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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:05:08 AM | He picked the restaurant, which means he knows how much it costs and is prepared to pick up the tab. If a guy doesn't think I'm worth an entree I have to wonder what else he's going to be cheap about. Stingy with his emotions, compliments, sharing his toys?
If he picked a 5 star restaurant and invited you out to join him, why should anyone be expected to pick up 1/2 the tab in a restaurant that they couldn't or wouldn't have picked for themselves?
If you're just looking for a dinner friend, then that's a different story. You both agree you just want someone to eat with and you both pick a restaurant you can both afford.
Sheesh...I also think when I can walk into anywhere and get an $8.00 haircut, no make up or beauty costs, when I can own a black and brown pair of shoes and 2 suits and a pair of jeans and call it a day, when I am actually paid equally, then we can talk about bill splitting, but don't be asking me to birth no babies, we can split that task as well, I mean seeing as we're so equal~. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:05:09 AM | One the one hand it's really nice and it shows you care if you were to pick up the bill, but on the other it is the 21st Century and your better haf can chip in. I've been on a few dates where the woman offers to pay for the drinks or the tip and/or certain parts of the meal (appetizer) for example. It's always nice for the guys to pick up the tab and pay for the dates the first little bit, but how long should it last? She may come accustomed to it and expect it.
Good luck,
CS | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:07:28 AM | Pamperpooch,
Do you not grasp where the confusion comes in? What about the man who meets a woman who makes say 225,00o.00 to his 75000.00 per year? Is he responsible? I'm ALWAYS a gentleman and pay for my dates,however i'm seeing a certain methodology I'm becoming uncomfortable with,expecially a first meeting situation.Women are much closer in equality than people seem to know,maybe not in all facets.I personally know several women who head their own companies and organizations and who do quite well on the pay scale.This notion of men always should provide,hidden under the guise of chivilry( a misused term today-many don't have a clue as to it's true meaning),In a non- traditional(family setting) is ludicrous.I would say it depends on variouble factors and a "one size fits all" mentality only allows for mistreatment of men. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:07:39 AM | | It would be best not to assume anything. Be prepared to pay your half whether or not you asked or someone else did. Because as I was flipping through the rule book, I still could not find where the person asking is required to pay the bill. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:08:06 AM |
The way I see it, everyone has had some bad luck with the whole dating thing, so I just look at it as doing something nice for someone and hope she appreciates it. But then again, I have also bought flowers for random girls on the street, for no other reason then I thought she could use something to brighten her day.
Damn! Young enough to be my son and lives in Colorado! Curses! Foiled again!
OT;
Why is this so difficult?? You invited,the restaurant is of YOUR choosing, be prepared to pay. She may be cognizant that who pays has become something of an issue in dating philosophy and OFFER to chip in or pay the tip. I have to agree that if she INSISTS on Dutch, you are in the friend zone, which I gather is NOT where you want to be. I think, given the changing attitudes about dating etiquette, that on the other hand, she simply sits back and lets you continue to fund everything, without making some attempt to reciprocate( and no, I don't mean sex)you ,may be dealing with an entitlement princess or a sponger.
JMHO
Cindy O | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:11:37 AM | Redcassandra,
Your a considerate,well adjusted,thoughtful and well just plain decent woman! Bravo to your attitude and extremely well said as well! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:12:27 AM | "Say I meet somebody that lives in another city(40-50 miles away).I tell her I'm not from the area and It would be a little easier if she could make some suggestions for a first meeting.Let's say she want's to meet at an applebees,chili's or whatever.So we meet,both order meals and drinks. Now who's responsibility is it for the check(of course I would never expect someone to pay for mine!) "
You each pay for your own meal unless the other offers. If you came the longer way then it's more reasonable for the woman to pay for lunch........ if she is a reasonable person. You should kind of work through that before making the long drive, though. I believe in being up-front on issues so we each have a good understanding of where we stand. If you tell her that you would like to take her to dinner but money is limited... ask her to choose a reasonable restaurant.....more than likely she will offer to share the cost or just dump you......either way.....you come out ahead...... | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:13:51 AM | | Maybe you shouldn't go out till your first responsibility( your kids ) are seen to and then you won't be expecting men to make up for a shortcoming they didn't create! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:15:31 AM | | You see dark,I never have a problem with this,I just be a nice guy and pay.Especially if it was a good date.However the spirit of entitlement has enflamed me! | |
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qu1nn
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Joined: 8/22/2007
Msg: 60 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:16:00 AM | Bosox
I have had the situation where as the guy you have to travel into a new city for a date. trying to impress her, I did a 411 dot com search for places she might like, got the location and said lets meet here. I was flying by the seat of my pants as to whether the food was good, but it has always worked out well. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:19:18 AM | I have to voice my discontent once again...
