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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 3:39:31 PM | I think Creativguy said it the best...he hit it right on, as far as my opinion is concerned. You keep doing the Chivalry thing, because it says something to a woman. You ARE a gentleman and that is Chivalry. I don't care what the percentages of anything are or what year it happens to be....you are a real gentleman to me.
I am not going to be popular on this subject and I will bet there are other older women who feel the way I do, but are afraid they'll get their heads ripped off in this forum. I want to say something to the men out there....
I can only speak from MY point of view and maybe consider I am an older woman. My Dad raised my brothers and I raised my son to be a gentleman when dating a woman. To me that was all the endearing manners, such as opening doors and helping you with your coat and yes...paying for dinner and the date.This is at the beginning stage of the "courtship". After you get to know one another and you have a few dates, then I feel if a woman offers to pay, then okay!
I date men that are in their late 40's and mostly 50's yrs of age. Maybe that's why I and these men feel the way they do. However, my daughters are in their 20's and do not mind paying, but again, feel he was not that into them or not romantic. I always offer, especially on the first date, but all the men I have ever dated insisted that he pay. Men have told me they felt very uncomfortable and are rather insulted by the offer. It does strike me in a negative way when a man asks me out to dinner or whatever and does not pay. To me, I just do not see him as a gentleman. I also make sure I have a way to pay, just in case. I know some women feel they can take care of themselves and feel it is taking advantage, but it is not that to me. It is the principle of chivalry and the gentleman factor.
Some men blame womens Lib on every woman out there. Although I do agree on equal pay for the same job and fair women's rights, but most of the modern day woman thinking is not my style. I am not insulted if a man offers to pay or open my car door or takes my arm in a slippery parking lot in the winter. I think that is wonderful and I feel very feminine. I am rather traditional and even though it is 2007, chivalry, manners, romance and being a gentleman should not change. It's not that I expect to be taken care of. I work and have taken care of myself for years, raised children and kept a house. To me, it is that he is showing his characteristics of romance and respect of a woman. What he projects on the first couple of dates, tells me something about him. No man has ever made me feel "I owe him something" because he bought me dinner. No man ever got mad that it didn't work out and he happen to have payed for a meeting that went no where. I thank him several times and thank him for being such a gentleman. These men end up saying "thank you for your company." Now isn' t that sweet? Why is it so bad to be sweet and giving? It should make you feel good instead of questioning motives and being bitter about spending money for a dinner.
I, in turn, have done things for the men in my life. I have cooked dinners, took him out to breakfast, breakfast in bed,baked his favorite dessert, left the tip, gave him a back rub and many other endearing gestures to thank him for his efforts. I think a man should pay for dinner, only because he is the man and especially on the first few dates. Otherwise, I think you are just cheap and have no respect for romance and chivalry. If he's cheap on the first and second date, then he'll always be cheap and a tight wad. I would assume also, that he is not a romantic man, so expect no romance either. That's just an old broads opinion!
Okay...go at me! I expect to be riddled with insults....but it's okay
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 3:42:19 PM |
Hi All
It's my third date with a girl I'm really quite keen on - and this time it's for dinner. It's very early stages and so far we've only got as far as kissing on the cheek when saying goodbye. It was my suggestion to go for dinner, and I'm wondering what to do if she offers to pay half the bill. Should I accept?
I have to admit I would prefer to split the cost, since the restaurant is fairly expensive, and while I have a reasonable job - I reckon she earns about three times what I do. On the other hand I don't want to appear unromantic.
What do you folks think?
ALWAYS split the bill. If they wouldn't hang out with you just to be with you, it's not worth it.
But you could buy or make her presents when she least expect it, AFTER sexual relationship, which means alot more than bringing her flowers and buying her dinner like all the average guys. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 3:45:59 PM | Ok got to come in and weigh in on this one...OP.. I am going to hit your topic first.
Sadly you are the one that mentioned the date at a higher income bracket than you are comfortable with..So in my opinion you are stuck with it..This time around..
