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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/24/2008 5:39:24 AM |
I don't speak for all blacks but I will say the thing that irritates me is the fact that a lot of people talk about racism as if it's a thing of the past and doesn't affect people today when in fact that is not the case.
Ok... In your country, especially in the southern part, I believe you.
I visited New Orleans and mostly the area of the Mississippi river and I noticed some strange customs... Yes, I saw some things that completely go against my value system.
I made the mistake once of going on the "black" side of a store... There was no sign... Everyone was polite, but it was awkward for all the locals... It's like there is a 800 pound gorilla in the room and everyone pretends it is not there... It has got to be uncomfortable for the whites and the blacks... Anyway...
You have to understand, I am Canadian and I have very little notion of the racial wounds in your country. The only knowledge I have was what I read in history books and concerning the South it was not pretty...
Back to the topic...
In Canada, you must realize that it is a complete different phenomena.
The black people that come to the Toronto area come because of their own will.
They have not lived in the United States and have a different cultural background from you country.
Some adults and children have learned to steal and do illegal things from their country of origin without any consequences. They apply what was to an extent their way of life here. It is a very difficult adaptation and the parents MUST teach their children by example... Sadly, it is not quite so...
Add to the mix, those that witnessed their whole villages massacred by an other tribe. Civil war and starvation...
Many adults of those first generation immigrants, DO work so so hard in order to achieve a better way of life. It is very difficult to how can I say, straighten a crocked tree. ... (I hope I do not get flamed... I am just stating what I have noticed with first generation immigrants coming to our country.)
For example, I taught a child from the Tutsi tribe, originally from Rwanda.
At 6 years old, he and his younger sister, (two years old), hid in the bush, while he heard and sometimes saw the rival tribe massacre his whole village. They were found four days later by the "casque bleu", Canadian soldiers working the umbrella of the UN.
They had survived by hiding and eating leaves.
His uncle who had moved to Canada prior to the civil war, adopted them. Many moons later, I ended up having him in my class when he was in grade eight.
He was a beautiful child. Very athletic, tall and I knew he would be a very handsome young man some day. He hardly spoke. He was the only black child in my class.
He kept to himself a lot and with a lot of patience and gentleness, I managed to get some smiles out of him. He did make friends and his friends were very "protective" of him. This is just what I noticed. Of course, his friends were white and in my area anyway, the colour of his skin did not matter.
During the history lessons, one of the assignments was to make a geneological map of your ancestry. NOTE: At that time, I did not know of his background. I was not informed and I had no idea of the violence he had witnessed.
He was a hard working child and he had a brilliant mind. His uncle and wife treated him like he was their own. ... As the project progressed, he never started the project. I was pushing him to make a family tree.
Anyway... one day, when I asked the kids to work on the history project, I saw him, take out his blank piece of carton and he just burst out crying... sobbing and sobbing...
The other students tried their best to console him... I went to him and going only on instinct, I just held him in my arms. (We are not supposed to "touch" students... )
He grabbed on to me and I swear I felt the deep deep wounds of his soul. I cannot explain otherwise...
I asked a student to go get the counsellor.
Only then, I heard of his story. He uncle came to school with his wife and they were so so thankful. Basically, since the massacre, he had NEVER shed a tear. EVER... He had nightmares, but never spoke about it... His aunt and uncle did the best they could.
He then, in his language, started talking and everyone just listened. It took a long time.
He then did do the project. His uncle had some pictures of his brother, (the father of my student) , not many of his immediate family, but he did his project and he spoke about his life before the massacre. The students were in awe of him... I was too... Such wisdom... Such strength of character...
Anyway... He could easily have gone the other way...
He is now a mechanical engineer and he has a bright career ahead of him.
I am trying to put things in context... This is my experience as a teacher in the beginning of my career.
When I think of afro-centric schools, I can see the benefits that it would have for the children of first and second generation immigrants.
Whe must be sooooo foreign to their eyes... Children are very resilient and they adapt better than most adults...
Getting off my soap box now...  | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/24/2008 8:59:40 AM | Yes, I do live in the North. However, my family is from and still lives in Alabama so I do have a perspective of the Southern states. Yes, they may be lagging behind, but only a little bit.
That's all about perspective. Black people who make wrong turns on dirt roads still end up at the bottom of lakes in the area I'm originally from but that's a story for another day.
People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton perpetuate racism to keep themselves in the spotlight. Have these people really accomplished anything to reduce racism? Not really, what they have done is to further polarize the issue by being solely black-focused. Have they once spoke out about ANYTHING that a black person has done to a white person? Have they ever stood up for anything that did not involve a black person?
LMAO...... I honestly think white people pay more attention to Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson more than blacks. To be honest I turn the channel when I see them. I will say this though, just about EVERY week those two are up to something and it's the media that brings them to the forefront if they think it means ratings.
