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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/13/2008 2:09:50 AM | troublemaker, you imply labeling americans is not a bigoted statement because Americans are not a race, the what do you call people who are dead set against homosexuality. Homosexuals are not a race, its a lifestyle.
Scretluvr, you sat discrimination based on race is illegal. Thats not true. If a business has not met its minority quota, a person can be refused a job just because he is white. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/14/2008 6:57:31 AM |
i dont think it teaches anyone to hate anyone
but merely instills separatism and alienation if YOU BELIEVE THIS, YOU THEN BELIEVE THAT ALL GIRL OR ALL BOY SCHOOLS "INSTILL SEPARATISM AND ALIENATION" MORE SO THAN COED SCHOOLS?
Canada is multicultural however 97% of those cultures are European! There are VAST numbers of schools in Canada in which 97- 100% of the students are of European descent. Do they all instill separatism and alienation ? It would seem that by YOUR "logic" they do.
our resources should b put towards educating all people equally, not some individual group or class of people who may or may not think they have superiority over another, As I stated in my earlier post...this HAS NOT BEEN DONE. The educational system in many if not most if not all Canadian schools is EUROCENTRIC.
Canada is multicultural , period ,anyone truly interested in learning more about a certain culture has ample means to do so by visiting a library or surfing the internet, these forms of education should be voluntary not paid for by joe taxpayer or supported by the right wing separatistsic idealists Canada is multi cultural...however the educational system or rather the curriculum used is NOT. Perhaps the left wing separatist or idealist are LESS interested in Canada and its well being than their own narrow,logic deficient political views. IF an effort to educate CHILDREN CAN be more productive and more efficient why not try it rather than whine about the possibility of change.....pocketbook change rather than positive change? Are there Native focus schools? YES Is there a need for more and at that more efficient ones? YES! As a world citizen I'm more interested in the most efficient and productive means of educating children rather than POLITICS .
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/14/2008 7:02:07 AM | | to be honest i dont give a damn if there is a all black school or not, as long as the kids are getting educated, that is the point of school right? we need to leave the socail crap at the door and focus on the kids learning, just my opinion | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/14/2008 7:12:20 AM |
Yes, the US is full of racism. We speak our minds, thats how the world knows about it. Not exactly...the world knows about racsim in the USA NOT simply because "minds" or more appropriately the mindLESS speak but rather due to the fact of the OBVIOUS.Its the history and present day OCCURANCES. In the USA no longer are the ultra ignorant racist in vogue but rather those who are but try to find covert means of expressing it. the fact is that racism will exist as long as the tools for its INSTITUTION continue. Unfortunately the educational system by and large is part of that institution in most cases. Is overt racism as rampant in Canada as in the USA? No.
Having said that,I'll say EDUCATE as to the foolishness and falacies inherent with the concpt of race in a factual manner and racism will eventually erode like the thought of the world being a flat plain in whioh ships wouled fall off at a point. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/14/2008 8:39:19 AM |
Canada is multi cultural.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060505/food_fight_060505/20060505?hub=TopStories
Montreal school officials are being decried as racist and intolerant after allegedly punishing a Filipino-Canadian boy for eating his lunch with a fork and spoon rather than a knife and fork.
The story first made headlines in Canada last month, but in recent days it has garnered renewed attention globally, even sparking pro-knife-and-spoon protests in the Philippines.
The boy, seven-year-old Luc Cagadoc, was allegedly reprimanded and made to eat at a table by himself after a lunch monitor at his elementary school on Montreal's West Island noticed his table etiquette.
His mother, Maria Theresa Gallardo, claims her son had been reprimanded on numerous prior occasions for his culinary habits, which she said are typical to their country.
I dont think Canada is really as multi cultured as claimed. I think its all pretend and racism is covered up. Racism is only pointed out so hard here on these forums as an attempt to make the USA look worse so Canada dont look so bad. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/15/2008 8:09:35 AM |
I'll say EDUCATE as to the foolishness and falacies inherent with the concpt of race in a factual manner actually science supports genetic variation(race) the problem lies in peoples interpretation and understanding of genetic differences.Its comes down to semantics,is variation race, is race variation? | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/15/2008 10:54:36 PM | When I first heard about the afrocentric schools my knee-jerk reaction was to agree with trubblemakr. That this would just foster segregation, separatism and alienation. However, I have read many articles and have listened to both sides of the argument and now I'm not so sure. We do have all kinds of specialized schools in Canada that focus on different needs so an argument against an afrocentric school seems disingenous unless you close all those schools and just have one centralized public school system. I wonder why no one seems to have a problem with schools based on religion when religion has historically fostered more hate, separatism, alienation, bigotry, violence and persecution than culture ever could.
