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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/26/2007 8:08:55 PM | Wasn't there a claim once that a forest in Siberia that was flattened was caused by a nuclear bomb also? The Tungunska incident... And if I remember correctly the "glass" found in the Egyptian desert was also claimed to have come from a nuclear explosion.(sorry can't remember where I heard that, might have been the program I watched) I believe the theory now for both events is that a meteor exploded above in the atmosphere above the ground causing the intense heat and concussion wave that could cause these things (flattened forests and natural glass). Obviously the one in Egypt was much larger and much longer ago, but the point is that a meteor can have a disastrous effect without actually impacting.
I apologize for not reading the whole thread... the above post just reminded me of hearing about that forest.. and then not long ago I saw a show on PBS about the egyptian desert glass. I don't remember reading anything in Indian literature about this, but I still have scads of it to go.
Peace | |
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Nergal
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Joined: 4/29/2007
Msg: 77 | |
| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/26/2007 8:31:58 PM | | Tungusta, I'm not sure of the spelling, wasnt it around 1918 or something. I read a lot of old stuff on it, claiming it was a spaceship crash, years ago. I saw the same show Raven a while back. I read a book years ago on the Mahabarat and a fictional account of it transposed to a sci fi basis. Its probably the same one Berlitz used for his. Its no different to Zeus throwing lightning bolts. Indian archaeology is dubious at the best of times. There is a guy claiming to have found a Golden City. | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/26/2007 8:46:29 PM | Tunguska Event: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event
Meteorite impacts can indeed produce glass spherules called tektites:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tektites
The desert glass could have been produced by an impact or a large airburst.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_glass
Certainly no need to propose a prehistoric Manhattan Project that left no trace of its existance... | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/28/2007 4:17:05 AM | just go to CNN archieve, and look up broadcast live reports from 12,000 years before. Be aware though the langauge will be probably archaic a little bit | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/29/2007 3:54:55 AM | I would have to say meteor or cometary strike, look up the tunguska event, very similar to what this text describes, 1,000 times as powerful as the bomb on Hiroshima now imagine something even larger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event
As for radioactive dust, even Chernobyl has cooled off in most areas, and that was 20 some years ago not 12,000. | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/29/2007 9:41:34 AM | | People are still dying in Hiroshima from radiation caused cancer, also Chirnobal is an area where radiation poisoning is still occurring but people still live in these areas because it is their home and they are poor and have nothing else. They could not afford protective clothing even if it was needed. They are also not well educated and probably do not even understand radiation and results of slow radiation poisoning. I believe in higher intelligence out there in the Universe and believe it could have been possible for some type of advanced weapon to have been discharged on Earth. If you believe in the Bible or ever read the Bible, the war between God and the rebelling Angel Lucifer was very intense and probably included very advanced weaponry of some sort. I think only the most ignorant dumb asses were left on earth when these superior beings left, excluding a few smart guys who got a little DNA like Einstein maybe. | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 2/3/2008 6:13:37 PM | | Your entire argument is based on logical fallacy. In fact, as far as I can tell, EVERY logical fallacy, most of them several times over. If you weed them out, you've got nothing left, and the arguments haven't changed one iota since the first post. | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 2/3/2008 10:45:09 PM | | He didn't do it with two lines, he simply referred back to his early arguments which destroyed your position. | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 2/4/2008 10:15:39 PM | They recently did a mathematical model of the Tunguska meteor and found it looked exactly like a nuclear explosion. It's around on the net someplace, I'll dig it up if you guys can't find it.
Desert glass is caused by lightening. It's cool stuff and there's a commercial market for it. Some poeple put lightening rods in the sand to make the stuff because of its value and tremendous beauty. It showed up in some movie too, but I can't remember details of it now; it was a while ago and other than this, unmemorable.
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 2/6/2008 2:31:48 PM | | One point. The refinement of natural uranium into weapon's grade plutonium does not require just a lab. It requires a facility the size of a town and with the power requirements of a medium sized city. Only about one half of one percent of the mineral is good enough and you need to refine tonns to get ounces. There may be many possible explanantions of the event, but I for one would just plain take this one off the table. | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 7/20/2008 2:49:30 PM | Wow, there seems to have been a lot of friction between the sides on this one lol. I've heard of the ancient text. I think that there might have been an explosion of such magnitude thousands of years ago as the result of a nuclear device, but there will never be a way to substantiate it. Did advanced humans that lived long ago create the device? It's possible, but if they were so advanced, why doesn't evidence of this advancement exist in the same area or near it? Synthetic fibers? Metal alloys of ancient origin? That kinda thing.
