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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall Posted: 12/15/2007 8:02:36 PM |
I had already tried as a youth to enlist in the [Armed] Forces as an officer cadet, which would have allowed me to enter the arsenal and precede Lortie in a rampage. They refused me because of asociality.
What'd he mean by that? I never heard it used that way before.
That's why these type of incidents won't ever be eliminated in society, where people have access to firearms. The only hope of reducing them is to make sure the things that cause these young minds to snap (and they are most common to young people) are reduced in some way, and that we work together in society to reach out to them long before they start on this path to madness.
As I keep repeating , even in Quebec we've had four such shooting rampages - even with strong gun control. This proves gun control is of rather limited value in stopping these events.
Exactly! Remember that even a mentally ill mind can make good nonlethal decisions a majority of the time. Which is why I said what I did back on page 2 about how we should teach kids how to properly vent.
Then someone attacked my argument saying it shouldnt be the schools job. But so what, we do this with STDs! Anything that has the potential to be a threat to society as a whole is always dealt with through education. What is wrong with that? Especially if teaching kids proper outlets to vent saves lives!
In my school it was the cop that brought us out and taught us to shoot via afterschool firearm safety. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall Posted: 12/16/2007 1:28:56 PM | Gun control laws don't work. If you criminalize gun ownership, only criminals will have guns. "Gun Free Zones" equal "Defenseless Victim Zones". Ben Franklin said " An armed society is a polite society." If concealed/carry was permitted at Columbine, Virginia Tech, or various malls throughout the US, we'd have a lot less shootings happening. The ones that might still happen wouldn't have near the bodycounts because people like me, concealed/carry legally permitted, responsible and law abiding gun owners would terminate the scumbags of this topic. Everywhere you look, Philadelphia, DC, Australia, where ever gun ownership has been restricted, crime has actually gone up. We can thank our liberal friends for this, that even though they may have the best of intentions, the actual result of the legislation they introduce results in the exact opposite of the benefits they claim to expect to receive.
Case in point: If you lived within 25 miles of a high crime neighborhood,(who doesn't anymore?) would you put a sign on your front door, or front yard, declaring your residence as a "Gun Free Zone"?
Yeh, I didn't think so. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall Posted: 12/17/2007 9:00:29 AM | Once again, we have a 19 year old killing 8 people ... and the fact that the mentally unstable young man used a gun becomes the issue. Would y'all feel better if he jacked an 18-wheeler and crashed it through the doors at the mall entrance?? Would you feel better if he knifed or axed the victims individually as they went into the washroom at the mall??
The fact that a young man decided he was going to take out innocent victims and kill himself ... to be famous ... is the issue here.
But, I suppose it is much easier to blame a method, rather than blame the killers themselves ... or the problems in society that may contribute to the leading up to the killings. (hmm - maybe ignorance of and denial of the CAUSES is actually part of the big problem?) | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall Posted: 12/17/2007 9:57:25 AM |
If concealed/carry was permitted at Columbine, Virginia Tech, or various malls throughout the US, we'd have a lot less shootings happening. The ones that might still happen wouldn't have near the bodycounts because people like me, concealed/carry legally permitted, responsible and law abiding gun owners would terminate the scumbags of this topic.
While I agree that gun control laws will never eliminate such shootings, they may reduce them.
The LAST thing I would want is twenty people with concealed handguns all opening up in a crowded shopping mall. Those people almost all lack the necessary tactical training needed to respond properly in such a crowded situation, not to mention that even a good target shooter seldom has a target that fires back and moves, and the fact that most handguns are generally unreliable past a certain range for hitting a target.
Past about 75 feet, without match grade ammo, and under the sudden physical and mental stress of a shooting rampage against someone with an automatic or semi-automatic weapon - almost any armed civilian would either create more damage - or wind up one of the victims.
That's why even regular police officers have a rather high number of misses. 
New York City police statistics show that simply hitting a target, let alone hitting it in a specific spot, is a difficult challenge. In 2006, in cases where police officers intentionally fired a gun at a person, they discharged 364 bullets and hit their target 103 times, for a hit rate of 28.3 percent, according to the department’s Firearms Discharge Report. The police shot and killed 13 people last year.
