| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:54:20 PM | | At this point, everyone who has health care is also paying for the 40 million that don't. The expenses are spread onto everyone else's. You talk about how "bad" socialized health care is, but the US is 17th in life expectancy and all 16 or at least most of them have socialized health care, so I strongly disagree with your assessment both as far as effectiveness and cost. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 5:54:23 PM | What are the malpractice percentages like in the US?
There are other examples I could provide, but I'm actually on my way to eat dinner, so I'll save them for a later post.
Don't we something like Healthy Kids which is free healthcare for kids here in FL?
My ex-was a little overweight prior to pregnancy, but she wasn't obese. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:05:02 PM | There has to be a middle ground somewhere on this! I don't know what the rates are in Canada now but, here in Japan I pay $600 a month for health care. If I get sick I'll go to the hospital and the government will cover 70% of my doctor's fee and 80% of my meds. I will wit on average 1 hour and the doctor will spend 5-10 minutes max assessing my problem.
On top of that if I need extensive treatment I may get a bad doctor and he/she may botch the treatment and I won't be able to go after them for malpractice.
malpractice
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=medical+malpractice+japan&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
hospitals rant
http://www.chronicsite.com/nihon/hospital.html
Now, I know you will say but, you're Canadian, you should be in favour of provincial healthcare and I would be if it were properly managed. It isn't! Political parties have sucked the surplus out of the system and used it for their own purposes and this has resulted in a shortfall! Same as in the US with Medicare and the Old age Pension System. FUBAR and much worse!
So, show me something that works, something that won't produce a John Q. Prove it out and show me proper oversight to keep some sticky finger political party from exploiting it and I'll think about it. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:07:30 PM | Medical malpractice is not a big problem. INSURANCE against medical malpractice is going against the ROOF!!!
Why?
Because insurance companies use the money they get from insurance payments to invest in the stock market to cover their commitments. In a dead economy like now under the Bush administration... purposely slowed down so the richest can buy everything up, stocks aren't earning dividends and they're not trading very well. To make up for that, the insurance companies have lobbied for ceilings on malpractice awards, which they've gotten in California, texas, etc....but what you'll find is that this has NOT stopped the insurance costs from rising and the year texas passed IT's law, there wasn't a SINGLE malpractice court award in that state!
Much of the high cost of medical care is due to 2 main problems: insurance and the high cost of drugs these days. Bush's bill for medicare puts no ceilings on drug costs and although originally said to be only a 350 to 400 billion dollar program, it's going to be more like 700 to 800... another corporate welfare deal... just like the north american missile defense system, which by the way is not only obsolete but has failed it's last 3 tests and we're on the hook for 1.7 trillion over 10 years... that's 170 billion a year folks... even more expensive than Iraq. If you think "liberals" were bad, think again. This idiot and his party are spending 400 billion more than they take in this year and have not failed to spend at least 200 billion more than they took in every year he's been in office.
Know where he gets the money?
He gives an IOU to the social security fund for one thing. That's why they say it's "insolvent". If they had the money from the IOU's written by republican presidents, there wouldn't be a cash flow problem. There is enough money from these IOU's to fund social security for the next 35 to 45 years. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:10:41 PM | dapi: the life expectancy in japan is higher than any other nation at 79.1 years. US is 75.
http: //www.eagle-min.com /faq/faq 85.htm
also, my employer pays over $800 a month for myself and 3 kids.
i rest my case. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:11:15 PM |
Same as in the US with Medicare and the Old age Pension System. FUBAR and much worse!
Come live in the U.S. for a few decades, then let's talk. The whole nation is FUBAR. Sure, nothing is perfect. I'm just trying to pick some place where everything is not f***ed up, as it is here. Shall I start my posting of statistics on comparisons between the U.S. and all other rich nations? It's quite eye-opening. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:11:39 PM | | in Canada I pay a grand total of about 40 dollars a month and can go see a doctor whenever i want without worrying about spending the rest of my life paying off the debt.Granted for elective surguries such as knee etc.which are deemed not as important there is a waiting list that at times runs 8 months or so.For anything deemed an emergency,i.e.heart problems etc. you go right in and again it costs you nothing.Beat that! | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:13:27 PM | I have a friend in Quebec who is a pediatrician. He b itches as much as my nephew here in the U.S. who is also a doctor. Doctors all bitch. I could type up here all the stuff my nephew bitches about. Your hair'd fall out by the time I'm finished.