<div class="quote"> I'm ALWAYS a gentleman and pay for my dates
bosox0407, I don't know you at all... so, my comment is not personal, does not reflect on the poster at all ...In fact it speaks more to those ladies who said they wanted gentleman who will treat them to dinner. But, paying for a date does not make a gentleman in my book. Gentleman is one who treats me the way he wants to be treated - as equal... Not like a Barbie doll, not like a little girl, not like someone who should be tamed, and certainly not like a rented car or a smoocher. Self-respect and respect for other, and integrity are the key words for me when it comes to who's a gentleman.
The sense of entitlement from either one of the parties should be a huge red flag... not only when it comes to dinner, but about anything else in relationship.
If I were to meet with someone who does not live in my town, I am perfectly happy to meet them half way. That way we both get to see a new place. Really people... isn't this totally basic? Or, am I from a different planet?
Edit: I don't want to add another post, so I'll just add few more sentences here.
Creativguy,
chivalry for me is not in the ability to pay, but in ability to be there for me when I need a shoulder to lean on, AND in ability to ask for a shoulder when they need one to lean on. The times of slaying dragons, and "taking care" of a woman are gone (or at least I hope so).
darkchocolat23,
the converasation included both - inviting and being a gentleman... I already said men, in general, more often than women end up inviting - that's why I prefer to offer to split costs (not only because I am showing that I have manners). As, I said before it would really bother me if the man I like has to make sure that he has enough money before he suggest doing something...
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:21:37 AM | ^^^
"Or, am I from a different planet? "
Nope! Unless of course I'm an alien too...haha!!
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:33:03 AM |
I'm interested in knowing where this kind of idea came from? In this day & age it should not matter who pays or even take turns paying for going out would be better.
But it does matter who pays, because, if you read carefully the profiles of many women, you'll see that one of the qualities they're desirous of in this day and age is one that is lacking in many men, and that is: chivalry.
When the guy asks her out, he's treating. To ask her out and then suggest she foot half the bill, or accept her offer to pay some or all of it, can make him appear as if he doesn't keep to his standards and will cheap out.
This isn't an intellectual discussion regarding people's ability to pay. This has to do with what impressions of one's character one gives by their actions. Women are looking for "stand up" gentlemen, not guys who quickly respond "oh, okay... that'll be $40" or who say "hey, it's your turn to pay". If she has to pay, then it's not a treat anymore.
When they offer to pay, they're either being mannerly or they don't want to feel obligated (which is why I suggested the OP watch to see if she insists on paying after he refuses to accept her offer). If they're just being mannerly, then they're simply acting civilly and aren't really looking to pay, but they are looking to see if the guy negates his offering the treat by having her be responsible for a part or all of it.
She can always offer to treat the next dinner, and she will, if she's a giver. If she only takes and takes and never offers to treat or cook a dinner, I'd think she's a taker, and I'd be out of there.
An example from my life. A woman I was seeing would offer to pay and I said no. She offered to then pay the tip. I refused. At the end of the date, I had to catch a train, no time left to take her home, so I put her in a cab and paid for her fare home. In other words, I took her out and took care of her. The result: she told her friends that I was "MORE than a gentleman" and she's since invited me to home cooked meals, complete with wine and candlelight, her treat, several times. She's even told me how romantic I am, but I haven't done ONE romantic thing... so she must see my being chivalrous as being romantic. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:36:27 AM | "In fact it speaks more to those ladies who said they wanted gentleman who will treat them to dinner. But, "
I think the gist of most of their conversation was >>>>"Who does the inviting should do the paying"<<<<<<< I saw nowhere that any of the ladies SAID they wanted gentlemen who will treat them to dinner........
I mean......we do like men who treat us to dinner but seeing that they are not around much anymore and the majority of the ones that are; are still married to their wives who are NOT letting them go..........We have to adjust and be realistic here......sigh....
Da*mn depressing this thread is............... | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:37:11 AM | I think most guys don't have a problem with paying for a date. But rather if a woman expects or demands a man do so, just because shes a woman. I believe this is what some men have an issue with.
But it does matter who pays, because, if you read carefully the profiles of many women, you'll see that one of the qualities they're desirous of in this day and age is one that is lacking in many men, and that is: chivalry.
Not always, as that is starting to change now. All you have to do is read what some women are posting even in this thread.
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 11:48:20 AM | Cooldude, these days (where I live anyway) women don't expect to be paid for as a matter of course. It goes back to the days when women didn't earn or were chattels so it could be regarded by some as a bit of an insult, actually!
But if he asked her out he should pay. If she offers half, he should decline. If she insists and gets into a tizz about it, he should accept.
If they go out again, they should discuss the finances beforehand. He'll soon find out if she's a freeloader. Which is what anyone is, if they expect to be paid for all the time. Either that or stuck in the 19th century... | |
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gcdeb
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Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 68 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 12:00:17 PM |
It was my suggestion to go for dinner, and I'm wondering what to do if she offers to pay half the bill. Should I accept?
