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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/7/2008 11:29:55 PM | Hilarious! The first time in this entire thread that I've had a good laugh and what comes next, 10 screenfuls of all-caps yelling and a call to all the "gals" to join in the slam-fest.
OMG this is rich!
Beatles, I'm sure you're a nice guy in person, and I have no doubt the ladies love you. You obviously haven't had the problems with women that I have, and I am thankful for that for your sake. So please enjoy, thank your lucky stars, and be at peace.
You win the argument. You're obviously a much better man than I am, and I am certain that 90% of the women reading this thread will agree that you are. For that you can be proud I'm sure. So enjoy your sense of vindication! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 1:57:33 AM | Beatles................it looks like you could have a 20 pages thread, all in one post!
And I thought that "I" was wordy!!
Actually, I AM wordy!!! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 8:21:57 AM |
Go ahead and mock me now, Sparky.
Beatles,
I judge the quality of advice by the quality of compassion I see in how people address others who are struggling or annoying. I was paying attention to you when you chose to take a mocking tone with me while I was bleeding all over this thread and trying to make a point against severe resistance. You lost all credibility with me then when you chose to patronize me at that time, and your current tirades are really falling on deaf ears. I scan them just enough to ascertain their tone, and when you choose to stop patronizing me then we might have a chance to talk. But until then I suspect you're the only one reading them. You've had all the fun at my expense that you're going to get, and if you want to feel superior in future, you'll have to look elsewhere for that type of satisfaction.
However, if you think I was merely being patronizing to you just now, you are mistaken. You have obviously done better in ways than I have, and I really am happy for you that you feel a greater sense of freedom and ease than I do. Good for you! You came out of all the turmoil of the gender wars relatively unscathed compared to me, and I am happy for you about that. Whether it's because you had the good sense to avoid them or the wisdom to see things more clearly than I did at the time, only you can say.
You also came out of this discussion looking good and smelling like a rose, whereas my incessant voicing of an unpopular opinion has been an almost complete waste of time that only damaged my reputation. The fact that it was something I felt needed saying was perhaps my own folly. But it's been said, some people have heard it, and that is all I need. I don't need for people to agree with me or to submit to my version of reality. With the bitterness that I have experienced, why would I want that? But having been heard to the extent that I have, I'm done. And if I've chosen to be a good loser in this debate I should think that you might have the grace to act like a good winner.
You don't have to like me or my views, but as a fellow human being, both I and my eccentric viewpoint are worthy of that much respect. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 9:04:57 AM | Look, fellas...it's really easy to understand and I'll say it simply so that you can. If you don't want to pay for meals, be chivalrous, etc., just anticipate that MOST women will NOT date you again!
The ones who do date you, usually won't do it for too long, or...you will remain within the 'friend status' position!
Now, that's coming from a 'woman' who wrote a 250 page book on the subject. Mind you, I had to do a lot of surveys, questionaires, and communications with a tremendous amount of both women and men (approximately 1000 of both sexes). So, take it whatever way you will, but it looks like the women have spoken! ;) 
And to think...it DIDN'T take ME two pages to write that, hehe. Boy, I thought my posts were long winded. I will never think that again, roflmao. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 10:18:52 AM | SW,
I think we're all aware of how it is. The debate at this point is whether or not it is as it should be. Advice to just get with the program merely begs that question, though getting with the program certainly would be more convenient! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 11:16:36 AM |
Janet, The way to stop participating in the bitterness is not to shun the men who express it, but to acknowledge that, to them, the suffering that caused such bitterness was very real--even if you have no frame of reference for understanding it. It is amazing how much things can shift when one shows a little acceptance to a person who's feeling alienated.
Other than these forums, I've never come across these type of men, so there is nothing to "stop".
Bitterness is a self-inflicted ailment and not one that others can fix for you with any amount if understanding. It is the same as victim mentality, and until you feel more powerful than the result of your past, you will continue to hurt yourself by pushing others away.
