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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 12:43:33 AM | Before I answer the original question here I would like to know something....
When scientists believed they found Noah's arc in the past decade, why were the christians against the find? This would prove the bible is indeed true, right?
Here's another one...when Mel Gibson released A Passion for the Christ, again why were the christians against the movie without even watching it? Talk about judging others, I thought judging was a sin? Hmmm.
Now here's something I bet not many of you know....how many of you bible lovers have piercings of some sort...guess what? It's a sin if you have them. Yup, not makin it up, but the church my fiance's family goes to says "IT" was a sin but now it's acceptable. I'm waiting for homosexuals to be acceptable....lol!!!
I'm engaged to a woman that is catholic. My background is catholic. I admit I don't know the difference between a catholic, christian and budda, but if they all could agree that God created everything, then why the different religions? Anyway, back to the fiance...her family goes to church every sunday for an hour. But the rest of the week they sin in so many ways. None of them even read a bible. I did when I was younger to make my own decision if it's for me or not.
My answer is it's hard to believe a book that has NO evidence what so ever. I have a hard time that hungry lions didn't eat Daniel (I think that's his name), that only a young man by the name of David killed a Goliath but soldiers couldn't, and a guy with super strength loses his strength when his hair was cut....that sounds like a comic book to me. The bible makes the planet seem in the thousands of years old while evidence says completely different. There's no mention of dinosaurs in the bible, yet there's proof of them, go to any museum to see it.
I understand that people need something to believe in and have faith in it and that's dandy. But I don't agree with religion to be outside one's home and church. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 12:56:19 AM |
So you believe in the bible, do you? Very well. I want to hear your explanation for what system you use to pick and chose what parts of the bible you consider acceptable and why you reject other parts and teachings.
I don't believe you. I believe you don't want to hear the explanation. Rather, you want to use stuff like this to justify being able to choose your own value system.
For example, god commanded a man to be stoned to death for working on the Sabbath (NU 15:32-36), whereas he was just picking fire wood to build a fire and keep warm. Imagine his terror and pain as his fellow man threw rocks at him until he died, at the command of this 'god' of yours. You claim to believe in the bible and it's teachings, therefore you must agree it's good to stone someone to death for working on Sabbath, right? After all god is good and therefore this example must be. Today we will chose a system called "context." Everything has a context. We are not in the ancient nation of Israel today. Therefore, not one person on this forum believes that we should stone someone for working on the Sabbath. However, I do believe that God's judgment was the most right thing to do under the circumstance of that day, which you have no idea of the importance of what God was doing. In this example, God was creating a nation that was to be an example to the entire world. One of the laws this nation was to adhere to was the Sabbath. This man was collecting wood (not likely to keep warm--all he would have to do was visit a neighbor to keep warm) but for cooking purposes. God took his life as an example to all the rest of the nation. He did not kill everyone for Sabbath breaking later on. However, when it came to first time events, God always did take strong measures in order to show how important it was to him, and to strike fear into the rest. You may think that this was harsh on God's part. However, it was not harsh, it was showing love. It is like the parent who does not discipline his or her child. It is not love to not discipline. In the case of the man was picking up sticks right after the covenant was made and the people had the Sabbath demonstrated to them by God providing extra manna on Friday, and preventing the the extra manna from decay on the Sabbath. He was adequately warned. if others see this example and it has no punishment, they would begin to do the same thing. Then, as the nation lost sight of right and wrong, it would also lose God's blessing. He would not protect them in war. He would not heal them of their diseases when they were sick. He would not bless their crops. He gave this lesson for Israel of old in hopes that they would take his word seriously and obey Him as they had agreed to do so that He could bless them and make them the greatest nation on earth. As God laments: Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! So, here God frees these people from slavery. He blesses them with gold and jewels and livestock from the Egyptians. He makes a covenant with them, and they agree to follow His rules. He provides manna every day for them to eat. Then if they don't obey Him, you don't think He should punish them. Or--perhaps you think it should have been a lighter sentence. But, of course, you know better than God. You are a nicer