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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 9:56:19 AM |
What do you folks think?
Dont go to an expensive place. It is far too early for spending lots of money. | |
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Jelnet
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Joined: 12/6/2006
Msg: 27 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 9:57:20 AM | Firstly, thanks to the guys (Creativguy, HotyScotty, AlexeiKaramazo, qu1nn) for finally chipping in with some very useful comments and suggestions...and of course to the ladies' too :)
I just wanted to add that I didn't deliberatly choose an expensive restaurant and it's not even THAT expensive, just that it's one I like - so I'm not trying to impress with "expensive".
Also whilst I TOTALLY agree that there are many other romantic possibilites - picnics, museums etc... we will be meeting in the evening (so choices are limited) and since we've already done a bar I thought this time it should be different.
Anyway thanks again - very interesting reading :) | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 9:58:24 AM |
Sheesh, I hope none of my dates have ever been on a site asking for opinions on who picks up the tab on something they invited me to? I didn't realize men had such a hard time with this part of the equation. All the best to both of you.
If any gender has difficulty with this issue it is definitely women. | |
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Jelnet
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Joined: 12/6/2006
Msg: 29 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:02:05 AM |
If any gender has difficulty with this issue it is definitely women.
Ha yes - agree on that! (with one or two exceptions from very balanced sounding ladies).
Yes cooldude agree on that too. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:11:09 AM |
Kind of noticing a pattern here. Seems most of the women are mentioning that its the one who asks is required to pay. I'm interested in knowing where this kind of idea came from? In this day & age it should not matter who pays or even take turns paying for going out would be better.
Thank heavens for the burning of the bra and the days of equality for the tight b******s . You have something to hold onto in your argument against chivalry, and against being a skin flint. Look at the average rate of pay of a woman compared to a man tight b*****d. On average they are paid half the amount of a man for the same labour. Women may have more opportunities, but when it comes to pay, they are still way down on the agenda. Once a tight ba****d always a tight ba****d IMO. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:15:22 AM |
Whatever happened to chivalry? not all of us women are feminists, and not all of us women have the opportunity to equal payment.
Some women use chivalry as a way to get out of equal rights they have been fighting so long for. | |
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*Tee*
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Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 32 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:17:15 AM |
Kind of noticing a pattern here. Seems most of the women are mentioning that its the one who asks is required to pay. I'm interested in knowing where this kind of idea came from?
I don't know where everyone else got the idea, but in my house, dad called it manners.
I do not believe that a man has to go brankrupt pleasing a woman, nor do I believe that the man has to pay for everything, I think it should be shared. But if you're offering to take her out to a restaurant, then you should be prepared to pay. Just like I should be prepared to pay if I'm the one doing the inviting..
All I know is that if I'm going to invite somebody out, I wouldn't expect him to spend a dime, but I sure as heck am not going to invite him somewhere I can't afford and hope he coughs up...thats just kinda silly...JMO | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:19:17 AM | Pamperpooch, the hostility of your reply indicates you're more interested in a free ride than the company of a good man. Why are you so focused on money?
I might add your statistics about wages for women seem to be pulled from where the sun doesn't shine, as it is certainly not true that women make half what men do in the same occupation, at least not in first world countries. Pay still isn't exactly equal, but it's pretty close these days and there are other mitigating factors besides. | |
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Jelnet
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Joined: 12/6/2006
Msg: 34 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:22:19 AM |
Once a tight ba****d always a tight ba****d IMO.
See that's just the kind of attitude that puts a lot of men off. The thing is, the issue here isn't, in most cases, the money itself - it's the expectation and pressure put on men, and the feeling that if they "don't get it right", they'll judged not for who they are, but whether they "did the done thing".
It's kind of the same thing a lot of women feel when they feel sometimes that they need to give sex in order to keep a man interested. It's as if they have to "buy" his affections. That's how we feel when we are expected to "buy" yours on dates.
Don't get me wrong, I hope I'd sell my soul for the woman I love - but i don't want to feel I'm being taken for a fool. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:26:16 AM | I have to, have to, have to disagree.... I read through all the responses and am absolutely amazed at the sense of entitlement most of the women have shown... No wonder that many men have sense that a road to woman's heart is through the wallet... Sorry ladies, but the messages above are coming out from Victorian novels... nonsense, in my opinion.
When I go on a first date, I usually suggest something very low key - coffee shop or a diner next door - I always offer to pay. In fact, if I think that there will be no next date I insist on paying. If I think that there will be another date, and my date insist on paying for everything I will accept it but I will leave a tip, buy a second round (if a date is going well), or say that I will accept it only if I can pick up the tab next time.
Seeing that this is your third date, I would imagine that you have paid for the previous ones. To me, that means that if she offers to split the bill there would be nothing wrong with that. If she thinks less of you for doing that, she might not be a woman that you would want to hang around for a long haul. If she does not offer... that might be a bit trickier since you asked, picked the place, etc...(On that note picking an expensive place is never a good way to go... If I like company I'd be happy sitting on a park bench and talking, if I don't like them the trip to Paris in their private jet won't make me change my mind.)