Those that embrace (show acceptance of) your bitterness are not helping you, but keeping you stuck. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 11:32:38 AM |
Now, that's coming from a 'woman' who wrote a 250 page book on the subject. Mind you, I had to do a lot of surveys, questionaires, and communications with a tremendous amount of both women and men (approximately 1000 of both sexes). So, take it whatever way you will, but it looks like the women have spoken! ;)
I've been on these forums a very long time & I find that every time a "Who pays" topic comes out at least halve the women, if not more, simply conflict with the data you state in your "Book". Yes the women & men for that matter, in these forums have spoken quite well in that regard. I usually find the same few people jumping up and down that a man pays ect, when it seems the majority are more open minded with going dutch, who asks pays, taking turns paying. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 12:11:43 PM | In other words, my message hasn't changed: grow up, find your balls again and do something about your wussiness.
Exactly. And that's why I'm afraid I must reiterate that you have no idea what you are talking about.
So, for the sake of peace, let us simply agree to disagree on this subject and move on. I've had a chance to be heard. So have you. That's as good as it's going to get. Enough already.
"Rock, paper, scissors. Loser buys." That one post made this whole ordeal worthwhile! Gotta love it! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 12:33:35 PM |
The message you are replying to: Posted By: jelnet on 11/26/2007 11  32 AM Subject: Dinner Date - Who Pays? Message: Hi All It's my third date with a girl I'm really quite keen on - and this time it's for dinner. It's very early stages and so far we've only got as far as kissing on the cheek when saying goodbye. It was my suggestion to go for dinner, and I'm wondering what to do if she offers to pay half the bill. Should I accept? I have to admit I would prefer to split the cost, since the restaurant is fairly expensive, and while I have a reasonable job - I reckon she earns about three times what I do. On the other hand I don't want to appear unromantic. What do you folks think?
It amazes me that guys even ask this question!!! You always pay unless you've been dating a while, are engaged or married. I would be embarrassed to accept her offer to pay for half. I have too much pride and think you end up looking cheap - even if you are - What she earns compared to you is irrelevant! And unromantic isn't the word your looking for - cheapskate is - lol! You gotta 'pay to play' my man. It's the rules of the game. If she's a keeper then the bill just gets steeper ; ) You never accept an offer that early in a relationship. Period. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 12:46:25 PM | Whomever asked pays. If it was a mutual decision then split.
But, what I really want to know is why does how far you have gotten with her physically have anything to do with your question? | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 5:09:56 PM | I agree to an extent jlee.
However, I think it's fair to say these days, as men and women earn pretty much equal money, that on a first date especially when meeting over something like POF, the cost should be split when you have never met them, and dont know if you will like each other. A girl shouldnt go out with a guy because he's paid or paying, she should go out with him because she's attracted to him for the looks and the personality. Splitting the cost would show this.
There's always a risk of serial dater syndrome, girls (or guys) who just go on there for a free date and never get their hands in their pocket. You should split the cost, and if there's a mutual attraction and you intend to go out for further dates, then take it in turns to pay. I think its fair in this day and age, to assume the cost will be split unless someone insists they themselves pay. I think for a woman or a man to insist the other person pays implies they are probably a cheapskate or a gold digger, and dont have an interest in forming a relationship with the person just their pocket.
When you're in a relationship its different, if you want to spoil someone you have feelings for then fine, pay for it all if you want to. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 5:14:57 PM | | And also if a guy insists on paying all the time, far from being romantic it's more like buying someones affection. If someone likes you, it shouldnt matter if you dont pay for everything, they shouldnt go out with you for your wallet! Romance is sending flowers, buying a special present, doing little things, its not paying for every date! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 6:31:48 PM |
Message: Hi All
It's my third date with a girl I'm really quite keen on - and this time it's for dinner. It's very early stages and so far we've only got as far as kissing on the cheek when saying goodbye. It was my suggestion to go for dinner, and I'm wondering what to do if she offers to pay half the bill. Should I accept?
