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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 7:41:17 PM |
I never thought it would become this petty and shallow.
You cheapers.....WHY would you invite a woman out to dinner if you know you have issues about paying.......That is the question I have been trying to get out of all this.
I think that a woman is being shallow and cheap if she expects a man to pay for a date. I would never go out anywhere and expect the other person to pay for me just because they invited me to go someplace. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 7:53:43 PM | mes.# 98
Simply, if I cannot afford something, I'll let you know what I can afford to treat you to....whatever I offer or give, I try not to make an issue out of it. To see the attitude coming from some of the men makes me feel hopeless...........Like....Is THAT what is out there?
Exactly! I've done MY share of paying, either by paying my own way or paying for both!! If I have the money, I go out. If I don't, I stay in....SIMPLE!! But I would NEVER in a million years have thought of coming on a public board to start complaining and moaning about how expensive my date was...NEVER!! A date HE asked for !!!!! I can't even imagine waking up one day and seeing someone I went out with the night before b!tching and complaining on a public forum of how much money he spent on ME !!!!!
I would be MORTIFIED!!! And of course if I had offered to pay dutch, then I would have been accused of being a FEM-NAZI out to "prove" something!! Another independent controlling B!TCH!!! NOTHING we EVER do is ever RIGHT!!!! Well you men can keep your damn money and your damn rules as far as I'm concerned....I have my OWN money and I'm sick of your rules! 
Merry Christmas!
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 7:53:59 PM | | I think the tit-for-tat nature of this issue is really a bad thing on both sides...after all ladies, when you're so insistent on being compensated for the time you spend with a man, it's no wonder a man will expect that you compensate him as well...with sex. So you can't really have it both ways, like they say there is no such thing as a free lunch. Of course I myself don't take this attitude and indeed don't plan on having sex until marriage, which is why it's more frustrating for me than many. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 7:55:35 PM | | If you like her, don't you have an urge to treat her to a nice dinner just to be nice? If you don't, maybe you shouldn't be dating her. If you don't ever have that urge, maybe you shouldn't be dating at all. This is a very bad sign. If you don't feel like doing nice things for her at this early a stage, how would it be if you actually had a long term relationship with her? | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 8:05:47 PM | | I think most guys do feel like doing very nice things for the ladies. I know I've got a date planned for Friday that will be a horse-and-carriage ride, then cooking dinner at my place, and the girl definitely thinks this will be very romantic. So...why don't they feel like doing nice things for us? I mean, should the guy really be the only one making an effort to make the other person feel special? | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 8:08:15 PM | The first question from the Poster was awful, but the responses from the men (especially around my age) freaked me out. Lots of rambling of beliefs on deeper issues. I am so disappointed that the men didn’t “take this guy” out! It was a simple man’s question. They need other men to put them in their place, rather than have ya’ll ****ing about “your tired of being taken for a ride by women”. Any role models out there? ( Shield...:)..I know there are some on the posts and thank you for that).
Zeanah, I also feel sorry for the younger female generation. Yuck!! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 8:24:10 PM | Are we all reading the same messages? I might have to see my eye doctor tomorrow. As as my favorite knight said: respect, love and monetary appreciation are very different things.
Anyone who believes they can put a monetary value on respect; whether it's a man who believes buying a woman a $400 bottle of wine will score him points, or a woman believing the man buying her a $400 bottle of wine will most certainly "call her" when he says he will, has no concept of what either Chivalry or love really means.
I would like to contrast this with another message:
Tell me....just how much worth is your daughter in your eyes? Is she worth a dinner or a cup of coffee?
I am sorry, Zeanah59, but worth of one's daughter should NEVER be compared with a worth of a dinner, or a cup of coffee... or a diamond ring, for that matter. Because what you are saying here is that one's daughter's value could be measured in monetary terms... the question is then how much is she worth? Damn it, that's what prostitution is all about... And, I have argued number of times with men who say that same thing (I pay for dinner, you provide company), hence I think that I can argue with women as well.
Character, respect and kindness (all of which you mention in a sentence prior to the one I quoted, but then decided to put them aside and bring it all down to the question of footing the bill) have nothing to do with money. You should know better than that, I am sorry to say.
This thread is really making me sad now. 
Ms SadRed | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 8:34:28 PM | | The thing that bothers me the most about this stuff is that it can't even be discussed without someone being shouted down as a skin flint, or perhaps a gold digger or serial dater! I just want to feel like somebody is putting as much effort into a relationship as I am. Since I'm a man, I guess I get to grin and bear it. That's it for me in this thread. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 8:56:16 PM | But that's my point exactly...if a man cannot even feel good about paying for a dinner, then what does that say about how he would treat my daughter in general, treat her emotional needs, romance, intimacy??? First impressions do count. I ALSO have a professional background on behavioral issues. How could you honestly believe I would think my daughter's entire worth is a dinner? Please...give me more credit than that.
