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| guns at home
Posted: 12/3/2007 6:56:33 AM | At one point I wanted to get a rifle and store it at a gun club, just to target shoot. When I found out that it was impossible to do, I gave up on the idea. The only way I'd ever own a firearm is if I lived in a rather remote location, and not for any real defensive purpose except from possibly rabid animals.
You have to store weapons and ammo in separate locations, and both in secure areas. Essentially that means they cannot be legally kept in a manner where they can be quickly used against intruders.
I'll live with that, simply because I support gun control here. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/3/2007 9:33:12 AM |
You seem to have had a hard childhood...as a child you could not help but be harmed..may I ask where your parents were? Why did they do nothing?
they had no idea about my grandfather until recent years.....in my day's you didn't have childline and not many parents believed the child like nowadays... but that was my choice to keep it from them not theirs.... my rape... yes they were there for me... the man was brought to justice(by the courts,not my parents shooting him)... my mugging again... I was 17... I lived away from home... nothing was done as we do not know who he was..... but that is not the issue here... please don't use my parents as bad parents.... they (since they have found out the truth have been there for me.... but to late... the ba stard died 14 years ago),they only found out because of my dad's sister... my aunt.. it happened to her also and when my nan died she felt she had no one to protect anymore and told the family... not my choice.... I would have kept it secret to my grave.... it was not my fathers fault his father was a monster.... sorry... went off topic there...but felt the need to answer.....
You have to store weapons and ammo in separate locations, and both in secure areas. Essentially that means they cannot be legally kept in a manner where they can be quickly used against intruders.
well said montreal..... IF you feel the need to have a gun in your home.... it should not have bullets in it ready to fire at whim....... | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/3/2007 10:37:30 AM | """... IF you feel the need to have a gun in your home.... it should not have bullets in it ready to fire at whim..."""
That's the law in our country. A number of years ago, a single mom i knew in our town was shacked up with a guy that kep his guns laying around. One saturday morning I guess the kids were being kids and fooling around and the one kid blew the other kids head off.
Gun cases and steel lockers that look like filing cabinets are the most common method of storing guns around these parts. Mind you, several years ago our government botched up beyond description a gun registry system that bilked millions from the taxpayer and was eventually dropped because of the bureaucracy. Folks were getting fined for not registering air nailers and screw guns and all kinds of stupidity.
Northwest of here a lot of folks have wall to wall collections and rooms full of guns of various types ~ Gun collectors with antiques passed down generations. I know of a lot of folks that built some underground bunkers to hide their guns because of the ridiculous costs associated with registering all their guns. Most gun owners I know take their gun safety very seriously. I might get one. We still haven't become susceptible here to the home invasions that go on around south of here and in the States. If it gets to here, I'll be taking some courses and getting one.
Chances could be that we don't have a lot of home invasions not only because of the way we live around these parts, but also maybe because so many homes have shotguns inside them. Lots of hunters in these parts, and it's only a guess, but i would guess more homes have guns in them than don't. You'd either be very brave or very foolish to start breaking into a lot of homes around here. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/3/2007 3:52:46 PM | .
This just came to me today. Here are the facts, as published in a legal journal, from a noted scholar on the topic:
Gun bans lead to increase in violent crime
The problem with Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban -- as anyone who can
look up the crime numbers will see -- is that D.C.'s murder and violent
crime rates went up, not down, after the ban. Prior to the ban DC's
murder rate was falling. After the ban, DC's murder rate rose, and only
once fell below what it was in 1976, says John Lott, Senior Research
Scientist at the University of Maryland.
Further:
o The District's ban specifically points to Great Britain's
handgun ban in January 1997; but the number of deaths and
injuries from gun crime in England and Wales increased 340
percent in the seven years from 1998 to 2005.
o The rates of serious violent crime, armed robberies, rapes
and homicide have also soared.
o Similar experiences have been seen with other bans, such as
those in Ireland and Jamaica.
The District also notes that the regulations requiring the lock-up and
disassembly of guns do not "prevent the use of a lawful firearm in
self-defense." But taking the District's claims as accurate,
locked guns are simply not as readily accessible for defensive gun
uses, says Lott:
o In the United States, states that require guns be locked up
and unloaded face a 5 percent increase in murder and a 12
percent increase in rapes.
o Criminals are more likely to attack people in their homes and
those attacks are more likely to be successful.