And to all those that compared this idea to opening up an all-white school, give me a break. The whole point is that most schools are geared to whites and those of european descent and this culture has no special needs to focus on. Our entire society is built around and focused on them. If a white person does not get a job or an opportunity because he/she is white its not discrimination. I am so sick and tired of hearing this whining and ridiculous argument. It only means that a minority got the job or equal opportunity that they should have received if discrimination did not exist.
I think its sad that we have had to pass equal opportunity laws in this country to legislate people act like decent human beings and not discriminate against minorities. Minority quotas do not discriminate against whites. They are put in place to ensure that minorities get a fair shake when applying for a job and get equal pay. Historically, if 50 people applied for a middle or upper management job and common sense would dictate that they couldn't all possibly be white since we have such a diverse society then why were practically all these jobs held by white men? And why were all the grunt and low-income jobs held by minorities? Part of that reason was because of discrimination and the other part was because of lack of education. Which is where all the specialty groups come in. Giving minorities opportunities for equal education that they wouldn't normally have. Taking that as a personal affront against white society is ridiculous. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/16/2008 4:05:49 PM | | The laws are already in place to prevent discrimination based on race. Its funny to me how so many lump all Whites together when it comes to getting good higher paying jobs..there are far more whites who are denied acces to these jobs based on their lack of education etc..then there are blacks who are discrimnated against...try being a "White" male small business owner and trying to even get a chance to bid on any government contract...if you are not an MBE,WBE, or any other " disadvantaged business" you can't even get access. Minority businesses also have better access to Governement and financial aid,and have much greater corporate access. Black only schools only serve to further divide along racial lines. The presumption for the need for such schools is that Whites and the System are inherently racist, that is a great message to be sending to impressionable children.... | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/16/2008 4:53:37 PM | Thank you wildcat...you got it sister!
The presumption for the need for such schools is that Whites and the System are inherently racist, that is a great message to be sending to impressionable children....
Or perhaps, the presumption is simply that something different must be done to address the problem of a 40% drop out rate among black students. Having this alternative school will send the message to these kids that they are a priority! | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/16/2008 5:51:35 PM | With that in mind, what message does that send to the other non- Black students?
"Color" it however you want but the issue is that many Blacks operate under the assumption that Whites and the System are racist, therefore that is why they do not succeed..I don't have a problem with alternative schools.What I have a problem with is the rationalizations that lead to the alleged need. Racism,Insitutional Racism, White apathy,manipulation of historical data, ethnocentric beliefs, inherent blaming of present day Whites for historical mistreatment, the whole concept of black cultural identity is to complex, what identity? American history, African-American or ties to Africa? If so which countries ,which tribes, which cultures?...most American Blacks have no real idea of what Africa is, the scope and diversity among the shades of brown and black.....
how will these schools be funded? will the money come from the taxes generated by the areas populated predominately by African-Americans or will the taxes come from every where? | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/16/2008 6:53:14 PM |
With that in mind, what message does that send to the other non- Black students?
That the Toronto School Board actually cares about it's students and want them ALL to do well. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/16/2008 6:57:11 PM | Wow! What a hot topic!
I'm an educator and I can understand the perspective; I don't know enough about it to comment more than this:
I do believe in meeting the needs of students. In this case, I'd go for the win/win. I would think that schools could look at providing a wide range of cultural learning opportunities that could include a focus on black history and culture, black authors, black leaders, scientists, etc. Black history and culture is rich in everything it has to offer. I'm as caucasian as white can be and 3 of my 4 heros are African and African-American.
The more children are given the opportunities and exposed to cultural diversity and learning, the more peaceful our world will become. Everyone would benefit. We definitely could use a little more peace going on here. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/16/2008 7:03:13 PM | Forumator: One problem is that one doesn't need to go back to slavery days to find evidence of an entire group being disadvantaged the day they are born. The 70's were still very problematic for many and only being one generation distant from that disadvantage does make a difference. It takes a minimum of 4 generations for any real change to happen. In order to show that their group as a whole does not have a disadvantage from the day they are born based on color alone, one has to show an equal number are succeeding. Those who succeed tend to have parents who succeed. Now, if one's ancestry is full of parents and grandparents who had race in their way, then yes, the children have that extra step to fight against to make it different. It takes taking one and getting them through the education and into a good job for rest of their offspring to be ok, but until you get that one through the change, the future generations have less of a chance for being successful.
