am I and so is everyone else who posts on here
And its not a case of "getting it", I get exactly what youre saying petal, I just dont agree with it in the slightest which I would have thought similarly didnt need explaining as its self evident
Mojo
Are you suggesting that the implication that one is a murderer might not be inflammatory?
Well someone could call me a murderer all day long if they wanted to, but as I DONT think I am a murderer it wouldnt have any more relevance to me than if they called me a marshian, apple or enviromentalist really, so no, to me it isnt inflammatory
I would wonder WHY they thought that, and if I disagreed with their reasoning I'd state why but it wouldnt "inflame" me in the slightest
If I was infact a murderer who had so far escaped punishment however it might inflame me, and then I might just kill em
But I'm not, so I have no reason to look on the view with anything but bemusement, infact because of my views on abortion I HAVE been called a murderer many times on discussion boards, but the moment views of irrelevant strangers start to have an emotive effect is the moment I stop using message boards
Suggesting legal abortion is not in the same ballpark. One is a personal slight, the other is not. It might be inflammatory inasmuch as someone might disagree vigorously, but it does not step into the realm of the personal attack/insult/slight.
Its the same in that BOTH are equally expressing what that person thinks of the practice. One thinks its murder, one thinks its a funky cool thing to do. But its quite common for both to be EQUALLY "inflamed" by the others view and the fact they cant see the "right view" (which is obviously theirs)
Havent you ever seen how angry, inflamed, aggressive and even violent pro lifers can get at their rallies?
That is, there are those that might consider legal abortion a good thing. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that thinks murder is a good thing. Thus the implications of each statement are very different in character.
That depends on whos definition of murder you use tho, some think the death penalty is murder, some think fighting in a war is committing murder, and some think abortion is murder
And youre flipping paradigms there btw, you use the same perspective for both sides IE people who think abortion is abortion and murder is murder with no overlap, so obviously their perspective will only work in one direction
But if you use the pro lifers view then they could find millions of people who think "murder" is good, ie people who have abortions, Jehovahs witnesses could list millions who think murder is good, IE governments and soldiers
So the implication will differ from each persons perspective, each of which is an equally entitled perspective to view the world from
Wasnt it Elanor Roosevelt who said soemthing like "I might fight every day of my life in opposition to someones view, but I would give my life fighting for their right to express it"? | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/15/2007 8:44:24 PM | | I do not agree with message 2. Of course she can ask him for child support!!! What´s happening to the world???? It´s just ridiculous to say she shouldn´t cause he doesn´t want that baby to be born!!!! OMG I can´t believe it was a woman who said that. | |
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| she got pregnant!
Posted: 11/15/2007 9:04:49 PM | the way i see it is, it's her body, if she wants it she should have it, she could even still carry it and give it up for adoption.... i personally think he's the one being selfish!
sorry.. but that's my opinion.. i would never have an abortion.. i'd either keep it or give it up for adoption. | |
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Posted: 11/16/2007 12:24:11 AM | Cami,
Finally somneone else talked about adoption other than me and MAYBE one other... Thanks for thinking outside the box! | |
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Posted: 11/16/2007 1:47:12 AM | Ok then funnynsweet, if you feel so strongly about that then, what about the reverse situation?
Where the man DOES want the baby and doesnt agree with abortion but the woman doesnt?
We would probably both agree that the woman should still be allowed to abort, but shouldnt she then be made to pay the man compensation for HIS "inconvenience"?
Perhaps even a similar amount to the child support paid in the other scenario, because after all, what price CAN you put on the compensatory value of what, to that man would be someone killing HIS unborn child?
And if that were the case, how do you think it would alter the amount of women who had abortions? Because personally if THEY had to dig deep into their pockets too. and THEY had to face the responsibility of their actions I reckon you would see a marked decrease in the amount of abortions taking place
It would also be about as "fair" and "equal" as a reasonable society could manage to reach
Or would you see a WOMAN having to be responsible, financially culpable and answerable for HER choices and decisions as "sexist", "silly" and "unfair"? | |
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