| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/8/2008 2:30:11 PM | I don't believe we should have the right to believe what ever we want.
Well if that aint one great oxymoron - How ya gonna police that baby????
I think its high time we took our power back
Who the hell is we??
I think its high time to think before you write.
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/8/2008 2:48:10 PM | OH i'm sorry nevercanezzer,
I didn't know i needed to write up to your standard. If you didn't understand then that's your problem. I think there are a lot of people who believe that religion should be abolished. Do a google and you will find enough to satisfy your mind as to who 'we' is. I'm afraid i didn't catch everyone's name that i've talked to about the issue.
If you don't understand do a little research and you might find our why its so important a subject and how important this ruling is. I think very well thanks just don't need you to understand thanks for your interest though | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/8/2008 10:48:02 PM | Completely unnecessary.
Though I am glad to see that there are some governments who recognize Scientology as the money-grubbing cult of liars and thieves it really is, I inwardly abhor the idea of banning it. I would say a better solution would be to publish as much of its 'tenets' as possible, including the price of various ceremonies, blueprints of an "E-meter" and schematics for how it works, etc. Tell everyone about it, and let people judge for themselves. | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/15/2008 11:37:23 PM | Before $cientology pulls this link as they have been from all over the web, watch Tom "w00p w00p" Cruise lay it all out for you... $cientology are "authorities" on EVR-Y-thing...criminal rehab, drug rehab, world peace, saving people from car accidents(????)... 9:35 mins in length, well worth it.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x42b85_tom-cruise-explains-scientologist-t_politics
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/16/2008 5:49:33 AM | | I don't know much about the Church of Scientology. How is that they abuse human rights? They seem to have many happy followers. I can't really say much about them, but they seem to have taken many ideas from Eastern religions... Can anyone give me any insight into them? | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/16/2008 6:14:03 PM | | I did read through the thread, and there was some interesting information, but nothing really in depth about their beliefs. I will definitely google them and trying to figure what they're about. There seems to be many Scientologists out there in the world. They seem to be spreading. Any idea how many of them are out there? I tried to L. Ron Hubbard's book "Dianetics", but it just didn't interest me. | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/17/2008 12:04:08 AM | Amen to that!! First of all, Scientology is not techinquely nor doctrinally a "church". It is more of a cult that is based on a mix of science, psychology, new age thought etc.
I think in my opinion, he is doing the right thing, and he appears to want the best for his nation. I think it will only make things better, and it will be a better society as a result. | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/17/2008 6:24:29 AM | scientologists are retarded and fail at being human.
it's a damned sci-fi novel ffs.
ban it. destroy it. retards like scientologists don't deserve anything until they actually grow a brain and realize:
1. the dude was a SCI FI NOVELIST LOLZ
2. XENU is a CHARACTER.
3. your fantasy religion is killing their followers (litterally)
stupid cultists. >_< | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/17/2008 12:55:31 PM | | Sadly, $cientology got the above videolink pulled by today...hopfully some of you got to see it before they did. Perhaps a foreign site will fearlessly host it and we will have another opportunity to see Tom Cruise off his nut... | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/17/2008 2:53:53 PM |
Sadly, $cientology got the above videolink pulled by today...hopfully some of you got to see it before they did. Perhaps a foreign site will fearlessly host it and we will have another opportunity to see Tom Cruise off his nut...
Anyone still interested can see the video here at Defamer:
http://www.defamer.com.au/2008/01/the_tom_cruise_indoctrination_video_scientologists_dont_want_you_to_see-2.html | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/17/2008 3:10:29 PM | Thanks SPO!!
I watched that with an open mind, i thought "Right have a proper look with no preconceived ideas..
When he was talking about the Scientology and its stance on Gays etc i though actually this sounds ok so far... Until he started going "I know, I know and I cant not do anything with what I know"... it lost me..
The man is a bit of a loon i fear! He is probably the most famous member of Scientology and he is a complete loon! | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/17/2008 4:21:33 PM | HAhAHAHAHAHAhaha...I'm afraid that's the first reaction that comes to mind after watching that video...
Oh my God it's hilarious...
"I just know, you know? Like you're onboard, or you're not, and scientology's about getting all the spectators onto the playing field, and if you're not, you're gone..."