Since potentially armed victims deter criminals, storing a gun locked
and unloaded actually encourages increased crime, says Lott. If
the phrase "keep handguns and other firearms for private use in
their homes" was chosen for a purpose, it might be that gun lock
laws raise their own problems that limit people's ability to use guns
for defense."
Source: John Lott, "Gun bans lead to increase in violent
crime," Jurist, November 24, 2007.
For text:
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/hotline/2007/11/gun-bans-lead-to-increase-in-violent.php
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/3/2007 4:15:40 PM | I was raised in a house with guns and have guns in my house.
My personaly thoughts on guns with kids in the house is make sure the kids know they guns are there and are taught gun safty such as dont point the gun at people, check to see if it is loaded before you do anything with it, and it is not a toy to be played with. If kids have a good understanding of guns they are much less likely to find the gun a novilty item to play with and hurt themself or others. Most child related accidents with guns comes from them finding them and thinking they are cool and having no idea of what that gun can really do. By the time I was 5 my dad was out teaching me how to shoot and handle guns. I have to upmost repect for guns and what they could do and would never play with them or touch them without my dad there.
As for why I have guns, I like to go back packing and camping, We have big mean wild animals that have no fear of humans so I like to carry a gun with me when I am camping it has nothing to do with being safe at my house and had nothing to do with using a gun to defend myself agaist humans. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/3/2007 4:23:54 PM |
Gun bans lead to increase in violent crime
I'm not, nor are most people, arguing for the banning of guns.
Controlling them is another matter , entirely.
That leads to a decrease in violent crime. If you have any doubts, take a walk north over the 49th parallel. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/4/2007 5:36:36 AM | I am in favor of gun control.
If you can hit what you are aiming at, you have gun control. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/4/2007 9:08:48 AM | To my fellow gun owners and enthusists:
We have no need to try and defend ourselves and our activities against people in forums such as these.
They will not be convinced by your words and beliefs.
Its like trying to teach a pig to sing: It gets you nowhere and annoys the pig.
To all those who disagree with my beliefs: My guns and I will defend to the death your right to disagree with me. What protection will your words provide me? | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/4/2007 10:44:22 AM |
I'm not, nor are most people, arguing for the banning of guns.
Controlling them is another matter , entirely.
again...here here montreal
To my fellow gun owners and enthusists:
shudder
We have no need to try and defend ourselves and our activities against people in forums such as these.
against people in forums such as these???? what does that mean? people who don't believe in killing? ok... I am one of THESE PEOPLE
To all those who disagree with my beliefs: My guns and I will defend to the death your right to disagree with me. What protection will your words provide me?
we don't have protection over people like you who own guns... that is the sad way of life...... if you feel the need to own a gun to kill.... then I can't defend myself against SOMEONE LIKE YOU.....you win.... hope your proud..... I would rather die than be a murderer
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/4/2007 11:22:46 AM | My house was burglarized 6 times in one year. I'm pretty sure these were the actions of at least one dropout teen in my area. I don't live in a bad area. It is rural and most of the people in the area are at work during the day, but I had never had a problem until after my divorce. I guess no man around meant easy target. No electronics were stolen; just money, liquor, costume jewelry... things a teen could easily tuck away and not be seen carrying down the road.
Anyway... the last time was April 2007. I finally put out considerable money for a security system which included video surveillance. I also bought a .38 revolver and a box of hollow points. I put a large sign in my yard offering a reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the responsible party. At the bottom of the sign is the following message for the culprit: "To the punk a** thief: If I catch you inside I WILL kill you." I put the word out that if I managed to catch the person on film I would not turn the pic over to police but spread it all over town and someone would surely see to it he 'disappeared.' I bragged around town that I had poisoned bottles of alcohol in my house. I didn't. I thought about it but was afraid the thief would share it with an innocent (unless you count guilt by association) person.
I sleep with my alarm system armed and the gun (loaded) right beside me on the bedside table. If I didn't have the gun I doubt I would sleep much at all and certainly not well. When I leave my home, I unload the gun and take it with me. I don't look for trouble or imagine myself some kind of bad a**, but this person's actions terrorized me in a sense to the point I would feel totally justified in blowing him away in my home. I don't believe I would blink or feel remorse for a second. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/4/2007 7:01:52 PM |
Its like trying to teach a pig to sing: It gets you nowhere and annoys the pig.
