|
|
|
|
|
| | Golden Compass Promotes HatePage 10 of 11 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11) | xzanthius:
As far as I am concerned the Catholic Church is fair game as far as Hollywood villians in concerned. So long they were a voice of oppression and genocide.
i couldn't agree more on that. for far too long, the catholic church, m0re than any other institutions, have caused more harm than good and have contributed to keeping the people away from God more than get close to it/him/her. as a result, countries with strong catholic heritage have either rejected the RCC for the profit of a more evangilical approach (the central & south americas) or rejected God alltogether (Quebec, France for example). One thing is for sure, The RCC has only itself to blame and no one else. May it perish sooner than later. I agree with Fidler concerning the other churches too though: all extremist have blood in their hands (and not only religious groups, but people like Stalin(communist) and Pinochet(capitalist) as well)
Now for the movie: i did see it a couple of months ago and thought it was a "slightely bellow average" fantasy. somebody compared it to the Harry Potter movies. it compares to the first 2. but there is absolutely no comparaison between the last two Potters (who were much closer to the spirit of the books and were magnificient) and this movie. It lacks the Heart, the passion (something the atheist lack a lot of) and isn't backed by a very strong direction. The acting was overthetop and the message didn't seem to get across very well. sure, you don't want to promote hate, but you're encouraging a little girl to go to war and fight (and we'll keep on fighting until the end if we have to (or something like that)... sounds like John McCain to me when he said "we'll stay in Irak for 100 years if we have to. yikes.
it wasn't a "bad" film per se. it was just your average rental. it's a far cry from a Peter Jackson or a Terry Gilliam, that's for sure...  | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/18/2008 1:56:42 PM | I read the "his dark materials" trilogy years ago and i see nothing on it thats objectionable , that is if we are viewing from a logical standpoint.
first off i want to say that for each and every so called "godless"/"evil"/"satan's own work"/(etc etc etc) books written there have been hundreds if not thousands of books which shove different versions of "god" down children's throats.
i'm at a loss to see people claiming that writing books which are anti-god is something thats "evil" and is something that "warps the mind" of kids while they are "so impressionable" all the while promoting books which thrust god down the throats of such "impressionable" children.
if children are being "influenced" by these books by the likes of Pullman, in what way is it diff from the almost immersive propaganda they get about "god" from the time they were born?. what type of benchmark are you guys(those who oppose this trilogy) using?
as a poster asked in this same thread
FairfieldMan
So you're arguing that for the kids' sake they shouldn't watch this for fear of being indoctrinated against God. Would you say the same thing of Bible study, church groups and C.S. Lewis novels until after they are older (like 12 or so, since that would be when it would be okay to read atheist novels by your judgement)?
^^and these acts are not "propaganda" for "helpless" children with such "impressionable" minds?. the hypocrisies i see in some people is amusing!
perhaps they have forgotten that we live in a free world. perhaps they have forgotten that this is not a religious theocracy. and perhaps they have even forgotten that everyone has the same right as the other person.If propaganda such as that of C.S.Lewis and his like is allowed and even "welcomed" then there ought to be no problem with children being offered a different viewpoint.
this habit of
"because this does not fall within what i believe as "good" i will have to ensure that no one gets to read such stuff"!!! is so medieval and close minded(to say the least!). this is akin to the church burning the astronomers who said "the earth is a globe rotating the sun" on the stake!(and we all know the earth is a globe now..or do we :P)
^^ is that not the pinnacle of arrogance? to impose one's will on others? If they don't like it, then they need not read it or see the movie, but to have the books/movies banned just cos you do not agree with them is plain stupidity.
as the old saying goes, "think before you start pointing fingers at others , because while you are pointing with one finger; realize that the other 3 are pointing at you!"
 | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/18/2008 2:06:01 PM | I don't think people hate god it's the Chrstians they don't care for. Christians are always trying to convert people, something I really don't like. I have my own beliefs why is someone trying to change me? I am not an atheist by the way. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't they hate god or even hate you. Maybe they hate what you do.
