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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/12/2008 8:18:53 PM | Mungojoe,
The simplest counter point to all of your arguments is that teachers pass kids that can't read. Why ? Because they don't them to feel bad about themselves. That's the self-esteem movement at work in our schools.
Noexcuse,
Well if everybody in Africa is so glad to be African and to leave it at that, how do you explain Darfur exactly ? That going to be taught at this school ?
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/12/2008 8:37:21 PM |
Why ? Because they don't them to feel bad about themselves.
That is your assumption and entirely wrong at that. what makes it wrong?
The simplest counter point to all of your arguments is that teachers pass kids that can't read.
You assume that this is entirely within the control of the teacher when, in fact, it isn't. The standards for grading, passing and failing are determined by the Ministry of Education bureaucrats. There is also a Ministry mandated literacy test that must be passed to graduate.
If the kid passes those benchmarks and passes the test then the kid passes regardless of the teachers perception of their literacy. The standards don't provide grades for self-esteem, only for meeting the benchmarks. So, unless you are advocating that teachers should lie and artificially deflate the kid's mark you are way off base. | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 3/12/2008 8:49:37 PM | | blacks are so racist , if they opend white only school it would be a ****ing zoo on Tv and media how white people are racist , and black are so violent too :D | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 2:57:57 AM | FAO : -MUNGO @ 372
You may be aware that the UK has 4.3 Indo/Pakistani population .These are religiously and racially diverse people but they are actually Caucasian and have a similar culture to each other,extending over the middle east and the Arabic parts of the world .You are assuming in this post that they would be happy to send their child to a black school since it caters for "at risk " black children.
Nothing could be further from the truth .I have this ethnic group working with me.They have relatives over your way and they visit back and forth and the one big thing that they will say is....what is this obsession that white society has with doing this and doing that for black people ? Its like if you adopt one black child you have done your bit for ALL minorities .If you give aid to Africa then you have helped the world ...lol....including those you haven't !
They say that they came to Britain .They didn't go to black Africa .
My friend Mussaret the Pakistani girl went to private Urdu/Punjabi lessons in her own time.Her parents taught her her own heritage and history .The Pakistani father of young kids sends his to after school lessons in Arabic and Urdu.All funded themselves or their community . We have been talking about it here since I have been posting and they are now more frank and saying that they would rather send their kids to state,C of E ,Catholic,Jewish schools and if ever the need arose and they could....private school but they certainly would not to a black focused school .
Their own cultures,histories and identities are too strong for them to want loose them.
And that is the issue .They seem to knock out most of the theories of difficulties of sitting in a mainstream school and passing those exams even if they live in poor housing and the parents don't speak English because they just immigrated here .
The vast majority are in two parent families and they are given a good clue at home about their backgrounds .
Now the natives .Again they are the root base of Canada so their culture and heritage is as one with the European .You cannot compare Native with black.The Native was already a native where the black chose to come to Canada without picking no cotton first for any European.
You don't expect blacks to fit right in from day one but there again you don't expect that they get special treatment.That they are given all the PC available .That they always have a reason for not doing this or that .
The more we have discussed this the more we feel that black kids are better off in black schools en masse and the rest of us no matter who were are are better off without that constant disruption and PC pampering that goes with it. Same issues here .
@ NOEXCUSE 373
Arabs do not equate themselves to be African .You must know that yourself .While I am pro-human and suddenly you are and do not want division of the word AFRICA because you need to lay claim to an Arab based achievements- you want to promote black only afrocentic schools which contradicts you.You want to pick and choose your divisions.
Arabs identify with the Middle East cultures and the pan Islamic world of tradition which is basically Caucasian .It includes middle East,eastern Europe, some former USSR countries ,India,Pakistan .There are lots of Arabs here too. Its not a case of white skined people verses dark skinned people .No.Its their features ,history,racial origins ,culture etc etc.
If the Arabs considered themselves to be African as such or if the world did, they would have included Arab north African countries in their aid packages but they didn't.
Check it.When the G8 gves aid to Africa or when the celebs gve aid....its only to Black Africa not all of Africa .Thats because the Arabs do not need or require it . They are not AFRICAN . They are Arab .
We are al humans and we deserve respect but that does not mean that we can't see skin colour and racial features . You seem to see them well enough when you want a black focused school and anyone objecting is either a racist or uncle Tom . | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 7:28:15 AM | @Bohnbones1
You make some very ligitimate points.
