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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 6/17/2005 11:56:18 AM | I've hashed this argument around before.Nice to see it come up again.I've never lived in a place that had a national health care so I have nothing to compare the current US system with.I can say this though from experience.Something's got to give at some point.It's rapidly reached the point here where quality health care is something only the rich can afford.I would've never said that 18 years ago.I had a great HMO then.It's been watered down so much now,the only thing I can afford now is a cold.Then the prescriptions that aren't covered wipe me out.It's lose lose all the way around.
A couple of years ago I went to the doc for a recurring shoulder problem.He prescribed an MRI and sent refferred me to a specialist.A bean counter NOT a doctor somewhere in the chain of command rejected paying for the MRI because there was no evidence of a torn rotator cuff.I have a real problem with a system that allows bean counters to make medical decisions.
I've had to explain to my g/f from Canada about American attitudes and the hostility toward socialized anything.She still shakes her head over it. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 6/17/2005 5:30:23 PM | I hate the idea. I've been to countries that have national (read 'socialized') health care, and while it's great that anyone can go into a hospital for care, the quality of care is atrocious.
Crap!!!! The Canadian healthcare system is what American's commonly refer to as socialistic. The cost to employees and employers is nothing compared to what Americans pay for benefits which include healthcare. In Canada you pay for benefits that cover dental, perscriptions and optical only. There is no such thing as a copayment and the overall cost of any medical treatment is greater than 65% less. We do not have the amount of malpractice, prescription/doctor hopping, and lawsuits as the US has.
We dont wait for treatment any longer than you might for the same procedure in the US and when we do get it we don't get a bill, have to write a check, or wait and see if medicare will put a lein on my house if I can't pay it.
The fact that medicare or medicade whatever it is called can put a lein on an elderly person's home and then force the children into selling the home to pay off the lein is sickening. This is not freedom in my mind, this is a type of communism, one which only a select few get rich while the ones who work hard everyday of their lives suffer. If you cant afford to pay for medical in your old age, don't worry about it, its okay, your kids can pay it or declare bankruptcy.
Give me Canada and their medical system anyday.
I know my kids will inherit my house free of any debt from medicare/medicade. I know that I will get the best medical treatment available when I need it and that my kids will never have to pay a dime. I'm proud to be Canadian and I am very grateful for our medical system. Having spent the last 2 yrs in the US has only made me realize what a great system we have and I will always fight to keep it just as it is. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 6/17/2005 5:41:58 PM |
I've been to countries that have national (read 'socialized') health care, and while it's great that anyone can go into a hospital for care, the quality of care is atrocious.
I've lived in Israel and Spain, both of which have universal health care, and both systems of health care are awesome. I've been treated by universal health care doctors in Great Britain and Finland for emergencies and treated quite nicely. 
I haven't lived in Canada, but I get the feeling that the system of health care in Canada is (for the middle class) far superior to what's available in the U.S. for the middle class (which often is no health care at all).  | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 6/17/2005 6:04:54 PM | Canadian healthcare is better for all concerned, upper,middle or lower class, regardless of nationality.
EX. american child on vacation in canada
breaks arm
2 emergency room visits (break so bad had to take to childrens hospital)
5 xrays, cast, and 2 slings
total 390 canadian, approx 300 american
child returns home goes to nemours childrens clinic to have cast removed
1 xray,
1 hospital
no emergency
no cast
1 sling
total bill 798 american
There is something seriously wrong with a system that allows its citizens to be gouged for medical care like that.
The amount in Canada was for a non citizen.
OH Yeah
The father had benefits and his benefits refused to pay the hospital direct, he had to pay, wait for a reciept from the 2 hospitals and then submit them to his insurance company.
How horrible, the problem is that americans know no other system, so it is only natural that they would think that something so much better must be terrible.
It is an incredible system, that lowers the cost of healthcare without jeopordizing the care. It is beneficial to all and benefits supplied by the companies are to the employees benefit and the insurance providers are making money because they are spending less per insured.
Plain and simple the system works, to say it doesnt is either simple ignorance or you have something monetary to lose in this system. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 9/5/2005 6:08:19 PM | | In the meantime, I propose BASIC HEALTHCARE for children, working adults, and the disable or elderly. Basically this would be for the 50% of the population who works and isn't covered. Its as much a humanitarian project as one to keep society working. Make it easier by starting local non profit hospitals, who cant be sued all the time. I currentlly get discounted healthcare from a local free clinic, I am so grateful, I dont think I could sue. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 9/5/2005 8:52:25 PM | I support the Veterans Hospitals as a bona fide bugetary item. I am opposed to socialized medicine generally, but do suggest that universal military service, including males and females alike, such as what occurs in Switzerland and Israel, would make a lot more people eligible for VA Hospital benefits, because they were earned.