Those other sites were a little more sobering though, I've got to admit. The actual homesite is for all intents and purposes quite benign, and unthreatening, that interview with his son though, now that's pretty drastic. I don't know how much credence to put in an interview from penthouse magazine, but if half of what he said was true...
Seems to me like the equivalent of cerebral suicide...A human right it may be to believe what you wish, but surely, if something's insidiously causing harm to society, it's got to be at the very least, strictly monitored and controlled. | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/17/2008 9:12:09 PM | dude, the best way to view scientology is:
scientology =/= manson murders.
simply because L ron and charles were ****in genius' who started a belief and had people follow it wholeheartedly. but the people who fell into the the trap are goddamn retarded hahaha. | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/18/2008 8:33:50 AM | Religious freedom is crucial to basic human rightsw.
Fanatics who terrorize others for different religious beliefs also violate the rights of other people.
People should be able to believe what they want, or even be a mix of a couple of different religions. I have a friend who is Buddhist who also adheres to Judaism. I am a Catholic/Episcopal mutt myself. Religion is a very personal matter, and as long as you don't make it others' business by terrorizing or hassling people who don't share your beliefs whatever you believe is your business.
I also feel that such a law would open the door to other laws that violate people's right to privacy. | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/18/2008 10:36:06 AM | | Sure sounds like the german officials are back to their old tricks. For one why ban it just because some science fiction writer had a some what great idea for a book, which turned religious, just like the bible. I'm not a scientologist, I'm just a human like the rest of you. At the moment my understanding of scientology is to understand why individuals freak at the mention or sight of key images, situations or words. The mind has this weird ability to snap under certain pressure or terrors and cover over these diliemas. My understanding was the original teachings of scientology attemped to get to the root of the individuals problems or quirps. It appears that the G. Officials know that there is more good in this born again religion and it gives the person their own mind back insteads of being led into a national type bondage. Sure the possible abuse is and can led to control tactics and brainwashing, no differant then endorsed murder by government leaders and corporations. Now don't get me wrong with all the tiarants out there moderators are still needed just like on POF. Remember religion is a belief and there are many of them. I do believe though if churches don't pay taxes people shouldn't either. As we all are our own church of belief and as I thought it wasn't against the way of the land to jump up and down on a couch with joy, cause you found a great gal. I may be differant; but, thats my couchly opinion. | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/18/2008 11:42:18 AM | I cannot believe that anyone would see a problem with a government stepping in to protect its people from a cult who brainwashes people and exploits them. What about peoples rights to freedom of thought? not to be brainwashed? In my opinion you have it wrong and it is all religions that need to be banned so people would be free to find god on their own. You don't see the New age movement exploiting people to the point where it is some organisation with vast amounts of assets and power to lobby governments and exploit people even further.
Freedom to believe in a religion is not freedom at all. They play upon the memetic weaknesses of all of us to gain our trust and our money. If anything I think the government should implement training for people to understand how their brains work and how people manipulate us. However they would probably have to change the way they use the same programming which would change everything for them to. So as it stands no government will step in because they would loose power as well.
I think the German Government is doing the right thing and hope it will lead to more religions being banned. | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/18/2008 11:53:38 AM | From Wikipedia:
Scientology pays members commissions on new recruits they bring in, encouraging Scientology members to "sell" Scientology to others. In addition, Scientology franchises, or missions, pay the church roughly 10% of their gross income. On that basis, it is often likened to a pyramid selling scheme. Charges for auditing and other Church-related courses run to tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Scientology maintains strict control over the use of its symbols, icons, and names. It claims copyright and trademark over its "Scientology cross", and its lawyers have threatened lawsuits against individuals and organizations who have published the image in books and on Web sites. Because of this, it is very difficult for individual groups to attempt to publicly practice Scientology on their own, without any affiliation or connection to the Church of Scientology. Scientology has sued a number of individuals who attempted to set up their own "auditing" practices, using copyright and trademark law to shut these groups down.