It sounds to me like it is a school for slow learners. But if you called it this, people would notice the "slow learner" school was heavily black. So to be P.C. and beat them to the punch you call it "afro centric". If it was simply about teaching culture, then you would need "Asian centric" and "Arab centric" schools as well. But apparently for some mysterious reason they are not needed.
At risk" seems to be used a lot to define whom should attend this school. Just what is "at risk"? It seems Canada has a school system already in place. If these "at risk" kids drop out,cause trouble, etc and their parents do not care, have no control over them, etc, how will you get these kids to join and the be interested in the program? Call their parents?
If it is a school meant for everyone, as you keep reiterating, then why not call it an at risk school. What does the continent of Africa have to do with "at risk" kids of all races living in Canada in 2008? It seems by calling it "afro centric" you would deter most kids and parents who are not from Africa.
I have taught in all kinds of schools with different "focuses".
There is only one thing that stands out in all the schools I taught.
If the student DOES NOT WANT TO TRY there is nothing anyone can do.
NOTHING
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Now, at risk of being flamed I agree with you and the more I learn about this issue, the more the term "reform school" comes to mind.
Many have also mentioned the fact that other ethnicites do not seem to have children "at risk".
In the Asian culture the value system is different. The little I do know about that culture is the fact that LEARNING and SCHOOLING is VERY VERY IMPORTANT.
I would go as far as saying that there is a lot of pride associated with being educated.
I also believe that education is a very very important value for the arabic culture.
(I am only basing my statements on Asian students and Arabic students that I had the pleasure of teaching to.)
Some cultures in African countries also hold a very high regard where schooling is concerned. I have noticed that the first generation Africans that I have had the absolute pleasure of knowing are very very proud people and many have known wars and horrible times. Still, they are a proud people and very hard workers.
I have taught to children of parents who were the first generation immigrants. Often times, they simply cannot help their child at home with homework. There are different factors.
1- Both parents work horrible hours, day and night. They are just too tired to help and they are too busy trying to put food on the table.
2- One or both of the parents have difficulty reading. English may not be their first language. (In my area, the mother only spoke créole at home and eventhough some words are French, she was able to understand when I communicated with her but unable to read or write in French.)
3- The parents themselves were, dare I say, dropouts. This is not just a racial issue. They did not like school and it is difficult to help their child with homework when the nightmares of their school days are being relived through their child.
I go on the idea that any parent would surely realize the importance of education for their children.
The more I study this issue, I realize that perhaps, the issues are outside the classroom and I am beginning to think that those "bigger" issues must be addressed before "black focused schools" are created.
I do agree with other posters. It is an experiment.
I ask all of you.
Is it better to do nothing?
Is it better to try something?
I prefer to try something. I also hope that the black population of the Toronto area get involved with the process. I believe many are. Changes have to be supported withing the family unit of the group concerned if this is going to work.
There is one thing though... We must not give up.
Children are our future.
Let's not forget that.
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 2:35:33 PM | I don't have all the answers..
However, my mother was first generation American born to Russian immigrants. Neither of her parents ever spoke much English, and never had any formal schooling. They worked long and hard. She was Valedictorian of her high school, while also doing the books for her parents cement business since the age of 8. She was never pushed to do well in school, and never had the opportunity to receive parental help on her homework. She did well because she wanted to. When I moved away from home, I paid for my own college, and graduated. My German immigrant father didn't even know if I was in school. One day I called and told him I graduated.
I don't like to make excuses for people who do not try, and whose parents do not try to raise their children correctly.. This idea in a way almost says "Hey, its the communities fault. It's not the parents or individuals fault."
If it works, great. Try it. I just don't like the mentality. It seems to be placing the blame on the great people and society of Canada, saying they are currently teaching in some unfair way, so the crime, lack of work ethic, lack of caring of one particular group, is not the individuals fault, it is the societies fault. Its almost like rewarding failure by giving them special programs.
I would be more enthused about some special schools for the gifted of the gifted, rather than wasting time on people who do not want or care to learn. Just my view, I know it isn't very compassionate. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 2:45:07 PM | You assume that this is entirely within the control of the teacher when, in fact, it isn't. The standards for grading, passing and failing are determined by the Ministry of Education bureaucrats. There is also a Ministry mandated literacy test that must be passed to graduate.