You have lost my point completely. What I am saying is...if a man wants to date and have the woman pay for her share, then just say it. Quit hiding it if you are so proud about it. Quit doing it then ***ching about it. If you have expectations about the money issue, then it should be brought out into the open. And...I like being a woman! I like being treated feminine and romantic. I don't need a man's money to make me happy. I do like to be treated like a woman in the traditional sense and I do the same for a man. I taught my daughters to be self sufficient financially. I have also taught them to be feminine and caring about the opposite sex. Yes...of course a woman has to respect the man also. But groaning about paying for a dinner is just being a cry baby. If you can't handle it, then don't suggest it or do it!
We are raising a generation of cry babies. I see it everyday at the school I work at. No respect for anyone, let alone a woman and man relationship. Boys and girls alike are losing the caring, kindness and the respect for people in general and it breaks my heart. No wonder there is so much confusion. It really is the generation of "it's all about me me me!" I won't apologize for wanting to be treated special and romantic. It's not for every woman. Some women think it is insulting and that's fine. But as for me....I love the tradition of a courtship and it is a great feeling to be treated with kindness and giving it back. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 9:07:40 PM | Come on now op..... if she offers to pay half the bill, you'd be silly not to accept. Especially if that is what you'd prefer anyway. If that's some kind of stupid test she's putting you through to find out if you're some kind of cheapskate, than you really don't need a girl like that in the first place at all. Why then...... you'd need a WOMAN!!! One who is willing to be giving as well.
It's the new millenium and last time I looked, things were getting awful expensive and well, most peoples pay is not matching the inflation level in the least. Accept the offer graciously.
I have no problem paying for half, as a matter of fact I've split the cost on many occasions as well as taking turns paying. It's really no big deal. Only Princess's and Diva's expect to have their way paid in full. Who wants to put up with that crap???
:))
Witchy | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 9:22:40 PM | I liked shieldvulf's response — short and to the point:
Who invites, pays. Feminism doesn't enter into it. Chivalry doesn't enter into it. It's a matter of who is the host and who is the guest. If you have invited your father, your broker, your cleaning lady, or your worst enemy, you are their host, and they are your guest. If they invite you, same same.
I feel a little bad for the OP. I didn't see any whining, only a genuine question which in turn elicited the typical knee-jerk responses from a few. He asked an honest question, and it was answered.
As for:
I, in turn, have done things for the men in my life. I have cooked dinners, took him out to breakfast, breakfast in bed,baked his favorite dessert, left the tip, gave him a back rub and many other endearing gestures to thank him for his efforts. I think a man should pay for dinner, only because he is the man and especially on the first few dates. Otherwise, I think you are just cheap and have no respect for romance and chivalry.
You know what? I want dinner cooked for me. I want breakfast in bed. I want him to bake my favorite dessert. I want backrubs and endearing gestures... NOT in return for anything but because I'm adored.
In return, the reciprocation will be spectacular and will not follow antiquated gender biases cloaked in words like "chivalry" and "gentlemanly behaviour". | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 9:41:04 PM | | Tell her you'll pay this time and next time, it's her turn. You won't be disappointed. I really hope you slip her some tongue, too. Love, Titus | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 1:01:15 AM | What a mess.
Whoever invites, pays. You already invited. Question- what would you do if she were broke and didnt make 3 times what you make seeing as you've already invited her and its to an expensive restaurant? Makes the whole thing look as though you were counting on dutch and lemme tell you any girl who makes 3 times IT is used to offers to pay the whole thing. Its just the way the world works and most guys wont let us pay- maybe the tip, maybe later on or reciprocate with home-cooked. You invited- you pay and discuss an abrupt, awkward change nest date. Also, she'll likely understand if you need to go to less expensive places, but if you bring this up now after plans are made, you'll look bad.* So would I if I invited a guy and then asked for money.* | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 1:14:54 AM | | I am curious as to why you would think she might offer to pay half after you asked her out? I mean has she offered to pay for her own coffee on dates and such? Even if she has, you actually asked her out for dinner. I don't think it would be in bad taste to be honest and tell her it's too pricey for your budget if she's the one who suggested the restaurant. You could both learn more about each other in a way, after your conversation. Could be a good thing. I say just be honest. Good luck, E | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 4:16:26 AM |
I do like to be treated like a woman in the traditional sense and I do the same for a man.