Bill Cosby. He has stood up and told the black community to stand up and take responsibility for them selves and to stop looking for someone (the government) to make it all better for them.
You talk as if I'm blaming the white man for all black people's problem. Go check my past posts, I'm just saying racism does exists and a lot are talking as if it doesn't.
You want to know real prejudice in our day and age? Try being a middle aged white man looking for work. No one will hire you as long as there is a black man, black woman or woman of other origin with equal experience and skills. Hiring a white man does not allow the employer to check off any boxes on his affirmative action worksheet. That, my friend is racism.
You're right COMPLETE racism, but to the poster who asks for examples of racism here's one here. When I got a scholarship for college, I had to prove myself b/c I was black because a lot of people automatically assumed affirmative action. When I got my job, the same thing happened. I'm always having to prove myself in certain positions b/c people think I get certain things because i'm black. That's why you hear a lot of blacks say we have to work TWICE as hard in some instances.
So by some of the things you told me about my posts, is it fair for me to assume you're whining now? (couldn't resist) I personally think you're talking from experience just like I am.
With our educational system financially maxed out we cannot afford to fund a black focused school when it would only be supporting a very small percentage (18% max) of the population.
Don't ever remember that being proposed here in the U.S. | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/24/2008 9:51:14 AM | This is the only black-focused school that has been opened in Ontario thus far. Dalton McGuinty okayed it one day and the very next (presumably due to public backlash from various protestors) he stated that if other regions besides Toronto such as Windsor want to open their own black-focus schools he will refuse to support it. "We don't want this getting out of control," he stated. Well duh. Maybe its a little late for that? How do you offer your support one day then just take it away the next?
The issue here really and truly is about curriculum and the overall school experience for non-white teenagers (this school is a secondary school - there are no black-focused elementary schools so far). If our outdated, Eurocentric curriculum was updated to include minority leaders, literature, politicans, historians, etc etc then perhaps black students would not feel they have to turn to something as pitiful as a black-focused school in order to succeed and graduate.
I do not believe there is a need for this type of school anymore than I believe there is a need for gay and lesbian schools. That is truly sad. Many teenagers are too young to truly know their sexual orientation and labelling themselves at that young an age can be very damaging in the future.
Anytime I heard a certain school is opened up for a certain race of orientation I think "segregation". And that is a slippery slope towards a dangerous and ugly disaster. | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/24/2008 1:12:02 PM | Is there any reason why people think this is somehow not racist when as a white person I cannot have my own white focussed school, nor can I have a white power rally, however if I was black I could run black power rallies. This is somehow not prejudiced in any way? Why should we have this school when the last election was about faith based schools, I know its a different issue, but the conservatives lost because of it. So faith based schools are wrong? but race-based schools are ok? This is getting way too out of hand, first every employer now has these questions at the end of each job application
1. are you a member of a visible minority ? - Racist, 2 exact same resumes one with the box checked guess who gets hired?
2. are you an aboriginal - racist for the same reason
3. Are you disabled - not racist, but it is prejudiced for basically the same reasons
Since I live in ottawa, and we are housing and supporting many of these people new to the country, am I now allowed to say I'm a member of a visible minority? HAHAHAHAHA doubtful, like a white person would EVER get away with that. Even if I lived in Toronto, which is now less then 49% white thank you, I could NOT check this box on a job application.
We already give many many many benefits to new comers / minorities to canada, why should they get more and more, while the people who lived here longer, and technically founded the country (the british and french are white) treated and given so much less ? We have welfare, social housing, we even have places where if you have your degree from afganistan as an M.D. for example, you can take this short 1 - 2 year (i dont even know if its still that long) course from canada, and suddenly you're licenced?? Sorry....but I"m pretty sure different countries, especially those classified as 3rd or 2nd world counties have a much lower standard of education then we do. Do you want someone with the education equivalent to your teenager to be your family's doctor?
All of this talk about slavery, theres slavery EVERYWHERE, and it was the blacks who sold their OWN people into slavery in the first place. Also the chinese when they came here in the 1920s and such they were treated terribly, practically slaves, paid 1.00 per day, sometimes less forced to go into mines and set off primitive explosives, most of them detonated prematurely by the way. So in light of all of this, where is the chinese focused school?
The point is we need to STOP giving all of these freebies for everyone else, there is too much wrong with our country already to waste money on these useless pursuits.
Another thing, as for multiculturalism canada...who cares, it was our moron Trudeau who got us into this immigrants come before countrymen way of thinking. Egypt along with many many MANY other places are more multicultural then canada every day, so who cares. | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/24/2008 2:46:40 PM |
When I think of a black focus school, I do not see segregation of races, rather I see a venue where black kids and other nationalities can be better informed about a particular culture . I see it as a way of making the black youth of this society proud of their heritage.
What makes you think that parents of kids of other groups would want to attend a black focused school and learn black culture at the expense of their own ? I was chatting to various collegues and one Pakistani girl said that they wouldn't go..why would they? They know their own history and culture from home and family and they live in a western country so they expect to learn that history as well as world history.
