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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 8:09:34 AM | No one that I am aware of is saying the having a firearm makes you a killer. And I have done my share of traveling in this world, and I have never met anyone who has told me that they think Iraq is more safe than America. I think some of your assessments might be a bit exaggerated.
Owning a weapon doesn't make someone a a killer anymore than the possession of a joint making someone a pothead. But it's a common fact that potheads tend to have joints on them a lot, as well as killers having guns a lot.
I think one aspect of gun use that people are not taking into consideration in these debates is the number of people in prison who may not be there had they not had access to a gun. While I do agree with you that holding a gun doesn't automatically make someone a lawbreaker, it does change ones state of mine by giving them a sense of empowerment.
Take Joe, the turdbag crackhead for instance. He is desperate, he needs money, and he has access to a gun (whether or not that gun is his). This is the perfect combination for an armed robbery. But take only one variable out of the scenario...the gun...and the robbery is much less likely to happen. And even if it does happen, it's much less likely to be successful since it will not be an armed robbery.
Now the fact is, the more people out there who have guns, the more people who are going to have guns illegally. How do you think criminals get their hands on guns? They either buy them from people who originally had them legally, or they steal them from people who had them illegally. These are the two most common ways for a criminal to get a gun. It starts with a law abiding citizen who is either careless and not paying close attention as to who they are selling their firearms to, or that law abiding citizen gets they gun stolen. Either way, if that law abiding citizen had not have had that gun, there would not have been a gun ending up in the hand of a criminal.
So while you use a gun to help you sleep at night, just remember. The guns that criminals use were also purchased with the original intent to help others sleep at night.
When you think about it, it's ironic that the people who think they need guns for protection are for the most part, the very same people who inadvertently arm the criminals that they are so afraid of.
I have much the same opinion of guns as Montreal Guy. I'm not against people having them. I'm just for controlling them better. By limiting people's right to sell guns without a license, we limit the number of guns sold to "seemingly harmless" people who are actually criminals. If I want to go out and sell a single gun to someone this year, there is no law stopping me. But how do I know that guy isn't a criminal or that he doesn't live in the same house as a criminal? I don't have the means to readily secure a proper background check. I have to use my own judgment. But I can guarantee that a proper background check is most ofter more accurate than someone's judgment. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 9:31:40 AM | well I cant speak for everyone but I can tell you my own personal experiences and research on the matter. If you look up kennesaw, Ga the people have a story to tell. Morton Grove, Illinois became the first town in the U.S. to pass a flat out ban on the possession of handguns within the town limits by anyone except police and active duty military during the performance of their official duties. In response, the town of Kennesaw, Georgia passed a gun law of their own in March of 1982. The Kennesaw law was almost the exact opposite to the Morton Grove ordinance. Rather than banning handgun possession, Kennesaw required every head-of-household to keep at least one firearm and appropriate ammunition in their home – with exemptions for those who had religious or philosophical objections to maintaining or using weapons. In other words, gun ownership was mandatory except for people who didn’t want to own a gun.
While Morton Grove became an instant media darling, Kennesaw became a pariah and a punch line. Pundits and “reporters” made jokes and wild predictions about the blood that would soon run in the streets of the small town a few miles North of Atlanta. The derision can still be heard occasionally from a late-night talk show host or a reflective news anchor, but all of the predictions of the “Wild West” and shootouts over fender-benders, simply didn’t pan out. Of course this lack of disaster was simply ignored by most in the media as were the actual results of this little comparative experiment.
Kennesaw and Morton Grove weren’t really a fair comparison when the experiment started. Kennesaw was pretty rural while Morton Grove was solidly suburban. Kennesaw had a population of only about 5500 while Morton Grove was closer to 23,000. And Kennesaw had a per capita crime rate significantly higher than the national average while Morton Grove enjoyed a relatively low crime rate. The fact is, Kennesaw was at a marked disadvantage from the beginning of this comparison. In the nearly three decades since these laws went into effect, Kennesaw’s disadvantage has grown rather than shrunk. While Morton Grove has remained at a fairly steady population, Kennesaw’s population has boomed to take a slight lead. While Morton Grove’s residents are slightly older than the national average, Kennesaw’s are significantly younger. Both towns are predominantly White, but Kennesaw has more Blacks and Hispanics while Morton Grove’s minority population is predominantly Asian. Statistically, Asian populations have the lowest crime rates of any minority while Blacks and Hispanics have the highest crime rates in the nation.