person than God, smarter, wiser, a better judge. Perhaps you are among those who do not think that criminals should be punished in our country today. We have moved to a point now where the criminals are protected, and the victims suffer. Maybe you like that, but you don't see the moral decline that has occurred in America because we have not punished law breakers. Crime is worsening, it is getting more violent, it is crossing the lines of Politicians and Businessmen alike. And you probably think our nation and economy will just continue on the same. It won't. The nation will suffer terribly for our lax position on criminals in the future. The principle involved is that because punishment is not executed quickly, the people become more and more evil. God did what He did to protect the rest of the people and the future society. I can provide you with many more examples (many of them far more horrific) from the bible, perhaps you'll be willing to explain why you ignore those as well (or perhaps you don't, and then you should be arrested as a sociopath). It seems to me that you are the harsh one here. Someone posts respecting the Bible and its God and you call them names like sociopath? It is interesting to me to consider that a sociopath does not know the right from wrong. But, here you are judging and condemning God Himself the author of morality. Could it be transference? Art | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 12:57:32 AM | It took some searching, but you can add this to the references:
http://sermoncentral.com/illustration_topic_results.asp?TopicName=Bible+&category_name=Statistics&topic_id=10
"only 1 out of 10 claim to study the Bible weekly and fewer than 1 out of 25 devote themselves to memorizing at least one new Bible verse per week. (The Pastor’s Weekly Briefing, 12/12/97)"
In itself, this doesn't mean a whole lot. It's open to interpretation what the significance of each measure is, and each will vary by church, location, culture, etc. I think the point is, and it's one made by a number of faith-based websites as well: the people claiming the Bible as an authority frequently don't know what they're claiming because they simply don't have much knowledge or understanding of what it contains. I think it likely that those who ARE well-read in the Bible are quite likely to know more people who are also more familiar with the subject. People tend to associate with those who have the same interests, so the observations may not apply to the population as a whole.
edit -
When scientists believed they found Noah's arc in the past decade, why were the christians against the find?
This is entertaining, actually. "Scientists" made no such claim. A select few people with religious agendas and little scientific knowledge or skill [and zero scientific method] have made the unsupported claim. Ironically, mainstream churches had the sense to actually review the evidence and agree that the claims are unsupported. Individuals with faith and little knowledge have no problem making claims. Religious authorities, however, often have a lot of knowledge, and appreciate that supporting bad science hurts them far more than it helps them. To my knowledge, the Vatican even has its own astronomical observatory, run by astronomers who are also Catholic priests.
It may not be directly pertinant, but there is a saying: Keep your friends close...and your enemies closer. That which you ignore or don't understand is more likely to cause your downfall. That is the case with the church and science. If the church were to claim scientific support for claims of faith they would be quite publicly proven wrong, undermining their position and refuting the assertion that all that matters is faith. On the other hand, I would suspect that the Vatican (for one) would argue that understanding God's creation through science is generally desireable in itself.
It's like if I started a new religion, got people to believe it, and then told them that the New Testament was in fact the Middle Testament and that a new set of books written by my followers was the New New Testament
Give it a shot. Maybe you could call it the "Book of Mormon" or something.
What? It's been done??! | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 1:06:10 AM | So, let me see if I understand this. You don't like God. Ok, but do you think that your prejudice might just be blinding you?
let me ask you this, do you think it is moral or good to kill people? What about men, women, elderly, children and babies?
Answer: The Sixth commandment says not to murder. God is against murder.
The bibical god has encouraged and directly ordered people to do exactly that on multiple occasions (I can provide you with bible quotes if you wish). Therefore, if you believe the bible's teachings, if anyone kills men, women, elderly, children and babies, it's okay so long as that person is doing so at god's command, right?
Has the state killed people for breaking the law? Yes. Are you against that?
Have we killed men women, elderly, children and babies to protect our way of life in war? Yes. Are you against that?
Why be against the creator killing people who had degenerated so far, that they were a menace themselves and others? God kills people who were putting their children in the fire? He kills people who had become so violent that it had become a way of life? You think He is wrong for that?