WORLD as in WORLD .
And btw......... she .came to the UK at 8..............no English.One of 6 kids of hardworking non English speaking parents .All have degrees.She has 2 and is bi lingual .So poverty,relocation ,alien culture and language did not hold her back and thats because of the family structure and strong history and culture..which stands alone on merit.Let me say that is pretty typical and our statistics bear it out. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 5/25/2008 10:22:09 AM |
Well my question is this. Why can't black history, not even that but a class that talks about the history of other races that were relevant to the country built be added to the curriculum?
Now that makes much more sense than the current proposal.
And it prevents modern day "tribalism" and is truly open to all.
Saves the taxpayers alot of coin as another plus.
There are a lot of discriminations in secondary school
that turn black students the wrong way that most people are not aware of.
If you are concerned about taxpayers' coins, lobby the governments concerning wasteful spending for the last twenty years. Did you see those expensive status all over the city - "Caribou Statues" - tell me someone wasn't handing a friend a contract.
Support what helps others and stop thinking, "what's in it for me?".
Insisting on being bitter benefits no one. | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/25/2008 10:38:35 AM |
The issue here really and truly is about curriculum and the overall school experience for non-white teenagers (this school is a secondary school - there are no black-focused elementary schools so far). If our outdated, Eurocentric curriculum was updated to include minority leaders, literature, politicans, historians, etc etc then perhaps black students would not feel they have to turn to something as pitiful as a black-focused school in order to succeed and graduate.
I was kinda hearing you until you said "bitter". That is destructive and we need constructive. True? | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/25/2008 11:05:25 AM |
He then, in his language, started talking and everyone just listened. It took a long time.
He then did do the project. His uncle had some pictures of his brother, (the father of my student) , not many of his immediate family, but he did his project and he spoke about his life before the massacre. The students were in awe of him... I was too... Such wisdom... Such strength of character...
Anyway... He could easily have gone the other way...
He is now a mechanical engineer and he has a bright career ahead of him.
That was a moving and story and the out come is satisfactory, but not excellent.
As you stated, I don't think he could have easily gone the other way.
Most eastern blacks don't appear to be embedded with racism. Most that I met don't even know about it. Ignorance is bliss.
Don't think he could have easily have gone the other way when his father's brother, his uncle, is upholding the family. His uncle came to the school, explained the boys trauma, and allowed him to express his pain, without trivializing it: the very thing children need.
On the other hand had he been brought up in a society of discrimination, such as Toronto's public schools, he would be making his decisions, not based on his uncles guidance, but upon the unspoken destructive life experiences surrounding him. His pants would likely hang, he would likely try to be whatever keeps him from being made fun of (cool).
Eventually being cool includes being rebellious, making sure you never have a decent grade and reporting how girls you've been with (even if you have to lie). Most blacks are expected to be "cool". And if you're not aware of it - stay blissed and blessed , you'll make it far without going the other "way".
Our country and community breeds it's culture.
I've heard kids say:
"I'm black, I'm not supposed to konw how to read"
Trust me. Eastern blacks don't say these things no matter what hardships they go through. They see the west as a chance to escape a damage contanent.
This is what an African lady told me, and she did not have mental restictions about completing an education, neither was she aware of racism. Freeing, n'est pas?
That's an experience most blacks, would like to have. A mind not embedded with awareness of discriminations. I love basket ball and Track, but was only comfortable admiting to recent immigrant how much I love math, science and computers. Come on what kind community supports that messed up way of thinking. Hurray for the East | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/25/2008 11:27:41 AM | These board fun, but you make them funny.
I hope you don't want a white power rally for real. I do see you point with this rebuttle:
Is there any reason why people think this is somehow not racist when as a white person I cannot have my own white focussed school, nor can I have a white power rally, however if I was black I could run black power rallies. This is somehow not prejudiced in any way? Why should we have this school when the last election was about faith based schools, I know its a different issue, but the conservatives lost because of it. So faith based schools are wrong? but race-based schools are ok? This is getting way too out of hand, first every employer now has these questions at the end of each job application
1. are you a member of a visible minority ? - Racist, 2 exact same resumes one with the box checked guess who gets hired?
2. are you an aboriginal - racist for the same reason
3. Are you disabled - not racist, but it is prejudiced for basically the same reasons
The NEED for special treatment shows the effect of mistreatment.
I've clicked on those boxes hoping to get in on my race and it "still don't work".
I realized that it is not racism that kept black, disabled, or women out of many opportunities; it's culturism (all these isms?). People want to work among speople who laugh at the jokes (even the degrading ones), who can appreciate a good "ole" slack remark about the "other gender", and never have the constant presence of native Americans/Canadians working in the oil company that fences around their natural fising quarters. So you see we all have our reasons and issues. It just comes down to who will prevail: "Mr Justice" or "Dr. I-Me-My"?
