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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/5/2007 11:52:16 PM | I probably would not have bothered seeing the Golden Compass, but for reading this thread.......so, thank you, Ultruist for bringing it to my attention. I saw The Lion, The Witch and The Wardobe a year or so ago, and was rather disapponted by it, even though it did star Cate Blanchet. I found the C.S. Lewis adaptation very bland, and all too predictable for my liking, even though the film's production values were quite good.
As to the Golden Compass promoting hate....I'll reserve my judgement until I read the book, or see the film.
I find it very strange that a theist is complaining about a piece of contemporary literature allegedly promoting (religious) hate, when the ambiguity and the contradictory nature of some of the "great" sacred texts have enabled actual hate over the millenia. One could argue that that the sacred texts ought to be banned because of the intolerances that they actually promote.  | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/6/2007 4:30:30 PM |
Actually, if you are not baptised in the faith, you will not go to heaven. If saying someone will rot in hell for all eternity because they are not baptised in your specific church is not "propoganda [that] promotes exclusion and separation", what is it, exactly? I am going to my Heaven. If you believe in your faith, get baptised. If you don't want to get baptised by your faith, doesn't that mean that you really don't believe in it at all? So why do you think you are going to Hell, based on a faith you don't really believe in?
I think the point was that if movies such as this are objected to on the basis that they teach negative messages about a religion, how is Christianity any better when it teaches children that they will burn in eternal hell if they don't believe a certain way. Not adults... CHILDREN.
I'm not Christian, and yet my children could flip through television channels at any time of day or night and hear the "punishment" for not having Jesus as their personal saviour.
Is that not comparable? | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/7/2007 12:55:56 PM |
Considering the bible is one of the most violent and popular books ever written that promotes murder, rape, genocide, infanticide, injustice, ethnic cleansing, racism, slavery, homophobia and many other atrocities, this particular thread is one of those amusing examples of extreme hypocrisy.
Ok, so im a christian. Im not the most religious christian there is (i dont go to church every sunday, dont get to read my bible every day and, yes, gasp, i do listen to secular/non-christian music). Let me point out one thing though. I have read the bible. Pretty good book actually. And while, yes, it does mention all of these things, I challenge you to show me exactly where it PROMOTES any of these things. Most of the things you pointed out are found in the old testament (which is considered sacred by christians, jews, and, stop me if Im wrong, but muslims as well). Its all historical accounts of things that actually happened! Not things that christians (or jews, etc) promote. Show me where it is.
Now this is a thread on The Golden Compass so here is my opinion. Its a circumstance similar to that of Harry Potter, Saved, and The Last Temptation of Christ. If I had a dollar for every time christians attacked mainstream media, i could quit my day job. I havent read the book or seen the movie to argue very well. I do know that as much as I dont support anti-christian (or anti-semite or anti-anything for that matter) material, I'm a soldier in an army that protects the right of the american people to express that opinion. So boo to hate material (if that is what this is, which Im not positive it is), but boo to censorship as well!
forgive the long reply, its not my usual nature. | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/7/2007 1:03:52 PM |
Its all historical accounts of things that actually happened!
This thread needed some humor. Thanks!! | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 156 | |
| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/7/2007 1:28:07 PM | | A friend of mine has just read the first book, he does find it hard to work out what people would find offensive in it. Apparently there are a number of sites by fans where the fans are complaining because the anti christian content has been removed from the movie .. So what is the point of this thread. | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/7/2007 8:02:30 PM | I just got back from seeing the movie.
It was whitewashed on the surface but there was enough there for the astute viewer to see that the Magisterium is the church.
I also thought that the movie was poorly laid out, reducing characters to a mere couple lines of dialog; and giving Christopher Lee a headline billing despite of the fact that you see him for all of 30 seconds, little more the a cameo.
They also choose to put off the last three chapters of the book until the second movie, something which makes for a very lame ending. The ending of the book as it was, with the betrayal and death is a powerful place to leave people, making them want more. The way it did end just left me wondering: "is that all?" | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/7/2007 8:26:17 PM | altruist80, as you said, kids 9 to 13 is the target range. So how many kids you know who can afford the price of the ticket without a parents help? Let the parents raise their kids while you join Bin Laden in a cave some place fighting the evils of the movie industry cause it speaks against god.