I have also read all the posts..
Red Cassandera. Way to go. Old Soul..thank God I am not in the only one category here..
I also feel somewhere in this age of dating the rules are so blurred.. We women scream and holler we want all the rights. We say if they ask us out then they pay..
Now this confuses me.. Since I don't believe in making the guy pay all the way.. On the first meet. I insist on paying my way.. IF it is going to turn into a scene..I always say okay, but if there is a next time my treat..
When we make contact for the next time.. I set the ground rules right then and there I am paying...
With this I still expect my door opened all the good stuff. That goes along with being a woman..
When the relationship is established I pay the way as much as he does.. I refuse to let it become one sided..
I recently was asked to take a run the post office with someone.. and get a chocolate bar afterwards..I couldn't go.. Dang it.
But like we both laughed about later would have been the perfect date..
Why does dating involve all the hoopla of money.
Gentlemen..
Want to impress me..
Meet me with a small flower, Take me on a walk, Of heck I have even been offered a midnite hike..Can't get more romantic than that.. He had to bring something warm to drink tho...
Romance, Chiverly {sp}.. are not things that cost money they come from the soul. They are free to give.. They should be free to give..
Being a gentleman or Lady can be done walking thru the park.. Of in a crowded flea market..
I am beginning to understand why I am still single. I dont' want to big flashy dinner's. Then bend over backwards and IMPRESS me gig's.. I want the real person | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 3:46:01 PM | Mister,
You are pitiful asking such a question at your age. You are lucky to have a date at all. What a trip! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 3:59:42 PM | No one whines so shrill as a man whining about whining women. Do they?
Who invites, pays. Feminism doesn't enter into it. Chivalry doesn't enter into it. It's a matter of who is the host and who is the guest. If you have invited your father, your broker, your cleaning lady, or your worst enemy, you are their host, and they are your guest. If they invite you, same same. All these whiney, whiney, whiney men trying to avoid the single most fundamental of social relationships only to save a few bucks are, well, a godsend! Thanks, guys! You are making me look so good!
Cheese!
Vulf  | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 4:03:52 PM | Don't turn a "date" into some formal thing where there's a host and a guest. In fact, don't do "dates" as in dinner, movie, etc.
Do something fun like going to an amusement park, or something else adventurous and eating somewhere is just a pit stop. | |
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V5RED
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Joined: 7/25/2007
Msg: 83 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 4:16:33 PM | unless he is getting booty from her already, she is basically his acquaintance
if he asked his buddies to go to the bar should he buy their drinks? hell no...and thats for friends...people who matter, not someone who is basically a stranger to him from whom he has thus far gotten bupkus
why the hell should he pay now? just because he is turned on by her? if my buddies dress sexy should i pay for them too?
hell she makes a ton more than him...id be offended if i were her...probably a higher up in a company still being treated like a helpless little girl because of women who want to be treated like special but say they are equal | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 4:35:53 PM | OP
I am from a different generation. I always pick up the tab, even when the date asks if this is "dutch". American Express, never leave home without it! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 4:41:44 PM | Dude, I think you're on the hook for the bill. It would be really bad form to even hint that it's a stretch for you until well after the date is over. I would have the conversation about what you can afford some time soon, though. You don't want to be conveying the wrong impression.
Still, if she offers to pay half on the spot, I'd make her repeat the offer at least twice more before taking her up on it. Nobody repeats an offer three times unless she means it, and if she means it, that's a very good sign!
I don't believe that the man should always pay. However, the host always should unless it would be ungracious not to accept an offer of help. So, make sure you have enough cash on hand to cover a meal that you'll both fully enjoy and then enjoy it fully. If she insists on helping out with the bill, so much the better.
The "men pay" rule made sense back in the days when women were considered property. But thankfully, women aren't any more, and that entitles them to the privilege of playing host just like men. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 4:43:56 PM | I've had a man ask me where I'm taking him for dinner...I didn't think twice about it actually. My point is who really cares who does the paying.