I think God was right. And I think you are wrong.
Art | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 1:06:38 AM |
Perhaps you are among those who do not think that criminals should be punished in our country today. We have moved to a point now where the criminals are protected, and the victims suffer. Maybe you like that, but you don't see the moral decline that has occurred in America because we have not punished law breakers. Crime is worsening, it is getting more violent, it is crossing the lines of Politicians and Businessmen alike. And you probably think our nation and economy will just continue on the same. It won't. The nation will suffer terribly for our lax position on criminals in the future.
Actually in part you're right - criminals shouldn't be punished. Not in most situations anyway. They should be rehabilitated. The rise in crime in the United States is a direct result of having a primarily punitive rather than correctional justice system.
The United States has some of the most strict laws in the Western world and yet has the highest crime rate in the entire world. More people are in prison in the United States than in any other country. We have murder rates higher than many Third World countries. This is due to exactly what you're advocating - harsher punishment with no emphasis on prevention or correction.
Harsh punishments, in and of themselves, have been proven time and time again to fail. They don't rehabilitate criminals. They don't prevent future crime. Nor do they prevent recidivism rates when criminals leave jail. Decent correctional programs and prevention programs, which the United States totally ignores, due to the dogmatic attitude you endorse, have been shown to work. This is why crime rates in other First World countries are lower and why they manage to keep crime rates lower even with less restrictive laws.
Moral decline is a result of moral underdevelopment. Christianity, as a system, is morally underdeveloped. Attitudes such as yours, which are essentially rooted in Christianity, actually contribute to not only moral decline but further criminal activity. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 1:10:16 AM |
Has the state killed people for breaking the law? Yes. Are you against that?
Most civilized countries consider capital punishment to be barbaric. It doesn't exist in many First World countries anymore. Even Mexico doesn't execute it's criminals.
Have we killed men women, elderly, children and babies to protect our way of life in war? Yes. Are you against that?
Deliberately killing non-combatants in wartime for any reason is a war crime.
What you've listed here are just examples of how your moral compass is totally whacked. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 5:47:25 AM |
why do people want to argue the bible
This is something I once read regarding people who argue against the Bible....Ready...Copy....Paste:
We, as a people, need to be more savvy about the motives behind such actions. My lack of Bible scholarship notwithstanding, I can earnestly say that these attacks can only come from a source of bad and not good. Why are these men so intent on revealing the supposed truth? Are our freedoms so compromised by believing in a book such as the Bible? Is there really so much harm done in trying to follow its teachings and precepts? Think for a second. Who would dare to take the chance that the Bible was untrue and attack it, risking, let us say, that small chance or no chance—in their eyes—that they are wrong and God is right? If so many good people depend on such a worthy book to help them on a daily basis, and with all the claims of how such a book has done good in their lives, are these men so presumptuous and self-righteous as to dare attack its veracity?
Children believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny up till a certain age. Do we dare attack these cherished beliefs because we know otherwise? We uphold these out of love for our children, our grandchildren, our nephews and nieces. Do such men really want to attack something that they cannot prove untrue, relying only on their oft errant intuition, and in doing so, destroy the cherished belief of billions? Think about it. What makes more sense? Let the people believe and leave their cherished beliefs alone. For this is good. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 8:57:10 AM | | If you can't even get two diffrent christian Chruches to agree on what the Bibe says, why would you expect anyone outside the Faith to argree? | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 9:14:08 AM |
"still tends to miss the real message. Go figure."
And the real message would be???
And Freya goes for the three point shot aaaand... nothing but net!! That was beautiful.
SuzzzieQ, rather than address your whole post, about which whole books have been written, I'll just put the shoe on the other foot. Replace the word "Bible" in your post with "Koran." Then read it. | |
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mak68
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Joined: 10/9/2007
Msg: 36 | |
| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 9:20:35 AM |
We, as a people, need to be more savvy about the motives behind such actions. My lack of Bible scholarship notwithstanding, I can earnestly say that these attacks can only come from a source of bad and not good. Why are these men so intent on revealing the supposed truth?