That's all I'm bored  | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/25/2008 2:12:18 PM |
The issue here really and truly is about curriculum and the overall school experience for non-white teenagers
Ummmm the experience since the school is identical. The only variable is the perception of the experience. So if the same experience works for everyone BUT "urban black youth in Toronto" wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the problem lies in the perceptions that group has rather than in the school?
More could be done by the community itself by holding up successful educated members from its' own ranks as role models. People to aspire to emulate if you will. Get a degree drive a nice new Jag to fancy restaurants and so on. It just seems that this solution is short sighted and still doesn't address why this problem cannot be address in the same way every other single special interest group has done it. Which has been with private schools, even though the students still seem to do well in regular public schools aswell. | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/26/2008 12:01:42 PM |
Really, can you give some examples of how racism has negatively impacted your career, your ability to buy a home, your access to education? I can!in my 1st year of HS a group of students and I got into an argument. A brief fight broke out,1 of the students was a little "reddish" salightly swollen eye. I was the ONLY student reprimanded for the incidenta and clearly I was attacked by a GROUP. Later, i made fun of 1 of the fellow students while in gym class(laughed at his tiny wee wee) I was threatened with expulsion dispite the fact that racial slurs were used by the other student. I left the catholic school and attended another miles away from my home. That next year I took an SAT test and did phenomenally well. Instead of praise, 1 of my teachers who doubled as a counselor questioned whether I cheated in front of other students. Her "grounds" ; that I was in only in the top 30% of my own class in GPA yet scored in the top 5% of all classes(Soph,Jr,Sr.) in SAT scores. Was her problem "racial" in all of my dealings with her it was obvious that this was likely the case. Furhtermore, I NEVER recieved advise nor recommendations from my counselors as to what schools I should attend after HS....NONE! I scored 1470 on my SAT and recieved no advice on schools while others grew tired of the advice they were being given. Yes, I attended a catholic school in which 95% of the students were of European American descent. My father never attended college, my mother attended a HBC after having 6 children while my father served in the milatary. My choices of schools was limited due to the fact that i had no councelors doing their job as it related to me.
My ability to buy a home was affected even more recently in Indianapolis, IN in 1991. I went to purchase a home offered by HUD in a neighborhood called Ravenswood. I purchased the home on a great deal,it was my 2nd foray into buying and selling homes. I sold the home within 3 months. i suppose the nighbors thought I was just a contractor because they never said anything to me and "bad looks" mean nothing to me so I thought nothing of it. However, 3 weeks after selling the home the single woman I sold the home to called me because her son was threatened and she had a cross burnt in her yard. I then went to her home to see just what was going on, only to find fools driving by yelling racial slurs(of course I replied). I personally challenged them only to find a few hrs later 3 idiots walking down the street in front of the house with rifles. Cowards will never settle an issue with disscussion let alone bare hands but it was 1 of the most tense situations I've personally witnessed. Police were called and it recieved attention on the news.Redlining is illegal in the USA now(it wasnt when my father was seeking homes and he was turned away from many homes even though he served his country well) but who wants to live in a neighborhood in which there is so much obvious hate?????....and PAY for it I only mde $15k on the deal but I felt like buying the home back. She did decide to sell her home and move.
I have more experiences of racism. Just because they arent discussed alot doesnt mean they never occur. Dwelling on them simply gives the racist idiots some power they lack. Racist are ignorant, and extremely insecure due to their own negativity. There are all kinds of racist and racism....overt and covert.
This right here is why I believe supporters of this idea are well intentioned but misguided fools. ALL students should learn about MLK in any American history course or a history course covering the period in which he lived. ALL students should learn about as many cultures as possible to be able to have some common ground and be more inclined to understand varied peoples of the globe or at the very least be more tolerant of things they may not agree with. That right there is where you miss the point and where obvious bias and ignorance on the topic lies. This is NOT about MLK. In fact, the quote that you responded to simply used MLK as an example. This is NOT about including any token or a few African Americans into a curriculum. Its about a curriculum that is Eurocentric in which ALL students lose, however, those who do not know their OWN often also fail to uderstand or see their own self worth in the void. This is particularly true in a system that expects little of them. Moreover, if there was a problem and there has been with females doing well in science or math,proposing a school oriented towards the needs of girls would be in order and acceptable(its occured without fanfare). This is about meeting the needs of students in lue of a system that fails so many. If something can be done, I've yet to see a LOGICAL argument for not trying SOMETHING that has proven to work. After all, the success of children will benefit ANY nation. In this, what are the cons???? none outside of the protesting opinions of a few misguided induviduals who offer no solutions...just protesting opinions based upon illogic and ignorance.