Bottom line is, dating should be about meeting, getting to know another person, enjoying their company, not about free dinners. There was recently a thread about "serial" daters who go out with different men just to get a free meal... made me sick to my stomach... I always tell people I date that if we go out I will be more than happy to always split the bill, never expect to be treated. So, if they say "Let's go out" - that means splitting...If there is a special occasion and they know they want to treat me, they can always make that clear ahead of time...However, I would hate that a man I am seeing has to check his wallet each time he wants to see me, or that he has to refrain from asking me out because he's low on cash.
If you see dating as exchange, a monetary transaction of a sort then a man has every right to objectify you and expect sex in return... or whatever else he thinks he is entitled to.
Romance, in my opinion, is not about material things. It's about other person listening to you, thinking of you, and wanting to do something nice for you just to see you smile. And, those are the things that no amount of money can buy.
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:30:30 AM |
Pamperpooch, the hostility of your reply indicates you're more interested in a free ride than the company of a good man. Why are you so focused on money?
I might add your statistics about wages for women seem to be pulled from where the sun doesn't shine, as it is certainly not true that women make half what men do in the same occupation, at least not in first world countries. Pay still isn't exactly equal, but it's pretty close these days and there are other mitigating factors besides.
My statistics are based on qualitive and quantitive evidence from social science. These are the people who oppose limited opinion based on an overal evaluation of evidence. If you care to dispute it, please do so. My evidence is not focused on money, merely that fact that the so called 'new man' has no concept of the difference between the average income of a woman and a man. For instance, for a man to take a woman out for a meal may take 10% of his weekly income. For an average woman to pay half of that meal may take 50% of hers, and if she has a child to take into consideration (because lets face it, nost children are left to the responsibility of the woman) then that may be much more of a strain on her budget. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:32:04 AM | Disparity in pay between men and women doing same jobs still exists, that's true. But it is not 50%, more like 80%. I am a sociologist, and I teach on gender... so, I kind of know this stuff....
Also, it is men who invite most of the time... one more reason why I don't like "whoever asks pays" rule... I work, I get paid. If I was not on a date I would have to prepare my own dinner (which is always a health risk) or buy it. So, why wouldn't I cover my expenses when going out with someone?
On another forum a guy posted "I pay with my card, she pays with her company"... So, how's that different from whoring? Or, men get defensive and upset because she did not finish the meal she ordered (what are we 5 years old?)...
I can see why men get jaded and cynical about women... Damn it, I would not go out with anyone who thinks that I MUST treat them, nor would I go out with anyone who thinks that they can make any sort of claim on me (or my time, or my body, or my emotions) because they footed the bill.
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:33:44 AM | | Few typo and spelling errors there, so I appologise, but the principle is still the same | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:35:26 AM | Geez man....cancel that darned date.....No date should be such a big deal concerning money.......I am sure she would be the first to say it's not worth it.......
If I invite a guy out, I make sure it is where I can afford...... I invited guys out for coffee and had them order whole lunch on me.....I chalk it up to experience because I invited them so I know that I PAY. Most of you men are missing the point here or just being your usual self........ If YOU invite someone out.......then expect to PAY..... its the ongoing principle.....not anyone living in your pocket or taking advantage....... If you know you cannot pay...... Keep your da*mn mouth shut.......or go out with McDonald women.....I am sure you will be able to afford that? | |
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Jelnet
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Joined: 12/6/2006
Msg: 40 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:36:08 AM |
Romance, in my opinion, is not about material things. It's about other person listening to you, thinking of you and wanting to do something nice for you just to see you smile. And, those are the things that no amount of money can buy.
Good comments well said redcassandra - nice to see a woman with her head in the 21st century ;) | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:36:19 AM | If I invite a woman to go out to dinner, I will pay, and if she invites me, she can pay.....
Many times when I am doing activities with another, I am inclined to get the bills because that is how it was when I was young and before all of this equality and internet dating frenzy. What I look for is equality in our relationship in some way shape or form.
If my date is suggesting places to go, things to see and do, and others to have fun with, but expects me to pay for all the suggestions each and every time, then I will have a problem with it, and we will have a discussion about what needs to be done to have the both of us feel that we are participating in this equally.
It seems to me that this becomes more of a problem or situation when one person is much more financially secure then the other. There have been many times, that I pay for all because I can without it affecting my wallet much, and would affect my female companions much more. If for some reason, my date made as much as I do, or more, then I would expect more on her side to be offered and presented when out and about.