I like to keep an open mind. Sure, I've heard of Atlantis. You could argue that this vast empire, for whatever reason, destroyed something that was in what is now India 12,000 years ago and that the remaining technology of the empire sank beneath the ocean or was buried under tons of ice (Antarctica) and this is why there's no evidence of them. Possible? I think so, but you might as well forget about trying to convince anyone else that it is. My advice is to keep an open mind and develop your own opinion while not worrying so much about what others think regarding THIS subject.
Even if you could provide irrefutable evidence to someone from 1200's A.D. that the Sun is in the center of the solar system, he wouldn't believe it; not because it isn't true, but rather because he has it embedded within him that the contrary is the real truth (Earth is in the center). To go against that would require him to admit that he was WRONG about his belief, the everyone he knows is wrong about their beliefs as well, and that you have a better understanding of the subject than he does. That requires a lot of pride swallowing that just isn’t going to happen. I did read the translated version of those ancient texts for myself. For the record though, I have a gut feeling...that's all it really is, that a nuclear explosion did occur there, in India, 12,000 years ago. I don't think that it was a war necessarily, but an explosion (not a meteor) nontheless. I could never prove it, of course. Call it a hunch... | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 7/21/2008 2:13:12 PM | recall reading about this years ago before the net was active, still had the trolls and the flame warriors casting their spells
believe what you want to believe
if some place got nuked and sank, eg atlantis, going to be hard to find it now | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 7/21/2008 4:14:31 PM | These ancient civilizations had cold fusion power plants, advanced computers, flying cars, spaceships, and mile-high skyscrapers.
But they also had incredibly powerful weapons that destroyed everything and left no evidence of any of it. Sorry :( | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/11/2008 9:27:54 PM | Sorry I’m late but I found a similar story at the American Chronicle website: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/68842
“According to World Island Review, January 1992, a heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India was found which covers a three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists were investigating the site, where a housing development was being built.
For some time it has been established that there is a very high rate of birth defects and cancer in the area under construction. Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000 to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a half-million people. One researchers estimates that the nuclear bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.
The Mahabharata clearly describes a catastrophic blast that rocked the continent. "A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe...An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor...it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.”
Could Nuclear Weapons have been used in ancient times? Possibly. However, when we look back with our 21st Century goggles, there can’t be such a thing because only we are advance enough to make such things. So we are taught to believe by our mainstream educational institutions. Rather than education it is indoctrination that we received.
U-235 does occur naturally and known natural nuclear reactors have been found in Africa to be about 2 billion year ago. From NASA website: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap050220.html
Could it been possible that some dummy got hold of U-235 and made a simple nuke? To take out a city of 140,000 population about 64kg of U-235 is needed. By colliding two pieces of U-235 (no Plutonium needed) via some kind of chemical explosion using sulfur and pitch perhaps to achieve detonation, you have your very own fire and brimstone WMD. (Please don’t try to build this at home). Who knows? If they were smart enough to build the Pyramids then why can’t they build a nuke? Especially when the U-235 was available in Africa. Of course normally U-235 is only about 0.72% of Uranium and the majority is U-238 so it needs to be enriched by separating the U-235 from the U-238. About 85% or greater is necessary to achieve effective critical mass to annihilate above population, but even less about 3-4% is good enough to take out a city block or power a reactor like the ones at Oklo. The more U-235 you have the more effective it will be, like the one we drop on Hiroshima.
To announce to the world that they found a nuclear reactor would be like saying, I found a gold mine here come get it everybody. May be after it’s all gone. Well, the thing I got out of the thread is that some evidence suggest parts of India got nuked in the past as described in their ancient texts by whom I do not know, but modern India now have nukes. Known natural occurring (natural because no one back then is suppose to be that smart) nuclear reactors were found in Africa but all the U-235 have disappeared. It still amazes me how fast we went from a horse and buggy technology to nuclear technology in what about 100 years? Did someone find ancient schematics from ancient texts? Did Hitler’s scientists? Was Hitler searching for U-235 in Africa and if his top scientists didn’t become our allies would Hitler have used nukes against us? Also, why was there a rushed to go to the moon? Was it just to show off or retrieve more ancient technology left behind on the moon? Perhaps, someday they will tell us or not. But where are the evidences for an advanced civilization if they existed? Are we not digging faster or deeper than those who are burying it?
As for Oppenheimer, his quotes came from here I found: http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/n/nuclear_tunguska.html
“During a college lecture, Oppenheimer was asked: 'Was the atomic test at Alamagordo the first nuclear blast?' The student meant: Was there a U.S. program before Alamagordo? Oppenheimer answered: 'Yes, in modern times.' The creator of the A-Bomb meant: Our atomic program was the first, not counting the ancient nuclear wars of the distant past.”
