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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 6:38:50 PM | OP I have to come back in... I am glad your lady friend.. Had enough Class ...Yep these are my words Class.. To not only offer, but insist.. No wonder the world is so screwed out here.
Disclaimer ONLY MY HUMBLE OPINION HERE
I have watched this post go from a guy asking help.. To if he wants my company he pays for it..
We can't have it both ways.. Women.. Why should the man pay for everything...
To me, not only is it tacky, give the impression of the old Saying Gold Digger...
Why don't you women that feel that a man pays ... Which by all means you are entitled to that logic. cough, cough Put it on your profile.. Would save alot of time and energy for the men..That are looking for a relationship that doesn't need to be bought.
2 of you ladies and yes, I use that word loosely in this comment.. Should be ashamed of yourselves..
You also have been out here along long time.. Maybe your attitudes are the reason why.
Back Strictly to Topic..
OP I so proud of this woman that stood up and treated you with the class you deserved. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 7:03:16 PM | ohhhhhhh.. lets just all go eat buck meals at McD's and call it a day...... | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 7:14:46 PM | I feel if you invited her out, she not not be responsible for anything. If she offers it should only be the tip. I think how far you have gone on the dates has nothing to do with it. She sounds like she wants to know you first and that she has morals.  | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 7:29:36 PM | | Unfortunately Sassy you also did not understand what us 2 LADIES were trying to say..OMG we only tried several times about the last paragraph he put.........he is the one that wanted the expensive restaurant, he asked her out, he then decided that since she makes 3 x what he makes that he would like for her to pay...so the point was why didnt he just come out and ask lets go dutch since its so expensive here when he first asked her.......Zea and I both said we do not have a problem paying half, but it was the way he approached the whole Idea..............In fact I have a friend that might be more, meeting me Sunday and since he lives on the other side of town and we plan on going to the mountains I offered for him to drive to my house and then we would take my car so he would not spend all the wear/tear and gas money(ummm sorry he refused and said no I asked you out so we will go in my truck, not a problem)...I asked are you sure cause I dont mind using my car, again he said no.......................so all of you that think Zea and I are so friggin bad can all kiss my butt, cause everyone is reading only what they want to read....Oh and believe me I get enough offers, so being out here along time has nothing to do with my attitude. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 8:08:05 PM | I should be ashamed of myself? Do you know me? I am words on a screen, with an opinion, as that is what the forums are for. I didn't ask for anyone to pick out my words or post and use it as an example for their opinion. When I am accused of what I have been, I will certainly voice again and not bow down to the popular opinion, so as to please the men.
Class goes both ways. Obviously, it is only the woman's duty to show class and we'll just let the men treat you as they will. There also is no strength in character to singling people out and using them as an example. ...that was real classy! It is only an opinion and I am sorry I have hit such a nerve as to deserve passive name calling.
Well men..I hope you are happy, because as society changes and the rules change (as some think), then expect women to be less feminine and become even more powerful and self sufficient than they already are. A lot of men complain on the forums that women are so ***chy and don't care anymore.....Well as you can see, they don't. You think it's bad now, you just wait. Guys...it has nothing to do with class, being kind, sweet and understanding...it's all about power and not wanting to be seen as needing a man for anything. I am not saying it is wrong...to each his own, but don't complain when a woman treats you as just another buddy or dumps you because, after all, she doesn't need you and you are her equal. That's what you want, so go for it.
The days of real men being gentlemen are coming to a close...pretty soon, all of us, including women, will be "just men"! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 8:50:58 PM | Ok, so now we're equating character with money?
Not at all. I'm saying that I read her statement as being about character and not about money. When someone's called "cheap", that's a judgment call about a character trait, just as it would be if a guy was called "generous" or "thrifty" or a "tightwad" or "big spender". It's not a judgment call about money, because it has nothing to do with the amount of money being spent, it has to do with the attitude of the person.
That's exactly what I posted, isn't it? ("That sounds more like a statement about character, not a money issue.") and so I'm obviously not equating the two, in fact, I'm differentiating them. It sounds like you didn't comprehend that or something. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 9:29:51 PM | I think most people don't like to be "tested" in a relationship to see if their worthy.
They may not, but that's life.
Here's the interesting thing though. If you're made of the right stuff, it won't bother you at all and you'll even "pass" the test without much thinking, if thinking at all.
We could make an argument for testing, you know? Say such "testing" spares someone, male or female, grief, wasted time and effort and an eventual terrible experience getting involved with someone, exposing them as someone that is a jerk or an uptight, rigid person or someone with anger issues - is it really then such a bad thing?
People are tested for suitability in other endeavors, why not as dates? If anything in life, that's where you'd want to test people the most because you're going to give of yourself to them.
We do evaluate our dates as potential long term prospects, don't we? Maybe some people don't, but prudent people do. If there's evaluation, that's the sister of testing.
So go ahead, test me. Evaluate me. See if I'm made of the right stuff or not. WTH should I care if someone wishes to test me then? If I pass their little test, fine. If I don't, fine.
The correct form is spelled "they're", not "their", BTW.