If the kid passes those benchmarks and passes the test then the kid passes regardless of the teachers perception of their literacy. The standards don't provide grades for self-esteem, only for meeting the benchmarks. So, unless you are advocating that teachers should lie and artificially deflate the kid's mark you are way off base.
Well somebody in the education system is passing kids that can't read or write very well. Who is it ? You already conceded that kids these days aren't very good at reading and writing and you went on to list the reasons. Somebody somewhere in that ministry decided that kids should be passed no matter how poor their skills are. Ultimately I think it's up to teachers to make sure that kids can read and write (I could have sworn that that was one of the reasons we employed them in the first place) but fine, if you want to blame the bureaucrats that'll do. Would these be the same bureaucrats who think an Afro-Centric school is a great idea ?
And of course they don't provide benchmarks for self-esteem. You can't measure that with any accuracy in the first place. One minute the kid says he feels bad about himself and the next minute he says the opposite. Somebody figured that it was more important that these kids felt good about themselves than whether they could read and write though. Whoever it was also managed to get their half-baked and counterintuitive ideas included into the education system across the Western World to the detriment of our youth.
As somebody who went through our education system as this psycho-babble was being implemented and expanded , I can attest to the fact that the following link and its contents are present in some form or another in our current curiculum.
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/edu.htm
I have no doubt of course that you'll take exception to the source (and I'll grant you that it's a legitimate concern actually) However, I use this link because it encapsulates the main tenets and programs being employed by our education system.
Or try this op-ed piece if it's more to your liking.
http://www.des.emory.edu/mfp/302/302losingfaith.PDF
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 2:55:53 PM | The Fog of war is a good movie about the life of former defense secretary John McNamara.
He described his school days as one room, in which children were seated according to how well they did. He detailed with enthusiasm the constant battle he had with Asian and Jewish kids to get that first seat. That type of system rewarded success, and drove kids to try harder and harder.
So, I agree with gotapulse. Now, kids are taught down to the slowest in the class. Everyone is pushed to be equal. Everyone is meant to feel good and equal, if they can read or not. Competition is now bad. Millions of kids are passed through just so they graduate, and are not looked at as left behind. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 3:36:57 PM | Now now, hold dudes... (The two posters above)
So, I agree with gotapulse. Now, kids are taught down to the slowest in the class. Everyone is pushed to be equal. Everyone is meant to feel good and equal, if they can read or not. Competition is now bad. Millions of kids are passed through just so they graduate, and are not looked at as left behind.
I ask both of you, when was the last time either of you went to school as an adult to actually see what is really going on in a primary school, in a high school?
I teach mathematics in a high school.
I can only speak for the Canadian system and things have changed since Harris (former prime minister of Ontario). Some changes were good, some were bad... Anyway... I digress.
Now there are essentially four groups. (I do not know the terms in English... Sorry.)
Théorique - means the "gifted" kids. Those that will most likely go to university and become professionals. (ie: engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.)
Note: roughly on 10% of the population can take those courses and do very well. I am not judging, merely stating a fact.
Appliqué - means that they are kids that are intelligent but would have a very hard time to succeed well in the "théorique" classes. They are most likely going to go to college, and depending on the faculty sometimes university. Many will become trades men and trades women, work in the clerical field and most will earn a very good living. (ie: amublance attendants, police officers, plumbers, electricians, government clerks, bookkeeping clerks and so many more rewarding careers.)¨
The majority of the students are in those classes.
Échelon local - Those are the children with a lot of learning difficulties. Difficulty concentrating, sometimes with severe behaviour problems, etc. (ie: They will work as labourers, and other jobs that do not need a lot of specialized skills. )
Modulaire - Those are the kids that are for the most part severely limited in their academic skills. (Sadly, it will be very difficult for them to function as a full-time employee. )
Now, if your want to go back to the competition style type of teaching, it would be interesting only to the kids that learn easily. Hence, the "théorique" crowd. Therefore, the teacher would only be teaching to the "smart" ones in the classroom.
I do not want to go back to the days where the drop out rate was roughly around 75% and most dropped out at the grade 10 level. Most of those that dropped out were not stupid. They were not the ones who would become the doctors or the lawyers. Most of these drop outs, mostly in my parent's age group, succeeded in life... My father became a tradesman and earned a lot of money in the 70's during the construction boom. He was "un homme d'araignée". It means he was the one walking on the metal beams hundreds of feet above groud welding the structure of high rise buildings. In those days, cables were not often used... Anyway... He quit school in grade 8.