As for Frederick Soddy, this is what he had to say. From http://www.scribd.com/doc/243173/Vimanas-King-Ravana-Ancient-Flying-Matchiens-II
Frederick Soddy (1877 - 1956) English born scientist. Studied in the
University of Oxford. From 1900 to 1902 and was Chemistry assistant in the
University of McGill, Montreal, where he co-worked with Rutherford. He
received in 1921 a Nobel Prize Laureate in Chemistry. He awarded the Nobel
prize in 1921 - ""for his contributions to our knowledge of the chemistry of
radioactive substances, and his investigations into the origin and nature of
isotopes" In 1903, with Sir William Ramsay, Soddy verified that the decay of
radium produced helium.
He had a great regard for the Indian epics of Ramayana and The Mahabharat. In 1909 when academics were first beginning to grasp the awesome
power of the atom, he did not take these ancient records as fable.
In the Interpretation of Radium (1909) he wrote these lines:
“Can we not read into them some justification for the belief that some former
forgotten race of men attained not only to the knowledge we have so recently won,
but also to the power that is not yet ours?” When Dr Soddy wrote the book, the atom-bomb box of Pandora had not yet been opened.
In 1909 when academics were first beginning to grasp the awesome power of the
atom, physicist Frederick Soddy wrote in his Interpretation of Radium: "I believe
that there have been civilisations in the past that were familiar with atomic
energy, and that by misusing it they were totally destroyed."
India does still possess an interesting artifact, an amazing iron pillar, which has withstood corrosion for 1,600 years. http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_ironpillar.htm.
I think some one once said that in order to maintain a slave society you must keep them ignorant, disarmed, and needy. Invent a world system to enslave them so that they are dependent on it for protection, provision, and propaganda. Keeping them from achieving their true potential via greed, war, and addiction. | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/12/2008 3:04:53 AM |
It *also* could be attributed to a meteor impact nearby - the only difference being the radioactivity... unless the meteor had a fair amount of uranium.
Well traveling through space and during planetfall an object can collect radiation relatively easy, think of all the radiation we get here on the surface of the planet, imagine how much hits the surface of a meteor with little to no protection. | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/12/2008 4:08:23 AM |
Well traveling through space and during planetfall an object can collect radiation relatively easy, think of all the radiation we get here on the surface of the planet, imagine how much hits the surface of a meteor with little to no protection.
"Exposed to radiation" and "radioactive" are very different beasts.
The more likely explanation is that the story is a complete fabrication, as no source material whatsoever can be found to corroborate the claims of a radioactive plain associated with ruins in that area. | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/12/2008 9:27:07 AM | Nuclear Radiation in a nutshell:
Yes, we are constantly being bombarded by cosmic radiation everyday, but not to worry because they are harmless to us. However, at the moment of nuclear detonation, many types of radiation are released such as alpha particles, beta particles, gamma rays and neutrons. The two most dangerous after a nuclear explosion are gamma rays and neutrons because they can easily penetrate matter even through lead. Alpha and beta particles are considered mostly harmless because they travel short distances (alpha travels about a few cm and beta about a meter) and can be stopped by clothing and skin. These only posed a serious danger if sufficient quantity is ingested or inhaled to cause radiation sickness over a period of time. At ground zero where nuclear detonation occurred, much debris is such up into the stratosphere and become contaminated with radioactivity, which then are carried by the wind as fallouts.
Radioactivity itself is not dangerous but the rays that are emitted. Uranium-235 has a half-life of about 700 million years and undergoes radioactive decay by emitting alpha particles. Again, alpha particles cannot penetrate the skin and are not dangerous unless eaten or constantly inhaled over a long period of time. If a nuclear weapon has been detonated over 10,000 years ago, no protective suit is necessary to work in the contaminated area. On occasion, gamma rays do accompany alpha decay but the dosage will be minimal unlike after the moment of recent detonation. | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/12/2008 9:44:49 AM | We should never casually dismiss the indoctrination we recieve as children. It seems almost ridiculous to me the notion that there have been advanced civilizations in the past... but when I reflect... why should it be so ridiculous? Given five thousand years or so... all that would be left of our culture is a bunch of dust.
Regarding the Siberia incident at the turn of the century.
I've heard two theories (though there are most probably more):
#1 Meteor: most likely theory
#2 caused by Tesla experiment. It is a fact that about the time that the explosion occured Tesla was pumping massive amounts of energy into the ground in an attempt to use the Earth's conductivity to send a message to the North Pole... the impact was pretty much in a straight line with Tesla's lab and the north pole... coincidence... probably.
Ozcam's Razor does not inform us as to what is true or not... it informs us as to what is probable or not... big difference.
OP...
I have to admit though that the depth of understanding regarding metaphysics recorded in the Vedas is astounding, they even have a concept similiar to Plank's constant, plus that passage you quoted is unnerving... who knows... | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/12/2008 10:56:55 AM | A mighty fine thread OP. Curious isn’t it. It has more than this humble slipper wearer and ole Julius as fans.