I ran a private school that had a focus on CHRISTIAN education. Most of the students were African American,Latino or Native American. I changed the curriculum to fit my students cultural needs. In a nation in which they were the cultural minority and underrepresented when not misrepresented in the media and in other areas, I felt it Imperative to do what any VALUABLE educational system must...STRENGTHEN THEM. I felt it imperative to make sure they had food to strengthen their bodies, spiritual food to strengthen their spirits; cultural food to strengthen their communities and sense of self and well being ...beginning with knowledge of self; academic food to strengthen their minds and foster tools to lift up their nation. Some may call this a "focus" school. I suppose in a sense it is.....focus on doing something to help children have the tools to BEST help themselves once they become adults. Others may use the term specialty school...it is......the specialty is on allowing children to see how special they are.
As I see it, the educational system being caught up in ignorances many adults carry had to compomise from instituting a better more comprehensve multi culltural or TRUE curriculum throughout the educational system and instead have a "focus school".Shame that there is still a need, but there is. I applaude them for trying to do SOMETHING positive
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/26/2008 12:16:29 PM | I moved to Toronto last year and used to live here and I have a few disquieting observations.
Jamaican women dont know how to parent. They use a mixture of beratement, ignoring their kids and going from man to man as parenting skills. Jamaican men sleep with as many women as possible and leave half of them pregnant, only to wander off to find some other gal to sleep with. Jamaican kids effectively get no parenting. I travelled to Jamaica in the 80s and saw all kinds of examples of this sloppy parenting. It was the first time I ever saw a man strike a woman. Jamaican men just haul off and punch their wives in the stomach or the head when she argues. Then they head out for another night of screwing ar0und.
Jamaican nurses, who populate the seniors wards of local hospitals are slow, and downright impolite. They have a reputation among health care providers as lazy, rude and incompetent. This is probably why the only safe place to put a Jamaican nurse is supervising seniors, who dont require care beyond bed pan changes and washing.
Opening an all black school will be a step in the right direction. These poor kids have no mother, they have a scolding woman who doesnt care if they live or die. Jamaican culture gives rise to numerous gangs in Toronto, the 5 point generals, the crips, the bloods, all populated by natty dreadlock boys with handguns. They gun down their own community members in the streets here, there are parts of Toronto you dare not go lest a Jamaican youth take an interest in you and shoot you dead.
Jamaica is a poor, ignorant country full of homophobia, racism against whites and run by crime syndicates. These poor kids in Toronto are being groomed to be the next generation of gangsters.
And of course, all the young rich white girls love them, cause they are bad boys. Then you get a single white girl with a kid and no father. Hes off chasing more white girls.
This school couldnt arrive sooner. Its the one chance these kids have to progress in life, cause god kn0ws, their fathers are just breeders and they dont have a mother. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 5/26/2008 12:20:57 PM | not too sure,but most of our schools are either predominately white,or black and some exceptions.not wanting to piss any one or group off,but,english is the main language,and being taught to understand correct english is bringing cultures into the main stream.unfortunately,and this pains me,it has taken blacks longer to assimilate, into this melting pot.much of it has to do with our history,and we have to find a way to get past that.words alone cannot fix this,the federal gov needs to start with an apology,make even a token payment to the descendants of slavery,by token,i mean at least as much as that rebate check, non taxable,over a period of time.would go a long way towards making things right,and certainly will help the economy and show the buying power they actually have as a whole.next step,race relations for all.you would not believe the difference it made in the army during my tour,it was both fun,and made us realize we come from the same stuff.last,we have to speak the same language,period,it makes it easier to correctly interpret each other,i wonder how many fights have broke out over a simple misunderstanding of a sentence?in other words,one thing may mean something else to another!  | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 5/26/2008 12:53:09 PM |
Falsely building up the degree of contribution of blacks in the development of this country would be just as shameful as completely dismissing it. Falsely building up the degree of contribution is to negate the struggles of the black community and refute the efforts of those that built the community to a contributory level. By embellishing or overstating the history of Black America we are doing a disservice to the Black community.
Perhaps, if you knew or learned of the contributions of people of the African diaspora to the Americas and/or the contributions of people of African descent in North America as well as to the world, your opinion would have some merit. However, you obviously do not and thusly your opinion doesnt.
What about the wave of European immigrants that came here with pennies to their name and no English skills? Now there s a success story and you don't here them whining 60 years later. They assimilated, learned the language and became contributing members of the society. And before you start...... Many of those people felt prejudice and racism. Again ignorance abounds .... 1) the waves of europeans with only pennie stopped over 100 years ago. Did many complain about the conditions and treatment they recieved???YES! Did the treatment continue for decades even centuries???NO! They assimilated because they were allowed to do so. This was NOT an experience afforded people of African descent. They have success stories and that is wonderful......so do millions of African Americans. You state that they faced "racism'....you obviously do not know what racism is or your view is too bent on slanting the truth that your statements are lacking it.