Insults and violence are products of a limited mind. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/4/2007 7:21:32 PM |
DAMN.... I HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED BY MY GRANDFATHER FROM THE AGE OF 5 TO 13..... was raped at 14..... mugged and beaten at 17.... fook... believe me... I KNOW THE MENTAL PAIN ..... I HATE THEM FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO ME.... BUT I STILL DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO MURDER THEM..... on saying that... if anyone touches my children.... I WILL MAKE THEM PAY.... BUT NOT BY MURDERING THEM... that is to light ... make them suffer... MURDER IS NOT THE ANSWER....
You should look into some kind of self defense if you don't like guns. Can you canadian folks own the handheld tazers? MG was mentioning systema, a MA type system. If you are short in money you can even go down to the library or video store and rent any one of dozens of DIY self defense programs. There's no reason to keep being a victim. That is probably why you are all jumpy in the first place. Believe me, your mind deserves the rest and sanity.
And remember ALL killing is not murder. Had you shot and killed a rapist in the commission of a felony you would likely never be charged. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/5/2007 12:46:49 AM | I wrote what I did because I have seen threads like these always deteriorate into the same tired arguments.
Everyone gets indignant and self-righteous. Thier skin gets thinner and most things are percieved as insults.(in reference to insults:msg42).
My message to fellow gun owners was a "calm down we have nothing to prove to people that don't argee with our beliefs and no amount of arguing on a forum site is going to change that." Ergo the analogy.
To the OP and others; I have no problem with your disagreement. You don't like the fact that I collect firearms because I can; you haven't been invited to my home, so why would my opinion in answering the OP's question infiriate you and make you want to try and change other peoples opinions?
Will I use them(firearms) for protection, I hope I never have to find out.
OT: Some wopuld say that the lineage of rock and roll is that is came from rockabilly which came from YEE_HAW music. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/5/2007 5:04:50 AM | Moderategoodguy
My message to fellow gun owners was a "calm down we have nothing to prove to people that don't argee with our beliefs and no amount of arguing on a forum site is going to change that." Ergo the analogy.
There is no need to explain your analogy. I think it was fairly simple to understand. And while yes, it meant that the gun owners and non gun owners would more than likely never see eye to eye, you made it seem as if the reason were because of the superior intelligence of the gun owners. And that's ridiculously condescending.
I am glad you pointed out Post#42. I did add a bit of sarcasm to it, but I find it hard to hold my tongue after being insulted repeatedly by Maderategoodguy, who has the audacity to insinuate that people without guns are nothing but voluntary victims who are content with their plight. I have never been a "victim" of any circumstance (outside of the military) that would have benefited anyone by me having or using a firearm. With this said, his comment was based on nothing more than ignorant speculation, and I thought I would return the favor. | |
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dmotz
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 65 | |
| guns at home
Posted: 12/7/2007 9:08:19 AM | Polgara
<div class='quote'>My personaly thoughts on guns with kids in the house is make sure the kids know they guns are there and are taught gun safty such as dont point the gun at people,
<div class='quote'>
I have to disagree with you on this one. Although I am a rabid gun freak according to some of our more socialist/communist friends in this forum, I do not think a weapon should be around kids. When my friends come over with their kids all my guns are put in the safe and locked up. When I am home by myself...the guns are out and in plain view. Guns and kids do not mix..anyone with a bit of common sense knows this.
As for my so called attack on a few posters here...You have the nerve to treat those of us with different views on guns with disdain..When you need one...and do not have it...your bad..Hope you like your new pine box bedroom!
RS...
You are a voluntary victim if your home is not protected and people know it. I have a hard time believing that you could possibly think you can never be assulted...burglarized...attacked...you have to be the coolest guy in the world!
Random acts of violence happen everyday to good honest people like yourself and others..dont wear your blinders to long... | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/7/2007 10:50:45 AM |
I have a hard time believing that you could possibly think you can never be assulted...burglarized...attacked...you have to be the coolest guy in the world!
Random acts of violence happen everyday to good honest people like yourself and others..dont wear your blinders to long...
MGG,
I've lived in Quebec for over fifty years, and I've never known anyone personally that's been a victim of a gun related crime. I met one woman who's friend was killed by an ex with a gun, but that's an exceptional event.
In over ten years of working in an alarm central responding to things like hold-ups , I can count the number of times a real firearm has been used on PERHAPS ten fingers. Just last week we had a hold up at a gas station with a handgun, and everyone at work was going "Wow !" . It's always amazing to see the reaction of the less experienced operators when they realize that people actually DO use a firearm in commission of a crime. It's so rare that it's actually an event that surprises them.