Since you mentioned you're "keen" on her and you've only had a kiss on the cheek I'm guessing this dinner might move things along to something a little more. 
Just plan to pay and be thankful for having her there to enjoy! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 5:15:23 PM | | always ask for separate checks and know where your exits are!!!! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 5:23:14 PM | Chivalry, that which originated with the mounted cavalry and feudalism, is now being reduced to who picks up the check. I think Sir Gawain would be disappointed in the lot of you. The man pays? Because this is chivalrous?
From "The Broad-Stone of Honour":
"Chivalry is only a name for that general spirit or state of mind which disposes men to heroic actions and keeps them conversant with all that is beautiful and sublime in the intellectual and moral world."
I have seen the word Chivalry tossed about in this thread (In other conversations in life) in regard to the man paying for the date.
I can only shake my head at men who display their wallets and insist, no, demand (At times, to the point of arguing) to pay the bill and yet in some (Or all) other aspects of the courting process of the lady, neglect all other facets of being chivalrous. The peacock displaying his Benjamin, Grant, Jackson and Hamilton feathers prominently who picks up your check, is often times the same "Chivalrous Knight" who at the close of your date, tells you, "I'll call". How many threads are on here complaining men don't call? Gentlemen I ask you, where is the chivalry in lying to your lady?
In the same manner, I can only look suspiciously upon the woman who insists she is a modern woman; in all rights and reasons, in all definitions and yet insists the man must pay. Why? Because it's chivalrous! Well ladies, so is a jousting tournament at which your suited knight, will knock the fellow coming the other direction flat on his a$$ with a rather large lance to gain your affection. Would you mind if I stood up during the date and punched out the waiter when he winks at you? You know, it's chivalrous!
The courting process was much more involved back then, as you can well imagine. There was no sidewalk Starbucks at which the two lovebirds stopped to have a coffee and discuss the contents of their iPods. So, in 2007, we now have the b*stard step-child of chivalry; the misunderstood and misused phrase used and abused when it suits what I can only say amounts to a rather tremendous amount of bullsh*t.
The reality of the origins and subsequent definitions of Chivalry? They morphed through centuries, because the times, they are a-changin. (Bob Dylan anyone? Am I showing my age?)
Chivalry in 2007; we have a list that has evolved as the "Seven Knightly Virtues of Modern Chivalry": Courage, Justice, Mercy, Generosity, Faith, Nobility and Hope.
For the sake of this thread and my getting to a point, I will only bring up "Generosity". It should ideally, know no bounds. However, at what point does generosity in one, lead to gluttony in another? At what point, is my generosity being taken advantage of? We are not, technically, living in medieval times. (I will leave politics out of this.) We are in fact, living in an age when the lady we court, is earning her way in the world. She is independent and has goals all her own. Perhaps, she makes more money than we do.
The man is expected by some women to pay for the date, because it's Chivalrous. Misused again. Where is the woman's generosity in that? Does generosity only extend to the man? We are expected to be Chivalrous, when in fact with such a confused notion of exactly what that is, how can you be?
Alternately the man hears:
If you don't pay, you are cheap.
If you insist on paying, you're controlling.
This is why I raised I raised my sons to disregard both of the notions and simply respect women, without rule. Women are independent creatures, quite capable of making their own decisions and paying for their own meals. I offer to pay? Always. She offers to split the bill? I respect her decision. Cheap does not figure into this equation. It has no place.
Chivalry in origin and Chivalry in 2007 is still at the core, about respect. Anyone who believes they can put a monetary value on respect; whether it's a man who believes buying a woman a $400 bottle of wine will score him points, or a woman believing the man buying her a $400 bottle of wine will most certainly "call her" when he says he will, has no concept of what either Chivalry or love really means. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 5:32:30 PM | Finally a question that I wanted to respond to.
