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Posted: 12/5/2007 7:26:57 AM | | I guess this "christian " never heard the story of the prodigal son...The one who is lost first..tasted life, than finds their way back..is loved the most... | |
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Posted: 12/5/2007 8:20:56 AM | Count Ibli: I suggest that you come into the period of grace. We are no longer under THE LAW so your snide suggestion that the OP stone her daughter to death is done away with.
"But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, 'Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?' They were using this question as a trap in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, 'If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.' Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?'
'No one, sir,' she said.
'Then neither do I condemn you,' Jesus declared. 'Go now and leave your life of sin'" (John 8:1-11 NIV).
Count Ibli: May I suggest that you concentrate on the New Testament, particularly the book of Galatians, so that you understand that "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.' He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit...The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advanced to Abraham: 'All nations will be blessed through you.' So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith" (Galatians 13-14, 8-9 NIV).
Justacheckin: I do not believe in "spiritual warfare" in the sense that Satan and the demons have free reign to do whatsoever they desire to the people of God. I believe in the sovereignty of God. That means that God rules Creation and all of His creatures including Satan and the demons.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding your position. The Bible does not teach that Satan has limitless power. It teaches that Satan walks about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. It teaches us to be on guard against his temptations. It calls him the prince of the power of the air. It even goes so far as to call him "the god of this world." But it never says that Satan is sovereign over this world. No one has to obey him. He is "the accuser of the Brethren" and the tempter, but temptation can be resisted.
I think you should look at Job 1 and 2 to notice a few key points. In Job 1:8 it is GOD who brings Job to the attention of Satan, "Then the LORD said to Satan, 'Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil" (NIV). Job wasn't even on Satan's radar until God put him there.
Then the conditions of the test are set by God: "The LORD said to Satan, 'Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger'" (Job 1:12 NIV).
This is repeated in chapter two, verses 3 and 6. God is sovereign over Job's trial. Satan can go "this far and no farther" by God's decree.
I believe that you need to analyze Jesus' encounters with demons in the Gospels. In every instance, they obeyed instantly when Jesus commanded them to come out of a person. There was no argument because they had to obey a higher authority. They knew who Jesus was as it says in Mark 5:
"When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him. He shouted at the top of his voice, 'What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you won't torture me! For Jesus had said to him, 'Come of this man, you evil spirit!'" (Mark 5:6-8 NIV).
I agree that the Apostles had the authority to drive out demons in the name of Jesus. However, Jesus puts this in pespective in Luke 10:
"The seventy-two returned with joy and said, 'Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.'
He replied, 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven'" (Luke 10:17-20 NIV).
No, the spirit realm is with us to this day. However, I do believe that demonic activity was intensified in Jesus day because "the time was at hand" for the Messiah to appear.
I believe there are two major mistakes Christians make regarding Satan and the demons: 1.) Denying their existence; 2.) Being obsessed with them.
Finally, I believe that God is the God of His People and THEIR CHILDREN. That means that God, according to my belief structure, is in covenant relationship with the OP and her two children. One of her children may be in a time of rebellion, but because of their mother's faith, they are still holy to God. God will not allow them to be totally controlled and dominated by Satan. See 1 Corinthians 7:14. | |
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Posted: 12/9/2007 8:18:54 AM | If someone would of told me that about my daughters when they were teens I would of had to wait a few seconds then twist my face into some awful expression,
try to drool as I was making all kinds of grunts and moans.
make my fingers into claws then look at them and say.
"I've been waiting for you" while making jerking motions with my head since it won't do a 360
Chase them out the door and then laugh my backside off at them. | |
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Posted: 12/9/2007 9:35:48 PM | The person who said that to you is obviously wack.
I'm 18 now, but when I was 16, I was soooo horrible at times. Just impossible. when people tell you they're going thru a phase, they are. I went thru mine, and it actually embarrasses me to recall how snotty I was. Just give your daughter time, love her, not her actions, and be consistant.