Just by posting this thread altrust80 you're starting conflict, I am attacking you but I am pointing it out to you. Where is the love Christians are suppose to have the unconditional love and forgiveness. | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/18/2008 5:30:37 PM | scorpiomover:
That's all right. Not many people were exposed to the breadth and depth of knowledge, and different people that I was. Most people simply don't know 90% of what I was taught by the time I reached 15.
Wow. Did you actually say that?
romanticoptimist:
Does Pullman actually identify "Christian" as the source of dogma and "the establishment" (The Magesterium perhaps?). I haven't read the books, only seen the film. I'm curious whether he identifies Christian dogma and/or Christianity or is this an assumption and a reading into what he said on your part? Could you quote the passage where he specifically identifies it as a Christian thing? Thank you.
No, he doesn't. Good point. | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/18/2008 6:16:07 PM | The Source:
Christians are always trying to convert people, something I really don't like.
That really annoys me too. Christians need to understand that the belief in God comes from within and can't be imposed by others. that is often the reason why children in Christian schools (especially Catholics! ) tend to rebel even more over their parents' authority and wound up being away from God rather than close to him/her.
it reminds me of a conversation i had with a fundumentalist christian a couple months ago. she was complaining that "eskimos" didn't want to become christian so therefore "they were excluding themselves from God and that they would not be saved" ()
Ridiculous. Innus and natives in general had a lot more depth in their spirituality and have more respect for Mother Nature than the average white christian nut job who's only thinking about making money so he could pay the payments on his ford F-350 every month.... | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/18/2008 9:09:55 PM | a bit nomadic:
That's all right. Not many people were exposed to the breadth and depth of knowledge, and different people that I was. Most people simply don't know 90% of what I was taught by the time I reached 15. Wow. Did you actually say that?
My father was a literary scholar, and had an extensive library of all sorts of books. So we used to read up on the Greek myths, and the Roman myths. My grandmother was educated to the top level of schooling in England and used to give us spelling tests, so we all know how to spell even the most complex words.
My mother went to Bex Hill's School for Young Ladies, where young daughters of Earls, Dukes and Lords attended, so she taught us about etiquette, manners and how to address diplomats and royalty. She is an accountant, but never got chartered, so she would do the books for the companies she worked for, and then the books would be signed by the Chartered Accountant. She's done the books for Gold Traders, for Million-dollar property companies, and knows every sort of accounting you can name. When I was 16, I had an argument with her, because I lost by National Insurance number. She told me it would take 6 weeks for them to find it for me. I said that there was no way it would take that long. Guess who was right?
The school I went to, was pretty off-the-wall. Practically every teacher there had a PhD, and most were so knowledgable, that they really should have been teaching in a university, but they preferred to teach at a Jewish school. So I learned masses on Physics, Chemistry, Human Biology, Jewish History which had to include European History and Christian History, Jewish Philosophy which I found myself comparing to the stuff I heard about Christian Philosophy. I had developed my own theory for a proof of G-d by age 15.
Plus, I had a voracious appetite for knowledge. I used to read on all sorts of subjects, and developed a great interest for the hidden history, that which is not publicised. In addition, I had an odd sort of memory. I would forget the sort of things most people remember. My mother would send me down the shops for pickled cucumbers, and I would come back with the wrong ones. But when it came to stuff like history, and mathematics, my mind wouldn't let me forget it. I used to read the TV Times each week, and my family stopped reading it. They just asked me instead.
I loved learning about different cultures. So I used to talk to everyone, and used to question the Catholics about their religion, the Protestants about theirs, Bhuddists, Hindus, Spanish people, African people, you name the culture, and I've probably talked to people from there.
I used to be into Astrology and Tarot cards when I was in my early 20s, and did about 18 readings a week for about 1 1/2 years, so that's about 1400 readings, or thereabouts. I used to use an Ephemeris every day. My sister used to learn about crystals.