Hey! Good thing there isn't a test. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 9:43:44 PM | | CreativGuy...not only are you handsome, but very smart...and a "gentleman". Kudo's to you! | |
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dsj34
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Joined: 11/1/2007
Msg: 309 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 10:13:31 PM | As far as bullshit.....If you see romance and respect of dating a woman bullshit, then good luck to your dates! You say I equate "love" with money...I could say the same for you, since you feel it is unfair for a woman not to pay her share. You are not even thinking about love or romance....just what is fair. You aren't thinking about loving her or respecting her.
Besides....love comes later, not on the first few dates...which is what we are talking about in this forum.
Some women want to pay, as I have, to get away from you and not feel obligated to have to see you again. So do not get all impressed when a woman offers or insists she pay her half. Just a thought!
More bullshit. Romance and respect have nothing to do with if a man should pay for the entire bill or not. You keep equating money with these values. A man paying the entire bill is a nice gesture, but not necessary. I don't think that paying the entire bill should make a woman more interested in me because I don't equate money with romance and respect. You EXPECT a man to pay for entire bill. Big difference. If a nice woman does offer pay to half the bill, it is not always because she isn't interested. There are plenty of women including some on this thread who believe that a woman should always pay half the bill. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 10:19:13 PM | To me testing, depending on how far you go with it, can be considered a form of manipulation. Some people set up false profiles under assumed names to "test" their partners. Have their friends try to pick you up in bars. Of course those are extreme cases. Here's a thought......why don't you be honest about it?....just "ASK" them! Why go through all that cloak & dagger stuff?
Besides money, lack of communication is probably the biggest problem in relationships. Just talk to each other to find out what you need to know, testing can be easily misinterpreted & can cause more problems then they solve. Actions can be louder then words, If they act different from what they tell you, you can see if they are honest or not.
Instead of saying "I'll pay half" then dump him if he says yes, honestly .....ask him how do you want to handle the check? | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 10:56:09 PM | Cooldude....I talk about it when we are chatting and getting to know one another. It is purely that simple. There is a lot more to it than that, but it is something I talk about....how they perceive dating and treating each other. You have to be on the same page about dating. This issue is just about one action in dating. There are a number of variables and behaviors that account for not being attracted to someone. This thread was started with the "money issue" as the subject. That's what I wrote about...there is more to my heart and personality than a dinner check.
Cooldude...No ill feelings for your opinion....Best Wishes to you! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 11:07:31 PM |
It's not a judgment call about money, because it has nothing to do with the amount of money being spent, it has to do with the attitude of the person.
Her statement was that if the man doesn't pay, he's "cheap". The amount is inconsequential. Yet, she continues to insist it isn't about money. Well if it's not about money, then calling someone "cheap" is a completely invalid statement.
"It's not about money, but you're cheap". Doublespeak, plain and simple.
She negates her own argument every time she posts.
As for my not comprehending:
That sounds more like a statement about character, not a money issue.
I read that statement correctly. She calls the man cheap if he doesn't pay. You say that's a statement she's making about the man's character. If we use your example, what is she basing the man's character upon then? His PAYING THE BILL.
Money is a factor in her decision to continue dating a man. She has said this in black and white. If he doesn't pay, he doesn't continue to get dates. The only way that's a character issue, is if she equates his character with paying the bill.
1+1=2.
This is not rocket science.
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/30/2007 11:23:57 PM | O.k. thats cool.
I believe for the majority of women & men it was never been about money itself. But rather the meaning behind it if they don't pay for it.
When I debate I tend to discuss the subject gender neutral as possible, especially here. More so morally & ethically. In real life I do pay for almost all the dates & tend not to worry too much who has to pay.
But is it ethically right to assume a man is supposed to pay?
See what I mean?......lol | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 1:22:22 AM | Ok..I generally offer to pay for my half on a first date..if he insists, I don't make a scene about it...offer the tip.
If he asks me out on a second date, guess what? I'm pleased if he pays. Not because I feel entitled, not because I think he should but....here it is...
Because if he pays...I FEEL as if he likes me? Knowing that most men place a premium on money, in my mind, if he is willing to spend some on me...he must like me?
It's about how it feels. And I'm perfectly willing to share expenses as a relationship progresses. (However, I did totally support a man once, and I don't want to do that again).
As we are all molded by our experiences...having been married to a man who loved money above all else, including me, to me it more an expression of I like you enough to do this nice thing for you, or to spend my hard earned money for us to have a good meal, or whatever. Since, for the most part, most men I date make a whole lot more money than I do, I can't always afford some of the nicer things, but I will do my best. And I am reciprocal in other ways if not the money ones.
I am a very generous person, and have no problem sharing whatever I have with anyone I care about.
It does make me feel special, but that is partly because I know how many men feel about money in the first place. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 6:04:52 AM | [QUOTE]ohhhhhhh.. lets just all go eat buck meals at McD's and call it a day.....[/QUOTE]
Hey JJ,
I just turn 60 and I get the senior citizen discount coffee at Mickey dee...hehehehe | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 6:13:03 AM | Waves back to the other JJ..... well darlin.. since Im not quite there yet... can ya get me the discount on some of that coffee.... ? LOL I PROMISE I will pay my share of the bill!!!!! Hehehhehehhehe and a big eeshhhhhh!!!!!