<3 good luck | |
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Posted: 12/10/2007 4:11:58 PM | I am not a religious person and I don't begrudge people their beliefs. If you have something you believe and that makes you feel good, happy and have faith etc. I say bravo!!
Now, I only have a 4 yr. old daughter so I have time still before I have to deal with the rotten teen years, but blaming your daughter's behaviour on the "devil" is ludicrous.
I am in no way intending to offend anyone and I apologize ahead of time if I do, but it seems to me that that type of comment is coming from someone who has an excuse for every mistake or wrong decision they have made in their lives. Doesn't seem to me like they take resposibility for their own actions. Its always easy to say "oh, well I did that because of so and so" or "so and so made me do it" but there isn't enough "well, I did it because I was stupid" To blame bad mistakes on the "devil" seems like a cop out to me because you always have that to fall back on in times of trouble.
Your daughter is young, she's experimenting with her life in the age of high school. I was the same way, many people are. Hopefully she'll grow out of it quickly but just know that eventually she will.
Good luck. | |
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Posted: 1/7/2008 7:00:59 AM | I am rather agnostic and to hear people blame things on the devil is simply masquerading their own flaws as parents.
Hell, dont blame the devil, blame god for not providing better guidance.
Parents lie to their children from birth, upon which I believe, as they age, they realize the inaccuracies.
I have a daugther approaching teendom and over her life, I have never lied to her, told her truths; my theory is that I will have 12 years of her knowing that what I say is accurate and if given advice, enough of a track record of accuracy exists for her to make a quality decision.
To blame the devil is pathetic, a cop out. | |
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Posted: 1/7/2008 8:28:06 AM | Ask your friend what part of the bible he's going by that leads to the conclusion that the devil is controlling your daughter. If he tries to change the subject or avoid the question, tell him you think the devil is controlling him and forcing him to tell these lies. Go on to ask if everyone at his church are controlled by the devil or if he's the only one. If he's the least bit agitated by that conversation, tell him that you're using his bullsh*t against him and that if he had a shred of caring for Jesus he wouldn't make up lies from the bible and impose it on others.
Every moment spent blaming your daughter's behaviour on satan/santa/easter bunny/etc is a moment ignoring the real problem. Perhaps she's got something on her mind, perhaps she's just rebellious, perhaps there's something there that can be discovered by a parent that has the strength, caring, and diligence to discover it. | |
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Posted: 1/7/2008 9:59:57 AM | First of all, theres no such thing as the devil.
That is an archaic supernatural belief not appropriate for anyone
living in the West in the 21st century.
You daughter definately sounds out of control, but she is a teenager.
and some have a harder time getting through the tempest of that
stage than others. The trick is to get them through that time without
doing something that will haunt them for the rest of their lives.
I think it depends on individual personality.
What she sounds like she needs is peer counseling and direction.
Religion is actually a good mechanism for directing those energies
if you can her involved. Bring her to one of those new age Christian
churches with all the bell ands whistles. They are more like casinos
than churches complete with rock bands. The trick is to find something that
will give her direction. | |
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Posted: 1/7/2008 6:16:06 PM |
drinking , smoking weed....my daughter is being controlled by the devil
yeah, satan is a HUGE party animal. | |
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Posted: 1/8/2008 5:45:08 PM | I was speaking to this one person (who is very christian) Please forgive the sidetrack doll, but all those who have put their faith in Christ are equally Christian, none being more Christian than the other. More mature in Christ perhaps but no "more" or "very" Christian.  ~Moving on.
but yes can anyone tell me ... is this true ? is this what Christians really do blame all the bad on the devil and all the good on god ...
Your question is more Theologically deep than either of us know, bet that doll.
However, I can tell you that all good things and perfect gifts come from God.
All evil, death and destruction is of Satan. John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.
It is not that I as a Christian place blame or accredit God but the Holy Bible teaches these principles.
Do I think that your child is of Satan? That is a tall order, doll. Some people freely speak about such things lightly, when they should be more careful to accredit either to any work, knowing that Spiritual things can only be Spiritually discerned.