Julius Robert Oppenheimer "I am become Death, the destroyer / shatterer of worlds…"
Bhagavad Gita "Death I am, cause of destruction of the worlds..."
Yes, he was quoting from the Vedas and perceived the text above the lofty status of mere comic book. Unlike, well erm, some of yous.
When Oppenheimer was asked if this is the first nuclear explosion replied "Yes, in modern times"
What’s that you say landsat?
The Sarasvati & Drishadvati indeedy existed as the Vedas said..most amusing.
Whether Indra slew at there conception them (dams). Or, the glacial dams broke up naturally is open to debate. The mere mention in the Vedas of the above should push the origins of civilisation well back, more than fair bit ;) too oo at least 10-12k BP. And debunk the fans of the comic book theory.
As opposed to the bland established mainstream jibber jabber I didn’t buy into when I was 4. (and the only thing I don’t like about wiki - good site)
And as I don’t like to post a really long technical thingiemajigger reply…on account I sometimes make it all up ;) and lets face it almost no one ever reads em.
Ive omitted the rest which spake of ice ages, interglacial’s- severe upheaval, dynamics, olde testament ( I like to completely ignore the new testament-comic book theory), noted my Omission re meteors as they always seem to get blamed and I feel sorry for them..as well as the mayans. Older civilisation(s) who begat us and must surely be shaking there heeds at most of us……tooo
romance bucket loads …where I almost certainly lived happily ever after with a neophyte adorned in boots, above the knee or possibly a nice set of heels ;) feeding me icecream and muffins on the beach
cant beat a happy ending
eek edit So in short OP. Yes.
Personally I think a little further back in time to say eg 12k BP and before
And a big hello to all ancient texts inclusive olde testament, even the omitted ones eh enoch- astronomy fav un..its a good short read to the curious | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/12/2008 1:19:31 PM | I agree with OP, and Wicked Desires.
For the life of me,.. do not understand the arrogance of modern folk who believe in the preconceived model of history and prehistory.
I'm sure you're all clever enough to know that our pre history is so full of holes, and gaps,.. and based upon the theories of a few orthodox scholars with tenures to protect, and reputations too,.. that our knowledge is patchy. yet to hear some of you speak,.. you would imagine its all cut and dried.
To the 'show me the technology, show me the ruins' type of naysayers,..
The evidence is there, plenty of it,.. if you care to take your arrogant blinkers off and see it for what it is, with out pre conceived notions.
Remember, these events were before the last cataclysmic floods of the ice age,.. how much hard evidence do you expect to be left from such remote times? And yet, we have sites in the Sinai peninsula,. miles and miles of tekktites.. molten glass spread across deserts. in the Sinai, and in Egypt.. and corroborating texts in cuneiform from Sumeria, that talks of explosions from wars in the Sinai peninsula and in Egypt.
We also have the Veda's which gives us the same sort of stories, which are much older than 6k, by the way.. more like pre ice age meltdown.. more like 12k... and remember, these civilisations were reaching their end... who knows how much longer they were around.
We live in the ruins of an advanced technological past, look at the building methods of some of the South American structures,.. and Eygpt,.. some of which baffle modern engineers,.. and just think, the ruins of the coast of Cambay, near Gujerat, in India.. are now proof that that particular civilisation goes back to at least 9kBP. older than your Sumeria, and fertile crescent.
Who's to say that the Indian culture of the Veda's didnt have technology that we have not developed. Again,.. its arrogance to assume that all 'advancements' and technology must be exactly like ours.
Look at the fragile natue of our communications and data technology, our electronics. Tell me.. how much visible evidence do you think would be left of OUR civilisation after a catacysmic world flooding or other disasters after say 12k years? Not much, I imagine.
Its sheer foolishness, to ignore ancient texts as the writings of primitive peoples.. with no basis in fact. In 12k will our writings be taken seriously by the people around then? or will our technologies be thought of as mere stories,.. legends and myths.
We need to understand the Veda's, theyre our oldest oral traditions.. put it this way, a culture that could correctly calculate the speed of light, and other cosmological subjects,.. is surely not a 'primitive' culture by any definition.
Open your minds,.. dont be led like sheep by the few self interested orhodox sholars on pre history.
All you need to do is read the material,.. and look around, before you scoff at the OP.
G. x | |
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| Nuclear War 12,000 years ago?
Posted: 12/13/2008 4:31:38 AM |
a culture that could correctly calculate the speed of light
Good point there, Goodewitch, but I slightly disagree. It appears to be more specifically the calculation for the speed of free electrons rather than electrons in the form of photons. Nevertheless, why would anyone need to make such calculations?...Unless...they were working with atomic energy...can this be? Where and how can a primitive society obtain such knowledge? Atlantis? Very interesting, indeed. | |
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