I've been on several dates with women from POF and when it comes time to pay - none - not one made an effort to pay. That's just not right. Give me at least a feable "let me split it with you". I felt like I was being used a little. When did the clock turn back to 1950? We're both adults capable of contributing in the early stages when we're both deciding if we want to pursue a relationship. Don't say yes to dinner if you don't think the guy is worth 50% of a meal cost.
I am a gentleman and would pay no matter what with no strings attached. I've sat through dinners with women who I knew after 30 min that we were not right at all. Whether good chemistry or not, paying was never in question for me. I've heard stories where the guy excuses himself to go to the bathroom and just never returns. Is that what women want?
I agree with the posts that say - you're both basically just getting to know each other - so you both should contribute regardless of who does the asking. Dinner is a good way to spend a few hours face-to-face. When the woman suggested dinner, I still have paid the whole bill. Don't women hate double standards. The person who brought up the point about going out with friends for a beer...exactly... my friends wouldn't expect me to pay for any/all of their drinks. So why does the man have to pay on a date automatically? Most of the women on POF write on their Profiles that "if you're into games or one-nighters, move on" and yet they are totally fine to let the guy pay. Many guys might see that as setting expectations. Is that what women want? He's good enough to get a dinner out of but not good enough to make an investment in??
If I were a woman, I would want to send signals that we're equal. Then no one is obligated for any reason to the other (whether real/perceived/implied). Regardless of who asked who - make the effort to try and split. That's the right and decent thing to do. We're not sugar daddies for you. We're nice guys hoping to find a nice woman...no different than you. I'm not buying your attention for the evening. If I am, then I don't want you. If you want a sugar daddy - I'm sure you'll find him one day and be very unhappy in life.
To me, if she can't show that much decency early in the relationship then she's definitely not the type of person I want to continue a relationship with.
So all you ladies who quickly wrote back "you asked, you pay", if you want to be taken seriously and encourage guys to treat you with respect... show us you have class. When you engage in behaviour like you "expect" to be wined and dined, you will attract the (minority) type of shallow guy who "expects" to get paid back. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 5:35:21 PM | | ^^^ I feel that you should have the balls to tell the woman to pay if you feel that it's not fair of her to not offer to pay half. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 5:47:41 PM |
^^^ I feel that you should have the balls to tell the woman to pay if you feel that it's not fair of her to not offer to pay half.
Lmao. I completely agree with this statement. At least then the woman would know exactly how you feel about the situation and there would be no misunderstandings.
I like Zeanah date men in their 40-50s, and they do tend to insist on picking up the tab, so I guess that's what I'm used to, but if I were to date a younger man, I would rather he was up-front about his feelings. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 6:04:28 PM | Topjack and Busaman,
My God, you both are putting me to sleep, but at least you have the right answer in between all that crap, oops, individual, meaningful perspective.
Busaman, consider meeting for drinks, rather than dinner. Save you a lot of time and $$$$. :) | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 6:11:48 PM | | Amazing how "independent" rarely comes into play when time to pay the bill... | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 6:45:52 PM | Jack,
you are a noble soul and not from this world either. 
Ms DamselInDistressRed
aka
AlienRed | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 6:53:04 PM | I agree with the posts that say - you're both basically just getting to know each other - so you both should contribute regardless of who does the asking. Dinner is a good way to spend a few hours face-to-face. When the woman suggested dinner, I still have paid the whole bill. Don't women hate double standards. The person who brought up the point about going out with friends for a beer...exactly... my friends wouldn't expect me to pay for any/all of their drinks. So why does the man have to pay on a date automatically?
Amazing how "independent" rarely comes into play when time to pay the bill...