My advice (as a mother of two teens who are  and  ) keep them close to you emotionally, close to God spiritually (by keeping her in church) and pray for her, which is the single most powerful thing you can do for her.
but if they blame everything they do wrong on the devil isnt that like saying . oh its not my fault No no and no.
No? How bout' no?
If one is manipulated by Satan they are either nonbelievers (having fault by rejecting Christ) or believers lead by their own evil, fleshly desires. Either way, they are equally responsible. But that was not your primary question, to my understanding. Again, this question is very Theologically deep, doll. | |
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Posted: 1/8/2008 9:35:23 PM | but if they blame everything they do wrong on the devil isnt that like saying . oh its not my fault
Bsically its like saying they blame everything on the easter bunny.I suggest you sit down and talk to them praying is fine.However and just my opinion praying alone does absolutely nothing actions speak louder then words.My apologies to the deeply religious out there. | |
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Posted: 1/8/2008 9:48:45 PM | | OP: Only the ignorant self-proclaimed Bible-thumpers are such a way. There are many Christians who understand the reality of things and aren't looking behind every corner for the devil. Such a statement is irresponsible on stupid on your friend's part. | |
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Posted: 1/8/2008 10:44:46 PM |
close to God spiritually (by keeping her in church)
Hmmm. Sounds precisely like how my family decided to "help" me in my teen years. The doctors said "Bipolar Disorder", but my family determined that the professionals were incorrect, and forcing me to go to church would fix the problem. Well, it did: I learned to recognize the massive ethical problems within the church as well as the inconsistencies within doctrine. So yes: if you want to help your daughter escape the mental conditioning that turns otherwise thoughtful, considerate, decent people into arrogant **stards, then by all means continue to force her into church and insist that any behavior you do not deem acceptable is solely the result of Satan.
Or, you can actually help rectify the problem by putting her- or yourself- or both- into therapy to determine the cause of the problems and possible solutions that don't dehumanize your own flesh and blood. That might work, too. Or perhaps you could learn to accept that your offspring are not little versions of you, and capable of making their own decisions even if such decisions are not to your liking.
but yes can anyone tell me ... is this true ? is this what Christians really do blame all the bad on the devil and all the good on god ...
You're catching on.
Blaming Satan removes all personal responsibility. If a person does something bad, it is their fault and nobody else's. Blaming some entity that may or may not exist does not solve the problem or prevent it from reoccurring.
If one is manipulated by Satan they are either nonbelievers (having fault by rejecting Christ) or believers lead by their own evil, fleshly desires.
I don't even know where to begin with this. So I won't.
but yes can anyone tell me ... is this true ? is this what christians really do blame all the bad on the devil and all the good on god ... .. i tried to explain to him that as yes i do beleive in god and i am religious but i also beleive that he gave us free will to choose ... we make our mistakes we are aware of right and wrong good and bad ... the final of it all is have we learned and what we learned ?
That is remarkably wise of you, OP. When one blames all their misdeeds on someone else: what do they learn? Nothing.
When one accepts responsibility for their misdeeds, what do they learn? Responsibility sucks. Therefore, it is best avoided by not repeating those same actions.
Classical conditioning. Nothing more. | |
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Posted: 1/8/2008 11:15:33 PM | Trip, your presence leaves me half armed, being an unfair battle. (Unfair dude, come on!)
Hmmm. Sounds precisely like how my family decided to "help" me in my teen years. The doctors said "Bipolar Disorder", but my family determined that the professionals were incorrect, and forcing me to go to church would fix the problem. In the words of a wise man:
I don't even know where to begin with this.
The fact that your family had the inability to see that Scripture does not dismiss a physician's diagnosis, and lack of wisdom to see that forcing any child to attend services will rebel against its message, has so little to do with OP that I'm left confused...
Or, you can actually help rectify the problem by putting her- or yourself- or both- into therapy to determine the cause of the problems and possible solutions  There are Christian Therapist as well. (my advice was free, though.