With all of these disadvantages working against Kennesaw, how did the two communities actually fare?
Morton Grove’s relatively low crime rate went up by over 15% immediately after enactment of the ban (12% more than surrounding areas) and has held pretty steady at just a tad below the national average ever since. There has been no statistical indication of the handgun ban having any positive effect.
Kennesaw is a different story though. In 1982, the year the firearms requirement was enacted, Kennesaw realized a 74% reduction in crime against persons over the previous year. That rate then dropped 45% between 1982 and 1983. In fairness, statistics showing percentage increases or decreases in crime can be very misleading especially when crime numbers and the population are both low to begin with.
The statistics that are really telling are per capita comparisons between municipal, county, regional, and national averages. When a city’s crime rate is trending parallel to the national and/or regional crime rates (whether higher or lower) and then deviates dramatically from those averages after a new law is passed, that is a strong indication that the new law is having an impact. While Morton Grove’s per capita crime rate took a dramatic jump, deviating substantially from regional and national averages, right after passage of their gun ban, Kennesaw’s crime rate did the opposite in an even more dramatic way. After Kennesaw’s gun law was enacted crime dropped dramatically – much faster than federal, state, or local trends – and leveled out well below national averages. In spite of a population increase from 5000 to almost 30,000 during the same period, Kennesaw’s crime rates remain significantly lower than national or area averages. And the people of Kennesaw didn’t have to use their mandated firearms to effect this dramatic change. The simple knowledge on the part of criminals that if they worked in Kennesaw they were choosing to work with an armed prospective victim pool was enough to convince them not to pursue their chosen professions there.
After the enactment of the firearms mandate in 1982, it took 15 years before there was a murder committed with a firearm in the town. As I recall, it was the result of two visitors who got into an argument in their motel room. One was insisting that a .25 automatic could not penetrate thick chest muscles like his and the other fellow decided to settle the argument and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were both idiots.
After 25 years, Kennesaw and Morton Grove stand out as proof positive that the only gun control laws with any hope of reducing crime are laws which empower the law-abiding people rather than disarming them. But remember how much news coverage was given to this story last March? Expect more of that deafening silence for the 26th anniversary next March.
As for my personal experiences I own a few firearms and frequently practice open carry. In Missouri as well as most all the states have open carry written in to there states constitutions. I feel that accidental shooting from minors would be better addressed by firearm safety training as well as keeping them in a safe place. I fired my first firearm at the age of 5 years. I have never had a firearm accident because of my training.
I know that the media like to publicize the dark news regarding firearms this bias emulates globally as countries and individuals loses the rights to defend them selfs do crime rates drop because of these governmental actions? Hardly... I would much rather have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 11:20:08 AM |
You live 45 minutes away from a town/police. .. A vehicle pulls into your yard and 4 wired punks jump out and head towards your house carrying baseball bats ... You have children sleeping in their rooms peacefully ...
Where the hell do you live that this is a genuine fear? Baghdad?
But . . .
What if you;re out driving at night , lost in the middle of nowhere , pass by a farmhouse , pull over to ask for directions. As you're walking up the path , you reach into your pocket to pull out a map of the area - BANG!
"Sorry officer , but he did have long hair - and was walking kind of funny. Looked like he was reaching for a gun . . . Thought he might have been on PCP or something"
I just looked up the number of deaths by Firearms in the USA in 2004 through your justice department stats and was given the total number as 29,569.
Wow. A quick glance at Wikipedia :
In 2005/06 there were 766 offences initially recorded as homicide by the police in England and Wales (including the 52 victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings), a rate of 1.4 per 100,000 of population. Only 50 (6.6%) were committed with firearms, one being with an air weapon.
Yep. UK. Overrun with murder and death because people don't have guns.
The image this - and other such threads - brings up is people in the US putting on bullet proof vests and grabbing their machine gun before popping out to check their mailbox each morning. Just in case a drug addict leaps out from behind a lamppost and charges at them. I'm sure that can't really be the case.
And yet , I'm not actually not anti-guns - for fun. I like gun games at arcades , and love laser tag. Guns because 'everyone's out to get me' is where I draw the line.
I own 14 firearms ranging from a .22 all the way up to .45 cal. This does not include my 4 shotguns and 2 rifles. I have over 4000 rounds of Ammo total and buying more every week.