You may have not have created the situation as an individual, but the situation exists nonetheless, and to tell the future generations of that group tough luck is not making any sort of forward movement away from the way things were in the past. If there had not been massive protesting and special interest groups pushing for minority rights, do you really think anyone would have bothered? No. They would have said, "Well, everyone seems ok, so who cares?" It is because this situation got to this point and got so bad that the changes to force things to straighten out can be uncomfortable. We can't do the gradual shift any more. It was ignored too long.
Yes, there are whites that are poor and unsuccessful too, but it's not because of their skin color that they end up that way. It may be strictly economic, which no group is immune to, or it may be due to bad parenting, or a genetic defect, or whatever it may be, but it's not because of their skin color. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/17/2008 3:34:19 AM | | Its strange. In the 50's and 60's, black people wanted the same education the whites were getting. The claim was the whites were getting a better education and gave them an advantage.Now they are getting it, but now the claim is its not meeting their needs, so they want to go back to the old ways. In both cases, their problems are blamed on the white people. I am for black cultured schools, if it will help. all kids deserve the right to the best education possible. I just hope it will not be financed by the tax payers unless taxpayers finance all types of cultured schools. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/17/2008 9:21:22 AM | This is simply a stupid idea and it has absolutely NO place in Canada. Segregated schools (which is exactly what this is no matter how much perfume we spray on the turd) have no place in a country that is supposed to be providing everybody with an equal education. Hell, this is a perfect example of why multi-culturalism as government policy is stupid. I keep saying the same thing : sooner or later , if you provide people with everything they need to NOT be a Canadian, they won't consider themselves to be Canadian. Little islands of nationalities everywhere instead of one , more or less unified nation.
How about Chinese-only buses ? Maybe some Russian-only libraries ? Indian-only water supply systems ?
Yeah, that sounds stupid. So does a 'black-only' school in Toronto. Whatever arguments you want to use to support such a school will certainly apply anywhere else government money is spent.
Then again, this is Canada and when it comes to social policy, only stupid ideas from radical university professors and their ilk are the kind of ideas we tolerate. No doubt, the academics are all in favour of this school despite what common sense says about it. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:03:24 AM |
Now they are getting it, but now the claim is its not meeting their needs, so they want to go back to the old ways. The problem is that they aren't. Have you ever seen what goes on in an inner-city school? The inner-cities have been left to rot. They aren't receiving any money to help. They were abandoned a long time ago, so obviously it isn't working. It's time for new solutions instead of trying to continue to say the old solution was good enough. What we need are results.
I'm not saying segregated schools are the best way to go, because I don't think they are either, but I do know SOMETHING needs to be done. Money keeps being thrown at schools that are already wealthy and doing fine, and politicians claim they are supporting eduction. Until that money goes to the schools that need it the most, it's utterly worthless as far as making anything change. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/17/2008 10:33:33 AM | What a facinating topic this has turned into. It is one of the rare topics, that I have found my self, slowly changing my opinion on a subject.
Initially, the idea of it quite frankly bothered me, shades of segragation crept into my head. After reading the posts here though, find my self looking at it with a completely new perpective. The ones showing support for the concept have made some very logical points in support of it.
Although the idea goes against my basic beliefs , sends alarm bells quite frankly, I am slowly starting to think I have been wrong in my initial assesment. Am very impressed with the quality of some of the threads, and if not having done a 360 degree turn on the subject, have definately gone 180 degrees.
There are certainly very valid points being made here, and I have to think, if some of those kids do get a degree from it, why not give it a try? Cant see any reason not to at this point. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/17/2008 12:05:49 PM | | I guess I should detail one point about my support. My support goes for the US doing this. I don't know the situation in Canada. I do know the inner city schools in the US, which are predominantly comprised of minorities, is in bad shape. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/17/2008 8:56:15 PM |
Am very impressed with the quality of some of the threads, and if not having done a 360 degree turn on the subject, have definately gone 180 degrees.
I think you mean if not 180, you've definitely gone at least 90.  | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/17/2008 9:49:16 PM | The US and Canada are two different countries and as such there is no comparison between our inner cities and American ones. There is no great difference in funding levels between inner city schools and suburban ones up here. As well, our inner cities, while not utopias, cannot hold a candle to their US cousins when it comes to crime or neglect.
Anyway, I wonder ; how about some Mexican-only schools ? Maybe thousands of them across the US. Better yet, how about some whites-only schools. Whatever rationale is being used to support a black-only school could certainly be used to effect the founding of whites-only facilities. The basic idea with this black-only school is that somehow black students don't learn in mixed classes. Moreover, black students don't learn because they're not interested in the subject matter.