Blaming Satan removes all personal responsibility. Accrediting Satan to his own works does not alleviate those who contribute, doll, and as I said, no man (or gal such as myself) who rolls with Lucifer will remain innocent. | |
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Posted: 1/10/2008 4:42:52 AM | Diva,
I just wanted to share some things. Didn't read through all the posts but do concur and hold Christian understanding and belief as outlaid by JustCheckin and And Can It Be.
Let me give a little testimony. I am a Christian going on a little over a year. I wasn't raised in a Christian home, parents far off from God. I didn't even really hear much about God growing up or Jesus. I'm 29 now and had lived a life full of confusion and sorrow before becoming a Christian.
Here's what I've learned- God is in control of it all. He calls us to Him, dependent on various factors. We accept this gift of salvation by confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior and then God supernaturally gives us a new heart, claiming us as His beloved children, and providing instuctions on the proper way to live(bible). The Holy Spirit is a gift from God too that is given to every new believer and is the only source to truly discern what the Word of God says. Otherwise when someone not yet a Christian reads the bible, it is always distorted to some degree.Even after becoming a Christian, God is purifing the person and the Word of God is interpreted at different levels based mainly on how much God has restored.
I was very rebellious, lacked any discipline from adults, and was left without much attention. As a male, my father was not there physically or emotionally and this leads to lots of problems,insecurity, passivity, lack of confidence, arrogance,etc. God has revealed through healing and His Word about what the aforementioned guys have related, that coupling the inherited bad or evil heart and free will we come into the world with, if there's a lack of God's wisdom, then more than likely the decisions we will tend to make are not wise and open the door for Satan's influence and further possible strongholds. The more the enemy, devil, evil force- all interchangeable names, plays a role, the further hurt,pain,and affliction is caused to the individual, loved ones, and those in their immediate path.
I was a pretty severe case, only because no knowledge of God was given in my childhood/mid adult years. So I go off and make very bad decisions with Satan having a little bit of say in the situations but mainly I was giving him right to my soul (mind,body,emotions) based on ignorance of God's way and subsequent unwise decisions. I talked non stop in school, got expelled in high school, and started to not really care about much aboyt things. Motivation dropped, desire left, and it took others to make me do stuff. A life devoid of God through Jesus Christ leads to destructive results as Scriptured and I was just starting out down the long lonely road. I had a big overbite and by middle school, the kids subjected to calling names and picking. That's how the devil gets a foothold, first he takes advantage of God not being in someone's life, then takes a shortcoming life buck teeth and influences others to try and ultimately drive the victim into despair,hoplessness, and even possible death. It's a compunding effect over the course of one's life and in the spiritual sense, it's primarily the specific person's decision making that is left to blame. I was also raised co dependent, meaning I was underdeveloped emotionally and relied in part on my mom to get me through life as she created soul ties with me in not having the knowledge of how to successfuly raise a child as God designed. When she was absent, I suffered tremendously much without insight to what was happening. These things are not seen when going on in one's life but is truth discovered after being connected back to God. To spare time, I could list many other actual decisions,consequences, and explainations of all the wrong choices I've made but I think you probably have the gist of what is going on and where it leads. Through not having much direction,being unfulfilled, and caught up in many strongholds, it got to a point where my thoughts were influenced towards suicide and it took the hand of God to swoop me up out of the mess. I had settled for death but God showed He had different ideas and a better purpose.
I should add that Satan once was a commander of God's army of angels,wasn't satisfied, and rebeled trying to be like God.He is now relentlesly intent on taking out anyone of His creation after knowing and experiencing the once great glory,majesty,and awesomeness of Almighty God. There was war in heaven and not to go too far off into the redemptive plan-God sent Satan temporarily down to the earth, giving him limited power over everything stopping at Jesus' shed blood, only until Jesus second coming and more rolling out of God's plan.
Prayer is a big thing and huge weapon to turn things around in the unseen spirirual world in opening up a person's rebellious heart to the things of God.