I have to admit I would prefer to split the cost, since the restaurant is fairly expensive, and while I have a reasonable job - I reckon she earns about three times what I do. On the other hand I don't want to appear unromantic.
What do you folks think?
To begin with, if she offers, accept. Probably won't be another date, but go ahead, if it means that much to you. Second, don't ask people out to places you can't afford, or at least be upfront that you want to go dutch. Surprises aren't very nice sometimes. And since you have a reasonable job, and she earns 3 times the amount that you do. Did you ever stop to think that if you are willing to be generous to her, she might just be generous to you? Probably didn't think that all the way through, did you? And it is unromantic. Dutch is not romantic.
I don't know why they deleted my statement earlier in the post. So I'll say it again.
Aw, to hell with it, I won't go out to dinner with anyone anymore. lol...
Problem solved!!!!!
There are a few real men on here, then there's the others. lol...
Just because you have reasons to be bitter, doesn't mean you have to be! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 6:43:55 PM |
But here's the deal: the rules of engagement, as I have vividly explained in exhaustive examplification (none of which you believe applies to you) don't change, regardless of how transitional our point in cultural history is.
It's real simple: either you can behave yourself like a proper suitor or you can't.
Everybody has their own set of rules so those are simply your own. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 6:59:47 PM | It's real simple: either you can behave yourself like a proper suitor or you can't. If you can't, then remove yourself from the marketplace until you are no longer a psychological burden to those unsuspecting women who don't deserve to have the dubious honor of helping you shoulder your unresolved issues.
If I had said something like this to you in a public forum, wouldn't you consider it patronizing in the extreme?
No mystery there. It's not that I'm terminally unique, it's that your mind appears to be closed.
Even if your logic is inescapable, you render it irrelevant by relating to me as though I were inferior to you. You simply cannot expect anyone to listen when you do that, which is why I am again saying to you that when it comes to me, my experience, and what I should do about it, you obviously don't know what you are talking about.
If you did, you would not be pontificating at me. You would be trying to understand it from my point of view and then relating your viewpoint to me as a fellow man who actually cares. If you were having trouble understanding it and were concerned for my well-being as a fellow man, your tone would be altogether different. But rather, you appear to be getting so much mileage from the role of defender of the weaker sex that you can no longer see someone like me, faulty though I might be, as human. And since it is obvious to me that I am human, faults and all, you give me good reason to doubt your judgment on this other matter of who should pay and why.
When you're ready to relate to me as a human being and a man, I'll be ready to talk some more with you about this. Until then, I simply leave you to your obviously winning arguments! I concede the debate. I've already made myself look like an ass, and if you keep coming after me it's going to make you look like one too. So please do us both a favor and let it go. You win! Enjoy! Peace! I'm out! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 7:35:40 PM |
I've been on these forums a very long time & I find that every time a "Who pays" topic comes out at least halve the women, if not more, simply conflict with the data you state in your "Book". Yes the women & men for that matter, in these forums have spoken quite well in that regard. I usually find the same few people jumping up and down that a man pays ect, when it seems the majority are more open minded with going dutch, who asks pays, taking turns paying.
Here's the thing, cooldude...the forums aren't very representative of real life...at least not my real life...I have never, in one instance, had any of these issues come up in my entire life , in the real world...for that matter, every date I have had from online dating, there was none of this arguing about who's paying for what... I didn't even know this was an issue till I got on the forums ( and most of the other issues on here too)...I think either the kind of people who like to post, or the kinds of people drawn to argue about gender differences are just drawn here in bigger numbers...and certainly some angry and bitter people too...I try to avoid those in either venue...
As vulf has said...in my life..who ever invites pays...it has always worked, and I'm sure it will continue to work in my world...so, anything I say here is just for the fun of debate...since the kind of guys I attract or are attracted to, follow the same patterns...I don't really have to worry about it...
And not once , in my entire life, has anybody accused me of taking advantage of anyone else...