In 2005, officers fired 472 times in the same circumstances, hitting their mark 82 times, for a 17.4 percent hit rate. They shot and killed nine people that year.
In all shootings — including those against people, animals and in suicides and other situations — New York City officers achieved a 34 percent accuracy rate (182 out of 540), and a 43 percent accuracy rate when the target ranged from zero to six feet away. Nearly half the shots they fired last year were within that distance.
In Los Angeles, where there are far fewer shots discharged, the police fired 67 times in 2006 and had 27 hits, a 40 percent hit rate, which, while better than New York’s, still shows that they miss targets more often they hit them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/ weekinreview/09baker.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Those are people that do regular time at firing ranges, and have fairly high quality weapons.
If they can miss more than they hit , any normal civilian is going to be a lot more dangerous in that situation (which all those officers were not facing) .
Fantasizing about being Charles Bronson or Clint Eastwood must be nice, it's just not very realistic or effective. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall Posted: 12/17/2007 10:12:20 AM | crazy shite like guns in the hands of unstable people who like malls will boost internet shopping.
The fact that a young man decided he was going to take out innocent victims and kill himself ... to be famous ... is the issue here.
to allow such fame for the shooter must also be taken into consideration... our need to create celebrities and the offshoot of celebrity culture needs to understood.
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall Posted: 12/17/2007 2:25:29 PM |
Those are people that do regular time at firing ranges, and have fairly high quality weapons. If they can miss more than they hit , any normal civilian is going to be a lot more dangerous in that situation (which all those officers were not facing) . Fantasizing about being Charles Bronson or Clint Eastwood must be nice, it's just not very realistic or effective.
I'd be willing to bet that your average CCW holder goes to the range at least as much if not more than your average cop. Thing is, in every situation where an armed citizen has been around a rampage shooter, they've stopped the situation without hitting anyone else.
And here's some evidence of cops having exibiting EXCELLENT firearms training: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0 ;) | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall Posted: 1/22/2008 5:22:24 PM | As someone who lives close by, and was following it closely.
The Westroads mall is a Gun Free zone, now untill Neb.got Concealed Carry allowed ther were very few signs that said Gun Free Zone. Now if Westroads Mall allowed Concealed Carry perhaps a citizen could have Taken him out before The little shit took out so many innocents.
Gun control IS being able to Hit your target.
Now , Excuse me while I put on My asbestos suit.  | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall Posted: 1/22/2008 9:58:39 PM |
I'd be willing to bet that your average CCW holder goes to the range at least as much if not more than your average cop. Thing is, in every situation where an armed citizen has been around a rampage shooter, they've stopped the situation without hitting anyone else.
I hear shooting when somebody is shooting back is 100% like the target range. | |
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| 19 Year Old Kills 8 Shoppers in Mall Posted: 1/23/2008 6:55:23 AM | some 1999 NY police shootings That caught my attention.... These are people that have to be able to shoot straight....ONE SHOT KILLS>>>SURE
The Morris County NY Prosecutor today ordered a grand jury investigation into the actions of four police officers who fired 27 bullets at a stopped car on Interstate 80 early Wednesday, killing an unarmed man who had led them on a high-speed chase.
Jury Awards $5.7 Million In Police Killing Of a Hostage
A Manhattan jury awarded $5.7 million yesterday to the family of a woman killed by police officers who fired 29 shots at an armed bank robber who used her as a human shield during a 1993 Upper West Side gun battle. The jury ruled that the six officer ...
Safir Defends Police Shooting of Bank Suspect
Police Commissioner Howard Safir yesterday defended the six police officers who fired 36 shots and killed a suspected bank robber on Monday during a lunchtime chase through the crowded streets of the Financial District. ''I think that the police offi ...
No Indictment For 4 Officers Who Killed Fleeing Driver
A Morris County grand jury declined yesterday to indict four police officers who fired 25 shots into a car last June and killed an unarmed man after a chase on Interstate 80 in New Jersey. The grand jury was convened in Morristown by the Morris Count ...
I think everyone would be safer if we all carried guns with lots of extra clips or I prefer a STREET SWEEPER(not just for movies), With exploding slugs......I have not been able to hunt rabbits with it for some time.... | |
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