So, without sounding mean... Dudes... hang fire here...
This is what is done in my area and in most public systems in Ontario. I like that process. Every child should have the opportunity to develop their full potential.
I have taught at all levels, Théorique, Appliqué, Échelon local and Modulaire.
You know what, when you are able to transfer knowledge in a way that they can understand and learn, that is when they get interested and want to "try" and they want to achieve a level of success.
Some kids are so disillusioned with life in general outside school and all that. Those kids are the ones who will tell me that they do not care of the grade they get, as long as they have above 50% in order to get the credit.
I ask you this... Have you ever given back a test to a student that you know studied very very hard and the grade is 65%... No matter what the student does to try and have a better grade, it will most likely always be around 65%... You sincerely believe the student should be kicked out of school because he is reaching his potential? He is trying his best... What more could you ask?
I wonder... Do either of you have any children?
Getting off my soap box now...
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 4:42:52 PM | I even remember watching sit coms a good 25 years ago, and the parent would tell their child "I am proud of you. A hard earned C is better than an easy A."
Now, it is all about what makes kids feel good. As you stated ...
" Have you ever given back a test to a student that you know studied very very hard and the grade is 65%... No matter what the student does to try and have a better grade, it will most likely always be around 65%."
So what is the best plan? There should be several subsets, and schools with different races, so everyone can get the 90%?
Then they get to the real world, and realize nobody cares how they feel, and nobody makes things easy for them. What job takes into consideration your level of energy, your intelligence, your work ethic, and then tapers your position down so that you can perform well enough to get a good job review to feel good about yourself?
I would be in favor of giving all kids 65% if it means they learned 50% more. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 4:59:05 PM | I believe that we will agree to disagree and leave it at that...
Students sometimes fail the class at whatever level they are at. In my country, as previously stated, there are standards at each level that have to be met. THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS.
I have no idea where the comment about trying to make the student feel good come from.
I was only trying to express the fact that a student that is in the right group will hopefully be able to learn at his level and have a better attitude as he finds himself in an environement with students similar to him.
In the real world, you will not see young adults only capable of labourer jobs apply for CEO positions.
By ricochet, you will not see for example a chemical engineer apply for a custodian job in a hotel resort... (In case you want to counter point, I will agree that sometimes young adults will take on survivor jobs in order to help them achieve the employment they are more than capable of applying for. This situation would only be temporary.)
I sense that you seem to think that all teachers are a bunch of stupid people...
You are entitled to your own opinion...
Like I already mentioned, I respecfully agree to disagree and leave it at that. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 5:49:45 PM | ^Well wait a second there.
You've just provided a perfect example of the kind of thinking that has led to the diminishment of our academic standards.
First of all, I sincerely doubt that any kid who can score %65 on any particular test couldn't score %90. That student clearly understands the concepts enough to pass the test. Now, maybe this kid has knowledge retention problems and certain formulas weren't memorized. Maybe the kid figured that their effort was supreme when in fact, they spent all of twenty minutes studying. Kids will tell you what you want to hear if it'll help them to get what they want (which in this case would be a better grade.) Apparently you're more than willing to entertain the idea. That's fine but what do you propose to do ? Give up and just accept it ? Maybe suggest certain study methods ? Tutoring ? OR do you propose rejigging the test so that the kid can get his/her %90 ?
As for this hogwash that anybody suggested kicking students out of school... who said that ? I said to raise the expectations. I said to make actual student achievement (how novel...merit-based grades !) the goal of teachers. I never said anything about kicking students out if they didn't cut the mustard. That you pretty much pulled out of thin air.
Secondly, there are many reasons why the drop-out rates have fluctuated. If any single factor has made the difference though it's that today's students are told that they need a diploma in order to go further than pumping gas.
Now, let's focus on the whole idea of merit-based grading. What exactly is so bad about that ? Competition ? That's the argument I've seen used in defense of 'whole learning' principles ; competition produces low self-esteem apparently. You don't see where the whole 'self-esteem movement' works itself in here ? Really , you don't see it ? Of course, the idea that competition produces poor students it utter nonsense. It's always been utter nonsense that competition is somehow bad in a learning environment yet somehow, the people in charge managed to allow themselves to be convinced that kids did worse when they actually cared about their grades.