Again, this thread isnt about anything other than a school system and community which wishesor is contimplating ways to meet the needs of a sizable amount of students who are not doing well with what they have. Its not about whinning...its about winning. Simple fact missed by 'opposition posters" when children succeed we all win whether ou recognize it or not. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 5/26/2008 4:40:15 PM | "1) the waves of europeans with only pennie stopped over 100 years ago. Did many complain about the conditions and treatment they recieved???YES! Did the treatment continue for decades even centuries???NO!"
centuries ? no, decades? more likely, When the german people came over here a lot of them had no money, no education, couldn't even speak the language, not to mention they were called every disrespectful name in the book. e.g. "evil nazi ****" use your imaginations I"m sure you can think up a few. Not to mention their houses were vandalized, every where they went they were accosted by various other people.
So....YES.....YES!!!!!!! the treatment didn't stop, How about the jewish people? technically they're still treated like that today, depending on where you go. So again I say...YES.....YES!!! they are still treated poorly.
On the same topic, the british had quite a few colonies in africa full of black and muslim slaves, by now most of them have left, leaving the former muslim slaves who are now business owners / land owners and such. Guess what happened next? the muslims took over as slave owners, and have all the black people still as slaves. Slavery is everywhere, so is racial killing, etc, stop ****ing that the USA was built on slave trade, who cares, tons of places were built on terrible things.
The US was built on the slave trade....wow....Canada was purchased from the indians for next to nothing, now all indians live on reservations and say we stole their land.
Africa was built on the slave trade to america....
Egypt has pyrmids built by slaves.....
Rome was built by slaves....
I don't hear people ****ing that these other places made money this way.
I don't hear people ****ing places like afganistan make their money harvesting poppies to make opium
The point is people make money sleezy and other terrible ways, you're not going to change it, and if it stops here then it will be repeated later by someone else or in another place by someone else... | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 5/26/2008 5:14:26 PM | marathonman and claw, I have to point out that your views, while possibly valid for YOU, do not apply HERE. We are NOT a meltingpot we are a MOSAIC, immigrants can keep their heritage. The thought being that in diverse people working to a common goal there is greater strength. Your experiences are of a country that indulged in slavery. So in your experience maybe a school like this is needed, but here in Canada where it is going on it is not needed as the disadvantages you speak of are not the same here. The biggest disadvantage here for a kid of African decent is not racism as much as it is the belief they will be held back due to racism so they aren't as likely to apply themselves. Apathy based on pop-culture images, and misconceptions.
Jamaican women dont know how to parent. They use a mixture of beratement, ignoring their kids and going from man to man as parenting skills. Jamaican men sleep with as many women as possible and leave half of them pregnant, only to wander off to find some other gal to sleep with. Jamaican kids effectively get no parenting. I travelled to Jamaica in the 80s and saw all kinds of examples of this sloppy parenting. It was the first time I ever saw a man strike a woman. Jamaican men just haul off and punch their wives in the stomach or the head when she argues. Then they head out for another night of screwing ar0und.
Did i miss the memo and we slipped back to the 1920's?
I've personally known a few Jamaican families that were very close knit. And their many children have become productive upstanding members of society. So I must call you on that "observation".
Now, if you substitute "poor/uneducated", for every reference to Jamaica or Jamaicans then you might be onto something. But that would invalidate the need for a "Black-focus" school with only black teachers etc... and instead call for an anti-poverty and education campaign.
Taking a child to the fountain of knowledge is much like leading a horse to water. All you can do is get him there, but you can't make him drink. | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 5/26/2008 6:52:30 PM | well canada,you are so great at giving advise to the us,i assumed you could benifit from our expertise in that area.leave it to the canadians to segregate some of their citizens,and accuse us of losing our rights.if you don't want them,admit it,just say it,its ok,we won't judge.the rest of the world has done away with apartied,alone comes good ol stay out of it canada,to bring it back.well i never?deal with that toonz.  | |
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| Black-focused (Afro-Centric) schools
Posted: 5/26/2008 7:27:36 PM |
well canada,you are so great at giving advise to the us,i assumed you could benifit from our expertise in that area.leave it to the canadians to segregate some of their citizens,and accuse us of losing our rights.if you don't want them,admit it,just say it,its ok,we won't judge.the rest of the world has done away with apartied,alone comes good ol stay out of it canada,to bring it back.well i never?deal with that toonz
Don't be such a crusty fool. I merely stated the reason that your views supporting this might be valid where you have a history of segregation and racial strife we do not. Canada did NOT request a "black-focused" school, a small black community ASKED to be "segregated". You really should learn to read before attacking everyone that has a different view.