The difference in health care between Canada and here is, that in Quebec, everyone has access to health care. Here in the U.S., they don't, because health care is considered a luxury here. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:17:32 PM | Saritamiami
let's see
Gov't Healthcare Available
Tokyo Japan
Singapore
Bangkok Thailand
Madrid Spain
Lahr Germany
Hamilton Ontario Canada
Ottawa Ontario Canada
Edmonton Alberta Canada
Banff Alberta Canada
Gov't Healthcare Unavailable
Los Angeles California USA
Mumbai India
Beijing PRC
Not in correct chronological order but they should suffice for a sample. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:17:57 PM | | In Hawaii I paid ~$300/month. Any doctor's visit was $7. To fill ANY perscription $7. Overnight stay in a hospital? Free. (Health Inusrance, unfortunately, is the only affordable thing in Hawaii). Damn I wish I had insurance like that here in Florida. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:20:26 PM |
The difference in health care between Canada and here is, that in Quebec, everyone has access to health care. Here in the U.S., they don't, because health care is considered a luxury here.
Not true, the federal gov't passed into law a while back a law stating that no person can be turned away for medical care. It's up to the individual whether or not they want to pay the bill (which by the way, if they don't pay does NOT end up on their credit report). | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:26:42 PM | which is why the rest of us have to pay it.... because some people can't afford it.
the Clinton's plan was for everyone to use their private insurance but everyone would pay into it... which would make all of it more affordable, as long as someone like Bush didn't come along and use it to throw money out the back of the US treasury to them as he did with the medicaire bill. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:26:56 PM | mildmildwest, I grew up in Germany. And they did not ever use 'alternative' types of medicine to try to cure illnesses, only mainstream Western medicine, like topical salves, antibiotics, etc. This was in the '60s, '70s and early '80s. Maybe later they started using more of the exotic/alt. medicine, like acupucture, et al, I don't know. I lived in G. for a few years in the early '90s. When I was pregnant, I went to a German doctor, who was excellent. I had my daughter in 1991, stayed in the hospital for a whole week (I had my tubes tied/cauterized) and the total cost of that Hospital stay was far less than two or three days would have cost in the US. I now live in Virginia.
Ninki | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:29:46 PM |
which is why the rest of us have to pay it.... because some people can't afford it
Exactly! US citizens are *already* subsidizing other people's health care indirectly anyway. Why not make it official?
Ninki | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:33:55 PM | In 1992, the German Gov't sent my wife to a beach because the salt water would supposedly "cure" her allergies.
In 1997, the German Gov't sent my wife to the medicinal "baths" in Bad Kreuznach. Both of these 2 week endeavours were all-inclusive, with exception of her meals. She said her family paid little or nothing for those excursions. Imagine the uproar that would cause in the US. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:39:22 PM | What are the malpractice percentages like in the US?
There are other examples I could provide, but I'm actually on my way to eat dinner, so I'll save them for a later post.
Don't we something like Healthy Kids which is free healthcare for kids here in FL?
My ex-was a little overweight prior to pregnancy, but she wasn't obese.
_____________________
1) Atrocious.
J Clin Pharm Ther October, 2000;25(5):355-61
"In a survey of over 28,000 patients, ADRs* were considered to be the cause of 3.4 percent of hospital admissions."
J Am Geriatr Soc December, 2002;50(12):1962-8
"Adverse drug reactions as cause of admissions in the elderly. Section of Gerontology and Geriatrics, Sticht Center on Aging, Wake Forest University-Baptist Medical Center, Winston Salem, North Carolina, USA."
JAMA. 1998;279:1200 and 1216
"Drug-related morbidity and mortality have been estimated to cost more that $136 billion a year in United States."
Pharm World Sci. December, 2003;25(6):264-8.
"The medication administration error rate was 14.9 percent. Dose errors were the most frequent (41 percent) errors, followed by wrong time (26 percent) and wrong rate errors. Ten percent of errors were estimated as potentially life-threatening.."
JAMA April 15, 1998;279(15):1200-5
"In 1994, an estimated 2,216,000 (1,721,000 to 2,711,000) hospitalized patients had serious adverse drug reactions (ADRs) and 106,000 (76,000 to 137,000) had fatal ADRs, making these reactions between the fourth and sixth leading cause of death.
Fatal ADRs accounted for 0.32 percent (95 percent confidence interval (CI), 0.23 percent to 0.41 percent) of hospitalized patients. "
3. Starfield B. Primary Care: Balancing Health Needs, Services, and Technology. New York, NY: Oxford University Press; 1998.
"12,000 -- unnecessary surgery
7,000 -- medication errors in hospitals
20,000 -- other errors in hospitals
80,000 -- infections in hospitals
106,000 -- non-error, negative effects of drugs "
4. World Health Report 2000. Accessed June 28, 2000
the United States ranks an average of 12th (second from the bottom) for 16 available health indicators. More specifically, the ranking of the US on several indicators was:
13th (last) for low-birth-weight percentages
13th for neonatal mortality and infant mortality overall
11th for postneonatal mortality
13th for years of potential life lost (excluding external causes)
11th for life expectancy at 1 year for females, 12th for males
10th for life expectancy at 15 years for females, 12th for males
10th for life expectancy at 40 years for females, 9th for males
7th for life expectancy at 65 years for females, 7th for males
3rd for life expectancy at 80 years for females, 3rd for males
10th for age-adjusted mortality
JAMA. 2000 Jul 26;284(4):483-5.