This is nonsense. If what the supporters of this idea say is true then the entire curriculum needs to be examined. Secondly, again if they're right, then we should all only go to schools where we interact with our own ethnic group.
Bullshit. This is a disaster waiting to happen whether it means lower quality of education for black students or the establishment of isolationistic schools across the country. Sooner or later this is going to be proved a bad idea and the only people who are going to end up losing are the black students and anybody who follows the example set by some do-gooder academics with no grasp of common sense. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/18/2008 9:26:02 AM | | Well heres the way I see it, over the last few yrs theres been a lot of shooting going on by gangs in TO. The Bay Street boys don't want there pristine white sons shoot. So support from them will be welcomed by the originators of this project. Eventually they will use this system to segregate whoever they will consider to be a bad black kid, and transfer him to that school. Get them all in one place. This will create chaos and influence the mindless ones to give them the wrong impression of Black Children. If you had a school full of bad white boys its normal but bad black boys is worst. The drop out rate for Black kids is not because they don't know there heritage its because they see no future in a white world, there kids still. We all know that opportunity knocks for everyone in this country. Theres going to be prejudice fools constantly, no matter what race or country your in. Hey I'm Irish Italian, I wonder is there going to open a school for me. I need a little insight too. | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/18/2008 7:50:54 PM | how about some whites-only schools.
well im sure the same people codling the pro separtist ideas would hack up their tongues if this ever got out there and became enacted,
im sure the red,yellow and brown people would march in the streets and have a riot
. people would see this as slavery reborn in society
so how come we non brown people cant way lay this issue before it bocomes one?
if u start a brown school , donw the line somewhere , someone non brown will want to join it , thereby creating a whole heap of legal expense " paid for by the taxpayer" of course
i did also state religious schools werent any different than this stupid idea.
cultural education is pointless in a non cultural specific society. look at the pain in the butt all that pro french crud got us. all packaging needing 2 languages, etc etc th list goes on and on , frankly why raise taxxes when all they need to do is suck up to some minorized group and cover the expenses with taxpayers money so that everyone is made and forced to be aware of cultures these people have never even lived within.
when does the onus fall on the individual to enlighten themselves with educational materials freely provided by the library system and the internet? of what use is 5000 yr old information and if it has any use whatsoever how is it goin to be utilized to make anyones life better?
i went to a regular school, all my cultural information i recall was stuff i read long after leaving the school system
i am not white, im beige ,all this white man crap talk is pointless and a cop out
there is no "white " society and never has been . the regular school system should never even be permitted to go the route of teaching cultural education as it is highly subjective and often biased and full of made up historical fictions.
todays children should not use 5000 yr old excuses to explain away why they cant pass grade 6 math tests
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Are there Native focus schools
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um marathon do u even read what u type or just try to go in a complete circle?
there are native schools on reserves. which are akin to separate countries. as you fully know well
in case u dont realize reality . this country was raped and pillaged and stolen from those people.i think they have a right to manage their own affairs on the pittances of land given to them by us the master race of this continent, dont u?
as far as your concept of 97% european i think u are quie a ways off base there, maybe 60%, there are an awful lot of asian, indian, saudi, mexican, african, and by african i mean actually from africa, not just the brown people than emigrated here from new york.
when this is allowed to start rolling,the next step will be every single minority/ culture wanting the exact same status and education system
and frankly we pay enuf taxxes already and noone but you apparently is interested in shelling out more of our hard earned money to support a second rate educational system that in the end benefits noone but shareholders south of the border | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/18/2008 8:05:05 PM | I know someone who would be rolling over in his grave
"When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"" | |
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| Black-only schools
Posted: 2/19/2008 3:45:48 AM | In the last provincial election in Ontario, Tory of the conservatives wanted to finance Religious schools to the tune of 500 mill. It was an issue that I imagine many people would have liked to see. What many of us forgot was before him in the conservative party Harris during his term, wanted to finance Private schools to the tune of 500 mill. Same amount different reasons, same schools would get them. It was all about us, the public financing private education without the general public allowed.
It relevance is, same message, different causes.
My buddy at the time offer the idea that for those who need religious study, why not focues on it as a subject or class in every school. It would not be hard to offer a class or subject for Black culture. After all, it would be easier to reach all the Black children if it was offered in every school, if the student wished to take the course.
For me I cannot feel that there is another under the table reason for this. | |
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