Not even going to touch the spelling or logical errors further. I'll just have to await marathonmans return for some intelligent debate when he has a chance to consider this from a MOSAIC cultural view as opposed to from a MELTING-POT, and having no African slave history here. | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/26/2008 8:07:45 PM | | Well Im from the US and what I gather is all white kids are being taught is black history bec they damn sure dont know there own anymore ..they try and dress/look/act like em ,so seems to me there needs to be a white awareness day to shake em back into reallity ,lol seriously though I think that black kids are being tsaught that they invented everything and buoilt america and everything good is Black and everything bad is white ..truth is theres great accomplisments on both parts but the majority here in amercai are white and even me being white doesnt gurantee me a good job bec of that fact so the kids who are taught all this bunk in the inner cities see that when they get out of school and see the reality and wonder well if my people did all this and were so great why am I /we so poor and cant get jobs..its a buid up and let down that our Liberal friends that control the media schools and everything else have lied for so long about and its taking a toll on all our kids black and white bec of it ..I do know this ..Blacks werent near as violent and un caring and predjudiced whe ni went to school as they are now ..its not progess but degress in my opinion..why cant people stop trying to right wrongs and co0me together in a logical unbiased way ..what does this do to out white kids who have all this guilt to carry around for something they had nothing to do with and as a matter of fact since there was only 14 percent of the slave trade in america whats all the beef about anyway ..the other 84 percent was spaniards..have you called a puerto Rican a rasict lately or anyone from Spain? no I dont think so bec they wouldnt care or put up with it ..white people are too gullable and appologettic..there has been white slavery as well and Black people doing it in africa long before the white man came here ..slavery has been worl wide and has always been ..theres stil slaves in Africa now by their own people so get over this shit and everybody fess up to being an individual and ACCOUNTABLE for their own selves and stop the maddness and the political correctness..its tearing our country and people further apart | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 5/26/2008 8:22:35 PM | | I don't think it is meant to be racist, it is meant to cater to the needs of black people that want to learn not just about whites or native americans but, about themselves. I remember when i heard some black people wanted to make ebonix into a langauge, why not? I don't mind if people have differnt cultures they prefer to identify with besides the T.V, and media. All people have things to be proud of and when the are it "should" make them have more resect for themselves and others. I'm caucasin and proud yet, not to be a domineering ass just to see i have potentials like some of my ancestors had. I think it's closed minded to say that people shouldn't be able to know moer about there own ancestors. | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/26/2008 8:26:09 PM | quote]marathonman and claw, I have to point out that your views, while possibly valid for YOU, do not apply HERE. We are NOT a meltingpot we are a MOSAIC, immigrants can keep their heritage. The thought being that in diverse people working to a common goal there is greater strength. Your experiences are of a country that indulged in slavery. So in your experience maybe a school like this is needed, but here in Canada where it is going on it is not needed as the disadvantages you speak of are not the same here. The biggest disadvantage here for a kid of African decent is not racism as much as it is the belief they will be held back due to racism so they aren't as likely to apply themselves. Apathy based on pop-culture images, and misconceptions.The USA is NOT a melting pot besides its just a cliche that has carried over. Here in the USA immigrants HAVE kept their heritage with exeption of those who were forcibly stripped. Yes, the USA indulged in slavery and it is a negative part of the history and tapestry of the USA. However, this is NOT about slavery. Slavery(physical) in the USA ended about 140years ago. Slavery did not do nearly as much to impede the progress of people as American aparthied and hatred in conjunction with institutionalized racism. The reason a school as such is needed is due to not just racism but a system, any system that prepectuates a negative image of a group of people whether intentional or not. This, no matter how real to YOU and others is real to those who feel that way. To say that the kids feel that there is racism in Canada more so than experience it seems to be a benighted and callow view.
disadvantages you speak of are not the same here I've not only visited TO on many occasions for Caribana but also to visit my many friends there. Most of those friends are of the African diaspora whether Carribean, South American or African,all are degreed professionals. All give interesting accounts of life in Canada which along with my own experiences in Canada leads me to believe that there are many similarities. Certainly more than enough similarities to give this school a try.
centuries ? no, decades? more likely, When the german people came over here a lot of them had no money, no education, couldn't even speak the language, not to mention they were called every disrespectful name in the book. e.g. "evil nazi ****" use your imaginations I"m sure you can think up a few. Not to mention their houses were vandalized, every where they went they were accosted by various other people.
Please know something of the topic in which you post. When most Germans came to the USA they found German American organiztions abounded. There were programs geared to help them assimilate into US fabric and still mantian their cultural identity. There were no "nazis) in the USA until postwar immigration. During the postwar immigration the many if not most of the Germans were of Jewish background. the backlash of nazism was a blimp in he USA . The bigger issue was Italian immigrants. You see, the USA had a Grant styled view of race that benefited the German immigrant more so than the often poor Italian immigrant. Italians found themselves more victimized by US brand of racialist views than Germans who were encouraged to come(with the exception of the time just before war broke out in Europe and during). This view of widespread German persecution"homes vandalized, accosted everywhere they went" is simply your own fabrication. Heck the USA spent tons of money helping to rebuid Germany. Now, since you live in Ottowa perhaps you're refering to the tgreatment Germans recieve in Canada. That too I doubt.