Except for the disabled, aged, blind, and those who society owes a Samaritan duty to for medical care on a long term basis, I am opposed to the government providing at the taxpayers expense, particularly for those who would rather run to Canada than to serve in the military.
If a person is not a military veteran, is able bodied, the government owes you nada when it comes to health care. Thats what private insurance and a steady job is for.
So if you are a lifetime smoker and need healthcare for your heart problems, emphasema, or lung cancer; or if your kidneys need dialysis and you just never got around to serving your country in uniform, my suggestion is to have provided yourself with a very good health care program.
The Bible says that the idler shall not eat the worker's bread; Veterans Hospitals are for those who served in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, or Coast Guard.
If you are able bodied, there is absolutely no reason to skip serving one hitch in the military and upon discharge, be eligible for the GI Bill to pay for your college, the VA Mortgage to let you buy a home with nothing down, and also lifetime access to the VA Medical Centers.
Except for the disabled, every man Jack and woman Jill in America should make a material contribution to their citizenship by enlisting for one term in the military.
Even helps you grow up.
So its easy to tell which fish didnt bother to serve, too. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 9/5/2005 9:46:00 PM | The Bible says that the idler shall not eat the worker's bread; Veterans Hospitals are for those who served in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, or Coast Guard.
Holy moly, Legal Wizard! Are you a MORMON? You just pulled that quote from a Mormon book called, Doctrine and Covenants:
“The idler shall not have place in the church, except he repent and mend his ways” (D&C 75:29). He also commanded, “Thou shalt not be idle; for he that is idle shall not eat the bread nor wear the garments of the laborer” (D&C 42:42).
If you are Mormon, that would explain a great deal about what you stand for, and now I understand your punitive nature. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 9/6/2005 5:09:54 PM | “The idler shall not have place in the church, except he repent and mend his ways” (D&C 75:29). He also commanded, “Thou shalt not be idle; for he that is idle shall not eat the bread nor wear the garments of the laborer” (D&C 42:42).
Oddly enough a similar quote is found in the Communist Manifesto."He who doesn't work shall not eat".Or some such. | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/25/2008 1:18:43 PM | To be fair, I haven't seen most of this thread, so I'm sorry if I repeat stuff that's already been said.
The United States has had many breakthroughs in medical science since the dawning of the silicon age. How many medical breakthroughs has the medical system in Spain had?
I don't know much about Spain's contributions to health care in general, but I do know that Canada has an accessible, publicly administered program which DOES boast numerous medical contributions. As an example, the University of Calgary (Alberta) Tom Baker Cancer Centre are leaders in cancer care, research, and treatment. Also, UofC are leaders in Neurological Research. As recently as January 2008, they published findings of nerve regeneration (eg. post-spinal cord injury) guided by computer chip.
You know where I come from, Tally, so you know I'm not trying to stir the pot just cuz I can. I just don't think it's fair to say that the US has 'this' type of health care system as opposed to 'that' type of system, so therefore the US must have the best professionals in health care. It's true there are MANY medical professionals raised, trained, and working all over the world who are sought after for skills and experience (that's the unfortunate status of the industry in 2008).
Prinnie
(Sorry to all if that made no sense... stepping off the soap box now.) | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/25/2008 1:22:55 PM |
I propose BASIC HEALTHCARE for children, working adults, and the disable or elderly.
Not that it applies to me, but what about at-home parents (of a one- or two-parent household)? Aren't they entitled to those benefits? Just something to think about.
Prinnie | |
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| National Health Care? Is it for the USA?
Posted: 5/29/2008 8:38:54 AM | The National Health service in Britain is the best in the world without exception. When someone needs help they get it regardless of cost. Thats what a health care system should be like. In any civilised country it is hard to imagine any other system that could be considered. The ability to pay for treatment never comes into it. We also have private health care for those who prefer it but when you get there it's mostly the same doctors and nurses you could have had for free just a little bit more privacy.
I would love to see Britain opening up more NHS hospitals around the world and providing this service for all people in the commonwealth or in Africa for those who currently don't have such facilities. If that means we pay more taxes, so be it. It is our responsibility to take care of those who need taking care of because we know that one day it will be us. Kind of gives you an inner peace knowing that. | |
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