We handle a LOT of corner stores and gas stations, as well as major chain stores. Literally thousands and thousands of them.
That tells me at least that it's possible to reduce gun crime to a minimum, with careful thought and the right cultural conditions. I've got direct evidence of that, every day I go into the office and every day I walk on the streets of my working class neighborhood.
If I felt the need to own a weapon for protection, I'd start speaking out on the social conditions that were allowing that to happen. Owning a gun won't ever solve those problems, except when it's too late.
At that point, it's whoever shoots first that wins. | |
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Advice
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Joined: 11/1/2007
Msg: 67 | |
| guns at home
Posted: 12/7/2007 4:05:18 PM | I own a handgun and have had it a couple years, I don't know if I necessarily feel more safe, I don't feel less safe without it... I live in the suburbs and don't think I'll ever need to use it in self-defense but the problem is you don't need it til you need it... see the problem isn't guns, it's stupid people with guns... If every responsible citizen in the world had a gun, that would really cut down on crime... Statistics have found that states which allow concealed carry experience a drop in violent crime rates... Why??? Criminals will think twice about robbing someone if they think they might have a gun on them. In the Wild West everyone had guns, in the movies, Hollywood always has these big shootouts and everyone gets shot... in reality, back then there wasn't a whole lot of crime b/c everyone had a gun... you gonna try to rob somebody when everyone around has a gun??? problem is, especially in your case, where guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns... The mall shooting that took place in Omaha Nebraska a few days ago killed like 10 people, if some of the patrons of that mall had concealed carry handguns, maybe he would have been stopped before shooting so many people... The major problem is once one guy pulls his gun and shoots the crazed gunman, who knows how many might see him shooting and start shooting at him... I don't understand the political thinking over there, if guns are outlawed that only stops law-abiding citizens from defending themselves... You think a murderer or bank robber is gonna be like oh I can't use a gun b/c they're outlawed... You think that will stop a criminal from obtaining a gun, simply b/c it's illegal??? He's a criminal, they'll do what they want.
"Where guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns" | |
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Advice
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Joined: 11/1/2007
Msg: 68 | |
| guns at home
Posted: 12/7/2007 4:07:14 PM | | Gun control means using two hands.... | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/7/2007 4:36:52 PM |
If every responsible citizen in the world had a gun, that would really cut down on crime... Statistics have found that states which allow concealed carry experience a drop in violent crime rates...
Let's examine that "fact", shall we.
First of all, let's look at the open carry states - as they should be far more a deterrent , since a potential attacker can see the weapon, and know the owner is armed.
West Virginia, Kentucky , Montana , Vermont , Arizona , New Mexico , Idaho , and Wyoming are among those "gold star" states.
http://opencarry.org/
Now let's look at homicide rates, per 1000 population. (circa 2006)
West Virginia 4.1
Kentucky 4.0
Montana 1.8
Vermont 1.9
Arizona 7.5
New Mexico 6.8
Idaho 2.5
Wyoming 1.7
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=169#MRalpha
Now let's look at Canada, where only 50 people (roughly) in the entire country can legally carry a handgun for personal protection (as civilians).
The national homicide rate peaked in the mid-1970s at 3.0 homicides per 100,000 population. It has generally been dropping since then, reaching a low of 1.7 in 2003.
The 2005 rate was 2.0 homicides per 100,000.
The property crime rate fell 6% in 2005, the second consecutive decline. This put the rate at its lowest level in more than 30 years.
The rate of robbery incidents rose 3%, but it was still 15% lower than a decade ago. Police reported almost 29,000 robberies, more than half of which were committed without a weapon of any kind. Robberies committed with a firearm continued to drop, falling 5% last year.
Virtually all 27 census metropolitan areas (CMAs) reported declining or stable crime rates. The only exceptions were small increases in London and Ottawa.
Again, the highest crime rates were in Western cities. However, Regina's crime rate declined 15% in 2005, dropping it behind Saskatoon for the highest crime rate among all 27 CMAs.
Abbotsford, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Edmonton and Victoria reported the next highest rates. Saguenay, Québec, Trois-Rivières and Sherbrooke recorded the lowest crime rates.
Crime rates fell in all provinces and territories last year, with the largest provincial declines in Manitoba and New Brunswick, each down 8%.