I got a dog named Jesus, a teddy bear named "the prophet" and my black cats other name is "mohammed", don't like it, too bad thats my choice.
When your told not to think your brain is dead. | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/8/2007 6:38:36 AM | Most people think that they got the ultimate truth. When it comes to religion – the grass is always greener on our own side!!  This is why we shouldn’t make any movies about religious matters such as God, Angels, Satan, souls, life after death and so on. It would always anger some people when it doesn’t go along with their way of thinking.
I agree that a child’s mind can be influenced through what they watch and experience. However, we live in a free society. So unless something is directly promoting hate and violence towards a particular group or religion – I don’t think we should try to restrict it.
The first thing a parent should tell their kids before taking them to a movie is that – “it is all fantasy – it is not real”. Once being told – I think all kids should be able to handle almost any kind of fantasy stories. However, in some extreme situation where a kid lingers on in the fantasyland – there is still nothing to worry!! He would eventually snap out of it. We don’t see many kids continuing to try to fly like superman or believe in Santa Claus when they grow old.
Have faith in you kids – they are usually smarter than you think!!
I, personally haven’t seen the movie yet – but what I hear about every human having a co-companion entity or something - Well! that sounds interesting. I personally believe in such a concept myself.
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/8/2007 8:42:51 AM |
First off, yes, I am a Christian. I have posted a few times here, and the first thing I learned was to phrase my viewpoint without drawing fire. I'm sorry. I can't help it this time. I was not only disgusted with what I learned about this movie, but also deeply sadened. I can't believe they are targeting children with anti-God propoganda. I can't describe how hurt I am that a hate-promoting author has made it into the mainstream media with a deliberate attempt to remove God from the minds of our children.
This movie is based on the first book of a children's trilogy called His Dark Materials by Phillip Pullman. In the final book, the children deem God (not just God, they call Him by name, Yahweh) evil, and devise a plan to destroy Him. For any who don't know about the name Yahweh, this is the name of the God of Abraham, the God of the Christians. (originally YHWH in the Hebrew texts)
The movie is set for release on December 7, 2007.
Phillip Pullman stated he wants to kill God in the minds of children. The movie removed the anti-God, anti-church themes so it would appeal to a wider audience. The mainstream speculation is that he intends for the movie to promote the books, thereby giving the children the uninhibited story when they read them.
CHILDREN CANNOT THINK FOR THEMSELVES! They become what we make them by careful molding of their delicate personalities.
I know some aethiests will fire on me for this, but what propaganda has Christianity unleashed upon children that promotes exclusion and separation from people who aren't Christians? We don't teach our children to disbelieve and hate. We don't teach them to hate Allah, Buddah, and aetheism. We try not to give them negativity.
It is your right to believe what you will, just as it is your right to smoke or drink, but these industries are forbidden to advertise to target audiences of under-age consumers. It is NOT your right to try to fill our children's minds with hate for God!
It would be nice if the religious actually read,heard or saw what they were talking about BEFORE they commented.
But I guess that's the domain of the intellectual....
See the movie and the read the book...
Then you'll know what the hell you're talking about | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/8/2007 11:08:18 AM | The Chritian bible promotes hate.
Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
KJV Exodus 22:18
18. Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. KJV Deuteronomy 18:9-12
9. When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
I really have to wonder if Christians understand or if they have even read their Bible.
The Bible also contains some pretty erotic softcore porn in the Song of Solomon.
Song of Solomon
Chapter 1
Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.
Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.
Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.
...
Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies.
Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments is like the smell of Lebanon
A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
Thy plants are an orchard of pomegranates, with pleasant fruits; camphire, with spikenard.
[this speaks to the de=flowering of his virgin bride^]
My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him
Thy navel is like a round goblet, which wanteth not liquor: thy belly is like an heap of wheat set about with lilies.
Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins.
Do I resally need to post more?
How about the 500 years of the Crusades?
HOW about the 850 years of the Inquisitions?
That ended in 1908, yes 1908, Edmonton and Alberta were foumded in 1905.
Banning books is what HItler did, but then again Cardinal Ratzenberger, the new Pope was a NAZI, yes factualy he volunteered for the Hitler youth, [ a sub-set of the WAFFEN SS] even tho he was exempt because he was in the seminary.