So it is bad to question things that may, or may not be contradictory? It is bad to point out what one sees as flaws? Criticism is evil ? Wow....
Are our freedoms so compromised by believing in a book such as the Bible?
It is when people use that bible to restrict the rights of others. There are seven US states that do not allow people to hold public office if they do not believe in a god. Why should I be restricted to public office if I don't believe?
Who would dare to take the chance that the Bible was untrue and attack it, risking, let us say, that small chance or no chance—in their eyes—that they are wrong and God is right?
Are you saying that I should not question things in the bible for the sake that I might be wrong?
Children believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny up till a certain age. Do we dare attack these cherished beliefs because we know otherwise? We uphold these out of love for our children, our grandchildren, our nephews and nieces.
Eventually, children grow out of those beliefs..
Do such men really want to attack something that they cannot prove untrue, relying only on their oft errant intuition, and in doing so, destroy the cherished belief of billions? Think about it.
Proving a negative again... sigh. Prove that the invisible microscopic telepathic yogurt bacteria isn't running the show. Oft errant intuition? How much intuition does one need to ask questions and make critiques? | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 9:38:19 AM |
I can earnestly say that these attacks can only come from a source of bad and not good
Quite often, the opposite is true. Those who attack the Bible or its followers, from what I have seen, do so because of the "bad" or outright evil perpetrated by those who claim the Bible as authority. I would consider it an overreaction, since idiots don't need to read two verses of the Bible in order to commit evil. I suspect there are far more people who do good in the name of the Bible, just as there are a great many who do good without making that claim. It's the same fallacy committed in reverse: cum hoc ergo propter hoc. Evil in the name of the Bible does not mean the Bible or anyone who follows it is evil. Nor does evil without the Bible show that the Bible is required or that non-believers are evil.
Is there really so much harm done in trying to follow its teachings and precepts? Think for a second. Who would dare to take the chance that the Bible was untrue and attack it, risking, let us say, that small chance or no chance—in their eyes—that they are wrong and God is right?
Pascals Wager doesn't work. I'm sure you've seen the various threads which explain why. Without outlining ALL of the possibilities in the wager, I'll address one condition which alwaysapplies to this wager.
You might be betting on the wrong god, and the right one is vengeful.
Unlike a casino wager, you have NO way of knowing what your chances are of being right or wrong, so you must assume that all possibilities are equal. Belief offers no advantage in odds over, for instance, atheism.
If so many good people depend on such a worthy book to help them on a daily basis,
The rational response to this is that these people are apparently incapable of being good otherwise. That's rather telling when there are VAST numbers of people who are "good" without believing one word of the Bible. There is also the reverse argument, of those who have depended on the Bible to do evil. They might be fewer in number, but their acts tend to be greater in scope, and they all believe they are doing "God's good work".
and with all the claims of how such a book has done good in their lives
The book itself? Doubtful, but if believing that helps, I think the number of people who take issue with this would be fairly small [though vocal].
are these men so presumptuous and self-righteous as to dare attack its veracity?
Nice word, veracity. It's far more self-righteous to claim veracity of the Bible than it is to attack it. The reason is, there is very little about the Bible which is demonstrably TRUE (ie, supported by evidence), while there is an abundance of things which are demonstrably FALSE (ie, denied by evidence).
relying only on their oft errant intuition
Supposition, not supported by evidence. This is just your opinion.
destroy the cherished belief of billions?