What I spoke of is supernatural, not controlled by human ideas or desires, but is a process of God that happens at different stages in everyone's life.I check the boards periodically as I'm sure there's fellow Christians available to assist where needed. | |
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Posted: 1/25/2008 7:40:11 PM | What a great testimony Brian.......I would like to say being tempted by satan and being possesed by satan are two different things....we has christians are tempted daily....and closer we walk with God....the harder it gets...in other words the more temptations....It is like satan works over time to distract us from doing what God wants us to do...
Like a story I once heard....their was this man , he had two dogs...one named Spirit and one named Flesh....they were fighting on day...and a friend ask the man which one wins??..The man replied the one I feed the most.....
We must as Christians get our daily nurtrition of the Word of God and pray continously...in order to defeat the evil one (satan)
Now some of that good ole nurishment from God's Word (the Bible) Proverbs 22:6 Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it....Now here it doesn't say your child will not rebell (or sin)....or depart from it (leave it all together)...He says turn....we all have children from time to time...that want to spread their wings.....but as long as we train them according to God's word.....they will in time hear that "Still Small Voice" and turn around and come back.....We as adults do that also....We know what is right...but sometimes we rebell and try to work things out our way and not God's way....but when we realize we are down a deadend road...then we turn back to God.....
Another Scripture I hold on too is Proberbs 19:18~19 Discipline your son (or daughter), for in that there is hope, do not be a willing party to his (her)death..A hot tempered man must pay the penalty, if you rescue him (her), you will have to do it again...
Angel | |
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| rebelious teens
Posted: 1/26/2008 2:27:49 AM | | I have always heard the devil tempts people to do things,buthe dont make them do it. | |
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Posted: 1/26/2008 10:31:49 AM | | Yes arieann...I believe that the devil tempts us but doesn't make us do anything.....Angel | |
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Posted: 1/26/2008 12:37:28 PM | Although any family can be blessed with a defiant teen daughter, it seems more common for single mothers to have them the worst. With father absent and mother often in an unsettled life, it seems they put themselves on the fast track to adulthood and independence and the cool naughty things that go with that. Standing back and offering advice though it may be unheeded works better than standing in their way and threatening punishment I've found.
Suggesting to her she might be under demonic influence and should surrender to the will of God will be spurned faster than Brussels sprouts by someone during that stage of life. It will be your image, guiding behaviour and quiet belief in God as a parent that will remain in her memory when she eventually graduates to the miserable world of adults. | |
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Posted: 1/26/2008 3:00:21 PM | | Diva.....the cause of teenage rebellion may be disputable.....viz "natural" versus "supernatural" explanations......but the bible is quite clear on your duty as a parent! Read Deuteronomy 21:18-21 and invite all the men of your city to a stoning party. This injunction only applies to rebellious sons....daughters don't seem to rate a mention, but then again....chattels rarely do. | |
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Posted: 1/26/2008 6:52:41 PM | Oh for pete's sake!
Rebellion in teenagers is so natural I would be concerned about a kid who didn't buck the rules just a little. They are trying out their independance and seeing what fits for them, as people in their own right. In most cases coming down hard on them will only drive them farther away.
It's a tough road being a parent and realizing that this person you have cherished for so long is now trying to be AS UNLIKE YOU as possible. It's kind of a slap in the face now, isn't it?
Our job as parents is to DETACH from our children emotionally.. as a part of ourselves, and learn to take them as individuals who won't always listen to us, even though WE know we want only the best for them. But what IS best for them? At 16.. we can't tell anymore... not really. They might even HATE us for a while. It hurts...a lot. But we do not own them, and that is an easy thing to forget.