If I had children, the very LAST thing I'd want is for them to be graded based on how they felt about themselves. I want them to feel good about themselves thanks to their academic achievements. Know what kids are concerned about most in school these days ? Their peers and how they're perceived by them. They have to talk a certain way, dress a certain way, act a certain way. For far, far too many of these students, being cool is far more important than actually, you know, learning how to read and perform moderate mathematical calculations.
So no, I not only think that you're absolutely wrong with your approach if you advocate this 'whole learning' nonsense, I think it's downright irresponsible of people to think that their children are better off feeling good about how they believe they're perceived rather than feeling good about what they've actually accomplished.
Better yet, read these articles :
http://www.fsu.com/pages/2004/03/01/self_esteem.html
http://www.strike-the-root.com/3/smith/smith1.html
http://www.usatoday.com/life/lifestyle/2005-02-15-self-esteem_x.htm
So don't claim that there has been no such 'self-esteem' movement in the education system and don't claim that the sources are unreliable necessarily either. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 6:16:01 PM | A point I got from reading some of this is that the education system is white focused and that is a good point, If that is the case then the system has to change immediatley, and be one that caters to all.
The schools need to support and cater to all cultures and support multi culturalism in every way shape and form......
As an alternative to segragation, multiculturalism would be a step forward,and it is something you would assume would have been done by now, It is high time the white culture accepted this and educated their children accordingly, and the governments targeted this area.
The slave issue is fairly unique to america (not saying it is the only country or race with this issue at all) and they do need to educate everybody with regard to this white or black, educating both black and white with these issues may help children form their own opinions and bring about the change required in the future. At this stage children learn from their parents, it' stime to help them get and form a new perspective and this can be done through the media and the education system.......
what ever needs to be done to createa healthy environment msut be done but it has to be one of resolution and permanent change and segragtion is only a shot term fix and serves no good in the long term issue of education and reform.... | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 6:20:50 PM | However an African american school is no different to a catholic or christian school or creating an all girls school and all boys school, and if white people want to enroll, give them that choice, someone will create an issue about it, then why not........
It is a good idea to create that option, as an option only....... | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 6:21:38 PM | @Gotapulse,
Thank you for the links...
For the record, they are all based on the US educational system. Believe me, the US educational system ranks way below ours. I do not remember the stats exactly, but Canada is in the top five and the US if I remember correctly past the 10th position.
Anyway, it is not like that in my province at all. Like I said, standards HAVE to be met at all levels and some will fail.
There are dynamics, of course, that can affect the overall performance. Family issues, peer pressure etc.
I have no idea how the education system is structured in your province, but I am sure that standards have to be met also.
I have not yet seen any teacher dumb down the learning curve. We would not be doing them a favour. Also, they would miserably fail in the first year of university of college if they did not have the knowledge expected by these institutions. Again, I am repeating myself. Certain standards at each level have to be met. NO EXCEPTIONS.
It all boils down to the will and the effort the student will put in his own achievements.
I can only do my best at transfering the knowledge needed for the student to learn and succeed.
By the by, at our school, and in most schools, if you would care to check, all kinds of support is given to help the student succeed. Tutoring, extra lessons after classes, etc.
In the end, the student has to WANT to LEARN.
Anyway...
I hope I managed to try and communicate my experience and my perceptions that is all.
You all want to make yourselves believe that we are only trying to make students feel good. Fine... believe what you will, but it is simply not so. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 6:34:35 PM | ^Didn't say that. I said the focus has been on making students feel better about themselves. That's great. In the meantime the academic performance has declined dramatically. You don't see the correlation here ? What other evidence is necessary here ?
The US and the Canadian systems have some differences but overall the curriculum is guided along the same lines.
Have you not noticed how poorly people spell these days ? Ask your local cashier to do some simple math and see how well he or she does without a calculator.
The only fundamental change in our education system over the past thirty years has been the introduction of this so-called 'whole learning' philosophy. While there are certainly outside factors at play, we're only dealing with the subject of the education system here. Obviously this 'whole learning' experiment has failed therefore it stands to reason that we need another approach. We know what used to work so that's a start.
Now, as for your assertion that we're blaming teachers : Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure who in the system is failing the children but somebody definitely is. Either people acknowledge that the same people who think that an Afro-centric school is a good idea and are discredited for their experiments using children as guinea pigs or we acknowledge that teachers need to find a way to get kids learning again using the system that is in place. One way or the other, something has to be done. Blaming the bureaucrats is fine with me actually since that's the opinion I've had for some time. Nevertheless, if people aren't going to assign the lion's share of the blame on them then they're going to have to place it somewhere and that means it's parents and teachers.