Would like to hear your definition of the "Traditional Sense". | |
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Jelnet
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Joined: 12/6/2006
Msg: 116 | |
| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 5:13:46 AM |
lovesthebeatles said: I am curious as to why you would think she might offer to pay half after you asked her out?
Because on our last date, we went to the movies (I bought the tickets in advance)... and beforehand we went for a coffee and a muffin. She bought the coffees. Of course I was happy to pay for the movie and didn't want her to pay for that, but was happy to accept her getting the coffees. But I think this illustrates she's prepared to contribute.
Now I must make clear, in the dinner situation - I wouldn't dream of "asking" her to pay half - that would just be too embarrassing. My only question was what to do if she offers. Personally I'd be quite happy to accept, because I am on quite a tight budget, not because I'm mean or cheap. Also, if we were to establish a "relationship" I couldn't keep up with paying for everything, so am a bit wary of giving the false impression that I am able to do that.
Of course nothing may come of this at all anyway. My feeling though, so far, from reading the many posts is that dating in the 2000's should be on an equal footing, with neither party "expecting" anything from the other, other than to be treated with respect and hopefully have a nice time. If the one party wants to pay let them, though both should offer. And if you offer, then expect that offer to be taken up, otherwise don't bother. We're there to spend time in someone's company and see if there's a connection - both parties need to invest equally in that, no? | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 5:24:48 AM | My suggestion is "Cancel that date" It is going to be wasted money for you and you will end up being bitter about it. This woman is going to sense things and break it off.... better you do it before you spend all that money....that's it for me....
Good luck to all you men and women out there......I really do hope you find your perfect match in EVERY sense of the word....... | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 5:53:09 AM | AlexeiKaramazov
Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/26/2007 10 28 PM
The thing that bothers me the most about this stuff is that it can't even be discussed without someone being shouted down as a skin flint, or perhaps a gold digger or serial dater! I just want to feel like somebody is putting as much effort into a relationship as I am. Since I'm a man, I guess I get to grin and bear it. That's it for me in this thread.
For me, it is simple.......I DO NOT OFFER WHAT I CANNOT AFFORD.......that's the whole point I am trying to get accross. You spend your money on someone you claim to love, carraige ride, etc. She doesn't work, she doesn't spend.....yet you are doing all that and coming in the forum to gripe about about women not paying their half....why do you do it and continue to do it?........IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO DO SOMETHING, FIND CHEAPER OR NO COST ALTERNATIVE....... DONT MAKE BIG STANCE WITH NOTHING BUT YOUR MOUTH......then gripe.
I have invited men out over and over....not an issue. I dont ask men to invite me out. Any invitation from them is at their own free will. If I invite them out I pay....always. Last date I went on, when we arrived at the restaurant, he had forgotten his wallet....genuine mistake.....he wanted to go back home for it.....I told him no....I would pay.......Although he was uncomfortable about it ..... said it made him feel like a "kept man". He was never happy about it and insisted on paying me back at a later date.
What I have nowadays is a lot of sadness for the level some men have resorted to ..... If I ever see my son behaving in the same manner, I will give up on him. Hopefully, he will make an intelligent choice from among his peers and make success of it a full time job. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 5:53:50 AM | I have always taught my son to respect women no matter what, that includes taking care of everything from dinner to opening doors.....once an actual relationship is started then its called sharing...I have also told him if the woman offers to pay, politely say thank you but you will take care of it and maybe next time I will let you.........
These first coffee dates seem to be a real problem with men, you still expect to pay.....but most of the time it is you that says ok lets meet(well on my part it is), so I always say ok lets go somewhere like coffee shop to talk, if I get there before he does I usually buy my own.......sheesh, I wonder how you all men were brought up...just because we have the right to vote, make as much money as you do(or better) does not give you the right to treat us like your buddy.
ok sorry my opinion. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 7:31:15 AM | Tradition is beliefs, customs or an inherited way of thinking or acting, a pattern of cultural beliefs. As for me, I am from a generation that it was an honor to be treated as a lady by a man. I am talking in the "dating" sense, which my parents called "courting". Courtship was considered courtesy and showing respect towards the opposite sex. All my dating life, I have only experienced traditional courtship. Men have asked me out, took me to dinner and gladly picked up the check. I'd offer and would be scowled at as if it was an insult. I think their are some men out there that enjoy giving and the excitement of courtship. It's nice to feel special and treated like a lady. As one poster said "I am not your drinking buddies."