Just my opinion.......   | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:37:53 AM |
My statistics are based on qualitive and quantitive evidence from social science. These are the people who oppose limited opinion based on an overal evaluation of evidence. If you care to dispute it, please do so. My evidence is not focused on money, merely that fact that the so called 'new man' has no concept of the difference between the average income of a woman and a man. For instance, for a man to take a woman out for a meal may take 10% of his weekly income. For an average woman to pay half of that meal may take 50% of hers, and if she has a child to take into consideration (because lets face it, nost children are left to the responsibility of the woman) then that may be much more of a strain on her budget.
You haven't cited any actual sources for your statistics of a 50% difference, and even the most damning estimates list a 25% difference which again is not necessarily as drastic as it sounds.
But the real point here is not that some women may earn less than some men, but that some women seem to expect to have everything paid for by the man, regardless of their personal income levels! This makes no sense. I have no problem paying for the woman if she just can't afford it, but if she has plenty of money on her own but still expects the man to be "chivalrous" and pay for everything all the time, I say that woman has no respect for the time and money the man is spending on her. Remember, the OP said this woman earns about three times as much as he does yet you still seem to expect him to be paying for everything. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:44:16 AM | For me it has never been an issue with money. I've normally paid ( Not always ) for dates or whatnot. But always wondered nowadays why it is such an issue? Most women now have jobs & are not expected to stay home & take care of the children.
Women making half of what men does seems a little far fetched. Maybe slightly bellow that in some jobs, but not such a wide margin in all jobs.
Since I've been working 20 years in the military, male & females are paid exactly the same amount based on your rank. | |
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qu1nn
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Joined: 8/22/2007
Msg: 44 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:49:00 AM | Hey Jelnet
As a rule of thumb, I treat every date as a first date. For me, that means that I do pay for the dinner at the very least. I might let them get dessert and an ice cream place, but other then that, I take care of it. I don't look at it as buying affection, while some might see it that way. The way I see it, everyone has had some bad luck with the whole dating thing, so I just look at it as doing something nice for someone and hope she appreciates it. But then again, I have also bought flowers for random girls on the street, for no other reason then I thought she could use something to brighten her day. | |
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dsj34
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Joined: 11/1/2007
Msg: 45 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:49:59 AM | | I disagree with the notion that whoever asked the other person out should pay. 80%-90% of the time, it's the man who asks a woman out so the man would end up paying almost all the time. A few times a woman has asked me out and I NEVER expected her to pay the entire bill. I have always offered to pay my portion of the bill. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:50:19 AM | | Jel, the person that says lets go to dinner should pay....you are saying you prefer her to pay half cause its such an expensive restaurant, well who suggested that particular one?..if it was too expensive for you then you should not have suggested it...........I just went on a first date(he asked to go for coffee), well I got there early, waited..when he showed up I asked if he would like to sit inside or out with our coffee, ummm his reaction was "well I am coffeed out so lets sit outside and talk", without asking me if I would like anything, well that was a deal breaker right there. True if he would have asked if I wanted anything, I might have offered to pay my own, but usually if you ask the person out YOU PAY!!!! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:55:03 AM | Last November, I was dating this guy who didn't make very much money...in fact, he barely made enough to cover his rent, food, and his most basic needs.
When I heard that his favorite band was coming to town and that he'd never been to a concert before, I knew full well that even
if he wanted to go, there was no way he could ever cover the cost of a $ 100 ticket. So I bought the two tickets myself and then I simply asked him if he wanted to accompany me to the concert:)
It was my treat, along with the cost of everything else that evening...dinner, drinks, parking...etc...but I made sure I could well afford it in advance, so I wouldn't feel "resentful" of the money I spent that evening...ya know? And I didn't do it to impress him,
but just *because* I felt like it...in my opinion, that's the way it should be always:)
So for me, this has nothing to do with whether you're a man or a woman.....it has to do with what you can both afford, what you're both willing to spend without feeling squeezed or resentful or "used".... if it's something that one has to even wonder about, then I would suggest that they both find some cheaper and simpler things to do together....no? 
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:58:57 AM | There is a reason all of us are here are on POF...............
Mostly because we have bad attitude and issues......
Some much, much more than others...........
In a perfect world............men should only be allowed to date men......
and all the money hungry, greedy, grasping women should stick together.......
What a great world it would be...... | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10:59:38 AM | | That's funny you said that magic....In this case I would agree with most posters. The man invited,she accepted....He should pay.Especially since it's the third date.Now let me throw a wrench in here for a sec. I find this common w/ online dating. Say I meet somebody that lives in another city(40-50 miles away).I tell her I'm not from the area and It would be a little easier if she could make some suggestions for a first meeting.Let's say she want's to meet at an applebees,chili's or whatever.So we meet,both order meals and drinks. Now who's responsibility is it for the check(of course I would never expect someone to pay for mine!) | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:03:58 AM | RedCassandra says
In fact, if I think that there will be no next date I insist on paying. Hmmm ... guess that is the tip off!  | |
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