Believe it or not, I'm on the side of most teachers. Many of my friends who teach tell me all about the silly guidelines they have to follow . It's an uphill battle that is biased against any teacher who actually wants to see to it that a student can achieve academically. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 6:41:29 PM | Just for fun...
All of you interested...
Have a look... I copy pasted the rankings...
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/26/education.rankings.reut/index.html
Hope the link works...
1. Percent of 15-year-olds falling below international benchmarks:
1. South Korea 1.4
2. Japan 2.2
3. Finland 4.4
4. Canada 5.0
5. Australia 6.2
6. Austria 8.2
7. Britain 9.4
8. Ireland 10.2
9. Sweden 10.8
10. Czech Republic 12.2
11. New Zealand 12.2
12. France 12.6
13. Switzerland 13.0
14. Belgium 14.0
15. Iceland 14.0
16. Hungary 14.2
17. Norway 14.2
18. United States 16.2
19. Germany 17.0
20. Denmark 17.0
21. Spain 18.6
22. Italy 20.2
23. Greece 23.2
24. Portugal 23.6
Source: UNICEF
Anyway... we digress... I believe that we as a nation do care about our students and we have high standards...
Like in any type of employment, there will be red tape and tasks that we may not like to do... True... Still, we strive for excellence in our country.
By actually trying to address the issue by establishing a black focused school in Toronto shows that many people are open to change and trying to give a chance to everyone to become a productive citizen of the country.
Anyway... to each his own...
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 8:19:22 PM | Annasthasia,
As an example..
I read a study that compared the education system today, to the educational system in America 100 years ago.
100 years ago.. 1 room school house. Shared books. All ages together.
Today. .. Computers, school boards, millions and billions of dollars, different grades, different schools, psychologists, etc.
Then they compared the tests.. They found tests that 12 year olds were taking 100 years ago, and administered the tests to college grads. 70% of college grads could not pass the test!
The tests 100 years ago given to 12 year olds were all essay,and involved deep, complicated questions that involved thinking with well written answers. The math section was the equivalent of what kids learn in college.
That is what we mean by kids being dumbed down today. People cannot spell, use punctuation correctly, perform simple mathematics, etc. But they graduated with 90% and feel great!
So you feel school should be easy? Kids should just be put in any level where they can do really well, and feel good about their achievements? That sounds lazy.
Here are more stats for you.. Why do you think the kids find school so boring in the USA and Canada?
Education Statistics > Student attitude > Find school boring (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals
Definition Source Printable version
Bar Graph Map Correlations
Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 Ireland: 67%
#2 United States: 61%
#3 Finland: 60%
#4 Australia: 60%
#5 New Zealand: 60%
#6 Canada: 58%
#7 Norway: 58%
#8 Sweden: 58%
#9 Italy: 54%
#10 United Kingdom: 54%
#11 Germany: 49%
#12 Austria: 49%
#13 Belgium: 46%
#14 Denmark: 41%
#15 Switzerland: 38%
#16 France: 32%
#17 Japan:
Education Statistics > Student attitude > Dislike of school (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals
Definition Source Printable version
Bar Graph Map Correlations
Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 Belgium: 42%
#2 Italy: 38%
#3 France: 37%
#4 Canada: 37%
#5 United States: 35%
#6 Australia: 34%
#7 Ireland: 34%
#8 New Zealand: 34%
#9 Austria: 29%
#10 Switzerland: 28%
#11 United Kingdom: 28%
#12 Finland: 26%
#13 Japan: 25%
#14 Germany: 25%
#15 Norway: 23%
#16 Sweden: 20%
#17 Denmark: | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/13/2008 8:54:23 PM | Ok, I'll play.
Kids should just be put in any level where they can do really well, and feel good about their achievements? That sounds lazy.
This sentence shows how little you know about our educational system.
Before entering high school, in grade 8, the children are evaluated, in literacy and numeracy. Depending on the results of the evaluation and the overall performance, recommendations are given to the parents as to which level the student is supposed to be in.
The only door that almost guarantees entrance to the universities is at the "théorique" level and the student MUST have a high average.
For example, it is a guaranteed failure if a student that is evaluated at the "échelon local" level enrolls in the "théorique classes". The student just does not have the capacity to learn at that level.