After 12 years in the Army...I have no problem pulling the trigger...no remorse...no guilt...I
That just needed repeating. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 12:24:06 PM | | I have three rifles, but they are not for protection. I hunt. I do not fear any harm coming to me so they are for hunting purposes only. If it did happen one day where I was in mortal danger then I would have no problem doing anything I had to to save my life. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 1:05:09 PM |
I have three rifles, but they are not for protection. I hunt. I do not fear any harm coming to me so they are for hunting purposes only. If it did happen one day where I was in mortal danger then I would have no problem doing anything I had to to save my life.
I second that.
Having guns at home is all about responsible ownership. We are also hunters and when we aren't hunting, the guns are trigger locked and stored in a locked gun cabinet. My kids know that guns are not toys, that they are very dangerous and not to be touched. I live in the "boonies" and other than the odd bear or wolf that may get too close to the house, we've never had our lives endangered by another person... and the chances of that happening are slim to none.
OP's original post:
ermmm..... ok in the United Kingdom... Ilegal...fullstop..... and I agree.... but my question is... over the pond where it is legal or normal to have one for survial... do you really feel safe? the thought of having a leathal weapon in my home would terrify me and if I felt the need to have such a thing in my home for safety then I would consider moving..... we are not allowed such weapons here.. but for you who are... would you use it? and would you feel ok about it? .... is it not a dangerous thing to own.... especially single mums
You actually have alot of lethal weapons in your home, they may not be guns, but knives and bats and screwdrivers, etc. can be quite dangerous if the intent was to kill. I agree that if your needing guns for safety in your home that you probably live in the wrong place and should move... but thankfully here in Canada there aren't alot of places where you'd need a gun to protect your family.
I think single moms having a gun for "protection" isn't always the brightest idea. First off, how many times in your life have you felt the need to use a gun to protect yourself? If the answer is anything more than zero, you need to move. It's great to want to be protected, but unless you really know how to use the weapon and feel confident with having it... it's a bad idea. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 3:11:51 PM | Where the hell do you live that this is a genuine fear? Baghdad?
North County St Louis MO qualifies here.......and dam n near any major town or city with a gang population.
Do you sleep 23 1/2 hours a day??
Wow. A quick glance at Wikipedia :
History and all the arts and sciences....written by the people,for the people and changed as often as an infants diaper...by the people.What a crock.......
Now the fact is, the more people out there who have guns, the more people who are going to have guns illegally. How do you think criminals get their hands on guns? They either buy them from people who originally had them legally, or they steal them from people who had them illegally.
Huh?^^^^ | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 4:54:27 PM | """""""Where the hell do you live that this is a genuine fear? Baghdad?
But . . .
What if you;re out driving at night , lost in the middle of nowhere , pass by a farmhouse , pull over to ask for directions. As you're walking up the path , you reach into your pocket to pull out a map of the area - BANG!
"Sorry officer , but he did have long hair - and was walking kind of funny. Looked like he was reaching for a gun . . . Thought he might have been on PCP or something"
"""""""
There we are once again, there are no criminals just law abiding gun owners that kill .
Tony Martin, UK in jail for killing one of two intruders in his house. The second is free and trying to sue Mr Martin for shooting him while he was breaking into his house. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 5:53:55 PM |
which I know for a fact at least 3 ladies on here have a gun and will use it..... OMG..... if this is the case... I could never live over the pond... to scarey
What is truly scary are the rates for sexual and aggravated assault within the UK. They blow away North America's statistics. I had always assumed it was because we over here are allowed to own firearms. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 6:11:57 PM | There are all kinds of lethal weapons in people's homes, but guns seem to be the big boogieman lately. I grew up in a home full of guns, so it doesn't seem all that scary. But why do people in other countries think we all have guns, like some bad western movie, I mean really, should we think that the UK is nothing but a bunch of Beatles running around making records? It's really kind of silly, don't you think?
Most people I know do not own a gun. We do have guns in the house, so far no accidents, so for 57 years I've managed to live in a home with guns, raised 3 children and nobody has been hurt by having guns around. So some stupid people own guns, yes, they also own cars and I'd be much more worried about an asshat driving a car because it probably happens on a daily bases with them. Many things in a home can kill you or cause serious accidents and do, I'm a lot more worried about the chemicals or drowning when it comes to children than them finding and using a locked-away unloaded gun. That's another thing, you have kids, know where they are and what they are doing, it's your job as a parent.
You bet your booty I'd use it, if someone is such a low-life scumbag to break into my home and try to steal from or harm me or my family, I'd shoot without a qualm, and shoot to kill. So far I have not had to prove that, but you know, when someone chooses crime, fluck 'em.