He ended up as a part of an anti-aircraft battery shooting down allied airplanes that were trying to bomb the BMW werks factory.
He was captured and imprisoned as a war criminal by Allied forces.
And now he is the Pope
And now the Catholic Church has re-instated the Latin Mass which by all accounts is anti-Semitic and is banning books, go figure, history repeats itself. | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/8/2007 11:14:53 AM | Actually, Christians have created much hate in my people. I'm pagan, and I've personally seen pamphlets handed out by Christians that teach them we hate God, that we sacrifice living people, and that we worship the devil. I do none of these things.
I'm also in the military, and was asked not to put my religion on my dogtags because they didn't want me and the Christians to butt heads, even though I'm somewhat of a pacifist when it comes to other's beliefs.
If you like, I can give you a link to one pamphlet that was put on the internet by a Christian organization.
You live in a world where freedom of speech is allowed. Is it any more right for a child to have God pounded into his/her head from the day they're born? | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/8/2007 12:46:30 PM |
The Chritian bible promotes hate Not sure how you haven't been jumped on yet for saying it, but I must say... you have done a fine job at pointing out the incredible irony.. nice! Oh, and love the name! Lol... | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/8/2007 3:38:32 PM | yea ravenstar's post kind of shows this guy to be a censoring crackpot. Christianity can exclude those of specific sexual orientations or those that believe in many gods, or religions that do not believe in heaven and hell.
Altruist is blowing small parts of the puzzle way out of proportion to censor. Parents do not HAVE to buy this book. It is Their Choice not yours. What you said about how children cannot think for themselves and have fragile mentalities is a reason NOT to teach about religion at such a young age, to be honest. | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/9/2007 6:57:51 AM | OP: This movie was a far cry from Atheism and anti-bibical propaganda.
It promoted trust, patience and courage in what you believe.
This movie is not the book. Adult mistrust based on religious upbringing
was questioned. A child's view would not go beyond the fictional fantasy.
This story will no more mold our children,than the "Wizard of Oz " molded you.
Your fear is nothing more than...(Should I repeat it?)..."Adult mistrust based
on religious upbringing." | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/9/2007 1:12:45 PM | | One of my biggest pet peeves is people talk about something that they know nothing about but only what they see on the news. | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/11/2007 7:09:41 PM | I just saw the movie and I thought it was pretty good. It was alot different from the book, go fig. It does seem that many of the themes were watered down, but I understand how some of the people could get put off by the political messages in the movie.
many of the scenes were cut short and re-arranged. the ending of the movie is defiantly not like the end of the 1st book.
though the bears personality was the same.
if you do read the book, see the movie 1st, then read the book. | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/11/2007 7:30:59 PM | Read the books, watch the movie, and then think before you write what your pastor told you to write.
His stories are about the need for people to embrace individualism in their spiritual journey, rather than following a certain Shepherd like the rest of your fellow sheep bound for the slaughterhouse (am I the only one who notices this imagery as being a bit of a cult-like idea, the whole Lord is my Shepherd thing?).
The proverbial slaughterhouse is exactly what she nearly gets caught up in, but she's able to escape, and then the real fun parts of the story begin.
You really should do your own thinking, otherwise you're as good as possessed, are you not?
~ David | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/12/2007 9:44:05 AM | I watched the movie. Not bad, but not great either.
The Magisterium was an organization of crooked, evil people bent on controlling everybody and spreading misinformation in order to keep everyone under their thumb. If someone claims that the Magisterium represents their church then they seem to be admitting that their church is guilty of such things. | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/12/2007 11:04:59 AM | I firstly would like to say I have read enough posts on this thread to last me a lifetime!!
I have researched the film and read things from all perspectives.
I am a christian and jew. (ask me later)
My son has chance to see this film with the rest of the school on friday morning of this week. I dont have to pay either. He is 12 years old. After reading I am debating about whether to let him watch it. His reply is 'Its only a film!' As for killing God. To all you much loved christians out there. In the bible it mentions of people trying to kill God.
Forces of good and evil are already in the bible!!!!!
So what makes this film different now????????