Then my sister learned about massage, and did a year of physiotherapy, then she learned about acupuncture, and pressure points, and Shiatsu massage. She used to tell me all about it. Every lesson she learned, I learned. She also taught me a fair bit about Art and Architecture, when she was studying Art as an access course to university. Her favourite architect was Frank Lloyd Wright.
I've also taken a great interest in studying how people came to be the way they were, so I could understand them. I've watched and learned all about many Ancient cultures. For instance, did you know how the Oedipus legend includes that Oedipus was left in an urn in a forest, because that was what the ancient Athenians used to do with sickly children? Or did you know that the term Paterfamilias (Male head of the household) comes from Latin? Roman Law used to have a tradition that the family was everything, that the head man was king of the family, and you had to do what he said, and that when a woman got married, she stopped being part of her old family, and was legally considered part of her husband's family and called her father-in-law father and her mother-in-law mother? I suspect that was where the in-law bit came in, because in Roman Law, your father is no longer your father. Your ex-husband's father is now your father and legally, your ex-husband is your brother.
So yes, I really did say that.
I still find that I'm learning a whole load of new things each day. But people are amazed at the stuff I just come out with, when I just prattle on. They've never heard anything like it. | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/18/2008 9:41:39 PM | lol, scorpiomover, I wasn't questioning your intelligence or whether or not you know lots of stuff.
What I meant when I reacted to your dismissal, was that however much YOU might know, people who express disagreement with you aren't necessarily doing so out of ignorance (relative or otherwise).
****
Anyway, the Polar Bear rocks. | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/18/2008 11:08:01 PM | TheS0urce, message 228 said:
Where is the love Christians are suppose to have the unconditional love and forgiveness.
Where do you get the idea that Christians are these little nambi pambi, doormat, kumbaya people who never lose their temper and always passively have to accept whatever is flung their way?
I remember Jesus in the temple being mighty ticked off at the money changers making a mockery out of something that He deemed sacred. He went in there and literally threw them out violently. I would say He definitely went off on them. There was no unconditional lah-de-dah, do whatever you like and I have to show tolerance, patience, and passivity, and never express what I really think, there.
Sometimes even Christians have enough. And just so everyone knows, Christians are not all cut from the same cloth. Some of us do not fit your stereotypical molds-- and some of us will tell you exactly what we think, quite firmly, in fact. | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/19/2008 7:44:17 AM |
romanticoptimist asked: Does Pullman actually identify "Christian" as the source of dogma and "the establishment" (The Magesterium perhaps?). I haven't read the books, only seen the film. I'm curious whether he identifies Christian dogma and/or Christianity or is this an assumption and a reading into what he said on your part? Could you quote the passage where he specifically identifies it as a Christian thing? Thank you.
a bit nomadic replied: No, he doesn't. Good point.
Then would it be fair to say that what you said previously (quoted below) wasn't in fact true, only your interpretation of his words?
Pullman's trilogy doesn't address the EXISTENCE of God, just the control of believers by "the establishment" and the affects of Christian dogma (or Christian psychology?) on the individual and his ability to realise his personal potential. | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/19/2008 8:49:44 AM | romanticoptimist:
Then would it be fair to say that what you said previously (quoted below) wasn't in fact true, only your interpretation of his words?
Sure, it would be fair to say that this is just my interpretation of his books, just as it would be fair to say that any interpretation of any writer's words is only an interpretation. But Pullman, both a humanist and a secularist, is pretty open about his views. I would never try to argue that his dislike of dogmatic (emphasis on dogmatic) religion and its USE for the purposes of power is limited to Christianity... | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/19/2008 9:03:31 AM | What I hate..just absolute HATE...are the idiots that spout off about a movie, book, or anything that they haven't SEEN nor READ.
Read the book...think about you've read...and then comment.
See the movie...think about what you've seen....and then comment.
Most of the people on this thread opposed to The Golden Compass probably have neither read the book nor seen the movie and are just parroting what they've heard from somebody else.