Again, this is a recommendation and the parent is still free to chose the "level" his child should enroll in. Some parents sometimes insist on having their child enroll in the "théorique" class, even if the child cannot succeed at that level.
In those circumstance the parents are made aware of the risks involved if they insist on enrolling them in a level where the risk of failure may be very high.
Like I said, you know little about our system and frankly, I am sensing you just do not want to even try to understand... Whatever...
For the others if interested...
http://heartland.temp.siteexecutive.com/pdf/11553.pdf
The link above is the complete report concerning the rankings.
I invite you to go have a look on page 17.
I cannot copy paste it.
It is very interesting to see the compiled data of non-native and first generation children from all countries that participated.
Canada ranks 22 th out of 23 countries for 15 year olds ranking below PISA literacy level 1.
In fact all the section about the non-native and first generation children is very interesting and is pertinent to this thread. (In their report, non-native, means a citizen that was not born in Canada and immigrated here.)
We as a nation have to address this issue somehow.
Anyway, it is an interesting read.
It is late and my English is not good right now... I'm off...
Interesting thread... | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/14/2008 12:39:48 PM |
That is what we mean by kids being dumbed down today. People cannot spell, use punctuation correctly, perform simple mathematics, etc. But they graduated with 90% and feel great!
Yes, I agree with this! In fact I remember the first time I discovered that my niece was allowed to bring a calculator to high school! I was perplexed.
Now, I never did any of the advanced math but I recall filling almost the whole page with calculations done by hand in order to achieve the response.
I did not do well at math, but I worked as a cashier counting the change with no problem.
Funnily enough, some of these kids would probably call older people "dumb" due to their lack of computer knowledge lol!
Great last few posts - very interesting to read! I'm going to have to look at those stats; I'm still unsure whether any culturally focused school is good. The problem lies further than just the schools. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/14/2008 10:15:35 PM | This was an off topic comment in another discussion. It is relevant here. I have put it here so that I can respond to it. Others may want to comment too.
A lot of "Black people" are Racist. Racism goes both ways and is not just limited to "white people". Why the hell do you think they want "Black Focus" School, its just a bloody uthism for Segration. Those people who want those schools are as bad as the pricks who want Shai law in Ontario.
Oh no it's not racism. When people have made it clear that they don't think well of you, why would anyone want to stick around for more rejection and poor treatment.
I don't support Black focus schools but I can understand why some people want them. The current school system in Ontario has a HIGHLY Eurocentric curriculum. It's ridiculous. Black Focus schools are a reaction to that. Frankly, I think that ALL schools should have a balanced curriculum that focuses on WORLD history and geography and highlights the achievements of the brightest and the best.
Also, one can hardly blame people for wanting to spare their kids the trauma that they experienced in school. Do you think it's fun to be automatically excluded when it comes to dating? Do you think it's fun to be sidelined at school dances? Do you think it's fun to be given the messge that you aren'ta acceptable? If you think it's fun going to a high school in which you are one of the few kids that isn't White, try going to an all Black school for a while. Unfortunately, you'll probably get treated better than how Black students are treated at predominantly White schools and get only a small taste of what people have to put up with. I have a better idea. Live in a fundametalist Islamic environment for a while. Pick a setting in which people don't think very much of people from your background. It would do some of the stuck up men on here a WORLD of good to spend a good 2 - 5 years in an environment in which they are deemed to be unworthy by virtue of skin colour or ethnic background. That would bring some of you down a peg or two and maybe some of you will get you nose out of the air and stop looking down on people.
At least at predominantly Black schools, Black teenagers wouldn't be subjected to such humiliating experiences during the most vulnerable stage of their development as they will be in the majority. These are some of the reasons that people support Black focus schools. It isn't racism. It is a reaction to racism and a proposed solution to some very real problems. Frankly, I don't think it will solve anything on a long term basis. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 3/15/2008 8:36:28 AM |
I ask all of you.
Is it better to do nothing?
Is it better to try something?
I prefer to try something. I also hope that the black population of the Toronto area get involved with the process. I believe many are. Changes have to be supported withing the family unit of the group concerned if this is going to work.
Message: My personal experience ~ It depends on what that "something" is ~
We set precedent as we go ~ when we allow or permit certains or behaviors and it offen becomes ~ "common place" ~ a given.
Example; ~ if we allow , turn a blind eye , permit ~ the line between matters of church and state to be blurred, fuzzy or unfocused. ~ The line starts to disappear ~ A few years of not prunning these invading growth ~ this Status Quo ~ What you will hear is " Well we did it last week and it was okay then." ~ Why not now?