Gentleman,by definition, is well mannered, sensitive, considerate with high standards of proper behavior.
Adoration (as one poster said she wanted to be treated) is being worshiped and honored.
Chivalry is valor, courtesy and generosity.
Cheap is of costing very little, little labor or trouble, stingy, miserly, shoddiness or at a small cost.
Adoration will only be given by the chivalrous gentleman. Adoration and cheap, do not mix nor will it happen.
Tradition to me is a man who asks a woman out for a date and is just simply a gentleman, whether they meet and are a match or not. Being a gentleman goes way beyond paying for dinner. It is his manners and his character, how he interacts with the people around him and his level of respect to women and people in general. It's a choice for a man how he wants to treat women on a first date and/or while he "courts" her to see if it is a lasting relationship. The men I have dated, do not seem to have a problem with this. They walk away knowing they were gentlemen and treated a woman with respect. Most of these men remain my friends and never once complained that they acted as a gentleman. In fact, after I thanked them many times over, would say they "enjoyed" the date and would only treat a date as such. Any long term relationship I have ever been in, this was never a question, it was just done without thinking. It was enjoyed by both. As he courted me, I courted him and the rewards for both of us were tremendous! The man was never left doing it all. It is just a beginning and the subject becomes much deeper as the relationship grows.
I don't see why this is such an argument. It is simple actually. Just say what your intentions are and quit hiding the fact that you hold animosity about paying for the entire date. I feel most women would appreciate your honesty, it would keep them from wondering and then there are no complaints behind their back about having to pay for their dinner. I have had men say "I want to take you out to dinner and it is my treat." I have men not say their intentions and I then say, "okay, we can go dutch!" I always got the response as "No No...I am taking you out on a date and I insist to pay for the evening. Do you think I am not a gentleman?" I had one man tell me he wouldn't meet me if I did not agree to allow him to treat me to the evening plans. So you see, I am not used to this line of thinking and style of dating. I know times have changed, but does the art of romance and caring have to change too?
It is also an individual choice for women as well. Some like the traditional male, some like their independence on even this small level, some women feel that tradition and chivalry are out dated, some women feel obligated and uncomfortable...it doesn't matter. It is the fact that if a man does not want to pay for dinner and the date, he needs to be upfront about it and not ***ch about it after the fact. Be who you are and be clear on your expectations.  | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 8:04:35 AM | | I always foot the bill, no matter where I am, how much it costs or how deep the relationship is. But thats just me, it isn't unreasonable to ask if she would split the bill. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 10:00:58 AM | | I agree with topjack. The word chivalry is used way too loosely here without really knowing that point in history. People are simply picking & choosing what parts that suit them & throw out/ignore the rest. Up until the time chivalry was practiced women were still treated substandard. Even then, chivalry was not always practiced by the lower class. Start spouting about chivalry then would more likely get your face slapped then anything. In fact it was expected. If a man did not put a stop to a womens henpecking would receive the same type of punishment. Physical abuse was an excepted way to ensure a wife is obedient to a man as long as it didn't kill or seriously maimed the wife. The chivalry women think about today is the one they learn from books & movies that reflects little on the actual history back then. So people wanting to bring back chivalry might as well bring back what it actually was like then. | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 10:13:42 AM | Oh, but I don't think that topjack would want to bring back this...
"Physical abuse was an excepted way to ensure a wife is obedient to a man as long as it didn't kill or seriously maimed the wife.
Would you Jack? Would you Cooldude?
Me thinks that's a bit much.... Me not likey being treated substandard or being slapped.
Ms DisobedientRed
PS Just a reminder the hell broke loose after OP asked if he should accept the offer of splitting the bill, should his date offer it... How on earth did we get to maiming women is beyond me.
**scratches her head and vawes "bye"** | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 10:25:14 AM | | dam would hate to meet you in a dark corner Cool......no, us women want men to be gentlemen(thats being chivalrous)..again not being a pal or buddy...we would like it to be the way our grandmas, moms, grandpas and pops were taught to respect and be courteous to all women, to be courtly..........as red said, how the hell did this get to be about abusing women.....ooh me tarzan you jane!!!!!!! | |
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| Dinner Date - Who Pays?
Posted: 11/27/2007 10:29:13 AM | Actually it was brought up by other posters who use chivalry as a way to describe the treatment of women, as one example to "Pay for a meal" is being chivalrous. I was only describing the chivalry from the time period it actual happened which I believe is a bit more accurate & thusly relevant to the topic.
I am only only stating information that already happened previously in history, I am not condoning it in anyway, shape or form. | |
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