If anything...I am the antitheses of that statement... | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/8/2008 7:45:56 PM | BYYY
This last post of yours is so spot on! The only thing I'd change in your scenario is that as a woman, I'd be the one packing the special picnic lunch. You can bring the wine, though. Red please. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/9/2008 1:43:57 AM | Timidity is being portrayed as a negative trait... I say no, nah, nay and flock-off.
Women are historically pictured as, rarely men. When a person is timid, they are flustered and become inactive. Like a deer frozen in head lights.
Does it, become more ugly because of its inaction?
I guess some would see the deer as decrepit or in-utile. That is their perception of attractiveness or alphanesque.
Lets' remember that there are many wants and needs. Therefore somebody for everybody.
Two guys', ego bashing, does not help this thread, nor each other. It may however attract their likes.
For me it is equality. Not 'I pay' or 'She pays', but actually enjoying the company we share, non-pretentiously.
Everything else
Is
Pretentious.
Ur Xoxo. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/9/2008 4:30:20 AM |
Here's the thing, cooldude...the forums aren't very representative of real life
Sure people don't show it on the outside when they are in person, but secretly they may have a very different opinion. And it definitely shows on the forums. Things they would be afraid to say in person.
anything I say here is just for the fun of debate
And believe it or not so do I. When I debate on a topic I don't always take the most popular, socially accepted view. I go by what I think is right & fair. These are one of my most favorite ones to debate on. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/9/2008 4:50:45 AM | | go to weatherspoons; if she expects to be 'bought' - move on - they are not all gold=diggers | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/9/2008 5:11:44 AM |
Sure people don't show it on the outside when they are in person, but secretly they may have a very different opinion. And it definitely shows on the forums. Things they would be afraid to say in person.
I would guess you are speaking for yourself here... that you are afraid and secretly resenting women for the role you feel you must play?
I'm sorry you are not bold enough to be in real life who you represent in your posts here... what is right and fair about that?
Sounds somewhat cowardly... and not being true to yourself or those you meet. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/9/2008 5:16:18 AM |
Sure people don't show it on the outside when they are in person, but secretly they may have a very different opinion. And it definitely shows on the forums. Things they would be afraid to say in person.
I would guess you are speaking for yourself here... that you are afraid and secretly resenting women for the role you feel you must play?
I'm sorry you are not bold enough to be in real life who you represent in your posts here... what is right and fair about that?
Sounds somewhat cowardly... and not being true to yourself or those you meet.
See post 833 & 887 that should explain some of it for you. If you been keeping up with the posts.
Post 833
I've been dating a very nice woman lately, who has been very puzzled by my posts here because when I'm with her I'm generous. And why not?
Thats the way I am exactly. I've recently changed my thoughts on the who pays issue. I've always paid & plan to in the future. It was not until I came onto the forums & found so many expectations from so many people. Why should it be in this day & age? So as far as debate wise I'm sticking with the open minded policy on who pays because I think it is the right thing to do.
Post 887
anything I say here is just for the fun of debate
And believe it or not so do I. When I debate on a topic I don't always take the most popular, socially accepted view. I go by what I think is right & fair. These are one of my most favorite ones to debate on.
I'm sorry you are not bold enough to be in real life who you represent in your posts here... what is right and fair about that?
Um...and you were saying?
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/9/2008 5:31:16 AM | ^^ You talk in circles... I think this, I do that, but what I say is just for fun.
Interesting way to live your life. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 9/9/2008 5:45:43 AM | I guess I must be more 'eclectic' in my thinking than I thought I was........
I have always (and I do mean always) offered to pay for my share of the bill.
If the gentleman says "no" - that's good.
If the gentleman says "well, okay" - in no way am I offended - after all, I did offer
I do not expect a free ride from any man. I know how expensive it is to date these days and feel sorry for guys who are constantly being stuck with the tab.
I'm sure there will be backlash for my thinking - but that's how I feel | |
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