If those millions would kindly keep their beliefs off my doorstep, out of my governments' policies, out of my [well, not MY] bedroom, out of the schools I pay for...then I don't see a problem. As you say, "Let the people believe". There's no need to dissuade them if it gives them a comfort or motivation they couldn't get from an education. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 11:12:51 AM | | There are many many atheists and agnostics, who do not talk about religion and accept the beliefs of those around them as their choice. Then there are those who are seemingly obsessed with convincing Christians that the Bible is an unreliable source. As per the topic of the forum post “why do people want to argue the Bible” Its all about motive. I think I have a pretty good idea why Christians are evangelical. While I do not pretend to speak for all Christians, think about it…..if you truly believe that the Word of God is truth. If you really believe that Christ was the Messiah. If you really believed that accepting his gift of redemption leads to salvation and ultimately eternal life then one would be motivated to share that message, as it would be in the best interest of the people in this world. Motivation inspired by their love for mankind. With that being said….. one can only wonder….hmmmm....What is the motivation of those who go out their way to debunk the Word of God. Is their motivation inspired by their love for mankind? What DO THEY REALLY hope to accomplish? | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 11:23:43 AM | | What some hope to accomplish is to truly sett people free to see the a true path to enlightenment. To think for themselves and not be under the thumb of an antquated book written by broze age men in their attempt to make sense of the world around them. debunking the Bible is not bebunking the word of God. It is simply puttinng the Bible in it's proper context. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 11:48:23 AM | If you really believed that accepting his gift of redemption leads to salvation and ultimately eternal life then one would be motivated to share that message, as it would be in the best interest of the people in this world. Motivation inspired by their love for mankind. With that being said….. one can only wonder….hmmmm....What is the motivation of those who go out their way to debunk the Word of God. Is their motivation inspired by their love for mankind? What DO THEY REALLY hope to accomplish?
I, for one, do not poop on other people's parties. If Christians are communing and talking about how great it is to be in the faith, I leave them alone. If pagans get together to discuss their beliefs, I leave them be. However, this site is not a mutual admiration society. As I said, I don't crash threads where disagreement would be pointless and unwelcome. However, many threads here do invite disagreement, and disagree I will, if that's how I feel.
I am motivated by reason, logic, information, facts, an open mind, dislike for propaganda, dislike for hypocracy, dislike for ignorance, extreme dislike for willful ignorance, AND love for my fellow man. What do I hope to accomplish? I hope to share ideas, insight, information, and expose untruths, distortions, and inconsistencies. If people might question deeply held ideas as a result, great. If not, that's OK, too.
What do you hope to accomplish by appearing victimized by disagreement? | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 4:52:32 PM | What do you hope to accomplish by appearing victimized by disagreement?
Appearing victimized? No victim mentality here.....I simply stated why Christians "argue for the Bible". And then posted a question regarding the motives of those who argue against it. No personal attack on anyone. Just posted a question my friend...... Just posted a question.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
{quote]What some hope to accomplish is to truly sett people free to see the a true path to enlightenment
Hmmmm......true path to enlightenment???? Disbelief in the Word of God....hmmmm
"antquated book"?????? Did you mean.... antiquated book..... As I stated ....Just posted a question.......
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 4:58:10 PM | Plain and simple..
I will dispute anything that has loopholes large enough to fit universes in and contradicts itself so much that it starts to look as if it cannot figure out what it is.
I need no other reason than that.
~Freya  | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 5:51:17 PM |
The Bible contradicts physics, biology, geology, geophysics, astrophysics, history, archeology, common sense, morality, and itself. I have no idea why anyone would try to argue that it's true. Well, I'm Jewish so I can only answer for the Jewish Scriptures, the Old Testament. I'm also a scientist, and I have no difficulty reconciling the two.
However, I think that much of the Bible, since it was written in Hebrew, is written using idioms and poetry, and is not necessarily meant to be taken literally, word-for-word. Some of it is literally true, some of it is true in the sense that great literature is true.
You certainly need to read it in the original or a good translation to even get a feeling for what is happening. Most of the English translations are just terrible, and greatly distort the meaning. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 6:03:03 PM | I think it really depends on who you ask. Fundie Christians will argue in favor of the Bible because they believe it is God's inerrant word and contains the only way to salvation for all of humankind. I will dare to say that Christians who argue for that purpose have motives which are quite pure and do not deserve the berating that many of them get, regardless of how misguided they may be.