Is US health really the best in the world?
These total to 250,000 deaths per year from iatrogenic
_____________________
2) Healthy Kids is a subsidized insurance that not all poor kids are eligible for. Only a few are. There are requirements. The kids don't have access to complete health care, either.
________________
3) If there's a propensity to diabetes at all (gestational or not), a little overweight goes a long way towards making the pregnant person diabetic.
______________
*ADR: Adverse pharmaceutical drug reactions | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 6:55:52 PM | In 1992, the German Gov't sent my wife to a beach because the salt water would supposedly "cure" her allergies.
In 1997, the German Gov't sent my wife to the medicinal "baths" in Bad Kreuznach. Both of these 2 week endeavours were all-inclusive, with exception of her meals. She said her family paid little or nothing for those excursions. Imagine the uproar that would cause in the US.
Relieving stress alleviates a LOT of problems. Except for antibiotics, drugs alleviate symptoms, but do not cure diseases. They can, however, and do, kill. Go read my stats on allopathic drug treatment (treatment with chemical drugs). If you're the sort of person that believes that Pfizer Chemical has your solution in mind, I'm sure you weren't happy at all with them sending your wife to a health spa.
No doubt that when you're feeling uncomfy all you want is relief and you don't care how you get it. It reminds me of when I suddenly developed cystitis in Israel on what happened to be a long holiday weekend. I would've broken into a pharmacy for some meds.
We ought never confuse ourselves into thinking that meds are curative. They're poisons we introduce into our bodies to relieve some symptom, and hopefully temporarily only, as they are poisons.
Today, almost all medical schools in the U.S. have begun incorporating at least 1 class in organic and natural medical treatment (my nephew was one of the first to take one of these natural medical treatment classes in med school). The causes of pathological illness are many, and natural treatment cures many of those without the use of poisons and chemicals.
Also, allergies don't have to be, but can be related to stress. They can also be related to having been bombarded with chemicals in the direct environment one was raised in as a child (this is more common than people imagine). Allergies could have a lot of causes. I have allergies to grass, pines, pork and chocolate. I can be walking down the street and blow up when I'm exposed to grass. I also blow up when exposed to formaldehyde. Enough to make you want to go  | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 7:05:24 PM | | Saying all meds are poisons is a rather broad statement, isn't it? While you are right, pharmaceuticals do treat the symptom, not the disease, these same drugs do extend, and even make life comfortable for many people. I have no problem with holistic medicine, however, spending all that money on "de-stressing" trips rather than prescribing a very common salve (which completely removed the symptomology) seems very silly. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 7:07:10 PM | this is a loaded question as countries with national health care have problems...
yet so many americans are going without any type of health insurance.
I think it would be good in ways but bad in ways
good to make sure everyone has coverage
but will POSSIBLY bring down the quality of care...
not draw the best and brighest to becoem doctors since they will all be
paid the same...
hopefully a good plan could be created... because health care should not be a luxury.. that is rather inhumane in ways.
so... it is a consideration. Feel the kinks could be worked out.. if more people
were behind working on a workabale plan... and maybe this country could be a leader in a workable health care service to cover everyone... or at least at more affordable costs...
the prices of healthcare are high and medications too
drug companies are getting filthy rich on medication as the general popluation ages.. baby boomers starting to reach retirment age...
gonna be a big mess
or a lot of people will just die because they werent covered or unable to pay for meds and eat, pay bills... shesh... makes me dread getting old | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 7:16:15 PM | BTW, your stats are very enlightening, but do you have stats on how much money in malpractice is awarded?
Hmmm.. I'll look. I don't think there are statistics on every question that a human can conceivably ask, but I'll look anyway. How's that?
I will say this... family members of mine from Spain have commented that when one goes to the hospital in Spain, one gets examined and tested. When one is one of the few insured in the U.S. and goes to the hospital, one gets examined and tested, then examined and tested again, then examined and tested some more, then examined and tested again, and, just to be on the safe side, pumped full of drugs and surgically intervened.
Does it have anything to do with the U.S.'s health system being profit-motivated rather than health-motivated. I think the answer to that would be: DUH.
And of course, the odds of being a casualty increase the more sh*t they do to you.
On the other hand, we have those that have no insurance at all. They don't get any routine health care. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/20/2005 7:20:34 PM | I actually have no complaints with the US health system. I believe that the free market system applied to health care has helped to cultivate one of the most advanced, patient friendly medical systems in the world. The problem is that not everyone can make full use of it.
Does anyone else like the idea of the fed gov't regulating medical insurance premiums? | |
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