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 6:41:56 AM | (quote) LOL I PROMISE I will pay my share of the bill!!!(/quote)
And split the 59 cents.....ok
Anyway,do you believe this post on dining! I should have been a dentist because pulling teeth would be a easier profession!
If the first meeting goes well at McD then we go to Delmonico's on a first date and order the #86 on the menu and I'll pay... | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 7:00:34 AM |
Money is a factor in her decision to continue dating a man. She has said this in black and white. If he doesn't pay, he doesn't continue to get dates. The only way that's a character issue, is if she equates his character with paying the bill.
Money is a "factor" only in that this situation happens to involves money, in fact in this situation it necessarily involves money, but it's still about whether the man shows class or not, which is about his character. In this case, it's how he comes across as "cheap" if he were to invite a woman out but then accept or expect her to pay, or "not cheap" if he invites her out on his dime.
Let's apply your reasoning to similar situations. Let's assume the situation was questioning whether the man opens a door for a lady or has her opening her own doors. Let's assume the OP wrote: "I have a date coming up and in my past couple of dates with this woman, I'm been stepping ahead of her when coming in and out of places and opening the door for her and I'm wondering if she goes to open the door herself, should I just let it be?"
Are you going to reason that this would be about doors and not about what a gentleman would do in this situation?
Then if he helps her with her coat or not, that it's about clothing.
If he seats her first before seating himself, it's all about chairs.
If he tells her lies, or is verbally abusive to her or coarse or rude in his conversation, then it's only about words, not about his character. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 7:04:35 AM |
If the first meeting goes well at McD then we go to Delmonico's on a first date and order the #86 on the menu and I'll pay...
Ya see now ladies... THERE's a REAL gentleman!! It must have something to do with the people with lots of J's in their name!! lol
Hmmmm I LOVE Delmonicos!! Had some wonderful lunches there during my Wall Street Days!!!!
ps. so glad you didn't say we would order the #69 in light of you paying!!! LMAO!!!! ( couldn't resist) | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 7:18:15 AM | | As always, rather impressed with your point of view on things, Creative Guy. Listen to him OP. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 7:29:29 AM |
To me testing, depending on how far you go with it, can be considered a form of manipulation.
"Manipulation" is about obtaining a desired result from the other person. "Testing" is about having the other person respond as they will in order for you to observe and evaluate. Attempting to obtain a desired result would defeat the purpose of the test.
Manipulation is not a bad thing, it just has a bad rep. Everything is manipulation. "Please pass the salt" is manipulation (as it seeks to have the other person perform a function), as is "Henry, we're very proud of the work you've been doing lately, and we know you're going to not let us down on the McKenzie account" (as it sets up a challenge and expectation for Henry to rise to at work) as is "honey... I'm tired" (as that gets you to back off. It's not that she's tired, she's ticked at you because you didn't help with the dishes, or maybe you stuck her with the restaurant bill, ha, ha, ha!).
just "ASK" them! Why go through all that cloak & dagger stuff?
I wouldn't be so dramatic as to call it "cloak & dagger", yet the problem with asking is exactly what you subsequently wrote: "Actions can be louder then words, If they act different from what they tell you, you can see if they are honest or not." So "asking" will not always yield the honest answers you're seeking, either because of deceit, embarrassment, naivety or ignorance. Like you say: watch the actions instead. We're in agreement there.
And if you're going to watch the actions in order to determine your answers, then you're evaluating. And if you're evaluating someone, then they've just been tested either by design or by life and you've observed the results, and one way or another there will be tests! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 7:31:05 AM | I happen to think that notchuraverage1 and Creative make a lovely looking couple btw..... I think they should have dinner.  | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 7:44:41 AM | | Absolutely let her pay what she offers! Don't let money become an issue here if you really like this lady. I'm not saying you should "spend to impress". On the other hand, if by date 3 she does not offer to pay anything, I'd be concerned she's a "sponge". | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 7:48:05 AM | | Why not split the check? Or swap back and forth who pays from one date to the next. Why should one party have to bear the entire burden of the bill? Based on gender or who asked, etc. Women and men have a fairly level playing field financially these days so the gender thing shouldn't come into consideration. If the party who asked has to foot the bill always, you may miss out on some fun things that you might want to do together simply because no one wants to be responsible for the entire bill. I always insist on splitting the bill, and no I'm not trying to be nice, I mean it. Unless someone makes a slew more $$$ than I do (and for the love of God I haven't found that, lol) I don't want anyone being burdened financially just because they enjoy spending time with me. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 12/1/2007 7:59:07 AM | Man's point of view ~ If you can't pay the frieght ~ don't place the order.
It has nothing to do ~ with all this ~ who makes what ~ or who idea it was or who asked whom.
I have no problem, ~ telling a Lady ~ that sound great but I can't front such an outting at the moment ~ Plan B?
It's been my experience ~ women are understanding in these matters ~ and it gets resolved. ~ no supprises, no secrets, no pretense, no embrassment or confusion.
Tell it like it is ~ If that is not acceptable ~ you both know early. ~~ dar | |
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