Having said that, however, there are also those mouthy Christians who make hateful, bigotted asses of themselves and unfortunately cause many people to view all Christians as hateful bigots, thus making their religion look a lot worse than it really is.
Those who argue against Bible seem to have a number of reasons for doing so. Some of them are pure of heart while others are not....hmmm...not that much different than those who argue in favor of it. There are some who wish to bring freedom of thought to those who are being held prisoner within the confines of religious indoctrination. Such individuals should be commended for being the mental and spiritual freedom fighters that they are, for their motives are quite pure.
The same cannot be said of those who are just being intellectual elitists just for the sake doing so. Or for that matter, those who wish to stamp out organized religion just because they have had bad experiences with it. Such individuals are not acting out of the purest of intents and thus end up doing just as much damage to their own cause as the mouthiest of Christians do to the Christian cause. To all who feel the need to debate such matters, I would ask this question. Are your motives selfish or selfless? To me it really does not matter if you are Christian, Pagan or Non-theist. What really matters is your MOTIVE.
It has been said before that there is a very thin line between love and hate. It is up to each one of us as individuals to ask ourselves which side of that line we are acting on. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 8:40:54 PM | I am a strong christian man. I know my bible Quite well.
But knoledge of the bible word for word is not as important as spiritual understanding.
Spiritual understanding can not be atained by reading the bible, but it dose helps us understand the bible. Without spiritual understanding it is imposible to understand God and the bible.
How do we obtain spirtual understanding? WE ask for it. With an honest, humble heart, asking God to reveal him self to us.
I deeply enjoy debating my faith, but only on a one on one basses, these forums just get to confusing, to many people yaking about things that they clearly do not understand.
"but the simple fact is, the christian religion is a mesh of pagon beliefs adopted to make the forced conversion of non believers easier to stomach."
This is a false statment that comes from a clear lack of understanding. This statment should read."""
but the simple fast is, the Catholic religion is a mesh of pagon beliefs adopted to make the forced conversion of non believers easier to stomach.
And ofcorse most churches have followed in their foot steps.
The True christian faith undefiled befor god, has no paganism in it, you will find no paganism in the bible, except where paganism is talked about as somthing we ought not to have any part of.
I chalange any one who honesty wants the truth to contact me through my profile and i will be more than happy to debate my faith with you on a one on one basses.
My faith is rock solid and can not be shaken. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 8:53:40 PM |
"but the simple fact is, the christian religion is a mesh of pagon beliefs adopted to make the forced conversion of non believers easier to stomach."
This is a false statment that comes from a clear lack of understanding. This statment should read."""
but the simple fast is, the Catholic religion is a mesh of pagon beliefs adopted to make the forced conversion of non believers easier to stomach.
And ofcorse most churches have followed in their foot steps.
The True christian faith undefiled befor god, has no paganism in it, you will find no paganism in the bible, except where paganism is talked about as somthing we ought not to have any part of.
I always find it fascinating when non-Catholic Christians bash on Catholics. It shows a real lack of understanding of the historical basis of your religion.
All forms of Christianity today are rooted in Catholicism. The Bible you read, thus the doctrines you read, was essentially created by Catholicism. The books that were chosen to make up your Bible and the books that were chosen to be left out were voted on by various councils of Orthodoxy. They were chosen to reflect early Catholic belief systems. The implication here is that the Bible is based on Catholicism, rather than any form of modern Christianity being based on the Bible.
No Christian groups today can demonstrate any historical link or roots to early Christian sects. What early Christians believed, we know from the historical record, was in many cases radically different from what Orthodoxy (and Catholicism) began to develop. It's certainly radically different from what most Christians believe today. For example, the belief that Jesus is divine (the Bianity doctrine) and the subsequent Trinity doctrine were voted on by Catholic councils. You can find no record of Christians believing in a divine Jesus or a Trinity in the first and second centuries CE. The doctrine arose a bit later. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 8:56:04 PM |
All of it? Some of it? Most of it? And what exactly does it contradict in each of the areas stated?
I'd say most of it. Now, whole books can be written about the contradictions the Bible has. So let's look at just one example from each category.