I agree with these statements. If some of my male friends ask me to go out to eat with them, I don't expect them to pay for the entire bill. I would be more willing to pay the entire bill if I was going out with friends, relatives, or a serious girlfriend. Not a woman that I don't know that well. bill I think the sentiment that "whoever asks should pay" is a way for some women to avoid paying since most of the time, men ask women to go out. Even when the woman does ask a man out, I doubt that many women are willing to pay the entire bill. A few times a woman asked me out and I still ended up paying all or most of the bill. I also think that some women should stop using outdated "Etiquette" such as the men should always pay. This is 2007, not 1957. If women want to be treated equally, then they should at least offer to pay a portion of the bill. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 6:56:48 PM | | I think all this stuff just plays into how a lot of guys feel used for their money and time these days. I know for me I'm dating a girl right now who lives around 40 miles away, and every time I've seen her I've driven the whole time and paid for everything. She doesn't have a working car or a job and lives with her mother. Yet I know that if I were to suggest that she ride the bus and make the effort to meet me halfway even just on the distance things, it would be insulting to her. It just makes me feel awful sometimes that I put all this effort into seeing someone and they don't really reciprocate that effort. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 7:11:39 PM | I am so disappointed in some of the attitudes. To think, this is what my daughters have to put up with. To even imagine my son treating a woman with "splitting the dinner check" on his mind when he is on a date. I'd kick his a$$ if I heard he did that....his Dad and his Grandfather would be ashamed of him.
Tell me...how would you want your mother, sister or daughter treated by a man on a date? I bet some of the men who talk a good talk on here would throw a fit if their daughter's were treated the way they think a date should be treated. It is not about money. It's about showing someone your character, your respect level, your spirit about showing a certain amount of kindness. Tell me....just how much worth is your daughter in your eyes? Is she worth a dinner or a cup of coffee? That is ridiculous!
I totally agree...if money is an issue, by all means, meet for coffee or get some ice cream or something. No...a first date does not HAVE to include money. I guess I was very naive about this issue. I thought men were still interested in the courtship of dating, but I was very wrong.
I guess I better start asking upfront and get it out of the way, so as not to be paranoid that some guy is complaining on the inside about paying for my dinner. I never thought it would become this petty and shallow. I can certainly pay for my dinner. It is just a nice gesture from a man and it is a real plus in his character. If she is worth meeting, surely she must be worth maybe $10-$30 tops for a nice date to get to know someone.
I am getting way to old for this stuff!  | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 7:17:12 PM | You cheapers.....WHY would you invite a woman out to dinner if you know you have issues about paying.......That is the question I have been trying to get out of all this.
Now that you have invited her and you have concerns about the bill......why not just call it off?
If you are meeting a woman from POF for the first time........why are you complaining about always paying for a cup of coffee? It's less than $2.00.......Just make sure you arrive late and I am sure she will have her coffee in front of her.
Honestly...from what I can see here some of you men on POF are a "sorry lot" who should not even consider yourselves to be men. I am sorry if this sounds like an attack but you are behaving in a manner that even I, as a woman would not.
Simply, if I cannot afford something, I'll let you know what I can afford to treat you to....whatever I offer or give, I try not to make an issue out of it. To see the attitude coming from some of the men makes me feel hopeless...........Like....Is THAT what is out there? | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 7:18:21 PM | | Zeanah, maybe things have changed to the point where the woman is actually expected to respect the man just as much as he is expected to respect her. After all, if the amount of money a man spends indicates how much he respects a woman, then how much respect can a woman who spends nothing have for a man? | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 7:33:18 PM | Hey...it has to start somewhere. Respect comes to those who practice it themselves. And yes...I do respect men, always have and never had a complaint that I didn't. I have even invited men to my home for dinner or suggested to just meet for coffee.
Money is the number one reason for divorce. Financial problems cause a lot of stress on a marriage. If you think paying for dinner or coffee is to much, then you better not date or even consider marriage or children.
It's an individual conviction, but please, don't ask a woman out for dinner, then ***ch about paying afterwards. Just get some balls and tell her upfront your idea of a first date or dating in general, when it comes to $$$. It is an uncomfortable situation to be wondering.
I know I will sure be wondering more now....!  | |
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