In conjunction with the Church of Scientology's request to be officially recognized as a religion in Germany, around 1996 the German state Baden-Württemberg conducted a thorough investigation regarding the group's activities within Germany. The results of this investigation indicated that, at the time of publication, Scientology's main sources of revenue ("Haupteinnahmequellen der SO") were from course offerings and sales of their various publications. Course offerings—e.g. "The Ups and Downs of Life", "Hubbard's Key to Life", "Intensive Auditing", etc.—ranged from (German Marks) DM 182.50 to about DM 30,000—the equivalent today of approximately $119 to $19,560 US dollars. Revenue from monthly, bi-monthly, and other membership offerings could not be estimated in the report, but was nevertheless placed in the millions. Just sounds like massive exploitation to me. Pyramid selling of religion!! Imagine being convinced that it was a good idea to pay around $19,500 to be instructed in what to believe by someone who is making money out of having you believe a certain thing? Sometimes people do need protecting from exploitation. | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/18/2008 12:43:10 PM | It is a form of a pyramid scam. In my town there are right there on the main strip downtown (prime real estate) with a big blue sign out there offering "free personality test" as the hook.
It's like madonna promoting selling Kaballa water. It has been prayed over.
I'm surprised Germany is not open to it, though, they're open to every other weirdass thing around. Want to get off heroin and not be conscious for the withdrawal? Go to Germany and get comatose! | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 1/20/2008 11:22:45 AM | I actually don't blame the German officials. With their history of Nazism, Germans have a pretty high intolerance for any group which shows evidence of human rights abuses. Scientology definitely qualifies--look at the Lisa MacPherson case and many other cases. I think Scientology, for the most part, is not dangerous to its members; but there are just enough human rights abuses to raise red flags.
If Scientology wants to gain a foothold in Germany, then it's up to the Scn leadership to demonstrate that the handful of documented human rights abuse cases already connected with Scn won't be duplicated in the future. | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 7/23/2008 12:10:09 PM |
Germany could be asked to ban the U.S.-based Church of Scientology under a Hamburg security official's proposal that contends the group violates human rights.
Unfortunately that sets legal precedents for other religions. They should just stick with applying the existing laws, and if they break any prosecute them like everybody else. But to outright ban any religious group ... thats going to far. This is not too dissimilar what Hitler did in the 1930s either gradually affronting various unconventional systems of beliefs.
Though I am glad to see that there are some governments who recognize Scientology as the money-grubbing cult of liars and thieves it really is, I inwardly abhor the idea of banning it. I would say a better solution would be to publish as much of its 'tenets' as possible, including the price of various ceremonies, blueprints of an "E-meter" and schematics for how it works, etc. Tell everyone about it, and let people judge for themselves.
Perfect solution.
One has to differentiate between the greedy and corrupt Scientology organizational power structure from its tenants and beliefs its based on. Maybe one day the existing Scientology organization will have turned to dust, but I am sure its practice will continue on, even underground if made illegal. And then it may re-organize again, but a newer and different legal entity ... and then what?
It still boils down to running after those who break the laws, not to barring any particular groups. They will never be able to get rid of all the books and written materials anyway. | |
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| German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban
Posted: 7/23/2008 2:21:44 PM | I am not certain that we have an inate right to believe just anything that we want to believe. Beliefs that are hazardous or fatally harmful to ourselves or others are discouraged and are often proscribed via legal and other means of social control. Depending on where and in what kind of a society we live in....the lattitude to hold to irrational and idiotic beliefs may be relaxed or may be very restrictive.
Where a belief is perceived to be beneficial or benign....usually believers and promotors of the belief are not interfered with.....where the belief is baneful or perceived to be baneful.....then usually sanctions are imposed. The difficulty arises when deciding, what is beneficial, what is neutral and what is baneful. Where the checks and balances of a democratic pluralistic society are strong, usually the majority of the population's general rights will be protected without unduly compromising any individual's reasonable rights to a quality of life or any group within society to carry on with their lawful business.
Is CoS a religion??? or is it a business enterprise??? Who benefits from the CoS operation and how?? Does it operate legally, or does it operate criminally?? Does it meet its duty of care obligations to its adhernts or does it fail them??? Does it comply with its regulatory obligations...or does it fail them??? Is its conduct ethical or unethical?? These are the questions that it...or any other organisation that claims the status of a religion needs to be able to address. | |
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