Physics
Gen 9:12-15 This is the story of the origin of rainbows. They were created as a sign of a covenant between god and man that god would never again destroy all life with a flood. This is not so. Rainbows are caused by light passing through water droplets causing a prismatic effect. This effect would have existed prior to the supposed flood.
Biology
Gen 30:37-43 This story says that you can make goats and sheep have spotted offspring by having them mate near spotted wood.
Geology
Gen 6:17 This is the start of the flood story where god promises to destroy all life on the planet (save Noah and his crew). Here's the problem. That takes a lot of water. This flood covered Mt Everest. You put that much weight on the Earth's surface and the Earth's surface is compressed. Remove that water and the Earth's surface rebounds. We know it rebounds because in places where there were glaciers we can measure this rebound. If the flood was global (which it would have to be to kill all life) this rebound would be detectable everyone at the surface. However, in places where there were no glaciers there is no rebound.
Geophysics
Matt 4:8 Jesus stands on top of a tall mountain and sees all the kingdoms of the world. That would only be possible if the Earth is flat. There are numerous other passages that indicate that the Earth is flat.
Astrophysics
Rev 6:13 According to the Bible all the stars in the sky can fall to the Earth.
History
According to Luke, Jesus was born around the time of the census of Quirinius. According to history this occurred in 6 AD. According to Matthew Jesus was born shortly before Herod died. History tells us that this happened in 4 BC. Either Jesus was born twice or the Bible contradicts history.
Archeology
The Bible has grand stories of Moses leading the Hebrews out of Egyptian bondage; Joshua leading them in a successful, and genocidal, invasion of Canaan; David ruling over an extremely powerfully united monarchy of Israel and Judah, etc. Archeology tells us that there was no mass exodus of Hebrews from Egypt; the Hebrews were Canaanites who gradually and peacefully became culturally separated from other Canaanites; David was a tribal chieftan of a backwater village, and that there was never a united monarchy, etc.
Common Sense
Snakes and donkeys don't talk. 'Nuff said.
Morality
Psalm 137:8-9 It's okay to dash babies against rocks. At least that's what King David thought. Hosea 13:16 has god agreeing with David.
Itself
Well there are hundreds of internal contradictions. Here's just one: Did Jesus tell his disciples to go barefoot without a staff, or to have a staff and sandals? Matt 10:10 and Luke 9:3 say barefoot and without a staff, but Mark 6:8-9 says the opposite. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 11:21:34 PM |
And the real message would be???
Be good to each other. Help one another. Be respectful and non-judgmental. Don't waste your time worshiping when you could be doing. | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 11:36:42 PM |
And the real message would be???
OK, I debated even arguing this further, but decided I would at least answer this question.
I am borrowing from something a truly wise man on here said to me. He is one of two christians that I have met that actually understands what the real message of christianity is.
"I've found this to be true, there is a being that has created all that is and all that will be. He's bigger and greater then anything that has or will exist and although mankind cannot agree to who or what or how many there are, it's in us to worship something greater then ourselves. I mean there is something encoded in every human to worship something greater then himself even if it's nothing more then a bigger image of himself. Why did they follow Jesus? Basically because of his walk. I mean I could get deeper but that's the jist of it. It's written in the bible "of all the commandments which is the greatest? and he replied, that he gives a new commandment and that was one of love. And if you think about it if I love you or treat you with love, I will do you no harm or wrong. If I treat you with love I can only uplift you."
Since I cannot, and will not, post his name, I say a general thank you to him, he knows who he is. He is of a very rare breed and it is a great honor of mine to claim him as a friend.
~Freya | |
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| why do people want to argue the bible
Posted: 11/19/2007 11:52:04 PM | There is no such thing as "the" Bible. There are many Bibles. Which one do you guys mean when you say "the" Bible?
The Upanishads?
Analects of Confucius?
Book of Mormon?
Bhagavad Gita?
Dianetics?
Avestas?
Torah?
Holy Qu'ran?
Course in Miracles?
If one, why not others? | |
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