Taking a child to the fountain of knowledge is much like leading a horse to water. All you can do is get him there, but you can't make him drink. Its great and obvious that you are not in the he field of education. that mentality would NEVER work. EvERY educational system and every good teacher has used varying modalities to most effeciently meet the needs of induvidual and collective students. The discussion on this thread is essentially about a modality that hasnt been used in TO but has been successful elsewhere. Again, why not?
Please, lets stay on topic....is there a GOOD and LOGICAL reason not to try this type of school? | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/27/2008 3:04:33 AM |
Its great and obvious that you are not in the he field of education. that mentality would NEVER work. EvERY educational system and every good teacher has used varying modalities to most effeciently meet the needs of induvidual and collective students. The discussion on this thread is essentially about a modality that hasnt been used in TO but has been successful elsewhere. Again, why not?
Because the different "modality" you speak of includes limiting the teachers to "blacks only where possible". Not that different from separate drinking fountains etc and does nothing to encourage being a part of a society but instead a part of a small group first and foremost based solely on colour of ones skin not even a Caribbean heritage, or Rwandan, South African or Australian aboriginal. And again if the Germans or Polish communities want such a culturally based school they set it up themsleves. Which is more realistic as a Canadian tax payer does not owe a Caribbean student history lessons on the Caribbean any more than he/she would owe a Portuguese student history lessons on Portugal.
A good and logical reason not to.... How about a comparison of recent Morehouse grad's performance compared to graduates from schools that don't focus on race who happen to be of African heritage. I sincerely doubt that an MIT, Yale, Harvard, Columbia or even state schools produces fewer successful graduates because they don't bother to focus on race. If they are under represented in any of those institutions it has nothing to do with the curriculum and everything to do with the community itself not supporting education as a laudable goal. | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/27/2008 8:22:03 AM |
Because the different "modality" you speak of includes limiting the teachers to "blacks only where possible". Again you are simply WRONG. At times its dificult to teach some teens due to barriers they may have within themselves. Its the hope and desire of every good teacher to breakthrough any such barrier. Its worse however when facing the same issue with an adult.  There have been SEVERAL quotes from the article as well as the fact that MANY posters including myself have expounded on the FACT that dispite the part of the thread's title,this thread is NOT about an ethnic exclusive school. Therefore your statement "includes limiting the teachers to "blacks only where possible" is not only false but foolish. Rather than go back and rehash an argument already debated and made apparent....I simply suggest you reread. It is 1 thing to continue a debate when new points or old points are elaborated upon however, when something is made clear and still the same 'arguments" already debuked are tried, it becomes a matter of arguing simply to argue. My post here were to bring light where there was a void of understanding and perspective. I've achieved this.Comprehension is on you. | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/27/2008 8:36:08 AM |
A good and logical reason not to.... How about a comparison of recent Morehouse grad's performance compared to graduates from schools that don't focus on race who happen to be of African heritage. I sincerely doubt that an MIT, Yale, Harvard, Columbia or even state schools produces fewer successful graduates because they don't bother to focus on race. Let me educate you further since you seem to require that I break everything down to the most elementary level. All statisitics show that Moorehouse has a MUCH higher graduation rate of African Americans than ANY of the forementioned schools. HBCs in general also have much higher rates of graduates recieving post graduate degrees. Often those post graduate degrees are garnered at non HBC schools such as Harvard, Yale, Columbia and more expressly state schools due to much lower tuition rates. Again, ALL evidence leads the LOGICAL reasonable person to at least strongly consider such a school given the demographics and statistics. As to funding, it cost more NOT to open such a school given the factors mentioned. | |
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| Black-focused (not black-only) schools
Posted: 5/27/2008 8:58:02 AM |
Please know something of the topic in which you post. When most Germans came to the USA they found German American organiztions abounded. There were programs geared to help them assimilate into US fabric and still mantian their cultural identity. There were no "nazis) in the USA until postwar immigration. During the postwar immigration the many if not most of the Germans were of Jewish background. the backlash of nazism was a blimp in he USA . The bigger issue was Italian immigrant
When the Germans first came to America -there were no German American organisations which was exactly the same as when the Africans first came . If they came after the war in 1940's-yes there may have been German A. organisations but if any Africians came-there would have been AA organisations
What it always overlooked is that in Toronto there are Arabs and Chinese and Indians and Italians and Greeks and Anglos as they call us...lol...... but its only the blacks having huge problems of "racism " to cause them to commit murder by the week therefore prompting a call for black only schools.
There are two causes only ; family disfunction and a weak black history that does not hold up on its own.
I remember people being questioned on Toronto streets and most of the non black people tended to say- let them have it and make them sign to say that they won't be coming back . In a way they seemed to think it may cause less disruptions in the normal schools if the blacks went to their own schools.Food for thought . | |
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