As you invited her, you should pay. If she offers, I think you should politely decline. If she offers again, politely accept. If it is a genuine offer, she will make an effort to insist. This indicates that she is honest, fair, reasonable, and considerate. If it is not a genuine offer, she will be happy when you reject it and wont' insist.
Personally, I would ALWAYS offer to split the bill in the early stages, especially with online dating, as you aren't really sure if there are going to be more dates, so it's not fair for the man to pay.
The whole 'man must pay' thing is waaayyy out of date. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 1:32:59 PM | Not always, as that is starting to change now. All you have to do is read what some women are posting even in this thread.
What women are mostly posting in this thread is what you've already noted: "Seems most of the women are mentioning that its the one who asks is required to pay." A few have also asked 'whatever happened to chivalry?'.
The idea of having the woman pay comes up a lot in these forums. Equality is always mentioned to support that thinking. But chivalry is not about women having the vote or equal pay in the workplace. Chivalry is about being a gentleman and making the woman comfortable in your presence. It's about respect, manners and gestures toward others.
Merriam-Webster definition of "Chivalrous" = "Marked by gracious courtesy and high-minded consideration especially to women".
But a lot of guys want to contend with that notion and make arguments for having the woman pay on a date, as if this were an equal rights matter.
So be it, and hand in hand with the vents saying that a woman should pay, are the frustration threads dealing with how these guys can't get past a date or two and the threads venting frustration at women for the dates going south, when what's really happening is that the guys are turning women off, partly by their unchivalrous actions, or perhaps partly by their attitudes, knowingly or not.
Then you get threads like this one where the guy's not even clear on who pays. That's how muddled up it's become.
Creativguy,
chivalry for me is not in the ability to pay, but in ability to be there for me when I need a shoulder to lean on, AND in ability to ask for a shoulder when they need one to lean on. The times of slaying dragons, and "taking care" of a woman are gone (or at least I hope so).
RedCassandra, my point isn't that chivalry is the ability to pay. My point was that chivalry has the man paying because he invited the woman out. It's not about taking care of a woman in the sense that she's helpless and in need of a dragon slayer, it's about taking care of her in terms of her comfort while she's in your company out of respect for her and as a reflection of one's character.
In times of "needing a shoulder to lean on", I'd say that's about a man being supportive, a good listener, validative and empathic, but that's not about chivalry, per se. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 1:44:52 PM | I agree women don't ask men out as much--but when *I* do, *I* expect to pay. I make it clear that I will, too, so there's no "bill shuffle dance" when it comes time (that's just awkward and a buzz-kill).
BUT GUESS WHAT??? I have to practically FORCE the guy to NOT pay. So do NOT insist *only* women feel men should have to pay--MEN also feel THEY should pay for the privilege of being with me. My date once said he doesn't feel like he's the man if I pay (and I told him he could feel like the man later that night).
Quite frankly, though, if it's THIS big an issue with you after THREE dates, I think you're cheap, and being cheap with money probably means you're cheap with affection and self-centered and all sorts of bad personality things. It's basically a test of and reflection on your character. | |
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Jelnet
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Joined: 12/6/2006
Msg: 71 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 1:54:32 PM |
Quite frankly, though, if it's THIS big an issue with you after THREE dates, I think you're cheap, and being cheap with money probably means you're cheap with affection and self-centered and all sorts of bad personality things. It's basically a test of and reflection on your character.
Hey - I never said it was BIG issue - it's just a post on a thread on a free dating site. And it doesn't mean I'm cheap, no more than offering yourself to your date means you're cheap ;) | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 2:33:09 PM |
I saw nowhere that any of the ladies SAID they wanted gentlemen who will treat them to dinner........
In this particular thread perhaps not but this topic has been discussed numerous times and I always am shocked at the number of women who think 'the man pays' no matter what. | |
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gcdeb
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Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 73 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 2:45:08 PM | jelnet
most responders seem to be missing the point that the question you asked was 'what should I do if she offers to pay' or something like that (I didn't go back to check it).
I don't think you were trying to be cheap, just asking how to deal with a situation that might arise. You did add that you would be happy for her to pay half, but that doesn't detract from your original question which was basically 'how do I deal with it if she offers'. It would have been nice to see some more responses to your actual question. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 2:56:49 PM | If this has been mentioned, sorry but it bears repeating...Maybe she won't offer half...?
problem solved
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 3:08:09 PM | | I dont think alot of us missed the point about her offering to pay....I know I didnt, but reading further into his original post, he basically wanted her to pay half due to it being such an expensive restaurant......also alot did say depends on the situation the women would be willing to pay half, but a man should not expect or say yes to a woman paying half if he is the one that initiated the date...sorry my opinion | |
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