Which,FYI, makes you an idiot. | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/19/2008 9:38:39 AM |
Pullman's trilogy doesn't address the EXISTENCE of God,
Actually it does, they also go on to state that the prime mover is extant of his world. The Pulman universe was created by and from dust. Dust then affects everything in the universe but is not in itself a figure of godhead, so pullman creates a universe where the prime mover is nothing more than a natural force and the first sentient entity to arive takes credit for the creation of the universe because there is no one to disagrea.
So infact pullmans novels provide a world in which spirituality without god is perfectly valid, thus he address the isue of god by stating that god is not neicery, nor in his universe dose any actual god exist. | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/19/2008 7:41:59 PM |
What I meant when I reacted to your dismissal, was that however much YOU might know, people who express disagreement with you aren't necessarily doing so out of ignorance (relative or otherwise). Only when it becomes incredibly clear to me that those people are speaking out of a lack of knowledge, then do I point this out. First, I point out the facts. Most people who know a lot about history will agree with me. Or, they will quote a source that clearly shows they know the subject quite well, such as if the quote Gibbons' Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, or if they give even a few lines that shows they know what they are talking about. But a lot of people just state things as if they are fact, without any indication of what they are talking about.
Actually it does, they also go on to state that the prime mover is extant of his world. The Pulman universe was created by and from dust. Dust then affects everything in the universe but is not in itself a figure of godhead, so pullman creates a universe where the prime mover is nothing more than a natural force and the first sentient entity to arive takes credit for the creation of the universe because there is no one to disagrea. Then the Pullman universe is the same as our universe, because our universe is made from "dust", being proto-matter, stardust, and dark matter. Such "dust" affects everything in our universe too, by the forces of gravity, electromagnetism, the strong force and the weak force. However, what "dust" doesn't explain, is why things should happen in this way at all.
It's like walking along and finding a set of bricks. The next day, you find the bricks have become a house. Where did the bricks come from? Who built the house? Where did the mortar between the bricks in the walls of the house come from? Where did the pipes in the house come from? Why was the house built? Will someone come and live there? Will they be friendly?
Since the questions that everyone asks about our universe are just as applicable to Pullman's universe as to our own, how does Pullman answer the questions that everyone else has? | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/22/2008 5:22:27 PM |
I remember Jesus in the temple being mighty ticked off at the money changers making a mockery out of something that He deemed sacred. He went in there and literally threw them out violently. I would say He definitely went off on them. There was no unconditional lah-de-dah, do whatever you like and I have to show tolerance, patience, and passivity, and never express what I really think, there.
Jesus didn't get upset or seek revenge, he did things to teach people that's what he was there for. He taught to turn the other cheek and also love thy enemy. How can you get upset someone you truly love? Unconditional true love.
I am not attacking Christians I am merely pointing things in the bible
Christians are not all cut from the same cloth.
I never said that what's your point?
Some of us do not fit your stereotypical molds-- and some of us will tell you exactly what we think, quite firmly, in fact.
stereotypical molds? You are making assumptions I am only stating what I have seen and experienced.
Of course your entitled to your opinion but don't try to force people to change this is what most Christians seem to do. If Christianity is so great why are some Christians also studying and following Buddhism? | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 2/22/2008 5:36:47 PM | I saw no hate for Christianity at all in the Golden Compass, It is a Fairy Tale, a new age Fairy tale, but beautifully done, People make much too much out of a story.
I found the movie joyful. Thought provoking, breathtakingly filmed, flying polar bears with armor, who could ask for more? And as a fiber artist, the costumes were fabulous, I just loved the movie, took my grandson, he loved it also.
You want to talk about hating God? Watch the evening news. | |
|
| |
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 6/8/2008 3:19:45 AM | | So let me get this straight. Promoting "anti god" messages to children equals some sort of hatred in your mind? How is it any different than brainwashing children to follow a ridiculous fairy tale as if it could actually be true. This is why I have grown to hate so-called christians like you. Any person that believes anything other than you automatically has no value and is horrible. I think it's despicable to teach intolerance to children, which is all christianity seems to be good for. | |
|
| |
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 6/8/2008 7:07:59 AM | | I don't know about promoting hate.....the film does seem to promote a fair bit of paranoia among some of the faithfull...which hardly seems surprising I guess. There is a new episode of the Narnia franchise...so I guess there will be another Pullman film adaptation in due course, to keep the controversy going....Watch this thread!!! | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 6/9/2008 4:10:07 PM | The Christians did the same thing to the pagans in the old days, demonizing their Gods. Many still do. One author happens to swap positions where Christianities God is being demonized and all of a sudden there is an outcry? Welcome to a pagan's world.