I can't help but laugh at the comment OP makes about having a gun for survival...since many many Americans have survived without ever owning a gun, just how is it that we have to have a gun to survive? Where do these idiot views of American life come from? I don't watch BBC TV and assume these shows are about real Brits.  | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 6:36:20 PM | | Do you feel safe in your kitchen, you drive a terribly dangerous weapon, how about those garden tools? | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 6:44:26 PM | Ahhh the age old argument. "Guns don't kill pople I do" Ok seriousoly thouugh. A gun in the home is dangerouse in a couple ways which I feel I have the remedry.
1 Curiosity: A child is curiouse there fore waits for the right time to play wih one. He has no knowlege of the wepon, thus anaccidents happens and soneone gets hurt or killed.
I have a couplde solutins, My kids know they cah handle my guns any tine they ask WITH me preasent, No nater what tine of gun Ishow them the safe and proper way to hande rhem. It takes the curiousity away and teaches then to be safe. 2 You can make your house as safe as can be but you have no clue about how safe their friends house is.
My kids are taught right for eny environement. My 3rd garder founf a .25 auto on the playground and unchamgered it, popped the click and slid the action open before giving the pistol to to teacher in a safe manner as he as taaught. She was very empressed and was so glad he foud it and not another kid,
I guess I am saying, take away the curiosity and teach them the safe way to handle any fire arem VS sheltering them from them because you can only set a good exampe and show that to respect them, you have no control over what they may run accross and I feel better knoweing they are educated about all fireamrms and respect them! | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 6:50:56 PM | Someone said to leave the shoot-outs to the police?
As a former officer I can tell you that the average "gunfight" lasts about 3 seconds and takes place at about 7 feet apart. An average of 3 rounds are expended and in cases where one of those rounds actually hits someone, 2 of 3 times it'll be the officer who is shot. I know a number of former colleagues who were shot, while the shooter never even got a scratch.
By the time you can pick up a phone to dial, most gunfights or shootings are long over and the culprit is already leaving.
Go see what gun control did for South Africans. The day the gun ban went into effect, home invasion robberies began to skyrocket, along with the number of dead unarmed homeowners and their families. Just because you raise your hands and tell a crook you're unarmed, doesn't mean you have any better chance of being alive when it's all done. It just means he'll spend less time "capping you", eliminating one more witness.
I don't care where you live in the world. Someone is illegally armed to the teeth and will eventually begin shooting people with little warning. At least here, there's a good chance someone will be shooting back. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 8:04:34 PM | Guns are tools. That is it. Whether you use that tool to kill people, to hunt, or for protection. There is nothing inherently good or bad about guns but how they are used. Tools are my trade. To me the weapons I use are tools that I train with much like a Welder will use an Arc or Mig welder to create something out of medal. Those are the tools of his trade, an M4 carbine is mine.
The media and Hollywood is to blame for the fear and anti gun legalization. Think about it. The only exposure people get to firearms is through gun fights on the news and in violent movies. Most people who fear guns have never even seen a gun in person, much less held or heaven forbid fire it. Now some gun laws I can understand. You don't need your average Joe Citizen driving down the road with a M2 .50 on his SUV (google it) or someone using an AT4 as a stump remover (also google it). | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 8:35:37 PM | | You'll think different soon. The average citizen is precisely were it goes. Mike that is how the average soccer mom feels about every non shotgun. Why does a civilian need a non hunting gun? You can't just skim off the top. Most people, even gun users don't know that most states machine guns, suppressors, hell even destructive devices are legal. Unfortionly NY is not one of them. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/8/2009 11:08:43 PM | | These days? Guns at home are good. So are guns in storage. There should be a nice little stash safely tucked away in the event things in this country ...deteriorate. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/9/2009 8:38:06 AM | | In Switxweland it is mandatory for every Man and Female to serve one year and become qualified on an automatic weapon. After discharge from service they are required to keep an auto in their home. They have one of the lowest rates of hose break ins etc due to what I believe is anyone wanting to break in knows there is more than likely at least one AK-47 etc in the home and someone who knows how to use it. Deterent? | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/9/2009 8:57:11 AM | you can protect yourself form lost Japanese exchange student seeking directions, like the one in LA that was shot to death by some paranoid wacko after he knocked on the home-owner's door.
I think there was another similar case not long ago in TX, as well?