Besides from my research its mainly the catholic church it persecutes which is pagan anyhow!!! Im not a catholic!!! | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/12/2007 2:08:32 PM | ^^
Forces of good and evil are already in the bible!!!!!
So what makes this film different now???????? It would seem that some have missed that point, yes....
Besides from my research its mainly the catholic church it persecutes which is pagan anyhow!!! Hmmmm.... it might be a good idea to back such statements up with said research ;) | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/12/2007 2:50:29 PM | | I have a great problem with 'movies of the book', partly because they never seem to do it justice, visually or verbally. I also know there are technical problems for this on both counts, so let me ask something: is this movie from His Dark Materials and renamed for the movie or what? I’m slightly confused now. Lol! | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/12/2007 3:47:20 PM | Yeah, yeah, yeah, old testament promotes hate, there were religious wars, blah blah blah blah.
1. There's really a new testament, people. Yeah, the olden days sucked. Wow, we didn't know that before, did we? One really has to be judicial about what should be taken literally and what should be taken contextually in the Bible. Just like all literature, one gets from the Bible what one puts into the Bible. One can get hegelian, marxist, queer theory, etc whatever one wants to take from the Bible so long as it's held to a certain formula. I haven't seen a freudian approach to the Bible, but I'm sure it's there. I concur with Augustine when he says that one can tell a good reading of the Bible so long as the final message of it is love.
2. OH NO! There's a friggin' love poem in the Bible! The world is coming to an end! I really fail to see the point you are trying to make.
3. On the matter of the Crusades: do some actual research, man. The Crusades really weren't as terrible as people make them out to be, and they sure weren't as religiously empowered as everyone seems to think. Heck, the majority of the Crusades weren't even funded by the Church. Further, the Middle East really didn't even think about the Crusades as being as horrible as they were until they met with Western culture and realized they could milk it for all it's worth. It was a series of wars just like any other. Heck, the Crusades are repercussions of events that had happened around 700 years before the first crusade. Look up Rethinking the Crusades by Jonathan Riley Smith and The Real History of the Crusades by Thomas F. Madden. Those are two good sources to figure out just what actually everything was about. Stop pretending like the Crusades were the most horrible thing to ever happen.
4. The Inquisitions. Yeah, shit happens. Don't care. Not exactly specific to religion that the sort of thing would ever happen. How about McCarthyism? How about Maoism? This sort of 'witch hunt' isn't really anything that has only just been done by the Church.
5. Yeah, I know: Benedict XVI has an unfortunate past. But redemption is one of the deeper points of Catholicism, is it not? Someone can have done terrible things in the past, but through the grace of God, they turn around. I mean, look at some of the greatest saints, including Saint Paul, St. Augustine, etc.
6. I... really can't understand how a Latin Mass is anti-semitic... it's a return to tradition. Tradition is one of the larger things the Church holds onto. A Latin Mass is also by no means mandatory. It is completely optional. The Vatican, I am sure, will often do it, but otherwise I have seen nothing. Further, I guess I'm just slow on this, but I haven't really heard of that happening. Who knew, eh?
I guess what I'm really getting at is stop attacking the Church for the hell of it. And yes, I am Roman Catholic and I like to think of myself as more informed than most.
On the subject of the Golden Compass, I can state that the movie will receive none of my money. This isn't because of religious connotations, but just because I heard it was a terribly done movie. Also, I've read all those books and while they weren't bad, I guess I could simply call them pretentious. The later books were obviously against the Church, but I shrugged it off because it's a book. I really am not about to have my faith shaken because Philip Pullman says it should be. Anyway, those are my 2 cents.
-Steve the Pirate | |
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| Golden Compass Promotes Hate
Posted: 12/12/2007 7:09:04 PM | Christianity promotes hate as well!
Look at the crusades! Look at the southern christian groups who think homosexuals, athiests, anyone who isnt a christian will go to hell and burn for eternity.
Look at people who think they are saving others from an eternity of damnation if they are able to convert them.
Christianity does indeed propogate hate. Alot of members dont share the same views as these people, but get over it. It's just a movie. Just because a movie has a certain view does not mean it will promote hate. Just like your a christian. It doesnt mean that you have to fall in line with the religious biggots that are prominant (or more so then the northern regions ) in the souther regions of the US. | |
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