When it comes to self-destructive behavior, ultimately it is up to them to make the decision not to go down that road... but they still need us to be there. Remember when your child was about 3? They SO wanted independence from you... NO! was their favorite word... and they's try all sorts of things you didn't want them to, and got hurt sometimes in the process... then they'd run back and crawl on your lap with their thumb in their mouth and be that sweet dependant little baby again, for a while, until the urge to strike out again hit... and off they'd go. This is the same thing... only on a deeper level. If we don't condemn them and remain there for them and offer what we can, they will come back when they feel hurt and symbolically crawl into our lap again, to recoup and gain the strength to get up and try again. THAT's our job, to BE there for them when they need us... not to direct their choices. IF we have done our job up to this point they will already have learned how to think for themselves, and to take responsibility for themselves.. if we have sheltered them from reality, or haven't given them the opportunity to make choices and pay the consequences of those choices.. well then the kid is not as well prepared for the real world as they could be and our job becomes harder.
When things get scary.. and you feel that your child may be beyond his/her depth... sure, I would think mutual therapy might be a good idea... being a friend to them, without giving up your authority in your home is about as much as you can really do. The rest is up to the child who is on the brink of adulthood.
Most of all... love them, let them know you believe they can handle anything that comes their way constructively, and let them know you are there for them.... but the home still has rules. If addiction is an issue do whatever it takes to get them clean... but it's pretty natural for a teenager to try alcohol and drugs at some point, most grow out of it, get jobs and start families not long after teenhood.
As for the whole "devil" thing...hogwash, teenagers have been the bane of every generation since the beginning of time, but enough (most) seem to live through it to begin the next generation.. and the funny thing is - the idealism that comes with young adulthood is something terrible to lose. | |
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Posted: 1/27/2008 5:05:03 PM | | I not christian anymore but I do believe demons can get you to do things but they don't really control you entirely. You have enough brains to know what is wrong and right. Even in buddhism they talk about demons. The demon of lust is one that is talked a lot in buddhism. In buddhism people tend to meditate, beware of thoughts coming up and being mindful when doing things. It is not a blame game, just because you can't see demons doesn't mean it's not there. | |
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| rebelious teens
Posted: 1/31/2008 10:34:44 AM | Praying is great, if you think that everyone in the plane crash forgot to pray that morning.
However, rebellious teens are rarely interested in what God has to say on the subject. God helps those who help themselves. I don't think that's actually in the Bible, but it definitely should be. The Devil is simply a euphemism for temptation or evil. There is no guy with hooves who is able to tap into our psyches and push our buttons. Think about it...have YOU ever heard him? And if you have, I have someone who you really SHOULD see! Here's something to think about. Who was the first tempter? Who made Lucifer fall? We all have our own devils, but they are internal. Your daughter needs your strength, guidance, forbearance, patience, discipline, understanding and wisdom. It's called parenting. Read up, get help from real people. Asking for supernatural guidance is a cop-out when you require a lot of the real thing. Every teen goes through the stage but we make the difference as to how it goes on all else around. | |
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Posted: 1/31/2008 11:02:24 AM | Brian Lovett,
It comes as no surprise that you're an avid Christian. You said it yourself: "...was left without much attention. As a male, my father was not there physically or emotionally and this leads to lots of problems,insecurity, passivity, lack of confidence, arrogance,etc."
You clearly needed something to fill the gap. Too bad your father didn't ground you in reality instead of leaving you to escape into the supernatural/unseen world. God is certainly a powerful surrogate father figure. Temper your belief with this understanding. It's important to understand that our beliefs are more built on insecurities, fears and needs than on the reality of the idea. We need to rely on the real, and hey, augment it with your personal ideas, but remember, it's your Faith that gets you through, not that there really has to be a super-being on the other end of the line, actually listening and helping.
I say this not to tear away at your belief but because we all need to know that God does not conduct reality, but we (every one of us, together) do. I wish the time and money spent on Gods was put to the use of the truly needy. God whether real or not, does not need our coin. | |
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Posted: 2/12/2008 11:17:38 AM | OMG i think an excorsisum is in order .lol
lucky we dont live in the dark ages she would be burned at the cross
DEVIL = scapegoat ever wonder why the human rendition of the devil has horns and little goat horns not big moose horns
this too shall pass . gracefully with peace, love ,and understanding
not so gracefully with blame and condamnation
  is the key | |
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