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE4DD123AF937A15756C0A965958260
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-910071.html | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/9/2009 3:39:46 PM |
1 Curiosity: A child is curiouse there fore waits for the right time to play wih one. He has no knowlege of the wepon, thus anaccidents happens and soneone gets hurt or killed.
I have a couplde solutins, My kids know they cah handle my guns any tine they ask WITH me preasent, No nater what tine of gun Ishow them the safe and proper way to hande rhem. It takes the curiousity away and teaches then to be safe. 2 You can make your house as safe as can be but you have no clue about how safe their friends house is.
My kids are taught right for eny environement. My 3rd garder founf a .25 auto on the playground and unchamgered it, popped the click and slid the action open before giving the pistol to to teacher in a safe manner as he as taaught. She was very empressed and was so glad he foud it and not another kid,
I guess I am saying, take away the curiosity and teach them the safe way to handle any fire arem VS sheltering them from them because you can only set a good exampe and show that to respect them, you have no control over what they may run accross and I feel better knoweing they are educated about all fireamrms and respect them!
I have to ask....is this drunk posting?? | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/9/2009 3:58:58 PM | this post was created by a britt. obviously living on the propeganda trowelled out by the liberal media. -who would probibly be speaking german or russian today if we would have surrendered our firearms after we became so called "civilized"
-if you would look back at history, you would see that the reason we won the revolutionary war was because of our militias and beliefs from the original forefathers that the strength of this country was created by the will of arming every citizen in the then colonies against repression from your king.
those feelings and rights are still cherished today by people in this country who would rather die on our feet than live on our knees.
-question: if you were a criminal and you wanted to rob a house, rape somebody, or cause some bodily harm:
which house would you choose -the crazy lady with a shotgun or the gun control advocate? | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/9/2009 7:15:34 PM | | you should own one to protect against tyrants who would disarm you before subjecating you real bad. its not about sports or home protection, or hunting. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/9/2009 9:00:43 PM | | I agree. My handguns are for self defense while out in public. My shotguns are for home defense. My hunting rifles are for hunting. My assault weapons are for the day when my government crosses the line, if not in my life time, they will be hidden away for when my kids or grandkids need them. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/9/2009 10:00:52 PM | (http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-910071.html)
Dam dude, come on that was in 94? Yea bad things happen no doubt but come on. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/10/2009 5:45:33 AM | | Does the UK have tighter gun policies or no? In my opinion as long as the gun is up safe and locked away. We as a society need to stop placing all responsibilities for firearm related incidents upon the gun companies and lawmakers themselves. There comes a time when responsibility needs to fall upon the parents. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/10/2009 8:11:28 AM |
you should own one to protect against tyrants who would disarm you before subjecating you real bad. its not about sports or home protection, or hunting.
and:
I agree. My handguns are for self defense while out in public. My shotguns are for home defense. My hunting rifles are for hunting. My assault weapons are for the day when my government crosses the line, if not in my life time, they will be hidden away for when my kids or grandkids need them.
yeah, well, it's not 1776 any more, when you would be evenly matched with your flintlock against the forces of oppression (gov't troops).
good luck with your shotgun/rifle/handguns, taking on M1A1 Abrams main battle tanks, F-117 stealth fighters, Cobra attack helicopters mounting mini0guns firing 20 mm shells at 3000 rpm, etc., etc.
gonefishin123, the ATF & FBI thanks you for the heads-up on the stashed assault weapons.. | |
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| guns at home
Posted: 2/10/2009 8:42:54 AM | Well first of all we don't live in Canada so
The US is not to use it's military on it's own land. The national gaurd deployments are to secure and help thats it.
Next i'm pretty sure we can see what guys armed with rifles and a little creativity can do. Afghanistan,Iraq just off the top of my head.
Finally yes the ATF and FBI i am sure are concerned since the assault weapons ban was over 5 years ago. It took me 2 weeks and 60 bucks for my CCW license there that was it. (washington state)
Think its hard to fight a enemy on their owne soil? How about fighting a enemy that knows every strenght and weekness of the weapons systems? When your enemy knows every tactic used by you. Im sorry but being in the military i can say for sure the military would have no chance against armed america.
For the record, an ak-47 doesnt even qualify as an assault weapon unless it has 3 of the features. Take off that scary bayonet lug and you now have a regular semi auto rifle.... Oooooooo the worlds safer without bayonet lugs and folding stocks isn't it Mr Clinton. | |
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