And you are very correct ~ the family of the group must be involved to make this work. ~ for any child , for any study ~ for that matter.
I wish someone had sat down with me as a child and explained what an education should mean to me ~ Someone to plant an idea ~ the seed ~ something to offer me reasons ~~ we seem to assume that this is there ~
But it's not! ~ The vision is not there in every child mind ~ dar | |
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| Black Focus schools
Posted: 3/15/2008 9:29:48 AM |
this is canada
our country wasnt founded on slavery and civil wars
Yes, slavery was alive and well in Canada. When the United Empire Loyalists came to Canada, many of them brought their slaves with them. Are you honestly going to tell me you didn't know that? See the problem with a Eurocentric curriculum. People emerge from the school system without even a basic understanding of Canadian history. It's not all about fur traders and European explorers you no.
No civil war perhaps but a close second is the Battle of the Plains of Abraham between the 2 largest charter groups. | |
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| Black Focus schools
Posted: 3/16/2008 7:18:57 AM | Seems ~ you say ~ Black ~~ and slavery ~ seem to pop into the mind
why is that? ~~ We all know ~ slavery is not a black exclusive ~~ do we not?
Salvery transend all race and color boundries ~ from the eariest of recorded history
Slavery was and still is the booty of war. ~ As long as there has been wars.
To be subjected to dominion ` to be enslaved ~ can take many forms. ~
It started out as just killing all the men ~ and take the harvest and what women one fancies. ~ Then it gets more civilized ~ with such things as war apparitions ~ The Treaty of Versailles comes to mind. ~ basicly subigating the German people after WWl. ~
Why do we wish to keep validating ~ this one group and dewell on the injustice offered this one group ~ only aids ~ Staus Quo ~ affirms and justify a reason to be an underclass. ~
I personal don't see this ~ as the way out of the situation ~ I admire men and women like Tiger ~ that refused to be labeled as such. ~ They refuse to allow the past to dictate their future. They refuse the handycap some offer them~ they stand before you as equals.
If you think like a slave ~ you are a slave. ~ dar | |
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| Black Focus schools
Posted: 3/16/2008 7:48:11 AM |
The Toronto District School Board (TDSB) is considering the idea of operating a "black-focus" school to serve the needs of their non-white students
We don't need more segregation, we already have enough.
I think Obama's rant on how blacks (and not just specifically them) must change their attitude about education and get involved with their children is what's needed. It doesn't only take a village to raise a child, or a teacher, it takes at least one good parent that's up to the challenge.
We can't sit back and let schools teach our kids, and not get involved.
I came from a poor working class family, single mother, destroyed by alcoholism and domestic violence. None of that directly touched me, and I still got bedtime stories read to me. I was taught to read and write.
I took out my first library book the first day I went to kindergarten.
We instituted a program in Quebec a long time ago where all students entering university had to take a basic literacy test. Anyone that failed it had to add special course to their studies to get back up to speed.
After graduating high school, and college, they aren't even literate ? Somethings really wrong here.....
We spend time watching TV, and not watching our kids.
We don't need black focused education, we need focused education.
We need schools that can make learning a positive experience, not a negative one. I refuse to accept that we can sit there and somehow decide some kids are bright, and others are stupid - and leave them to their fates.
I think you can reach most of them, if you understand what motivates them. If you are too ready to give up on them, don't be surprised if they give up on themselves. There are many types of intelligence, and they can all be worked with.
I'd much rather break kids up into groups based on how to approach them, not their skin colour.
Let's say a kid is really interested in cars, he's crazy about them in fact. If you go to teach him physics, you can start to directly apply mechanical things related to cars to pique his interest.
That's one of the problems I had in school with science and maths. They are among the most interesting topics to discover, but so often taught like a dead language. Later in life, when I discovered things like PBS and other media outlets that touched on the sciences, I could sit there for an hour totally captivated - and learning, and loving it.
That's where we have to go, and we have to work together to start teaching everyone (parents, children, and teachers alike) that our kids are a natural resource, and they are the future.
Each one we lose makes that future a little less bright....
Just look at how much teachers are undervalued, and underpaid. Look at how we demand them to teach larger classes, and have less time for each student.
This isn't a check out counter at a supermarket - it's the base thing we need to progress on all other fronts. | |
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