It's just a story anyway. If the Christian's are doing a good job of educating their children about their God, then they will know that this is just a story, not to be seen as a reality. | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 6/9/2008 6:37:36 PM | | wikedwitch8027: The problem is that christians can't tell fantasy from realty. They do believe in "god" and the bible after all. This is probably why they're taking yet another work of fiction so seriously. | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 6/9/2008 6:50:32 PM |
It is NOT your right to try to fill our children's minds with hate for God!
Is it your right to fill children's minds with love for God? Because you have a faith is it right to dictate that to your child before they have the mental capacity to choose their own path?
CHILDREN CANNOT THINK FOR THEMSELVES! They become what we make them by careful molding of their delicate personalities.
Instilling the fear into children that they will go to hell if they are bad isn't a careful molding of delicate personalities so they are too frightened to actually develop their own personalities, instead live in fear - and that's what it is - fear. Zealots end up mindless and unforgiving if anything isn't Christian (or Jewish or Muslim, etc) - This is the way to bring up Children?
Phillip Pullman has the right to create any story he wants - without prosecution. The same way religious people have the right to make any story they want - the thing is, for some insane reason, because of a lack of separation of church and state, Pullman will actually have to pay taxes on the money he makes. He is not attacking a group of people that can't defend themselves and he is not being racially prejudicial, he is writing a story about what he wants.
Did you attack 'Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' this way? Or was it too entertaining and far fetched for you to even care.
So what if he says there is no God. So What? Then guess what you do - the same thing I do on Sunday morning when I don't want to hear the televangelists - I change the channel. | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 6/10/2008 7:29:12 AM |
Since the questions that everyone asks about our universe are just as applicable to Pullman's universe as to our own, how does Pullman answer the questions that everyone else has?
How dose CS Lewis answer them?
Or JRR Tolkien?
Or Ray Bradbury or Nick Harkaway or James Fergusson or Khaled Hosseini or Gerald Seymour or Armistead Maupin?
Shall I tell you? The answer is, that unless it is directly relivant to thier story, if it is not an intresgal part of the fantasy, then they do not answer it.
Philip Pulmans fantasy world is precily that. A fantasy world. He never pretends it is anything more than a story. He dose not answer questions about spirituality and religion in the stories that do not have a direct baring on the story.
So Pulman dose not go into anymore detail on dust than... Its the first stuff in the universe and the first conciousness formed out of it... because he dose not need to for the story. The story is about the decipt of an angel like being, not about the orogins of the universe.
Pulmans world is a fiction. Armistead Maupin retends it is anything more than that, so please do not try to read more than that into it because it is not there.
| |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 6/10/2008 1:00:55 PM |
I think it's despicable to teach intolerance to children, which is all christianity seems to be good for.
That last sentence is so wonderfully illustrative of your intolerance. Ironic really.
Anyway, re the movie, I think it promotes an anti-bureaucracy and pro-liberalism message. It could as much about Fascism, Socialism, the current "us v them" mentality in the US under the 'war on terror" or nay number of systems that seek to rob others of their freedom to think as they see fit "for their own good". | |
|
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 6/11/2008 3:24:36 AM | | romantic: I'm VERY intolerant towards christian brainwashing but my point was that I would never ram my beliefs or opinions into a child's head. That's the problem with religion. Just because I've reached the point where I have no patience for religious garbage doesn't mean I would beat my kid over the head with it. Children should be left to choose their own path. No real "irony" in my statement. | |
|
|
|
|
Page
10
of
11 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
|
|
Home
login 