The national crime rate has been relatively stable since 1999, with last year's 5% decrease offsetting a 6% hike in 2003. The crime rate declined during the 1990s, after rising throughout most of the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s.
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/060720/d060720b.htm
Without ANY handguns allowed for personal protection (for almost every single citizen) , and with stringent gun control, Canada's unarmed population beats even most of the right to carry states easily.
Even the fluctuation in homicide rates within those right to carry states shows you that other factors must be accounting for the difference. If poverty and education are lower, and population centers are larger - the numbers of crimes will logically probably be higher.
So , in the end, guns DON'T make you safer - as proven here every single day of the year.
To follow that "NRA logic" , Canada should have been overrun by criminals long ago.
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/8/2007 7:12:30 AM |
You are a voluntary victim if your home is not protected and people know it.
Who's to say that my home isn't protected? Is a firearm the only form of protection?
I have a hard time believing that you could possibly think you can never be assulted...burglarized...attacked...
I don't think this at all. Just as I don't believe that you would think that by owning guns that you are excluded from these dangers. I am aware that there is always a possibility of danger. I just think that having guns around makes that danger more imminent. I base this idea on my experience with guns in the past. It's all based on perception. While many people think that the best way to walk through a bad neighborhood is to carry a weapon, I prefer to think of ways to avoid that neighborhood all together. | |
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dmotz
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 71 | |
| guns at home
Posted: 12/8/2007 8:14:59 AM | We have differing opinions and thats all good and well. I do not think that having guns makes me safer...I just prefer to have them handy. I have yet to explain my reasoning for this...so now I will.
Six months after I got out of the Army I was living in Little Rock Arkansas in a very upscale neighborhood. I was sleeping one night about 11 pm and woke to gun shots from a neighbors home. A 19 year old kid had broken into their home and was beating his ex girlfriend with a crowbar. Her mom shot him 3 times. The girl has permanent brain damage and has lost the use of her right arm.
You never now what kind of fool is going to do something stupid like attack you or your family. I think the mom was 100% right to kill the S.O.B.
I would hope this never happens to you or anyone else but if your not protected...you will be out of luck and no way to stop it.. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/8/2007 9:20:10 AM | I have 3 guns, a 22, 12 gauge, and a 30,30, I keep the guns unloaded and in a case and tucked away. 2 were gifts and one I bought and I feel totally safe with them in the house and although I would never want to use them for protection, however if put in that position I would to protect myself or family. Guns are no different then anything else that can cause harm.. You have to respect them and use common sense. Got kids? Gun locks on them and bullets locked up.
I’ve grew up with them and had safety courses for hunting. Although I’m not really a hunter. we have had the Occasional bear and Coyote wander around the house and my uncal was attacked by a bob cat and shot it he walks with a limp and i think the animal thought he was wounded had he not had a gun he might not be here..
you let something happen like katrina and see if you might need one..
I find it very comforting to know that if the time came I could defend myself or feed myself. Also from the stats I’ve read crime goes down when more people have guns.. it’s the nuts,thugs, and crooks that you have to wacth with them. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/8/2007 5:11:35 PM | I'm not making a reactionary comment, but there was a news item here the other day of a young man in the States who actually stole his Father in Laws gun and Killed 9 innocent people, now this was not just any hand gun but an AK47 assault rifle , at least please explain to me why it would necessary for any civilian person to be in need of such a deadly weapon.
The reason i ask these questions are not to prove who is right and who is wrong , more that I come from a different culture and I'm trying to understand your mindset
(not attack it) So any insightful comments would be more than welcome. | |
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dmotz
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Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 74 | |
| guns at home
Posted: 12/8/2007 6:40:45 PM | | Guns don't kill people...People kill people! What good is a gun without a bullet? What good is the gun without a finger on the trigger? The gun is nothing...it is a persons mindset and actions that make the gun deadly...Most of us who own weapons are responsible..not killers or criminals...sheesh... | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 12/8/2007 6:47:19 PM | Again, if guns made you any safer .....why is Canada bettering your states with even open carry laws and pretty much free use of deadly force , far beyond what Canadian laws allow ?
According to the NRA , and many gun owners, that's impossible .
It isn't , as our stats plainly show.
That tells me guns have far less impact on safety than other factors do, and guns won't solve the problem. If they did, the USA would have FAR better stats on crime than they do. | |
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